Doom 3 "High" quality only available on 256mb cards?

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
You're finished with the 6800 vanilla already? That must be a record, even for you. It lasted, what, a month? Should've bought a GT in the first place.

I don't understand all this "buying advice"? Last I checked, I lived in the good ol' USA where I can spend my money on whatever I like, whenever I like.

There's nothing dishonorable about liking to buy and try video cards, unlike, say, how I've heard of some unscrupulous characters buying X800Xts and then price gouging on Ebay.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Rollo

Good for you . . . you finally "caught on"; the GT is a really nice card . . .

me, i am quite happy with 10x7 HiQ and 2xAA/4xAF - a little 'better' then i expected . . . i only needed to buy one card. :roll:

There was nothing to "catch on" about. I got a great deal on a great card (6800NU) from a buddy.

It appears to play Doom3 at high detail at good performance your only options are a 6800GT or Ultra, or a X800XT PE, so I bought one of the three. (of note, it's pretty tough to find any of these in stock)

You did indeed buy only one card, unfortunately it is woefully underpowered for many of the best games that will come out in the next 12 months. I may have bought two, but either was a far better choice than a 9800XT. What good is high detail in Doom3 if your card is slow?

letsee you got such a "great deal" you are "upgrading" is just over a month.

i guess your "far better" is just means "much (much) more expensive"? :roll:

i knew exactly what i was getting - for cheap.

and "slow" to you is "perfectly acceptable" to me . . . 10x7, HiQ, 2xaa/4xaf above 30FPS min is not "slow" by most gamer's standards . . .

This is what I mean by "slow" Apoppin':
http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQyLDM=
My 6800GT will run Doom3 at High Quality, 10X7, 4X8X, at 60fps. Anyone could live with that, and from the looks of things everyone will have to.

http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQyLDQ=
But what's this?!?! The High Quality you seem to be glad you'll be able to run on your 9800XT is slow as Voodoo1 days!
High Quality, 10X7, 4X8X = 26.9 fps????? Let's see, since your average is below 30 fps, what would your minimum be?! 3 fps? LOL I'm glad that is "acceptable" to you, but this is a game not a huge collection of screenshots?

I suppose you could always skip the AA and get 2/3 of my performance, but at 10X7 there aren't really enough pixels to go around, are there? Those monsters are going to be even more scary for you Apoppin'- they're going to look like they're in the process of shattering? "Uh....why does my marine's gun barrel look like a staircase?!?!"

As far as my great deal goes:
1. I was smart enough to obtain a card that will run Doom 3, Half Life2, and Far Cry much faster than a sorry 9800XT.
2. I happen to have the funds to cover my bases when the unexpected occurs and id says the game I've been waiting for was geared toward 256MB cards.
3. I'm not out anything- I guarantee you I could sell either card for more than I paid for it.
4. Did I mention I wasn't stupid enough to buy an 8 pipe 2002 tech card that can only choke and sputter running games like Far Cry and Doom 3?

Cheers Big Chief:beer:- you spent the first half of this thread mocking me and my card for no reason whatsoever. You spent the last few weeks parroting that eVGA marketing quote like some holy mantra of why a 9800 is a far better buy than a 6800NU.

Next week I'm going to put the smack down on you by posting 6800GT, 6800NU, and maybe even 5800U benches for Doom 3 that are all likely better than you'll be able to cough up.

 

i think your gunna need a 512MB video card to run it on max settings

 

[GeneralGrievous]

I don't understand all this "buying advice"? Last I checked, I lived in the good ol' USA where I can spend my money on whatever I like, whenever I like.

There's nothing dishonorable about liking to buy and try video cards, unlike, say, how I've heard of some unscrupulous characters buying X800Xts and then price gouging on Ebay.

Eh? I didn't realize that you couldn't sell things in the good ol' USA.

I was just confused. You did say that the 6800 was the minimum requirement for Farcry, Doom, HL2, but apparently that's not enough anymore? Also, since this is your 2nd NV40 core, so I guess the NV40 refresh next year is a nogo? After all, Rollo does not buy the same/similar core 3 times.

You can certainly do whatever you like, but this is quite strange behavior.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Rollo

Good for you . . . you finally "caught on"; the GT is a really nice card . . .

me, i am quite happy with 10x7 HiQ and 2xAA/4xAF - a little 'better' then i expected . . . i only needed to buy one card. :roll:

There was nothing to "catch on" about. I got a great deal on a great card (6800NU) from a buddy.

It appears to play Doom3 at high detail at good performance your only options are a 6800GT or Ultra, or a X800XT PE, so I bought one of the three. (of note, it's pretty tough to find any of these in stock)

You did indeed buy only one card, unfortunately it is woefully underpowered for many of the best games that will come out in the next 12 months. I may have bought two, but either was a far better choice than a 9800XT. What good is high detail in Doom3 if your card is slow?

letsee you got such a "great deal" you are "upgrading" is just over a month.

i guess your "far better" is just means "much (much) more expensive"? :roll:

i knew exactly what i was getting - for cheap.

and "slow" to you is "perfectly acceptable" to me . . . 10x7, HiQ, 2xaa/4xaf above 30FPS min is not "slow" by most gamer's standards . . .

This is what I mean by "slow" Apoppin':
http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQyLDM=
My 6800GT will run Doom3 at High Quality, 10X7, 4X8X, at 60fps. Anyone could live with that, and from the looks of things everyone will have to

http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQyLDQ=
But what's this?!?! The High Quality you seem to be glad you'll be able to run on your 9800XT is slow as Voodoo1 days!
High Quality, 10X7, 4X8X = 26.9 fps????? Let's see, since your average is below 30 fps, what would your minimum be?! 3 fps? LOL I'm glad that is "acceptable" to you, but this is a game not a huge collection of screenshots?.

and you spent 3 times what i did. You also seem to overlook HardOCP's conclusion: <<Turning on a high level of Antialiasing with these cards is probably going to be pushing them a bit much. That said, we think they should be very playable at 2XAA. Again I caution you as John did to keep in mind that these are just benchmarks as the true DOOM 3 gaming experience is looking to be very flexible and forgiving in terms of hardware needs.>>
Looks like over 30FPS will be reached by adopting a compromise - 2xAA/4xAF at 10x7 and HiQ . .. something MOST gamers would find quite playable.

I suppose you could always skip the AA and get 2/3 of my performance, but at 10X7 there aren't really enough pixels to go around, are there? Those monsters are going to be even more scary for you Apoppin'- they're going to look like they're in the process of shattering? "Uh....why does my marine's gun barrel look like a staircase?!?!"

it's a 9800XT, remember, "only" ~15% slower then your original choice the 6800standard

As far as my great deal goes:
1. I was smart enough to obtain a card that will run Doom 3, Half Life2, and Far Cry much faster than a sorry 9800XT.

you mean TWO cards

2. I happen to have the funds to cover my bases when the unexpected occurs and id says the game I've been waiting for was geared toward 256MB cards.

in other words, you made a bad choice and you are spending MORE money to fix it

3. I'm not out anything- I guarantee you I could sell either card for more than I paid for it.

MY time is worth more than than

4. Did I mention I wasn't stupid enough to buy an 8 pipe 2002 tech card that can only choke and sputter running games like Far Cry and Doom 3?

but you WERE stupid enough to get a castrated crappy-performer in Diii, brag all about it over AT and THEN realize it is INsufficient. Great planning.

Cheers Big Chief:beer:- you spent the first half of this thread mocking me and my card for no reason whatsoever. You spent the last few weeks parroting that eVGA marketing quote like some holy mantra of why a 9800 is a far better buy than a 6800NU.

Did eVGA reply to your e-mail? the 6800NU IS a very poor buy compared to the GT

Next week I'm going to put the smack down on you by posting 6800GT, 6800NU, and maybe even 5800U benches for Doom 3 that are all likely better than you'll be able to cough up.

but are you a good gamer . . . ? You obviously have money to blow and a lot ot TALK . . .

. . . i guess i touched a sore spot. i am not arguing the fact that you seem to have more money than sense.

:roll:

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous

I don't understand all this "buying advice"? Last I checked, I lived in the good ol' USA where I can spend my money on whatever I like, whenever I like.

There's nothing dishonorable about liking to buy and try video cards, unlike, say, how I've heard of some unscrupulous characters buying X800Xts and then price gouging on Ebay.

Eh? I didn't realize that you couldn't sell things in the good ol' USA.

I was just confused. You did say that the 6800 was the minimum requirement for Farcry, Doom, HL2, but apparently that's not enough anymore? Also, since this is your 2nd NV40 core, so I guess the NV40 refresh next year is a nogo? After all, Rollo does not buy the same/similar core 3 times.

You can certainly do whatever you like, but this is quite strange behavior.

Nothing has changed about my position that the 6800NU is the minimum requirement for the serious gamer at this point in time, or my opinion that it's a great buy at it's price point.

However; I have been waiting for Doom3 for years most anxiously. I can honestly say I ordered the 6800GT because I wanted my Doom 3 experience to be as good as it can get.

My four year old may well get the 6800NU, he would be livin' large among the pre-schoolers then.

 

[Mareg]

a bit off topic but still, we are talking about a game that no one will be able to experience at its full from day one :

I plan to start a thread about "Games that where ahead of their time".

Here is one of the first game that went out to custumer even thought no system could run it at correct speed.

............. Do you remember the first System Shock. This game was so awesome in its engine that the mere 486 of the days where all slideshow at the time. We had to wait almost a year before the pentium could crack this extroardinary processor hug game !

 

[nRollo]

Gee Apoppin, now your 9800XT is only 15% slower than my 6800NU?
How's that when right here on AT it's 20% slower or more in 17/25 of the benchmarks? That doesn't seem like 15% to me, must be some kind of new math?

Don't worry Apoppin', when the monsters attack and your maybe high 30s average at 10X7 2X4X 9800XT drops down below 30fps, that will give you a good chance to ponder you next move during the pauses.

"Oh...............no...............here.........comes...........a.......................................man..........cu............bus.......I'd ............better.........................................switch........................guns....................."

Better watch out for my four year old online if I give him the 6800NU. He may not be at High Quality, buy I bet he won't be in the 30s at 10X7 2X4X either!
:beer:

BTW, if:

but you WERE stupid enough to get a castrated crappy-performer in Diii, brag all about it over AT and THEN realize it is INsufficient. Great planning.

What does that make your planning buying a card that's 20%+ slower at 2/3 of the benches here? Stellar?

 

[Mareg]

Yeah, great idea. Maybe I will be able to play without dying of an heart attack from the demon waiting next corner, framerate being sub 20 and all. That could be a great + for wussie

 

[GeneralGrievous]

Doom 3 is right at its time, with the release of the 6800 series. Farcry was several months ahead of its time though.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Mareg
Yeah, great idea. Maybe I will be able to play without dying of an heart attack from the demon waiting next corner, framerate being sub 20 and all. That could be a great + for wussie

LOL

"He jumped out at me- why is he hanging there in the air?!!?!?!"

BTW Apoppin notice how in those benchmarks the 6800GT is at 56fps at 1600X1200 0X8X? Think I could do your 2x4x trick on 16X12 and have some kickass looking Doom3 as you don't need AA as much at 16X12 anyway?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Gee Apoppin, now your 9800XT is only 15% slower than my 6800NU?
How's that when right here on AT it's 20% slower or more in 17/25 of the benchmarks? That doesn't seem like 15% to me, must be some kind of new math?

Don't worry Apoppin', when the monsters attack and your maybe high 30s average at 10X7 2X4X 9800XT drops down below 30fps, that will give you a good chance to ponder you next move during the pauses.

Better watch out for my four year old online if I give him the 6800NU. He may not be at High Quality, buy I bet he won't be in the 30s at 10X7 2X4X either!
:beer:

You have a hard time with reality, nevermind math.

ANd you DO have problems with simply reading 'cause you never addressed HardOCP's conclusions: <<Turning on a high level of Antialiasing with these cards is probably going to be pushing them a bit much. That said, we think they should be very playable at 2XAA. Again I caution you as John did to keep in mind that these are just benchmarks as the true DOOM 3 gaming experience is looking to be very flexible and forgiving in terms of hardware needs.>>

It just looks like you might be covering some personal inadequacies with you need to have . . . bigger HW . . .

:roll:

No . . . you are right, he won't be at HiQ . . . kinda of a "shame" for such an expensive card. . .

i still haven't finished Thief-Deadly Shadows (i am getting near the end and it is getting BETTER and BETTER . . . no slowdowns here . . . 11x8 HiQ MaxAA/AF . . . the gamePLAY is eXceptional!) so i may not read your "witty" reply until much later.

Aloha

 

[nRollo]

One thing that you really must keep in mind when looking at timedemo results such as these, is that DOOM 3?s AI and physics engine are not being used as they would in a real-world gaming experience. That considered, we would guess our average framerates shown here to be a bit higher than if you were actually playing the game

This is what you need to keep in mind as your 9800XT does it's feeble little dance along the 30fps smooth gameplay threshold Apoppin'.

 

[Klixxer]

I'll buy it just because of ID's linux support, but it won't be playable on my rig (athlon 500, GF2MX).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

One thing that you really must keep in mind when looking at timedemo results such as these, is that DOOM 3?s AI and physics engine are not being used as they would in a real-world gaming experience. That considered, we would guess our average framerates shown here to be a bit higher than if you were actually playing the game

This is what you need to keep in mind as your 9800XT does it's feeble little dance along the 30fps smooth gameplay threshold Apoppin'.

feeble for you . . . perhaps . . .but then so was your first choice of card.

and i only had to pay 1/3 of what you did . . . did you miss the HArdOCP graph that shows my Radeon 9800XT happily chugging along in the DEMO (better in the game) at 45.7FPS - 10x7 HiQ and NoAA but with 8xAF . . . only adding the 4XAA is what slows the XT to below 30FPS . . . 2xAA should still be quite playable (according to the review, not your wild mindless feeble speculations).

i can live w/no or minimal AA (to save hundreds of dollars) . . .

 

[nRollo]

You can rationalize it all you like Apoppin.

The facts and benchmarks speak for themselves:
6800GT>6800NU>9800XT

One of us apparently has good taste, the other.........oh well.

Just keep chanting your mantra,"It's only 12%, eVGA says so...It's only 12%, eVGA says so....It's only 12%, eVGA says so...."

LOL

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo
You can rationalize it all you like Apoppin.

The facts and benchmarks speak for themselves:
6800GT>6800NU>9800XT

One of us apparently has good taste, the other.........oh well.

Just keep chanting your mantra,"It's only 12%, eVGA says so...It's only 12%, eVGA says so....It's only 12%, eVGA says so...."

LOL

thanks for the compliment on the "good taste" . . .

:roll:

and we are absolutely agreed The facts and benchmarks speak for themselves:
6800GT>6800NU>9800XT.

Of course it does not take into account personal preference, system balance, differing upgrade paths or "value".


My system is quite "balanced" and will do fine for me at 10x7 and better-than-i-expected 47.7 FPS and HiQ . . . being able to add maximum AF with perhaps minimum AA and still stay around my minimum 30 FPS was just the 'icing' on the cake for me when i read that HardOcP preview. . . . i am totally happy with my choice.

i realize you are quite proud of your new GT and you DO have a very fine video card that IS worth every penny IMO that matches YOUR system . . . enjoy your doom . . .

perhaps if i ever get broadband, i'll see you in hell



(and frag your @$$ good)


(j/k'ing, of course)

 

[Jaskalas]

I'd be glad to frag Rollo just for some method of paying back the time wasted on reading how he knocks down last generation?s greatest video card and comparing it to this generation?s video cards.

Yeah.. and Rollo, our Geforce 6800's sure do suck compared to the NV50 don't they? I mean.. we were all morons for buying them in the first place, when next generation you'll be telling us how silly it is for us to even own a 6800? Or does that only apply to ATI's last generation?

I?d say very few people have the cash to throw at cards every time a better one appears. So it?s very disrespectful of you to criticize them for whatever they are currently stuck with.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I'd be glad to frag Rollo just for some method of paying back the time wasted on reading how he knocks down last generation?s greatest video card and comparing it to this generation?s video cards.

Yeah.. and Rollo, our Geforce 6800's sure do suck compared to the NV50 don't they? I mean.. we were all morons for buying them in the first place, when next generation you'll be telling us how silly it is for us to even own a 6800? Or does that only apply to ATI's last generation?

I?d say very few people have the cash to throw at cards every time a better one appears. So it?s very disrespectful of you to criticize them for whatever they are currently stuck with.

Jaskalas:
In general I could care less about what anyone else uses, and would never waste my time pointing out that I have a better video card(s) to someone. (it's rude, uncouth behavior IMO)

Apoppin; however, has spent the last month inexplicably trashing me and my fine 6800NU and telling other people why they shouldn't "waste" their money on one.

E.G.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&amp;threadid=1360956&amp;STARTPAGE=1&amp;FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

"somebody" is prolly upset about their 6800standard's inability to get much past "medium".

my condolences

just cause you got a "useless" np, don't worry about those of us with the 9800XTs/5950Us . . . they WILL effectively use their 256MB . . . just not the lower end cards.
kinda sad about the newer $300 cards w/128MB ram.

i meant 'kinda sad' in having to play Diii at a LowerQ setting than the top cards of last year . . . i'd be a little annoyed IF i spent $300 on a 'premium' card that is forced to play at MedQ setting - nevermind the rez.

You can search his posts if you want to see a lot more of the same.

So, I don't mind telling Apoppin things like the following at all:

If a 12 pipe card with SM3 is "crippled" in your opinion, what is an 8 pipe card without SM3? That runs 99% of benchmarks slower, and most of them by 20% or more?

You're dreaming about your good gaming experience at 10X7 2X4X High Q. The review said those averages would be higher than actual gameplay and you want to add AA to the mix. Where does a pitiful 9800XT's minimum fps go when the average gets into the high 30s? Oh yeah- waaaaayyyyy down to 23 fps!

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjExLDQ=

LOL
I don't remember the movie, but the line was "He chose well". Must not have been about Apoppin.

 

[FluxCap]

I don't remember the movie, but the line was "He chose well". Must not have been about Apoppin.

It was "He chose wisely" - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

 

[VIAN]

Luckily, noone listened to me when they wanted to buy new cards.

It's ok though, because I bet Medium will look just as good as High. It's all just compression.

it's a 9800XT, remember, "only" ~15% slower then your original choice the 6800standard

15%, hah - try up to 40%.

The 9800 XT is up to 20% faster than the 6800 when AA/AF is enabled, but when disabled, the 6800 wins by up to 40%.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I'd be glad to frag Rollo just for some method of paying back the time wasted on reading how he knocks down last generation?s greatest video card and comparing it to this generation?s video cards.

Yeah.. and Rollo, our Geforce 6800's sure do suck compared to the NV50 don't they? I mean.. we were all morons for buying them in the first place, when next generation you'll be telling us how silly it is for us to even own a 6800? Or does that only apply to ATI's last generation?

I?d say very few people have the cash to throw at cards every time a better one appears. So it?s very disrespectful of you to criticize them for whatever they are currently stuck with.

Jaskalas:
In general I could care less about what anyone else uses, and would never waste my time pointing out that I have a better video card(s) to someone. (it's rude, uncouth behavior IMO)

Apoppin; however, has spent the last month inexplicably trashing me and my fine 6800NU and telling other people why they shouldn't "waste" their money on one.

. . .

You're dreaming about your good gaming experience at 10X7 2X4X High Q. The review said those averages would be higher than actual gameplay and you want to add AA to the mix. Where does a pitiful 9800XT's minimum fps go when the average gets into the high 30s? Oh yeah- waaaaayyyyy down to 23 fps!

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjExLDQ=

LOL
I don't remember the movie, but the line was "He chose well". Must not have been about Apoppin.

and you chose TWICE

look, just 'cause you dont UNDERSTAND what i posted . . . NEVERmind . . . i am DONE replying to you

. . . the smarter guys here are finally realizing that you are all "talk"



my "job" is done here

:roll:

 

[rbV5]

Looking at HardOCP Doom3 hardware guide. 6800nu will be playable at High Quality 1280x1024 NoAA 8XAF. Only the X800XT PE ATI card benches better, but X800pro, 9800XT and 9800pro 128MB will all be playable at high quality.

Link

Even up to 1600x1200 on a Northwood platform
Link

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I'd be glad to frag Rollo just for some method of paying back the time wasted on reading how he knocks down last generation?s greatest video card and comparing it to this generation?s video cards.

Yeah.. and Rollo, our Geforce 6800's sure do suck compared to the NV50 don't they? I mean.. we were all morons for buying them in the first place, when next generation you'll be telling us how silly it is for us to even own a 6800? Or does that only apply to ATI's last generation?

I?d say very few people have the cash to throw at cards every time a better one appears. So it?s very disrespectful of you to criticize them for whatever they are currently stuck with.

Jaskalas:
In general I could care less about what anyone else uses, and would never waste my time pointing out that I have a better video card(s) to someone. (it's rude, uncouth behavior IMO)

Apoppin; however, has spent the last month inexplicably trashing me and my fine 6800NU and telling other people why they shouldn't "waste" their money on one.

E.G.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&amp;threadid=1360956&amp;STARTPAGE=1&amp;FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

"somebody" is prolly upset about their 6800standard's inability to get much past "medium".

my condolences

just cause you got a "useless" np, don't worry about those of us with the 9800XTs/5950Us . . . they WILL effectively use their 256MB . . . just not the lower end cards.
kinda sad about the newer $300 cards w/128MB ram.

i meant 'kinda sad' in having to play Diii at a LowerQ setting than the top cards of last year . . . i'd be a little annoyed IF i spent $300 on a 'premium' card that is forced to play at MedQ setting - nevermind the rez.

You can search his posts if you want to see a lot more of the same.

Hrrrmm... I'll have to find a way to frag you both then.

On a related topic, the 6800NU actually impressed me with the Doom3 hardware review, and is proving to be a good upgrade from the 9600 range of cards. I'm not convinced I would buy a 6800NU if I had the most expensive cards from last generation.. but then, I wouldn't expect someone with a Radeon 9800 to change trends and go cheap suddenly.

I couldn't stop smiling at the vague differences the GT and the Ultra have with my P4. Poor thing? I did not expect CPU limitations so soon? errr, would a year and a quarter be soon?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: rbV5
Looking at HardOCP Doom3 hardware guide. 6800nu will be playable at High Quality 1280x1024 NoAA 8XAF. Only the X800XT PE ATI card benches better, but X800pro, 9800XT and 9800pro 128MB will all be playable at high quality.

Link

Even up to 1600x1200 on a Northwood platform
Link

Wow. So the 6800NU *CAN* run DoomIII in HQ mode. Interesting. I guess that Id guy didn't know WTF he was talking about.

It gets an average of 57FPS at 1280x1024 in DoomIII in HQ mode. That's perfect for anyone with a 17"/19" LCD IMO.

The 9800XT only gets 50FPS at 1024x768 in HQ mode. That's 14% slower in a lower resolution. I thought that the 9800XT was only supposed to be 12% slower, apoppin. Maybe now you will realize how drastically incorrect you were when you were throwing that number around. On top of that, you should apologize to Rollo for trashing his card saying it can't run in HQ mode when in reality it can and it outperforms your 256mb card.