DOJ report on Minneapolis Police Department post George Floyd is completed. Results will surprise only a few here.

[ondma]

The following reports appear more reliable, and roughly in-line with what Indeed.com has:

Minneapolis police officers' starting salaries would go from $69k to $75k under proposed labor contract • Minnesota Reformer

Minneapolis police sergeants who earned about $44 an hour in 2020 — the equivalent of $91,520 annually for 40 hours per week — would make $48 an hour, or nearly $100,000 by the end of this year under the tentative police union deal.

minnesotareformer.com

The mayor says Minneapolis cops — who start at about $65,000 a year — should get paid more • Minnesota Reformer

How much do Minneapolis police officers get paid?

minnesotareformer.com

The source from the latter is a 2019 state-wide audit. Keep in mind many LEOs earn a substantial amount in overtime pay, esp. when departments everywhere are well short in manpower. The numbers can be truly eye-watering:

Minneapolis police officers continue to rack up hefty overtime as understaffing continues • Minnesota Reformer

Among the roughly 860 total employees of the Minneapolis Police Department, 70% made six figures in 2022— surpassing the year before, when 466 employees made at least $100,000.

minnesotareformer.com

Even 100k is not a huge salary these days. In any case though, I dont think the salary is the main problem for recruitment, and I am not sure that increasing the salary, outside of a huge increase, would help recruitment that much. IMO, it is the very difficult bind the police are put into between the danger to themselves and the danger of serious repercussions if an arrest goes bad, intentionally or not. As for Minneapolis, I hope the department is on the right track. We have a new chief, and the previous head of the police union has been removed. I think the police union, and in particular the old school head of the union, was a big part of the problem with abuses and lack of accountability.

 

[Vic]

Lol at you selectively picking a few departments while I noted it is now a nationwide problem because of people like you who do nothing but crap on them no matter how good some of them are enforcing laws society has to make us safe against lawlessness.

Says the clown who expects people to blindly support law enforcement even when law enforcement breaks the law and violates the Constitution.
Because you're too stupid (or dishonest) to recognize that the only way to make society safe against lawlessness is to ensure that the law is upheld equally for all.

 

[akugami]

Think about it. Even if you make $100,000 a year, you are going to earn every penny. Its not a job where you can sit on ass, eating snacks all day at your desk, watching Netflix while pretending to work.

People usually only call the police when a situation is out of control. You get a call and now you have to show up, immerse yourself in the situation, figure things out. Try to listen to all parties and sort things out. Hopefully everyone is calm, peaceful and cooperative.

Lots of times however people are either drunk, high on street drugs, extremely combative and uncooperative, or just assaulted or robbed someone and are now fleeing the scene. You now have to pursue them no matter how much resistance they put up. Its YOUR JOB to do this.

Even a simple traffic stop. Everyone and their sister has a gun these days. Someone decides they do not want a ticket or go to jail but would rather kill you. You walk up to the car and are now facing a hail of bullets. You are the one responsible for enforcing the law. Will you live long enough to collect even a year of salary?

Straw man. No one here is saying police work isn't a dangerous job. No one here is saying such dangerous work doesn't deserve high compensation.

Many people here are saying policemen need to be properly trained and respect the law just like a private citizen would. Just because you wear a badge does not give you the right to be racist, or break rules just because you feel like it.

There are way too many cases where someone with a badge (and it doesn't matter if that officer is black or white) uses excessive force, or deadly force when it was not warranted.

Why do you think practically every single police force in the nation does not support police body cameras? Or get mad when civilians film them? And filming a police officer in a public setting, as long as you do not interfere with police work, is 100% legal.

 

[akugami]

My advise, worthless as I know it is, would be to relax. I think the way you see the world is right, but it is limited. As a conservative you have moral concerns that are much stronger in certain areas than is the case for liberals and respect for authority is one of them. The whole point and evolutionary benefits that the human use of language and verbal and later written communication brought to the table was to be able to transmit living experience of elders to their children, to teach them survival skills. This was such a profound evolutionary advantage to our ancestors that it lead to a genetically inheritable tendency to codify respect for elders into our culture and even our genes. People who respect authority survive and those who don't don't always survive their real life lessons.

So this innate genetic wisdom, respect for elders, respect for authority, respect for parents, respect for culture is a survival adaption to defeat Darwin, if you will.

Liberals, of course, by the same wisdom of lived experience, discovered they can be manipulated by a demand of respect. They realized that respect has to be warranted rather that being just mechanically deferential. Without liberal thinking we would all be lemmings and follow some mad man off a cliff into the sea. Liberals that reject authority out of constant experience of being told to live by terrible advise can fall prey to pooping on authority that is truly authoritative and deservedly.

So I would say appreciate the fact that you hold moral concerns of great value and try to learn from liberals who are quicker to spot fakes. In this way your moral values will not be compromised and their precision in terms of applicability will sharpen. The potential for bad police who abuse their authority does not and should not affect the fact that it's not a good idea to reject all authority. Liberals who tell you otherwise are nuts but so many of them here, that is not what they are saying. Note too, that as you fear a world that has rejected real authority and are fierce in defending it, so too are liberals terrified of a world full of lemmings. They too, out of the same feeling, actually the constriction of feeling, they too can get pretty mean. So, not the left or the right but a third way. Propaganda and ego identifications make knowing who deserves respect and who does not a difficult issue.

Saying conservatives have more respect for the law than a liberal is 100% bullshit. Conservatives are the ones who flaunt the law when it suits them.

Ask Gym Jordan and Kevin McCarthy, who refused to comply with a subpoena.

Ask those who say the constitution is the highest law of the land, yet ignore it when it suits them, such as in the separation of church and state.

Ask Trump who has committed numerous crimes, but conservatives support him, so they can "own da libs". Or when Donald Trump has actively ignored legal proceedings in an effort to beat the numerous court cases against him.

Ask Trump where he got some of the money for his wall that Mexico was going to pay for. And when you find out where he got the money, ask our military personnel how they feel about Trump diverting $3.8 billion that was supposed to go to them.

Ask Trump about his 2021 budget plan that would have cut funding to police. Yeah, the people bitching about democrats trying to defund the police were the real shit heads trying to defund the police. Go figure.

Ask Marjorie Taylor Green, who is on record as saying she will not support any bills that does not cut funding to the DOJ and the FBI.

Ask Kevin McCarthy whose budget requests during the recent debt limit negotiations would have meant a 22% cut to law enforcement funding. Biden's plan would have increased funding for the DOJ, FBI, ATF, and US Marshals Service.


Conservatives say they respect the law, but it's all bullshit. They only care about jamming their views down the throats of anyone and everyone.

Women's rights? Sure, but only if it follows their Christian views. Screw actual women's rights.

Minority rights? Sure, but only behind whites. And they will use gerrymandering and other dirty tricks to make sure it stays that way.

Religions freedom? Sure, but only if the religion is Christianity.

Anyone who claims conservatives are somehow more upstanding citizens or have higher morals is spouting 100% bullshit.

 

[Vic]

Conservative respect for the law lies entirely in their core belief that some people are protected by the law but not bound to it while others are bound to the law but not protected by it.
That's why we have conservatives preaching law and order in a thread that is literally about cops who abused their authority and violated the law against people conservatives don't believe should be protected by the law.

 

[Moonbeam]

Saying conservatives have more respect for the law than a liberal is 100% bullshit. Conservatives are the ones who flaunt the law when it suits them.

Ask Gym Jordan and Kevin McCarthy, who refused to comply with a subpoena.

Ask those who say the constitution is the highest law of the land, yet ignore it when it suits them, such as in the separation of church and state.

Ask Trump who has committed numerous crimes, but conservatives support him, so they can "own da libs". Or when Donald Trump has actively ignored legal proceedings in an effort to beat the numerous court cases against him.

Ask Trump where he got some of the money for his wall that Mexico was going to pay for. And when you find out where he got the money, ask our military personnel how they feel about Trump diverting $3.8 billion that was supposed to go to them.

Ask Trump about his 2021 budget plan that would have cut funding to police. Yeah, the people bitching about democrats trying to defund the police were the real shit heads trying to defund the police. Go figure.

Ask Marjorie Taylor Green, who is on record as saying she will not support any bills that does not cut funding to the DOJ and the FBI.

Ask Kevin McCarthy whose budget requests during the recent debt limit negotiations would have meant a 22% cut to law enforcement funding. Biden's plan would have increased funding for the DOJ, FBI, ATF, and US Marshals Service.


Conservatives say they respect the law, but it's all bullshit. They only care about jamming their views down the throats of anyone and everyone.

Women's rights? Sure, but only if it follows their Christian views. Screw actual women's rights.

Minority rights? Sure, but only behind whites. And they will use gerrymandering and other dirty tricks to make sure it stays that way.

Religions freedom? Sure, but only if the religion is Christianity.

Anyone who claims conservatives are somehow more upstanding citizens or have higher morals is spouting 100% bullshit.

What Vic said in the post that follows yours is descriptive of conservative behavior.

I said that conservatives have more moral concerns than liberals do and share two with them. To have more moral concerns does not make one more moral than someone else if one does not practice them properly, and having more of them means there are more ways to go astray. If you want a scientific explanation for what I said above see Jonathan Haidt. I grabbed this at random:

Moral Foundations Theory Explained by Jonathan Haidt

In The Righteous Mind, Jonathan Haidt develops “Moral Foundations Theory" to explain why good people are divided by politics and religion.

dividedwefall.org

You might want to bear in mind that conservatives, react to negative facts that are tied up with ego self respect, the phony kind, rationalize away data that challenges their opinions more than liberals do. Anatomical differences in brain structure between liberals and conservatives likely explain this. I won't go into that here. Think of bigotry, a belief that confers a sense of self righteousness and higher moral standing than someone else. The bigot will have all sorts of reasons as to why say, white people are superior to others but all of those rest on some basic learned ad instilled nonsense of one kind or another and to which they will be confoundedly and astonishingly blind. Hope this helps. I agree, of course, with what you said otherwise.

 

[feralkid]

Saying conservatives have more respect for the law than a liberal is 100% bullshit. Conservatives are the ones who flaunt the law when it suits them.

Ask Gym Jordan and Kevin McCarthy, who refused to comply with a subpoena.

Ask those who say the constitution is the highest law of the land, yet ignore it when it suits them, such as in the separation of church and state.

Ask Trump who has committed numerous crimes, but conservatives support him, so they can "own da libs". Or when Donald Trump has actively ignored legal proceedings in an effort to beat the numerous court cases against him.

Ask Trump where he got some of the money for his wall that Mexico was going to pay for. And when you find out where he got the money, ask our military personnel how they feel about Trump diverting $3.8 billion that was supposed to go to them.

Ask Trump about his 2021 budget plan that would have cut funding to police. Yeah, the people bitching about democrats trying to defund the police were the real shit heads trying to defund the police. Go figure.

Ask Marjorie Taylor Green, who is on record as saying she will not support any bills that does not cut funding to the DOJ and the FBI.

Ask Kevin McCarthy whose budget requests during the recent debt limit negotiations would have meant a 22% cut to law enforcement funding. Biden's plan would have increased funding for the DOJ, FBI, ATF, and US Marshals Service.


Conservatives say they respect the law, but it's all bullshit. They only care about jamming their views down the throats of anyone and everyone.

Women's rights? Sure, but only if it follows their Christian views. Screw actual women's rights.

Minority rights? Sure, but only behind whites. And they will use gerrymandering and other dirty tricks to make sure it stays that way.

Religions freedom? Sure, but only if the religion is Christianity.

Anyone who claims conservatives are somehow more upstanding citizens or have higher morals is spouting 100% bullshit.

Flout is the word.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Says the clown who expects people to blindly support law enforcement even when law enforcement breaks the law and violates the Constitution.
Because you're too stupid (or dishonest) to recognize that the only way to make society safe against lawlessness is to ensure that the law is upheld equally for all.

Says the clown who called for blind faith in regular people trained to enforce laws, even those who break other laws to enforce them. Like the clown you are, you always find clownish ways to behave like a clown. To find fault where none exists.

You need to stop clowning around and thank God people even bother to take the job of keeping your clown face safe when you call them. Too bad they dont know how much you hate them.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Straw man. No one here is saying police work isn't a dangerous job. No one here is saying such dangerous work doesn't deserve high compensation.

Many people here are saying policemen need to be properly trained and respect the law just like a private citizen would. Just because you wear a badge does not give you the right to be racist, or break rules just because you feel like it.

There are way too many cases where someone with a badge (and it doesn't matter if that officer is black or white) uses excessive force, or deadly force when it was not warranted.

Why do you think practically every single police force in the nation does not support police body cameras? Or get mad when civilians film them? And filming a police officer in a public setting, as long as you do not interfere with police work, is 100% legal.

Straw man? I made no argument. You perceive that I did however. Put your imagination away and recognize that its not an easy job to do.

 

[Vic]

Says the clown who called for blind faith in regular people trained to enforce laws, even those who break other laws to enforce them. Like the clown you are, you always find clownish ways to behave like a clown. To find fault where none exists.

You need to stop clowning around and thank God people even bother to take the job of keeping your clown face safe when you call them. Too bad they dont know how much you hate them.

This comment doesn't even make the slightest bit of sense. Clearly you're flailing here.
The faults committed by the MPD are clearly spelled out in the OP, and holding law enforcement accountable to the law is completely unemotional.

 

[akugami]

What Vic said in the post that follows yours is descriptive of conservative behavior.

I said that conservatives have more moral concerns than liberals do and share two with them. To have more moral concerns does not make one more moral than someone else if one does not practice them properly, and having more of them means there are more ways to go astray. If you want a scientific explanation for what I said above see Jonathan Haidt. I grabbed this at random:

Moral Foundations Theory Explained by Jonathan Haidt

In The Righteous Mind, Jonathan Haidt develops “Moral Foundations Theory" to explain why good people are divided by politics and religion.

dividedwefall.org

You might want to bear in mind that conservatives, react to negative facts that are tied up with ego self respect, the phony kind, rationalize away data that challenges their opinions more than liberals do. Anatomical differences in brain structure between liberals and conservatives likely explain this. I won't go into that here. Think of bigotry, a belief that confers a sense of self righteousness and higher moral standing than someone else. The bigot will have all sorts of reasons as to why say, white people are superior to others but all of those rest on some basic learned ad instilled nonsense of one kind or another and to which they will be confoundedly and astonishingly blind. Hope this helps. I agree, of course, with what you said otherwise.

This is what you wrote: "As a conservative you have moral concerns that are much stronger in certain areas than is the case for liberals and respect for authority is one of them."

Now that was part of a larger paragraph, and one I bolded from your post, but to me, there is no other way than to paint the picture as conservatives have more moral and respect (especially for authority figures) than liberals. This has long been a conservative talking point of liberals being lawless individuals. This is not a new talking point. It has been ongoing for years. And I just pointed out how that is 100% wrong. There is empirical evidence that conservatives are worse than liberals when it comes to respecting the law and authority figures.

I'm not here to get into anatomy or whatever. I'm tired of these word games of "well I didn't exactly say that". As I stated earlier in this post, to me, the implications of your post is clear. You are claiming conservatives are more moral and respectful than liberals. I'm not going to beat around the bush. I'm going to speak bluntly. I'm tired of conservatives acting holier than thou. They are not more moral. They are not more upstanding. Actions speak louder than words. The average conservative has proven him or herself to be people with very negative views. And one of them is only respecting authority when it suits them, and ignoring the law or authority figures when it suits them. In exact opposite to your claims of conservatives being more respectful of authority. A conservative outlook does not make someone bad, but you will have an extremely hard time convincing me that hardcore conservatives, which seem to dominate the republican party, are not grade-A assholes.

 

[akugami]

Straw man? I made no argument. You perceive that I did however. Put your imagination away and recognize that its not an easy job to do.

No. I know what you wrote. You know what you wrote. You tried to twist the narrative, and push the blame of racist and illegal activity from the police to those who interact with the police.

 

[HomerJS]

Straw man? I made no argument. You perceive that I did however. Put your imagination away and recognize that its not an easy job to do.

Much as you defend racist cops by opining on what they have to deal with on the job, news flash cop doesn't crack the top 10 most dangerous jobs and on most lists doesn't crack the top 20

The 10 most dangerous jobs in America

Here's a look at the 10 most dangerous jobs in America, based on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The most common workplace deaths were related to transportation

www.cnbc.com

The 14 deadliest jobs in America

Logging workers, roofers, pilots, grounds maintenance, and helpers in construction were some of the jobs with high fatal work injury rates in 2022.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[FelixDeCat]

Much as you defend racist cops by opining on what they have to deal with on the job, news flash cop doesn't crack the top 10 most dangerous jobs and on most lists doesn't crack the top 20

The 10 most dangerous jobs in America

Here's a look at the 10 most dangerous jobs in America, based on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The most common workplace deaths were related to transportation

www.cnbc.com

The 14 deadliest jobs in America

Logging workers, roofers, pilots, grounds maintenance, and helpers in construction were some of the jobs with high fatal work injury rates in 2022.

www.businessinsider.com

Again, who is defending racist cops? YOU are the one assuming here. Calling ALL cops racist is akin to calling all teachers pedophiles because at least one is arrested daily in America for sex offenses.

News alert - the majority of cops are good and will risk their lives to protect you. Thank one today.

 

[brycejones]

Again, who is defending racist cops? YOU are the one assuming here. Calling ALL cops racist is akin to calling all teachers pedophiles because at least one is arrested daily in America for sex offenses.

News alert - the majority of cops are good and will risk their lives to protect you. Thank one today.

Unless they are a calling out the shitty behavior of the few so-called "bad apples" then they are not good cops. The culture of policing in this country is broken because cops do not hold their own accountable. Until that happens you can't even begin to say "the majority of cops are good".

 

[HomerJS]

Again, who is defending racist cops? YOU are the one assuming here. Calling ALL cops racist is akin to calling all teachers pedophiles because at least one is arrested daily in America for sex offenses.

News alert - the majority of cops are good and will risk their lives to protect you. Thank one today.

When you have enough racist cops to taint the entire department it reflects on the entire department. Clearly until they were investigated that behavior was tolerated. Are you claiming the only cops in that PD who were aware of the racist behavior were the actual racist cops? If there were good apples in that PD that tolerated the bad ones it makes them all bad apples.

 

[feralkid]

When you have enough racist cops to taint the entire department it reflects on the entire department. Clearly until they were investigated that behavior was tolerated. Are you claiming the only cops in that PD who were aware of the racist behavior were the actual racist cops. If there were good apples in that PD that tolerated the bad ones it makes them all bad apples.

It is well known that MSP has a long history of racism and bigotry. I hope that this most recent public exposure of that fact finally forces "real" change.

 

[Lanyap]

Police departments all across the country are having trouble finding recruits. The problem is society making the job of basic policing difficult.

People watch a few videos on Youtube and now they think they can turn into an expert on the road, trying their case not before a judge but in the middle of traffic, not complying with basic requests for ID and other sorts of nonsense, not rolling down their window, not giving their name, escalating a minor infraction into a deadly situation ... all while filming themselves to get some views on social media from strangers they never met. There are also people who go around deliberately antagonizing police and posting the videos on Youtube, FB, etc.

Would you want the job of enforcing laws for low pay while risking your life to help people who go bezerk when you try to confront them? And if you have to take a life in self defense, heaven help you. An accident can turn into a murder charge or a lawsuit against the city.

So yes, hold police accountable but do not make the job intolerable or no one will do it. Support the police. Support law enforcement.

This sounds a lot like the 1A "auditors" I've been watching lately on YT. They act just like this but they are usually in the right although they can be real assholes.

 

[ondma]

Much as you defend racist cops by opining on what they have to deal with on the job, news flash cop doesn't crack the top 10 most dangerous jobs and on most lists doesn't crack the top 20

The 10 most dangerous jobs in America

Here's a look at the 10 most dangerous jobs in America, based on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The most common workplace deaths were related to transportation

www.cnbc.com

The 14 deadliest jobs in America

Logging workers, roofers, pilots, grounds maintenance, and helpers in construction were some of the jobs with high fatal work injury rates in 2022.

www.businessinsider.com

Those jobs may be dangerous, but they dont have to make split second decisions like the police do about using deadly force against another human being and balancing that decision against their personal safety. So it is not just the "danger", but the stress and decision making required for a police officer, and the very real possibility of being fired or even prosecuted if they make a wrong decision.

 

[Vic]

Again, who is defending racist cops? YOU are the one assuming here. Calling ALL cops racist is akin to calling all teachers pedophiles because at least one is arrested daily in America for sex offenses.

News alert - the majority of cops are good and will risk their lives to protect you. Thank one today.

No one called all cops racist. You're just saying that so that you can defend racist cops.
Because when the subject is about racist cops who break the law and violate the Constitution, like it is here, and you deflect that into a tirade about how no one is allowed to criticize law enforcement, like you did here, then you are defending racist cops.

 

[Vic]

This sounds a lot like the 1A "auditors" I've been watching lately on YT. They act just like this but they are usually in the right although they can be real assholes.

Professionals who work with the public are expected to maintain their professionalism even when confronted with assholes.
That applies to every profession, including cops.

 

[FelixDeCat]

No one called all cops racist. You're just saying that so that you can defend racist cops.
Because when the subject is about racist cops who break the law and violate the Constitution, like it is here, and you deflect that into a tirade about how no one is allowed to criticize law enforcement, like you did here, then you are defending racist cops.

This is Vic's logic:

Talk about frogs? Defending racist cops.
Talk about peanut butter? Defending racist cops.
Talk about bad cops? Defending racist cops.
Point out how hard policing is? Defending racist cops.

What a cuckoo clock!

Keep running on the hamster wheel of circular logic. Its good mental exercise. Im the meantime Im going to Sonic and buy a cherry limeade and enjoy this wonderful day off.

 

[Vic]

What Vic said in the post that follows yours is descriptive of conservative behavior.

I said that conservatives have more moral concerns than liberals do and share two with them. To have more moral concerns does not make one more moral than someone else if one does not practice them properly, and having more of them means there are more ways to go astray. If you want a scientific explanation for what I said above see Jonathan Haidt. I grabbed this at random:

Moral Foundations Theory Explained by Jonathan Haidt

In The Righteous Mind, Jonathan Haidt develops “Moral Foundations Theory" to explain why good people are divided by politics and religion.

dividedwefall.org

You might want to bear in mind that conservatives, react to negative facts that are tied up with ego self respect, the phony kind, rationalize away data that challenges their opinions more than liberals do. Anatomical differences in brain structure between liberals and conservatives likely explain this. I won't go into that here. Think of bigotry, a belief that confers a sense of self righteousness and higher moral standing than someone else. The bigot will have all sorts of reasons as to why say, white people are superior to others but all of those rest on some basic learned ad instilled nonsense of one kind or another and to which they will be confoundedly and astonishingly blind. Hope this helps. I agree, of course, with what you said otherwise.

You're overanalyzing it. Conservatives value the law only insofar as it can be used an instrument to maintain order. And order, in the conservative mind, means hierarchy, with them safely on top. And hierarchy means that if an authority figure, such as law enforcement, violates the law and mistreats a person of lower status, then the authority figure must have been justified in that action. And that we, being lower class persons ourselves because we're not conservatives, need to STFU about it for our own good and safety.
This is Felix's argument in a nutshell.

 

[Moonbeam]

This is what you wrote: "As a conservative you have moral concerns that are much stronger in certain areas than is the case for liberals and respect for authority is one of them."

Now that was part of a larger paragraph, and one I bolded from your post, but to me, there is no other way than to paint the picture as conservatives have more moral and respect (especially for authority figures) than liberals. This has long been a conservative talking point of liberals being lawless individuals. This is not a new talking point. It has been ongoing for years. And I just pointed out how that is 100% wrong. There is empirical evidence that conservatives are worse than liberals when it comes to respecting the law and authority figures.

I'm not here to get into anatomy or whatever. I'm tired of these word games of "well I didn't exactly say that". As I stated earlier in this post, to me, the implications of your post is clear. You are claiming conservatives are more moral and respectful than liberals. I'm not going to beat around the bush. I'm going to speak bluntly. I'm tired of conservatives acting holier than thou. They are not more moral. They are not more upstanding. Actions speak louder than words. The average conservative has proven him or herself to be people with very negative views. And one of them is only respecting authority when it suits them, and ignoring the law or authority figures when it suits them. In exact opposite to your claims of conservatives being more respectful of authority. A conservative outlook does not make someone bad, but you will have an extremely hard time convincing me that hardcore conservatives, which seem to dominate the republican party, are not grade-A assholes.

Denial of facts that conflict with a person's self defined sense of moral superiority over others of a different ideological bent is more typical of conservatives than liberals, but liberals are not immune to it, especially ones with an authoritarian bent because that is at root what causes authoritarianism in the first place, fear, and that fear is the fear of being inferior, morally, culturally, ideologically, you name it; and the reason that fear is there in the first place is because, deeply repressed and mightily armored against conscious awareness, that inferiority is what we really feel. The result, of course, is that we seek others to blame, somebody to pay back, someone we can do to what was done to us, a home, an outlet, for the monster we hide within and will not face.

I have no problem with your facts, conservative rationalization skills are profoundly dangerous but the way you react to those facts makes me question your emotional objectivity. The information I provided you about their moral concerns, that they have more of them than liberals, that they are more likely to act self righteously than liberals were all drawn from peer reviewed science. How you feel and how bluntly you wish to speak of it are of no consequence to what is and what is not.

What I hear in your posts, the first and now this one, is the desire to set yourself up as authoritatively entitled to blame. I hear anger and rage at conservatives generally for having the very qualities you are expressing against them, that your issue is that you hate the conservative within you and want to keep it at arm's length. Why the anger? Why the need to blame? Why the moral superiority?

All of this happens because we are not awake, we do not know what we feel. Your desire to blame, all desire to blame, to point out the evil in others and their need to blame you is all a product of not knowing what we feel. This is how it is. There is nobody to blame. There is a cause for all this and that is it. This endless circular blame is the wheel of Karma. Tears in the rain.

 

[Moonbeam]

You're overanalyzing it. Conservatives value the law only insofar as it can be used an instrument to maintain order. And order, in the conservative mind, means hierarchy, with them safely on top. And hierarchy means that if an authority figure, such as law enforcement, violates the law and mistreats a person of lower status, then the authority figure must have been justified in that action. And that we, being lower class persons ourselves because we're not conservatives, need the STFU about it for our own good and safety.
This is Felix's argument in a nutshell.

This is what they do. Those are descriptive facts based on unbiased observational analysis. The nutshell...

I came at the issue from a different direction. I was driven by a need. I used to be a morally superior person with all the inner misery that goes with it. I needed more than just to rationalize away any challenges to my ethical superiority as everybody around me seemed to, I needed to prove it, I needed to define the real good. So when I began to mercilessly analyze my beliefs in the light of cold reason I discovered what depression and hopelessness mean. I discovered what everyone is running from, the absolute defeat of the ego, the utter meaninglessness of self identity, the utter futility of life. All around the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel, the monkey thought it was all in fun, POP goes the weasel.

At the end of one's rope there is one next step, to let go. One needs to do it to know.

What is is all well and good, but I was a seeker, I needed to know why. Why do we suffer. And the more I suffered the more I needed to know why. The reason is that we are not aware of the emotions that drive our beliefs, that we have ego identifications, sacred cows that are our raison d'etre and which we will defend to the point of violence.

It's all well and good to read a medical text that describes symptoms of a disease. It is quite another matter if you have that disease and want to cure it. Etiology is not a process of over analysis. It is a requirement for finding a cure, in my opinion. I do understand, however, that not many are looking for a cure because the job of the ego is to pretend there's no problems that need fixing.