Doom 3 piracy

[chsh1ca]

Originally posted by: Sunner
I must say, one group of people who are incredibly annoying are the Holier Than Thou crowd who blasts people left and right with the "Yeah yeah, but it's still piracy!" argument.

There's a big difference between being holier than thou and stating there's very little legitimate reason to do something. Accept you are a leech on society and get on with your life.

If people like that have ever walked a red light or driven a single km/h too fast they should just STFU.

The latter may not actually be illegal -- most areas I know of have laws that permit exceeding the posted limit provided it goes with the flow of traffic.

At any rate, there is a spectrum shift difference between outright stealing someone's hard work and jaywalking or speeding. They're all wrong, but on a different scale.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Smilin
If you are pirating Doom 3 you are a dick. Period. Save your excuses why for someone who gives a crap.

Lots of excuses here. Spare me. I paid my preorder money, I waited, I didn't die from anticipation. It's BS. If you picked up a pirated copy (even later paying) it's still pirating. You just encourage the practice and the zero-day mentality. Go be a brick and mortar thief or don't you have the balls?

 

[Pocatello]

Still waiting for my Doom III from overstock.com. No shipping confirmation yet. I don't think they even have the game in stock.

 

[DGath]

Bottom line, if the game (movie, album, etc..) is good, any normal, decent person will buy the product in the end whether they bought it, or pirated it to begin with. You all are arguing morals and ethics about people who are lacking in that dept. The end result, intentions of the person are what matters in the grand scheme of things to the company. Id would prefer you not download the game, but if they get money from you in the end, it's all the same to them. They might publicly state differently simply because they have to, but they aren't going to sue you for downloading a game if you ended up buying it.

With the internet being the best distribution medium out there for information, everything is in essence free if you can find it, and you pay for what you want to support. I'm not giving my money to Id for a copy of the game (everyone can get that for free), I'm giving it to them to support them and say "Thanks, I like the game, now make more." If you think that is wrong, join the rest of the CEOs out there who agree with you, but that is just the way things are now days like it or not. I agree that it's a crappy deal, but it is also progress. I pirated my copy of XP becuase I don't want to give a cent to Microsoft, I wish they'd die tommorow. I use windows because I have to, not because I want to. If every program had a windows and linux version, you'd see me ditch windows in a second.

I've downloaded a lot of crap in my days, and all the good stuff, I've paid for in the end. If you think that's wrong, I don't care. There are no absolutes in moral debates.

 

[DGath]

Originally posted by: Pocatello
Still waiting for my Doom III from overstock.com. No shipping confirmation yet. I don't think they even have the game in stock.

That's ironic. 😛

 

[Pocatello]

Originally posted by: DGath

Originally posted by: Pocatello
Still waiting for my Doom III from overstock.com. No shipping confirmation yet. I don't think they even have the game in stock.

That's ironic. 😛

Indeed, understock.com haven't answer my email yet about the availability of the game.

 

[L1FE]

It's interesting when people mention how piracy is evil when if you've actually paid for the game, making copies of the original is still part of your legal right of purchasing that game...

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: chsh1ca

Originally posted by: Sunner
I must say, one group of people who are incredibly annoying are the Holier Than Thou crowd who blasts people left and right with the "Yeah yeah, but it's still piracy!" argument.

There's a big difference between being holier than thou and stating there's very little legitimate reason to do something. Accept you are a leech on society and get on with your life.

If people like that have ever walked a red light or driven a single km/h too fast they should just STFU.

The latter may not actually be illegal -- most areas I know of have laws that permit exceeding the posted limit provided it goes with the flow of traffic.

At any rate, there is a spectrum shift difference between outright stealing someone's hard work and jaywalking or speeding. They're all wrong, but on a different scale.

So, you belong to the Holier than Thou group, only you try to justify it by making a difference between your own sins and those of the people you complain about...gee, where have a seen that before.

So, tell me, did you ever cross a redlight? Did you ever download a single mp3? Drive too fast? Etc etc?

---

Sunner,

After three consecutive posts flaming those who post to oppose warez piracy on priniciple, I am beginning to question your Elite status. Piracy is illegal, and it is wrong. One person's illegal act does not justify an illegal act by anyone else.

AnandTech Moderator

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Smilin

Lots of excuses here. Spare me. I paid my preorder money, I waited, I didn't die from anticipation. It's BS. If you picked up a pirated copy (even later paying) it's still pirating. You just encourage the practice and the zero-day mentality. Go be a brick and mortar thief or don't you have the balls?

Let's see:

Scenario 1:
Me: "Hey Fred, played Doom III yet?"
Fred: "No, cK, I haven't. I'm not sure if my PC will run the game well enough for my tastes, or if the game is even worth the $50. So I'm not gonna bother."
Me: "Here, I made a copy of the game. Try it out!"
<next day>
Fred: "Hey, cK. Here are your CDs back. I installed D3 and it was totally sweet. I stayed up all night playing!"
Me: "Cool. Think it's worth $50 now?"
Fred: "Heck yes. I'm gonna pick up my copy today!"

Scenario 2:
Me: "Hey Fred, played Doom II yet?"
Fred: "No, cK, I haven't. I'm not sure if my PC will run the game well enough for my tastes, or if the game is even worth the $50. So I'm not gonna bother."
Me: "Really? Hang on a second."

<cK runs into the nearest Best Buy, stuffs a copy of D3 under his shirt and runs out>

Me: "Here Fred, now you have your very own copy."
Fred: "Uh, thanks"

Yes, I can see how both of these scenarios are exactly the same. :roll:

It's a contrived example, to be sure. But let's face it - we know that they are both illegal, but that doesn't make them equivalent. You might as easily have said, "Driving 2 mph over the speed limit is wrong. Go on a drunked vehicular homicide run, or don't you have the balls?"

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: L1FE
It's interesting when people mention how piracy is evil when if you've actually paid for the game, making copies of the original is still part of your legal right of purchasing that game...

Technically yes, realistically no (thank you DMCA). If it has no copy protection you are fine. But circumventing copy protection violates the DMCA, and so far the Courts have ruled in favor of the DMCA thus against consumer freindly precedents<sp?> But Pre-DMCA you were allowed to make *one copy* (not multiple copies) as a personal back-up.


Lethal

EDIT: fixed some spelling...

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: SickBeast
They should start lying about the release dates and release the games a week or two before the fake launch. That way they would beat the warez guys and the games would be on store shelves before you could download it.

I realize that two wrongs don't make a right, but I'm sure tons of people are downloading Doom3 because they couldn't wait a few more days to buy it.

Warez has been around since the dawn of computer software and it continues today. They obviously need a new strategy to counterattack it. Lower software prices and stiffer penalties would probably do the trick. It would all work out in the wash though; more people would buy the software, but they would pay less for it.

I don't think the increase in numbers would be enough. The people that are downloading a copy today aren't doing it because they're too cheap to buy a copy, they do it because they can.

Not true. Case in point ESPN 2K5 football for XBOX/PS2
I know COUNTLESS people that download COUNTLESS programs and game for their PCs and consoles. So hits ESPN 2K5 for $19.99. ANd probably 50% of those people who were even remotely interested in the title bought it in lieu if an easy downlod from NGs, BT, FTPs whatever. Lower price and simply amoungst my group of buddies they over dobuled their sales.

Win win.

The problem here is that that is not a profitable price point for the product. NFL2k5 @ $19.99 is an aggresive marketing move to expand the fan base for a game series that releases an updated title every year. Repeat buyers are a must to keep it alive. I would be surprised if the game is making a profit this year. If significantly more people get hooked and purcahse 2k6 @ $49.99 then the short term loss will be out weighed by long term gains. But if significantly more people don't by 2k6... D'oh.

Losing money by selling your product at unprofitable price points is not a viable way to combat losing money to piracy. 😉


Lethal

 

[L1FE]

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

Originally posted by: L1FE
It's interesting when people mention how piracy is evil when if you've actually paid for the game, making copies of the original is still part of your legal right of purchasing that game...

Technically yes, realistically no (thank you DMCA). If it has no copy protection you are fine. But circumventing violates the DMCA, and so far the Courts have ruled in favor of the DMCA thus against consumer freindly presidents<sp?> But Pre-DMCA you were allowed to make *one copy* (not multiple copies) as a personal back-up.


Lethal

Yes, I didn't mention the circumventing copy protection deal, but then, that and many things are still being debated for legality and user rights. I'm not saying piracy is good, but you downloading a copy does not equate to you sending it to a billion other people (even if it's bittorrent). There will always be some gray area in these matters especially when you have people who have paid money for it already. I for one already have my legal copy and am enjoying it 😛

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Smilin

Lots of excuses here. Spare me. I paid my preorder money, I waited, I didn't die from anticipation. It's BS. If you picked up a pirated copy (even later paying) it's still pirating. You just encourage the practice and the zero-day mentality. Go be a brick and mortar thief or don't you have the balls?

Let's see:

Scenario 1:
Me: "Hey Fred, played Doom III yet?"
Fred: "No, cK, I haven't. I'm not sure if my PC will run the game well enough for my tastes, or if the game is even worth the $50. So I'm not gonna bother."
Me: "Here, I made a copy of the game. Try it out!"
<next day>
Fred: "Hey, cK. Here are your CDs back. I installed D3 and it was totally sweet. I stayed up all night playing!"
Me: "Cool. Think it's worth $50 now?"
Fred: "Heck yes. I'm gonna pick up my copy today!"

Scenario 2:
Me: "Hey Fred, played Doom II yet?"
Fred: "No, cK, I haven't. I'm not sure if my PC will run the game well enough for my tastes, or if the game is even worth the $50. So I'm not gonna bother."
Me: "Really? Hang on a second."

<cK runs into the nearest Best Buy, stuffs a copy of D3 under his shirt and runs out>

Me: "Here Fred, now you have your very own copy."
Fred: "Uh, thanks"

Yes, I can see how both of these scenarios are exactly the same. :roll:

It's a contrived example, to be sure. But let's face it - we know that they are both illegal, but that doesn't make them equivalent. You might as easily have said, "Driving 2 mph over the speed limit is wrong. Go on a drunked vehicular homicide run, or don't you have the balls?"

Your post illustrates the EXACT thing I tried to convey - yes the ARE the same thing. Stealing is stealing. The problem is that people think they are somehow different. Your drunk driving illustration does nothing. One is a misdemeanor, one is a felony.

How about:
Fred: "Don't know if it will run, don't know if I'll like it, don't know if it's worth $50"
Me: STFU Fred, you are a goat ball licker. Buy a copy, wait for the demo or just shut your pie hole because I paid my money and I would like to get back to playing if you don't mind. I'll call you a wambulance when I get to a good save point. B1tch.

 

[n0cmonkey]

How could someone not know if it will run ok? There have been a billion threads, and almost as many articles about it.

 

[Smilin]

One more quick thought:

Don't confuse my strong feelings on this topic with any "holier than thou" attitude. I may not pirate but I'm certainly no saint. If you pirate, feel like a dick but can live with it, fine...as long as you know you're being a dick. If you don't think you're a dick for pirating then you are probably a worse one than you could possibly imagine.

🙂


You guys take care, I'll not be in this thread again for sometime. I'll be hell-spelunking at night and sleeping in the day.

 

[Grimbones]

Trust me, they'll get their money back, also, more people would be tempted to buy a game if it were selling for more like 35 Dollars, because then they can play online!

You just gotta balance it out like that in your mind if you're a developer. Sure it cost a lot to make, so you can jack up the price, or you could lower it, and get some more people buying it. God knows enough people boughth WC3, and TFT, and those games were fun too ! 🙂

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Grimbones
Trust me, they'll get their money back, also, more people would be tempted to buy a game if it were selling for more like 35 Dollars, because then they can play online!

You just gotta balance it out like that in your mind if you're a developer. Sure it cost a lot to make, so you can jack up the price, or you could lower it, and get some more people buying it. God knows enough people boughth WC3, and TFT, and those games were fun too ! 🙂

Do you have a link to professional studies?

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Smilin

Your post illustrates the EXACT thing I tried to convey - yes the ARE the same thing. Stealing is stealing. The problem is that people think they are somehow different. Your drunk driving illustration does nothing. One is a misdemeanor, one is a felony.

How about:
Fred: "Don't know if it will run, don't know if I'll like it, don't know if it's worth $50"
Me: STFU Fred, you are a goat ball licker. Buy a copy, wait for the demo or just shut your pie hole because I paid my money and I would like to get back to playing if you don't mind. I'll call you a wambulance when I get to a good save point. B1tch.

And your post illustrates the EXACT same thing I pointed out. No one can be charged with THEFT for downloading warez, mp3s, movie etc. IT IS NOT THEFT. It is "piracy" or copyright infringement. It is ILLEGAL, yes, BUT IT IS NOT THEFT! I fail to understand how people cannot understand this. If they were the same thing, we would not have totally different laws for dealing with them. You don't have to condone pirating, just fvcking admit that you are wrong about the two being the same! :|

And also, to show that you are misinformed on other things as well, a DUI/DWI is a misdemeanor as well - until you reach like the 3rd or 4th offense.

Wow - looks like you *don't* know everything, despite your attitude. Try acting civil sometime. Jeez.. :roll:

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
How could someone not know if it will run ok? There have been a billion threads, and almost as many articles about it.

I can answer this thusly: Numbers like FPS mean almost nothing to "how well the game runs." I have played some games that run ~60FPS but feel chppy as hell. As for D3, if someone told me it ran at 28 FPS on my rig, I wouldn't even bother with the game. But that 28 FPS looks smooth as silk on my rig. I don't know enough about 3D coding to know why this is, but there is something to it.

Now, this is not a reason to pirate the game, but rather pointing out that performance is very subjective..

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Smilin
One more quick thought:

Don't confuse my strong feelings on this topic with any "holier than thou" attitude. I may not pirate but I'm certainly no saint. If you pirate, feel like a dick but can live with it, fine...as long as you know you're being a dick. If you don't think you're a dick for pirating then you are probably a worse one than you could possibly imagine.

You guys take care, I'll not be in this thread again for sometime. I'll be hell-spelunking at night and sleeping in the day.

Cute. "I'm not saying that I'm better than you, but you all suck and I don't. Also, I'm not going to reply anymore, to make sure I get the last word. Mwahaha!"

Brilliant tactics, there. 😉

 

[oldman420]

if you download the warez version of anything you are wrong even if you buy it after cause you support and encorouge ileagle dling of pirated software,dont support a crime by participating and then complaine when others do it thats just wrong

 

[GeneralGrievous]

How could someone not know if it will run ok? There have been a billion threads, and almost as many articles about it.

Because not everybody reads these forums. There are casual gamers out there who just want to play games once in a while, not discuss them.

 

[brigden]

Originally posted by: oldman420
if you download the warez version of anything you are wrong even if you buy it after cause you support and encorouge ileagle dling of pirated software,dont support a crime by participating and then complaine when others do it thats just wrong

It's kind of like breaking into someone's house, stealing money to "borrow" for a few days, and then breaking in again to return it.

 

[HermDogg]

It's kind of like breaking into someone's house, stealing money to "borrow" for a few days, and then breaking in again to return it.

Actually, it's barely anything like that. At the very worst, it would be like stealing money and then returning it. Oh wait, that's called a loan...

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Smilin

Your post illustrates the EXACT thing I tried to convey - yes the ARE the same thing. Stealing is stealing. The problem is that people think they are somehow different. Your drunk driving illustration does nothing. One is a misdemeanor, one is a felony.

How about:
Fred: "Don't know if it will run, don't know if I'll like it, don't know if it's worth $50"
Me: STFU Fred, you are a goat ball licker. Buy a copy, wait for the demo or just shut your pie hole because I paid my money and I would like to get back to playing if you don't mind. I'll call you a wambulance when I get to a good save point. B1tch.

And your post illustrates the EXACT same thing I pointed out. No one can be charged with THEFT for downloading warez, mp3s, movie etc. IT IS NOT THEFT. It is "piracy" or copyright infringement. It is ILLEGAL, yes, BUT IT IS NOT THEFT! I fail to understand how people cannot understand this. If they were the same thing, we would not have totally different laws for dealing with them. You don't have to condone pirating, just fvcking admit that you are wrong about the two being the same! :|

And also, to show that you are misinformed on other things as well, a DUI/DWI is a misdemeanor as well - until you reach like the 3rd or 4th offense.

Wow - looks like you *don't* know everything, despite your attitude. Try acting civil sometime. Jeez.. :roll:

It annoys me when people compare DUI to software piracy. Such sensationalism. DUI can kill someone, piracy can't.

I've gotta say I fully agree with cKGunslinger on this one. Piracy should not be compared to stealing cars or breaking into houses. Nothing physical is being stolen, and the victim of the crime will never know that it even took place.

I am by no means saying that piracy is somehow justified; I just want to point out that alot of you guys take it way too far.