Doom 3 piracy

[L1FE]

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

Originally posted by: Booty
How many of you have ever borrowed a movie to watch from a friend... or borrowed a CD to listen to? Borrowed a console game, beat it, gave it back, and never bought your own copy? Not much different, as I see it.

Yes, because sharing a single physical copy of something between you and your friend is the same is distributing a exact copy to 100's of million's of people all over the world via the internet.


Lethal

Whoever has that kind of bandwidth on a normal house connection let me know! I want it too!! 1.45 gigs for doom x 100s of millions of people = !!!!! 😀

Nice analogy...except not

 

[Homerboy]

let ye who has not sinned cast the first stone.

/me gets lawnchair.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: L1FE

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

Originally posted by: Booty
How many of you have ever borrowed a movie to watch from a friend... or borrowed a CD to listen to? Borrowed a console game, beat it, gave it back, and never bought your own copy? Not much different, as I see it.

Yes, because sharing a single physical copy of something between you and your friend is the same is distributing a exact copy to 100's of million's of people all over the world via the internet.


Lethal

Whoever has that kind of bandwidth on a normal house connection let me know! I want it too!! 1.45 gigs for doom x 100s of millions of people = !!!!! 😀

Nice analogy...except not

Is everyone on a P2P network going to d/l from one user at the same time. Of course not. But one copy put onto a P2P network can quickly spawn hundreds of copies as people who d/l the file keep it in their "share" folder.

Bob puts a copy of a game/movie/program/CD up on his favorite P2P. 10 people download it. Those 10 people keep a copy of it in the shared folder of their favorite P2P proggie. 10 people d/l it from each of those ten. So on and so forth.


It's a far cry from letting the guy next door borrow your physical copy of a game.


Lethal

 

[HermDogg]

It maybe a far cry in the RW, but in theory its the exact same. You're playing a game you didn't pay for.

A mass murderer may be worse, but a murderer still killed somebody.

 

[SickBeast]

They should start lying about the release dates and release the games a week or two before the fake launch. That way they would beat the warez guys and the games would be on store shelves before you could download it.

I realize that two wrongs don't make a right, but I'm sure tons of people are downloading Doom3 because they couldn't wait a few more days to buy it.

Warez has been around since the dawn of computer software and it continues today. They obviously need a new strategy to counterattack it. Lower software prices and stiffer penalties would probably do the trick. It would all work out in the wash though; more people would buy the software, but they would pay less for it.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
They should start lying about the release dates and release the games a week or two before the fake launch. That way they would beat the warez guys and the games would be on store shelves before you could download it.

I realize that two wrongs don't make a right, but I'm sure tons of people are downloading Doom3 because they couldn't wait a few more days to buy it.

Warez has been around since the dawn of computer software and it continues today. They obviously need a new strategy to counterattack it. Lower software prices and stiffer penalties would probably do the trick. It would all work out in the wash though; more people would buy the software, but they would pay less for it.

I don't think the increase in numbers would be enough. The people that are downloading a copy today aren't doing it because they're too cheap to buy a copy, they do it because they can.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: SickBeast
They should start lying about the release dates and release the games a week or two before the fake launch. That way they would beat the warez guys and the games would be on store shelves before you could download it.

I realize that two wrongs don't make a right, but I'm sure tons of people are downloading Doom3 because they couldn't wait a few more days to buy it.

Warez has been around since the dawn of computer software and it continues today. They obviously need a new strategy to counterattack it. Lower software prices and stiffer penalties would probably do the trick. It would all work out in the wash though; more people would buy the software, but they would pay less for it.

I don't think the increase in numbers would be enough. The people that are downloading a copy today aren't doing it because they're too cheap to buy a copy, they do it because they can.

Not true. Case in point ESPN 2K5 football for XBOX/PS2
I know COUNTLESS people that download COUNTLESS programs and game for their PCs and consoles. So hits ESPN 2K5 for $19.99. ANd probably 50% of those people who were even remotely interested in the title bought it in lieu if an easy downlod from NGs, BT, FTPs whatever. Lower price and simply amoungst my group of buddies they over dobuled their sales.

Win win.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: SickBeast
They should start lying about the release dates and release the games a week or two before the fake launch. That way they would beat the warez guys and the games would be on store shelves before you could download it.

I realize that two wrongs don't make a right, but I'm sure tons of people are downloading Doom3 because they couldn't wait a few more days to buy it.

Warez has been around since the dawn of computer software and it continues today. They obviously need a new strategy to counterattack it. Lower software prices and stiffer penalties would probably do the trick. It would all work out in the wash though; more people would buy the software, but they would pay less for it.

I don't think the increase in numbers would be enough. The people that are downloading a copy today aren't doing it because they're too cheap to buy a copy, they do it because they can.

Not true. Case in point ESPN 2K5 football for XBOX/PS2
I know COUNTLESS people that download COUNTLESS programs and game for their PCs and consoles. So hits ESPN 2K5 for $19.99. ANd probably 50% of those people who were even remotely interested in the title bought it in lieu if an easy downlod from NGs, BT, FTPs whatever. Lower price and simply amoungst my group of buddies they over dobuled their sales.

Win win.

Would you guarentee that piracy will stop once prices drop? I bet you can still find people that download games that are sitting on bargain shelves for $5.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

I've heards that music sales were up during the napster era. The problem wasn't the amount of money the RIAA was making, but rather how much they COULD be making. In anycase, 50000 isn't a whole lot compared to the 2-3 million (minimum) people that will buy the game, if there's even that many piraters.

 

[Brule]

I don't (currently) pirate games, but anti-piracy "measures" screw over the legit owners the most. There is another thread where Doom3 won't run because alcohol 120 is installed. Neverwinter Nights is one example of a game that was too pirate-proof to be easily enjoy.(lost cd-keys, cd checks, no recourse) I played it a little bit but have since uninstalled it. I didn't feel like going to several quasi-legal sites with patches to make it enjoyable.

I won't be buying Doom3 (hardware) but respect their right to their property. That said the real question is what they *should* be doing to please their consumers. Warez will exist, their approach to it should take that into account while still trying to maximize profit. I don't think being anal about cd-keys, cd checks, Safedisc, or other crappy schemes to stop piracy is in their best interest.

When I was in college a CD of UT was passed around the entire dorm, I doubt everyone (anyone) had a legal copy. After college guess what game I am playing a legit copy of now? 🙂

 

[Andvari]

Originally posted by: Hardcore
To those that justify themselves by saying they're giving warez a 'test drive' before purchasing it, i say BS. Maybe once in a blue moon you might buy a game you've already downloaded, or you need a key to play online, but it's easier just to say "I finished the game, and it was good, but not good enough for a collection. So i'll just save my money for a videocard purchase." etc etc

If you're going to commit a crime, then commit it. Don't justify all this bullsh1t. Just be honest and say "Yes i download warez. I don't care if i'm stealing, if i'm taking away from the developers."

But that's just it, I'm (we're) NOT stealing from the developers. They're getting my $55 one way or the other. I didn't even download it to test it. I had no doubt in my mind that my system would run it perfectly fine. I simply downloaded it because I couldn't wait for my sucky Gamestop to get it in on the FOURTH. That's right, a day later than the rest of the nation for who knows what reason. So you bet I downloaded it, and you bet I'll be at the store tomorrow having them swipe my debit card.

I have to agree that it's tempting to NOT buy a game you've already beaten, but that's why I'm not leaving myself that option. I've been taking it slow through the game, not even but a little the past couple of days. So I'll still have the majority of the game ahead of me when I buy it.



EDIT: "They're getting my $55 one way or the other." Well, I guess I take that back. If it's the "other way," that means I wouldn't be paying for it heh. You got my point though.

 

[Homerboy]

Would you guarentee that piracy will stop once prices drop? I bet you can still find people that download games that are sitting on bargain shelves for $5.

Where did I say that it would stop?
Piracy will NEVER EVER stop. Stealing is as natural as breathing for humans... piracy is a "sport" to these guys... a game. Really nothing more. You mean to tell me you have NEVER downloaded one single mp3 or made a audio tape of a CD from your friend back in the day.

Piracy is here to stay.. period.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Would you guarentee that piracy will stop once prices drop? I bet you can still find people that download games that are sitting on bargain shelves for $5.

Where did I say that it would stop?
Piracy will NEVER EVER stop. Stealing is as natural as breathing for humans... piracy is a "sport" to these guys... a game. Really nothing more. You mean to tell me you have NEVER downloaded one single mp3 or made a audio tape of a CD from your friend back in the day.

Piracy is here to stay.. period.

I can say with complete confidence that I have never made an audio tape from a friend's cd.

My entire point was that dropping the price does nothing to stop piracy. It won't even drop the numbers.

Take a look at some of the BT sites out there. Notice that there are COMIC BOOKS on some? Yes, those things you can buy for $3-5 each, or $15-20 for 7-15 of them. The price isn't what matters, but some people don't realize that.

 

[chsh1ca]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
If they would release the demo, a lot of people who want to "try it out" wouldn't have to warez the game. They should release demos at or before a game's release.

Nobody ever has to warez the game. Nobody is forcing you to play. It's a simple equation, step up and shell out the cash or you don't get to play. As far as I'm concerned, no person has any legitimate reason for downloading a pirated copy of any game. This includes the crock of (ahem) "I have it on preorder" excuse. If you have it on preorder the wait is not going to do you any harm.

Theft is theft. Attempting to justify it when it relates to a luxury like computer games is taking idiocy to the next level.

 

[pookie69]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Would you guarentee that piracy will stop once prices drop? I bet you can still find people that download games that are sitting on bargain shelves for $5.

Where did I say that it would stop?
Piracy will NEVER EVER stop. Stealing is as natural as breathing for humans... piracy is a "sport" to these guys... a game. Really nothing more. You mean to tell me you have NEVER downloaded one single mp3 or made a audio tape of a CD from your friend back in the day.

Piracy is here to stay.. period.

Yea, this is a very good point that ought to be taken on board when talking about piracy etc.

You're never going to stop it completely - its to be expected in this day and age where media is available on so many different formats that are easily accessible and transferable.

Piracy has been around since forever. I remember as a lil kid taping songs off the radio! 😀

 

[Shagga]

I do NOT condone Piracy whatsoever, however, I would like to see simultaneous releases in the US and UK, as it is truly frustrating knowing all our fellow gamers over the pond have had Doom3 for a couple of days now. We have to wait until 13 August for ours. What I?m trying to say is that a lot of the P2P downloads are due to this delay. Once the game arrives in the UK I guess any ?true? gamer will go out and buy the darn thing.

Me, well mine is pre-ordered (has been for a long long time now), but I have been able to deter myself from trying to get the game from other means, which I have to say is particularly painful? 🙂

Right, must go fishing to forget about game?

 

[pookie69]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey


I can say with complete confidence that I have never made an audio tape from a friend's cd.

My entire point was that dropping the price does nothing to stop piracy. It won't even drop the numbers.

Take a look at some of the BT sites out there. Notice that there are COMIC BOOKS on some? Yes, those things you can buy for $3-5 each, or $15-20 for 7-15 of them. The price isn't what matters, but some people don't realize that.

Hmmm... im unsure about this. In a way, i kinda agree with you. I suppose for some even a 'substantial' drop in price wouldn't be enough to stop them from pirating a game like DOOM3. Like Homerboy said, its a sport for these guys.

Having said that, i for one reckon that given the choice between having the REAL PHYSICAL COPY OF DOOM and a CD IMAGE FILE, most people would opt for the real thing simply because of the attachment people have for material things - the nice shiny manual, cd case and box covers.... ohhh... shiny, shiny. That would be the case of course if both options were 'priced' the same, which of course they're not. As much as people like having THE REAL THING, alotta the time the price difference doesn't justify for many who pirate, getting THE REAL THING

>>> so its a case of bringing this price difference of $55 vs FREE to an acceptable level.

So on that note i think i would have to disagree with you on the point about a drop in game prices not resulting in a drop in pirated games. If the drop was substantial enough, then i think people would tend to opt for getting THE REAL THING 😛. People like their shiny shinies 🙂

And the thing about comic books - yes, a SINGLE comic book is quite cheap. However, as someone who used to be an avid comic book collector, i can tell you now that those lil books all add up, and can really amount to a huge dent in your bank balance by the time you get to the end of just one series! So that in itself can help explain the posting of comic book series on these p2p sites. Although for me personally, most of the fun of comic books is the COLLECTING part - so i would never d/l the things despite the mounting costs.

>>> OF COURSE... you can then argue, and rightly so, if that is the point i am making about comic books, then surely the same applies to games also, as ppl are not just going to buy a single game in their lifetimes, but quite a few, again resulting in all that cost adding up! :Q

>>> so maybe i had no valid point afterall!!! 😱 LOL - oh dear. This is a pickle and a half.

Still - some food for thought. In regards to this pirate issue, i myself have add enough and am feeling quite full and bloated. 🙂

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: pookie69

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey


I can say with complete confidence that I have never made an audio tape from a friend's cd.

My entire point was that dropping the price does nothing to stop piracy. It won't even drop the numbers.

Take a look at some of the BT sites out there. Notice that there are COMIC BOOKS on some? Yes, those things you can buy for $3-5 each, or $15-20 for 7-15 of them. The price isn't what matters, but some people don't realize that.

Hmmm... im unsure about this. In a way, i kinda agree with you. I suppose for some even a 'substantial' drop in price wouldn't be enough to stop them from pirating a game like DOOM3. Like Homerboy said, its a sport for these guys.

Having said that, i for one reckon that given the choice between having the REAL PHYSICAL COPY OF DOOM and a CD IMAGE FILE, most people would opt for the real thing simply because of the attachment people have for material things - the nice shiny manual, cd case and box covers.... ohhh... shiny, shiny. That would be the case of course if both options were 'priced' the same, which of course they're not. As much as people like having THE REAL THING, alotta the time the price difference doesn't justify for many who pirate, getting THE REAL THING

>>> so its a case of bringing this price difference of $55 vs FREE to an acceptable level.

So on that note i think i would have to disagree with you on the point about a drop in game prices not resulting in a drop in pirated games. If the drop was substantial enough, then i think people would tend to opt for getting THE REAL THING 😛. People like their shiny shinies 🙂

I really doubt it would drop all that much. I don't think sales would increase enough to make up the difference either, and that's where the real problem is. They can try spending less when making the games, but how fun would that be?

And the thing about comic books - yes, a SINGLE comic book is quite cheap. However, as someone who used to be an avid comic book collector, i can tell you now that those lil books all add up, and can really amount to a huge dent in your bank balance by the time you get to the end of just one series! So that in itself can help explain the posting of comic book series on these p2p sites. Although me me persoally, most of the fun of comic books is the COLLECTING part - so i would never d/l the things despite the mounting costs.

I spent over $100 last WEEK on comics, I know how expensive it can be. And I don't spend a lot compared to others I know. 😉

My point is, that some people are going to use any excuse they can to get something for free instead of respecting the creators and paying for it.

Oh well. This might be the first game I'll buy in a long time. It's been a couple years I think. (I don't really game. 😉)

 

[Sunner]

I must say, one group of people who are incredibly annoying are the Holier Than Thou crowd who blasts people left and right with the "Yeah yeah, but it's still piracy!" argument.
The lack of them in this thread is impressive.

If people like that have ever walked a red light or driven a single km/h too fast they should just STFU.

 

[OMG1Penguin]

Originally posted by: Smilin
If you are pirating Doom 3 you are a dick. Period.

 

[pookie69]

Originally posted by: Sunner
I must say, one group of people who are incredibly annoying are the Holier Than Thou crowd who blasts people left and right with the "Yeah yeah, but it's still piracy!" argument.
The lack of them in this thread is impressive.

If people like that have ever walked a red light or driven a single km/h too fast they should just STFU.

LOL - true say brethren.

 

[pookie69]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey


I really doubt it would drop all that much. I don't think sales would increase enough to make up the difference either, and that's where the real problem is. They can try spending less when making the games, but how fun would that be?

😕... good point. This is where the problem lies then.

Like i said before >>> a real pickle of a problem.

 

[edro]

You can buy one hell of a video card with the money I have saved from pirating.

 

[Johnbear007]

Personally I think all of the rationlizations are BS. Stop trying to convince yourself what you are doing is ok. Either accept that you are evil and have fun, or don't do it. Either way keep your BS to yourself.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Johnbear007
Personally I think all of the rationlizations are BS. Stop trying to convince yourself what you are doing is ok. Either accept that you are evil and have fun, or don't do it. Either way keep your BS to yourself.

See my post above.
Come to think of it, both posts.

First, please let me know what you think of my first post, then answer the second one.