DOJ report on Minneapolis Police Department post George Floyd is completed. Results will surprise only a few here.

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,005
26,049
136
I'll let you read the article but will highlight a few bullet points. Despite the outcome some here will still claim blacks are at least equally to blame for the racism inflicted upon them.

Among its findings Friday, the Justice Department wrote:

  • The MPD “used dangerous techniques and weapons against people who committed at most a petty offense and sometimes no offense at all.”
  • Officers punished people who made them angry.
  • Police patrolled neighborhoods differently “based on their racial composition and discriminated based on race when searching, handcuffing, or using force against people during stops.”
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
7,286
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Will a consent decree actually have any positive effect? Is there any precedent to show that these are helpful?
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
21,678
4,238
136
Will a consent decree actually have any positive effect? Is there any precedent to show that these are helpful?
I think they do but I don't have anything to cite on it.
I think Seattle straightened up their act after the feds got on them.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
71,849
5,856
126
The need to for an outlet for our own self hate causes us to create external others we can then act out and relieve the tensions bottled up self hate creates. Society has within it and ready at hand all wrom our cultural history, all sorts of templates to choose from. There are all the ones regarding race, regarding gender, regarding geography, you name it. Anything or anybody who identifiable different becomes the whipping boy to vicariously relive and relieve our childhood torture. And as a result of having traditional outlets for the handy projection of self hate we have traditional cultural institutions that are the traditional destination of those who are the sickest. Today, of course, the police department has become a home for many who choose racism as the home for the infliction of dominance as a means of getting even. These are the worst of our Stockholm childhood survivors. The left takes a different turn when it manifests as extreme loathing of those who oppress, not seeing that they are just another form of victim, but not one a liberal society can allow to flourish. A world wide understanding of the devastating effects of self hate and how it operates in all of us especially among children would open many doors for self awareness and improved possibilities for healing. There is a war that needs fighting, but the enemy is each of us.
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,679
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I live in Minneapolis, and I can tell you it is a mess. Not trying to excuse the past of the Mpls PD, but now morale is so low, it is impossible to recruit enough officers to even come close to full strength. We have about 580 officers, with mandated level of 730. We also have a significant shortage of 911 operators. Auto thefts are nearly double that of last year (4,100 so far in 23, thanks Kia), but at least shootings, homicides, and carjackings are down significantly. We have a new chief of police who seems to be trying to get things under control, but not sure how well he will succeed.

 
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feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,183
4,159
136
I live in Minneapolis, and I can tell you it is a mess. Not trying to excuse the past of the Mpls PD, but now morale is so low, it is impossible to recruit enough officers to even come close to full strength. We have about 580 officers, with mandated level of 730. We also have a significant shortage of 911 operators. Auto thefts are nearly double that of last year (4,100 so far in 23, thanks Kia), but at least shootings, homicides, and carjackings are down significantly. We have a new chief of police who seems to be trying to get things under control, but not sure how well he will succeed.

I'm shocked such a historically Racist Neanderthal Department is having trouble hiring new officers.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,348
14,043
136
I think they do but I don't have anything to cite on it.
I think Seattle straightened up their act after the feds got on them.
Nah.. now they're just refusing to do their jobs unless they're allowed to freely shit all over the Constitutional rights of the People they supposedly swore an oath to serve and protect.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
28,932
1,935
126
I live in Minneapolis, and I can tell you it is a mess. Not trying to excuse the past of the Mpls PD, but now morale is so low, it is impossible to recruit enough officers to even come close to full strength. We have about 580 officers, with mandated level of 730. We also have a significant shortage of 911 operators. Auto thefts are nearly double that of last year (4,100 so far in 23, thanks Kia), but at least shootings, homicides, and carjackings are down significantly. We have a new chief of police who seems to be trying to get things under control, but not sure how well he will succeed.

Police departments all across the country are having trouble finding recruits. The problem is society making the job of basic policing difficult.

People watch a few videos on Youtube and now they think they can turn into an expert on the road, trying their case not before a judge but in the middle of traffic, not complying with basic requests for ID and other sorts of nonsense, not rolling down their window, not giving their name, escalating a minor infraction into a deadly situation ... all while filming themselves to get some views on social media from strangers they never met. There are also people who go around deliberately antagonizing police and posting the videos on Youtube, FB, etc.

Would you want the job of enforcing laws for low pay while risking your life to help people who go bezerk when you try to confront them? And if you have to take a life in self defense, heaven help you. An accident can turn into a murder charge or a lawsuit against the city.

So yes, hold police accountable but do not make the job intolerable or no one will do it. Support the police. Support law enforcement.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,348
14,043
136
Police departments all across the country are having trouble finding recruits. The problem is society making the job of basic policing difficult.

People watch a few videos on Youtube and now they think they can turn into an expert on the road, trying their case not before a judge but in the middle of traffic, not complying with basic requests for ID and other sorts of nonsense, not rolling down their window, not giving their name, escalating a minor infraction into a deadly situation ... all while filming themselves to get some views on social media from strangers they never met. There are also people who go around deliberately antagonizing police and posting the videos on Youtube, FB, etc.

Would you want the job of enforcing laws for low pay while risking your life to help people who go bezerk when you try to confront them? And if you have to take a life in self defense, heaven help you. An accident can turn into a murder charge or a lawsuit against the city.

So yes, hold police accountable but do not make the job intolerable or no one will do it. Support the police. Support law enforcement.
Lol at the idea that Minneapolis or Seattle police work for 'low pay' when starting pay for green recruits is near 6 figures (with insane benefits) and SPD is currently offering a $30k signing bonus.

Doesn't it ever bother you to be a lying POS?

We all know that you have no desire for law enforcement to be held accountable.
 
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akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,485
1,561
136
Police officers are some of the highest compensated jobs Zip Recruiter. It is dangerous work, so yes, they do deserve higher compensation.

I don't believe all police brutality cases are racial, at least not in urban districts, but I do believe there is a clear history of excessive force regardless of where the police department is located.

I also believe that in many states, they are not properly trained, and police departments perpetuate a "good old boys" club mentality of protecting their own, almost like a gang. Even when one officer is clearly breaking the law.

It was an eye opener when I read that in some districts, disciplinary proceedings against an officer is stopped if he resigns, and he can simply join a different police force. Then there are the officers who resign before they are formally charged, and simply move to a new police department. That is insane. On a positive note, I do see some districts make changes in record keeping to make it more transparent when an officer has resigned while being investigated.
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,679
1,251
136
Lol at the idea that Minneapolis or Seattle police work for 'low pay' when starting pay for green recruits is near 6 figures (with insane benefits) and SPD is currently offering a $30k signing bonus.

Doesn't it ever bother you to be a lying POS?

We all know that you have no desire for law enforcement to be held accountable.
According the Salary.com, the average police officer salary in Minneapolis is 66,500.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
10,358
1,577
126
The following reports appear more reliable, and roughly in-line with what Indeed.com has:


The source from the latter is a 2019 state-wide audit. Keep in mind many LEOs earn a substantial amount in overtime pay, esp. when departments everywhere are well short in manpower. The numbers can be truly eye-watering:
 
Mar 11, 2004
22,807
5,206
146
Yeah base salary is fucking meaningless, as police intentionally game overtime and pull a ton of other shenanigans (including getting paid to provide security while also being on the clock as a police officer, often OT since its outside their normal work hours; so they can effectively get paid triple their normal hourly rate). Many departments intentionally understaff so they can claim shitloads of OT, while using that a shield for why they're so shitty at doing actual policing ("we're understaffed, overworked, and underpaid!" whilst they cite base salaries that fucking no one makes).

There's also a shitload of other behavior (if people knew how much money went to police soliciting sex under the guise of investigating sex trafficking at massage parlors...) that isn't going to show up in any official compensation. Its also not uncommon for them to get free/cheap/subsidized rent, free alcohol, free food, and other shit. And that stuff is relatively above board (meaning I'm not even talking about straight up corruption like bribery and other).
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
34,574
26,887
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According the Salary.com, the average police officer salary in Minneapolis is 66,500.
Yeah but you get to confiscate another $100,000 a year from the chattel, and busting heads is another priceless perk.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
28,932
1,935
126
Lol at the idea that Minneapolis or Seattle police work for 'low pay' when starting pay for green recruits is near 6 figures (with insane benefits) and SPD is currently offering a $30k signing bonus.

Doesn't it ever bother you to be a lying POS?

We all know that you have no desire for law enforcement to be held accountable.
Lol at you selectively picking a few departments while I noted it is now a nationwide problem because of people like you who do nothing but crap on them no matter how good some of them are enforcing laws society has to make us safe against lawlessness.
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
28,932
1,935
126
Think about it. Even if you make $100,000 a year, you are going to earn every penny. Its not a job where you can sit on ass, eating snacks all day at your desk, watching Netflix while pretending to work.

People usually only call the police when a situation is out of control. You get a call and now you have to show up, immerse yourself in the situation, figure things out. Try to listen to all parties and sort things out. Hopefully everyone is calm, peaceful and cooperative.

Lots of times however people are either drunk, high on street drugs, extremely combative and uncooperative, or just assaulted or robbed someone and are now fleeing the scene. You now have to pursue them no matter how much resistance they put up. Its YOUR JOB to do this.

Even a simple traffic stop. Everyone and their sister has a gun these days. Someone decides they do not want a ticket or go to jail but would rather kill you. You walk up to the car and are now facing a hail of bullets. You are the one responsible for enforcing the law. Will you live long enough to collect even a year of salary?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,005
26,049
136
People in the community know cops are racist and treat them like garbage what do you expect? Maybe if the PD took time to for a relationship with the community things would have started to change.

Think it isn’t possible go look up the story of Camden NJ
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,044
13,801
136
Think about it. Even if you make $100,000 a year, you are going to earn every penny. Its not a job where you can sit on ass, eating snacks all day at your desk, watching Netflix while pretending to work.

People usually only call the police when a situation is out of control. You get a call and now you have to show up, immerse yourself in the situation, figure things out. Try to listen to all parties and sort things out. Hopefully everyone is calm, peaceful and cooperative.

Lots of times however people are either drunk, high on street drugs, extremely combative and uncooperative, or just assaulted or robbed someone and are now fleeing the scene. You now have to pursue them no matter how much resistance they put up. Its YOUR JOB to do this.

Even a simple traffic stop. Everyone and their sister has a gun these days. Someone decides they do not want a ticket or go to jail but would rather kill you. You walk up to the car and are now facing a hail of bullets. You are the one responsible for enforcing the law. Will you live long enough to collect even a year of salary?

Uh yeah, I'm guessing you support few if any restrictions on gun ownership or carry, right? Because you're right about that - the presence of so many guns in private hands does make policing more dangerous. So....
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
28,932
1,935
126
Uh yeah, I'm guessing you support few if any restrictions on gun ownership or carry, right? Because you're right about that - the presence of so many guns in private hands does make policing more dangerous. So....
Honestly I think there are too many guns on the street. I wish there were far less. While I personally do not own one, I dont oppose peoples right to own one and responsibly carry or better yet keep it at home.

Ive been in neighborhoods were there are so many guns people just randomly fire them off all the time. The Cowboys got a touchdown? Drink a beer and shoot a few rounds off. They won the game? Empty the clip!

New Year? Fourth of July? Keep your head down, because bullets are going off all over the place.

Granted its not always like that but it does happen.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
71,849
5,856
126
Police departments all across the country are having trouble finding recruits. The problem is society making the job of basic policing difficult.

People watch a few videos on Youtube and now they think they can turn into an expert on the road, trying their case not before a judge but in the middle of traffic, not complying with basic requests for ID and other sorts of nonsense, not rolling down their window, not giving their name, escalating a minor infraction into a deadly situation ... all while filming themselves to get some views on social media from strangers they never met. There are also people who go around deliberately antagonizing police and posting the videos on Youtube, FB, etc.

Would you want the job of enforcing laws for low pay while risking your life to help people who go bezerk when you try to confront them? And if you have to take a life in self defense, heaven help you. An accident can turn into a murder charge or a lawsuit against the city.

So yes, hold police accountable but do not make the job intolerable or no one will do it. Support the police. Support law enforcement.
My advise, worthless as I know it is, would be to relax. I think the way you see the world is right, but it is limited. As a conservative you have moral concerns that are much stronger in certain areas than is the case for liberals and respect for authority is one of them. The whole point and evolutionary benefits that the human use of language and verbal and later written communication brought to the table was to be able to transmit living experience of elders to their children, to teach them survival skills. This was such a profound evolutionary advantage to our ancestors that it lead to a genetically inheritable tendency to codify respect for elders into our culture and even our genes. People who respect authority survive and those who don't don't always survive their real life lessons.

So this innate genetic wisdom, respect for elders, respect for authority, respect for parents, respect for culture is a survival adaption to defeat Darwin, if you will.

Liberals, of course, by the same wisdom of lived experience, discovered they can be manipulated by a demand of respect. They realized that respect has to be warranted rather that being just mechanically deferential. Without liberal thinking we would all be lemmings and follow some mad man off a cliff into the sea. Liberals that reject authority out of constant experience of being told to live by terrible advise can fall prey to pooping on authority that is truly authoritative and deservedly.

So I would say appreciate the fact that you hold moral concerns of great value and try to learn from liberals who are quicker to spot fakes. In this way your moral values will not be compromised and their precision in terms of applicability will sharpen. The potential for bad police who abuse their authority does not and should not affect the fact that it's not a good idea to reject all authority. Liberals who tell you otherwise are nuts but so many of them here, that is not what they are saying. Note too, that as you fear a world that has rejected real authority and are fierce in defending it, so too are liberals terrified of a world full of lemmings. They too, out of the same feeling, actually the constriction of feeling, they too can get pretty mean. So, not the left or the right but a third way. Propaganda and ego identifications make knowing who deserves respect and who does not a difficult issue.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
22,393
12,115
136
Well, the FBI is on GQP's shit list is it not? So I guess the base, and thus those who "executes the policy", is quite indifferent with this finding.