Doom Eternal

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DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
12,533
1,480
126
See, that is the opposite of me - i WANT a huge horde of monsters all crammed in one room. I want to have to "feel" when a mancubus is shooting at me from behind and to sense that i need to dodge. That, to me, is doom gameplay.

I watched some speedruns of doom '16 and i had the feeling it was either corridors or medium-small rooms.
Im talking, big-ass huge doom2 rooms where a rocket takes 5 seconds wall to wall - that is doom.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,142
131
106
See, that is the opposite of me - i WANT a huge horde of monsters all crammed in one room. I want to have to "feel" when a mancubus is shooting at me from behind and to sense that i need to dodge. That, to me, is doom gameplay.

I watched some speedruns of doom '16 and i had the feeling it was either corridors or medium-small rooms.
Im talking, big-ass huge doom2 rooms where a rocket takes 5 seconds wall to wall - that is doom.
Distinctions need to be made.

I, too, want a 'huge horde' of monsters crammed in one room.

However, the 'horde mode' I referred to was DOOM 2016's marvelous idea of fun in the form of all entries / exits in a room you just entered magically closing behind and all around you, only to then spawn waves of monsters with an unseen but very scripted and predictable timer between each (with increased difficulty and monster types appearing with each waves). You're going to tell me that the actual human facility we're in acts on its own or on behalf of the hellish invasion and traps you in rooms voluntarily? Sure, it's DOOM, doesn't need to make sense per se. But as a mechanic that load of horse balls had no place in a "DOOM" game. That stuff belongs to other games and the likes of Mass Effect 3 MP. I used to play "horde mode" (Invasion mode) in Unreal Tournament 2004 on custom servers with tons of mods. That stuff was amazing in cooperation with 16+ players in a gigantic room, dealing with waves after waves of monsters.

But that stuff is the bread and butter of Doom 2016. It's essentially interconnected horde mode rooms. Then you eventually get out of the industrial maps and in hell, only to realize that the mechanic is STILL there at that point and keeps on going. It made me quit there, couldn't take it anymore and never touched the game ever again, nor do I ever want to "give it another try". There's absolutely no reasons to play that crap especially when I have my hands on the originals with GZDoom along with Brutal Doom. Now, THAT stuff is Doom gameplay alright. Horde mode rooms that just lock you in by force as a gameplay mechanic is excessively cheap and boring. In the originals and up to Doom 64 and even Doom 3 to some extent I could backtrack, leave a room if I wanted to (whatever the reason may be) during combat and manage my fights better. I don't want some doors and magic walls closing around all around me didcating the flow of the game and the combat. Instead give me good level design and freedom of movement. If you want to give me a challenge don't just spawn 6 monsters with a 5 seconds wait until 7 more spawn, then until 8 more and then 9 more.

Anyway, just wanted to specify what I meant. Wanting a crap ton of monsters crammed in one room is one thing (and happened often enough in the originals; don't worry, I know about and loved it). But in Doom 2016 they're not all there at once. Instead they progressively get peppered on your head a few a time in a locked environment. No thanks.

Just removing that mechanic alone would be a huge step in the right direction for me, for Eternal. But I also hope that Eternal is going to have more than basically just 3 environments to be in and to look at (Doom 2016 has 'interior facility', 'outdoor mars' and 'hell' assets and a few variations and combinations of those here and there; that's about it; it's visually very repetitive and very fast). I'll still keep an eye on it until reviews from normal people come out. And, indeed, bigger... MUCH bigger maps and open ended environments are needed (Doom 2016 is overall a pretty confined game, only some parts of the interiors and outdoors in the Hell levels are more open but aren't that common).
 
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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,008
335
126
As much as you may hate it there was some story to the locked rooms. Base security lockdown until the area was clear. They were doing experiments involving hellspawn and the base had measures to prevent their escape.

I get you though...too scripted.
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
Looks like they are adding other worlds into the mix like Argent D'Nur.
 

CuriousMike

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2001
3,044
542
136
I had a _great_ time in the SP campaign.

The "multiplayer co-op" modes - they're all user generated C-grade crap.

I will likely buy this for the SP campaign and pray they (ID) make a decent Co-op campaign.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
12,533
1,480
126
I dont understand the current hate for user-created content. Years ago it was THE THING and now it's nothing?
Doom made its fortune on .wad files, why can we not have that anymore.

#WEWANTWADSUPPORT
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,887
791
136
WADs? You mean that texture package format from 1994?

I don't mind user-creation but most of it is straight bile.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,232
136
It looks great. I just don't like how the "meat hook" grapple thing pulls you toward any enemy. It should pull the lighter enemies toward you.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,887
791
136
Maybe it can do both? I mean it's Doom... I don't think realistic physics is top priority for the development team.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,232
136
Maybe it can do both? I mean it's Doom... I don't think realistic physics is top priority for the development team.
It would add a fun bit of gameplay depth. I wish it worked like this:

See an enemy that's smaller than the doomslayer? The enemy will get pulled up to you. See a big badass enemy? You'll get pulled up to the enemy.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,887
791
136
I hear you, not sure if it's the final polished product though. They may have just implemented it for effect and to show the added movement mechanics but I have no idea. I do like the little quick dodges though, very useful when there's all sorts of fodder to avoid.
 

CuriousMike

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2001
3,044
542
136
I dont understand the current hate for user-created content.
I'm happy that ID gives the community tools to make their own content.

My experience with the co-op UGC is less than underwhelming. I convinced two friends to buy the game based on the SP goodness, and we spent a few hours trying all the "highly rated" co-op stuff and... it was-not-good.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,181
561
136

Having watched this gameplay video, I want more.. it's amazing to see how far we've come in 25 years.. it's also very disturbing that the original Doom came out 25 years ago..
 

Dranoche

Senior member
Jul 6, 2009
261
47
91
Distinctions need to be made.

I, too, want a 'huge horde' of monsters crammed in one room.

However, the 'horde mode' I referred to was DOOM 2016's marvelous idea of fun in the form of all entries / exits in a room you just entered magically closing behind and all around you, only to then spawn waves of monsters with an unseen but very scripted and predictable timer between each (with increased difficulty and monster types appearing with each waves). You're going to tell me that the actual human facility we're in acts on its own or on behalf of the hellish invasion and traps you in rooms voluntarily? Sure, it's DOOM, doesn't need to make sense per se. But as a mechanic that load of horse balls had no place in a "DOOM" game. That stuff belongs to other games and the likes of Mass Effect 3 MP. I used to play "horde mode" (Invasion mode) in Unreal Tournament 2004 on custom servers with tons of mods. That stuff was amazing in cooperation with 16+ players in a gigantic room, dealing with waves after waves of monsters.

But that stuff is the bread and butter of Doom 2016. It's essentially interconnected horde mode rooms. Then you eventually get out of the industrial maps and in hell, only to realize that the mechanic is STILL there at that point and keeps on going. It made me quit there, couldn't take it anymore and never touched the game ever again, nor do I ever want to "give it another try". There's absolutely no reasons to play that crap especially when I have my hands on the originals with GZDoom along with Brutal Doom. Now, THAT stuff is Doom gameplay alright. Horde mode rooms that just lock you in by force as a gameplay mechanic is excessively cheap and boring. In the originals and up to Doom 64 and even Doom 3 to some extent I could backtrack, leave a room if I wanted to (whatever the reason may be) during combat and manage my fights better. I don't want some doors and magic walls closing around all around me didcating the flow of the game and the combat. Instead give me good level design and freedom of movement. If you want to give me a challenge don't just spawn 6 monsters with a 5 seconds wait until 7 more spawn, then until 8 more and then 9 more.

Anyway, just wanted to specify what I meant. Wanting a crap ton of monsters crammed in one room is one thing (and happened often enough in the originals; don't worry, I know about and loved it). But in Doom 2016 they're not all there at once. Instead they progressively get peppered on your head a few a time in a locked environment. No thanks.

Just removing that mechanic alone would be a huge step in the right direction for me, for Eternal. But I also hope that Eternal is going to have more than basically just 3 environments to be in and to look at (Doom 2016 has 'interior facility', 'outdoor mars' and 'hell' assets and a few variations and combinations of those here and there; that's about it; it's visually very repetitive and very fast). I'll still keep an eye on it until reviews from normal people come out. And, indeed, bigger... MUCH bigger maps and open ended environments are needed (Doom 2016 is overall a pretty confined game, only some parts of the interiors and outdoors in the Hell levels are more open but aren't that common).
I felt that there was were just as many semi-open and unrestricted interconnected areas, and fights in open-ended corridors as there were rooms that locked you in. When you did get locked in, the rooms were typically arena-like and often had good verticality, and it kept you from fighting from a corner or through a doorway. It forces you to keep moving forward and navigating through the room and numerous spawns, instead of just backpedaling into the previous room to create a bottleneck for relatively dumb enemies. I agree that it was the same overall setup throughout. Some wide open areas would have been cool, along with a little more setting variety by the end, but the overall design of many of the levels with multiple paths and interconnections, and the designs of most of the arenas were pretty good. I would consider the platforming aspects in many of the arenas and in general level traversal to be good freedom of movement, probably some of the best in any recent shooter. The new mobility of the enemies should keep fairly constant pressure on you, and that combined with the gunplay I think defines Doom more than anything else.

If the waves were spaced out too much for you, maybe bump up the difficulty? Did you try nightmare? I thought it was a pretty good challenge after having adapted pretty well in my first playthrough on the setting one notch below. It was a steady progression - it gets harder, I get better.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,887
791
136
Played a little bit of this before work today and so far so good. I like all the little 90's throw backs and customization options.

Don't come for the story, but stay for the ripping and tearing
 

Igo69

Senior member
Apr 26, 2015
628
74
91
i am boycotting this because I have to sign up for Bethesda account in order to purchase and play it. WTF! :mad:

and Deluxe Edition is $90 :mad:
 
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Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
10,686
722
126
Just installed it, updated drivers, and played it for about an hour.

1. It runs gorgeously on my aging rig (i7-3770, 8gig ram, ssd, 1060 6gb). Their own minimum spec listed my GPU to run at low settings at 60fps 1080p. But it's running goegeously at most settings maxed at 1080p gaming. Its running solid at 60fps. I suspect it may lag on larger areas.

2. I actually wasnt too crazy about Doom 2016. Original doom was packed with action - NONSTOP killing and satisfying blood sponge enemies getting rekt with the super shotgun. I'm only an hour in and the Eternal feels immensely different. It's crawling with enemies vs 2016 version. 2016 one had too much exploring and getting lost. Very happy to see it's all about action right off the bat (so far).

I can't believe its running so well on the several gens old i7 i got for $90 used... and 1060 6gb.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,887
791
136
This one has a much more arcade-y feel than the 2016 game, but I enjoyed that one also. Hopefully the added puzzle and platforming elements aren't a turn off because the action is quite good.

And yea, game is also quite lightweight in terms of system requirements, which makes it really easy to recommend.
 
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Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
10,686
722
126
This one has a much more arcade-y feel than the 2016 game, but I enjoyed that one also. Hopefully the added puzzle and platforming elements aren't a turn off because the action is quite good.

And yea, game is also quite lightweight in terms of system requirements, which makes it really easy to recommend.
I saw in the preview that it has a quick dash and we already have a double jump.

A clip showed the doom guy doing the jump and dash and jump and dash to reach a super far away secret. Like a freakin super mario 64.

I hope this kinda crap is minimal. It was super annoying in doom 2016.
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
10,686
722
126
Distinctions need to be made.

I, too, want a 'huge horde' of monsters crammed in one room.

Just removing that mechanic alone would be a huge step in the right direction for me, for Eternal. But I also hope that Eternal is going to have more than basically just 3 environments to be in and to look at (Doom 2016 has 'interior facility', 'outdoor mars' and 'hell' assets and a few variations and combinations of those here and there; that's about it; it's visually very repetitive and very fast). I'll still keep an eye on it until reviews from normal people come out. And, indeed, bigger... MUCH bigger maps and open ended environments are needed (Doom 2016 is overall a pretty confined game, only some parts of the interiors and outdoors in the Hell levels are more open but aren't that common).
I'm a HUGE Doom II fan. I know what you're referring to - THIS:

Look at this marvelous gameplay!!

Enemies aren't super deadly. It's a continuous gauntlet of killing killing killing.

I'm about 3 hours into Eternal now. It is more arcadey but enemies are way too quick. I'm starting to have some fun with dashing non stop, chainsawing for ammo, glory kill for health, and flame mount for armor. But I don't think I LOVE it.

Actually watching that clip above makes me want to play Doom II now.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,887
791
136
The enemies are quick but if you use guerilla style hit and run techniques their speed doesn't count for much. I'm typically engaging toward the center of an area, getting in some good hits where I can, and then running around the perimeter of the area and mopping up the smaller guys for ammo and health--and then diving back into the center again. It doesn't work perfectly every time, but the maps allow for some good flowing engagements and you can kind of plan a route to and from opposite sides of each area.

Also, make use of the "arenas" to cancel out ranged attacks and dodge left and right to avoid homing attacks.
 

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