Does the main friction in P&N come from Christian fundamentalists vs. center/left?

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

No thanks the reasons liberals aren't leaving in droves to canada like all the mainstream papers love to sensationalize about is becasue they haven't forgotten a free America

Well of course they haven't. They wake up to a free America everyday.

Don't you fret none though, steeplerot. When the Neo-cons take over the world, I will make sure they are not to rough with you, You will probably have to get a haircut, though. 😛

too bad the neocon chickenhawks couldn't take over a wet paper sack unless it's full of braindead "free" americans. :roll:

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Tommunist
let's just say what we mean here - Rip and the llikes of Rip are pretty much a with us or against us kind of group. Hell, their "religion" says that anyone who doesn't believe in the same God as they do goes to Hell. When someone is at all fanatical about this it's nearly impossible to have a real discussion/debate with them.

I am not talking about Rip here. He is the kind of poster here that EVERYONE knows where he stands. I'm talking about the more closet-type posters that attempt to shroud their arguments in rational arguments but in fact are also fundies who are less willing to reveal themselves. Again, I believe they are mor reticent about showing their true colors because they do not want to be ridiculed like Rip.

For example, someone like $$$$$$$$$$$.

edited to avoid conflict 🙂

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Tommunist
let's just say what we mean here - Rip and the llikes of Rip are pretty much a with us or against us kind of group. Hell, their "religion" says that anyone who doesn't believe in the same God as they do goes to Hell. When someone is at all fanatical about this it's nearly impossible to have a real discussion/debate with them.

I am not talking about Rip here. He is the kind of poster here that EVERYONE knows where he stands. I'm talking about the more closet-type posters that attempt to shroud their arguments in rational arguments but in fact are also fundies who are less willing to reveal themselves. Again, I believe they are mor reticent about showing their true colors because they do not want to be ridiculed like Rip.

For example, someone like CycloWizard.

omg that's a personal attack, ur gonna get banned

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Or it could be posed as: Does the main friction in P&N come from the religion haters vs religious people.

Religion isn't a left/center/right issue despite your attempts to suggest it is. I'm sure there are more than a couple Liberals here that are religious.

CsG

Neither is extra-marital sex, but the right sure took it too Clinton when he got caught with his "pants down".

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: charrison
I think you are reaching. Most of the topics here do not go into religion.

That's what I used to think too. Until I noticed a pattern.

My point is that the fundamentalists posters, whether they realize it or not are posting from a purely religious viewpoint on most topics. For example, on the surface, Iraq does not have much to do with religion, but if you look deeper most fundemantalists share the same viewpoint on Iraq. If you look at the fundy cartoons I've posted on numerous occasions you'll see topics that aren't religious covered (except the cartoons aren't afraid to make a religious connection that most posters here try to avoid). I do not think it's a coincidence that the arguments and positions set forth in those cartoons are mirrored here by many prolific posters. There are a very few counter-examples where a fundy will have a position that breaks with that of his brethren on a traditionally non-religious topic (I can think of only one in all my time here).

I think and I have seen evidence of it in many of your other postings that you break the whole of humanity down into two groups. Those who are in agreement with you and those who aren't. You were Democrats or liberals vice the other side and that was anyone who wasn't in agreement with you. Now you have switched your two sides to those who agree with you or religious fundamentalists and everyone who disagrees with you MUST be a religious nutcase. That would be true regardless of whether they actually are religious or are not. That brief analysis sort of explains your confusion.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
The ?Theophobia? of the Left makes it so there's always major argument and conflict. P&N is no different. It?s clear to me, that of all issues, the biggest prejudice that unifies all Elites (yes, there's my word again) is their hostility to religion, especially Christianity. It is THE biggest factor in the culture war.

Nothing threatens the Liberal Elites so much as Faith. Their fear manifests itself mostly as intense hostility and dismissive mockery, but as any casual observer of social issues/politics can attest to, one thing is for sure: They are obsessed with religion.

As much as any religious follower promotes his agenda, his message PALES next to the anti-religious Liberal Elite zealot. Their tirades are more numerous, more lengthy, and far more vitriolic than that of the poor family that goes to church on Sundays and feels under attack by this anti-religious mafia. (Of course the elites will always deny they are anti-religious? they think it?s tolerable- as long as it is kept private and doesn?t factor into your public life and opinions :roll: )

They can?t stand the idea that there is something greater, something more important than themselves. They can?t stand for the thought of an external framework that doesn?t allow for their personal whims and desires. Religiousness runs smack against the elite dogma. Since they believe they are the sole judges of what?s right and wrong, the elites obviously cannot coexist with a deep belief in God?.it?s all about power. Since the Liberal Elites believes the individual should decide all things -unconstrained by objective morality, obligation, responsibilities, or truth- taking the power away from them is a personal insult to their arrogance. The power-mad do not react well to a ?higher power?.

Watching the elites throw fits in public may be great entertainment, but unfortunately, their hostility to religion and the people who follow it is perhaps the great divider between the elites and average Americans. They are eager to enforce conformity to their anti-religious views. Not only have they twisted ?separation of church and state? into an ugly mutant idea, even that is insufficient. Now there must be a ?separation of church and life.?

The Dem-elites are losing their traditional populist constituency mainly because of their arrogant hostility to religion? and more importantly, their sneeringly belittling of average, decent people who don?t share their attitudes on Faith. The elite?s stereotypes, smear campaigns, and general mean-spiritedness is their own undoing. Pretty soon they'll have painted themselves into a little insignificant corner and mainstream America will barely give them a glance as they go about their business.

Liberal elites can see no power larger than themselves. Mother nature even falls short.

 

[illustri]

Originally posted by: Condor

Liberal elites can see no power larger than themselves. Mother nature even falls short.

what are you saying, libelites don't believe in god?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Commodus
it's more dangerous coming from them - too much liberalism is better than not enough.

so true.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: illustri

Originally posted by: Condor

Liberal elites can see no power larger than themselves. Mother nature even falls short.

what are you saying, libelites don't believe in god?

No power larger than themselves. If they believe in God, they aren't really libelites, just wannabees!

 

[illustri]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: illustri

Originally posted by: Condor

Liberal elites can see no power larger than themselves. Mother nature even falls short.

what are you saying, libelites don't believe in god?

No power larger than themselves. If they believe in God, they aren't really libelites, just wannabees!

and here i thought conservatives believed in self reliance and sufficiency

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Mustafa Kemal Ataturk
I'm a Catholic, I can't stand by and laugh, soon, it just might be illegal for me to believe in God.

http://www.tinmanic.com/archiv...004/06/13/no-virginia/
"On July 1, Virginia will put into effect one of the most draconian anti-gay laws in the nation. Gay marriage is already prohibited there, but the new law will even make it illegal for two same-sex people to create private wills or powers of attorney with each other. This goes beyond denigating gay couples; it denigrates the power of gay people as individuals. In infringing on the right of contract, it seems blatantly unconstitutional."

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Mustafa Kemal Ataturk
I'm a Catholic, I can't stand by and laugh, soon, it just might be illegal for me to believe in God.

http://www.tinmanic.com/archiv...004/06/13/no-virginia/
"On July 1, Virginia will put into effect one of the most draconian anti-gay laws in the nation. Gay marriage is already prohibited there, but the new law will even make it illegal for two same-sex people to create private wills or powers of attorney with each other. This goes beyond denigating gay couples; it denigrates the power of gay people as individuals. In infringing on the right of contract, it seems blatantly unconstitutional."

If you ever read the divorce laws in Virginia, you may find a little joy in that! I've had many friends that were destroyed by those laws. If marriage isn't allowed, the divorce laws can't be a problem.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: illustri

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: illustri

Originally posted by: Condor

Liberal elites can see no power larger than themselves. Mother nature even falls short.

what are you saying, libelites don't believe in god?

No power larger than themselves. If they believe in God, they aren't really libelites, just wannabees!

and here i thought conservatives believed in self reliance and sufficiency

What, the "Work like hell as you pray" stuff? All conservatives don't drum on bibles. The left just wants it to look like that now. They tried to get something provable on Bush for years and couldn't really get it done. That left them desperate. About all that they can prove that he does is go to church, so they have to try to make that evil.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: illustri

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: illustri

Originally posted by: Condor

Liberal elites can see no power larger than themselves. Mother nature even falls short.

what are you saying, libelites don't believe in god?

No power larger than themselves. If they believe in God, they aren't really libelites, just wannabees!

and here i thought conservatives believed in self reliance and sufficiency

What, the "Work like hell as you pray" stuff? All conservatives don't drum on bibles. The left just wants it to look like that now. They tried to get something provable on Bush for years and couldn't really get it done. That left them desperate. About all that they can prove that he does is go to church, so they have to try to make that evil.

uh yea, between support for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriages and his half-assed stem cell research policy, i don't think liberals are really desperate for anything in that area.

you're right, not all conservatives drum on bibles... there is bush and all his supporters who do... and the people that the GOP used to be comprised of... back when the term "conservative" applied to fiscal policy.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: charrison
I think you are reaching. Most of the topics here do not go into religion.

That's what I used to think too. Until I noticed a pattern.

My point is that the fundamentalists posters, whether they realize it or not are posting from a purely religious viewpoint on most topics. For example, on the surface, Iraq does not have much to do with religion, but if you look deeper most fundemantalists share the same viewpoint on Iraq. If you look at the fundy cartoons I've posted on numerous occasions you'll see topics that aren't religious covered (except the cartoons aren't afraid to make a religious connection that most posters here try to avoid). I do not think it's a coincidence that the arguments and positions set forth in those cartoons are mirrored here by many prolific posters. There are a very few counter-examples where a fundy will have a position that breaks with that of his brethren on a traditionally non-religious topic (I can think of only one in all my time here).

I think and I have seen evidence of it in many of your other postings that you break the whole of humanity down into two groups. Those who are in agreement with you and those who aren't. You were Democrats or liberals vice the other side and that was anyone who wasn't in agreement with you. Now you have switched your two sides to those who agree with you or religious fundamentalists and everyone who disagrees with you MUST be a religious nutcase. That would be true regardless of whether they actually are religious or are not. That brief analysis sort of explains your confusion.

how does that have anything to do with what he was saying?

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: charrison
I think you are reaching. Most of the topics here do not go into religion.

That's what I used to think too. Until I noticed a pattern.

My point is that the fundamentalists posters, whether they realize it or not are posting from a purely religious viewpoint on most topics. For example, on the surface, Iraq does not have much to do with religion, but if you look deeper most fundemantalists share the same viewpoint on Iraq. If you look at the fundy cartoons I've posted on numerous occasions you'll see topics that aren't religious covered (except the cartoons aren't afraid to make a religious connection that most posters here try to avoid). I do not think it's a coincidence that the arguments and positions set forth in those cartoons are mirrored here by many prolific posters. There are a very few counter-examples where a fundy will have a position that breaks with that of his brethren on a traditionally non-religious topic (I can think of only one in all my time here).

I think and I have seen evidence of it in many of your other postings that you break the whole of humanity down into two groups. Those who are in agreement with you and those who aren't. You were Democrats or liberals vice the other side and that was anyone who wasn't in agreement with you. Now you have switched your two sides to those who agree with you or religious fundamentalists and everyone who disagrees with you MUST be a religious nutcase. That would be true regardless of whether they actually are religious or are not. That brief analysis sort of explains your confusion.

how does that have anything to do with what he was saying?

He had broken the world down into two groups. This time it is religious nutjobs and everyone else, meaning those who agree with him. That was the gist of his post.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: charrison
I think you are reaching. Most of the topics here do not go into religion.

That's what I used to think too. Until I noticed a pattern.

My point is that the fundamentalists posters, whether they realize it or not are posting from a purely religious viewpoint on most topics. For example, on the surface, Iraq does not have much to do with religion, but if you look deeper most fundemantalists share the same viewpoint on Iraq. If you look at the fundy cartoons I've posted on numerous occasions you'll see topics that aren't religious covered (except the cartoons aren't afraid to make a religious connection that most posters here try to avoid). I do not think it's a coincidence that the arguments and positions set forth in those cartoons are mirrored here by many prolific posters. There are a very few counter-examples where a fundy will have a position that breaks with that of his brethren on a traditionally non-religious topic (I can think of only one in all my time here).

I think and I have seen evidence of it in many of your other postings that you break the whole of humanity down into two groups. Those who are in agreement with you and those who aren't. You were Democrats or liberals vice the other side and that was anyone who wasn't in agreement with you. Now you have switched your two sides to those who agree with you or religious fundamentalists and everyone who disagrees with you MUST be a religious nutcase. That would be true regardless of whether they actually are religious or are not. That brief analysis sort of explains your confusion.

how does that have anything to do with what he was saying?

He had broken the world down into two groups. This time it is religious nutjobs and everyone else, meaning those who agree with him. That was the gist of his post.

what i got from his post was that fundie posters are all getting their opinions and arguments from common sources. what does this have to do with how he breaks down the world?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Topic Title: Does the main friction in P&N come from Christian fundamentalists vs. center/left?

This should be in the "No Sh1t Sherlock" thread.

I spent a good part of the day at Church today and Mass was extra packed and extra long because the town is greiving for the loss of 6 local soldiers and family members.

But of course the Church could pass up the chance to push Politics and trying to convert "Non-Christains".

They are kicking off a Campaign to get a "Census" of all Church (Christain) going folk and have them fan out door to door to convert as many people as they can.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Mustafa Kemal Ataturk
I'm a Catholic, I can't stand by and laugh, soon, it just might be illegal for me to believe in God.

http://www.tinmanic.com/archiv...004/06/13/no-virginia/
"On July 1, Virginia will put into effect one of the most draconian anti-gay laws in the nation. Gay marriage is already prohibited there, but the new law will even make it illegal for two same-sex people to create private wills or powers of attorney with each other. This goes beyond denigating gay couples; it denigrates the power of gay people as individuals. In infringing on the right of contract, it seems blatantly unconstitutional."

If you ever read the divorce laws in Virginia, you may find a little joy in that! I've had many friends that were destroyed by those laws. If marriage isn't allowed, the divorce laws can't be a problem.

Getting back to Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's comment that soon it will be illegal to believe in God -- actually it is the religious conservatives, not liberals, who are seeking to strip individuals of fundamental rights. Religious fundamentalists represent a far greater threat to individual freedoms than do liberals. Example, this Virginian law goes beyond merely prohibiting same-sex marriage or civil unions, two people of the same gender are now legally barred from making *private* contractual arrangements with the help of a lawyer. I have no doubt religious fundamentalists would outlaw abortion if they could get away with it.

 

[Mustafa Kemal Ataturk]

Outlawing abortion would be a very good thing. In my opinion, legalized abortion means legalized murder.

That thing about the right being the tyrants, not true. Are we the thought police going around and saying, "No, you can't say black, say African-American, try to be seeensiiitive." NO. Are we the ones in control of Australia and Canada and Europe, where they have laws like:

A.In Canada, you can't say anything that will insult a homosexual, but it doesn't work the same way.

B.In Australia, due to the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act of I believe 2001, your not allowed to say that the Moslems are the enemy, not all are, but I sure know one thing. Just a few million them hate us.

NO. Are we the ones trying to nationalize healthcare and bankrupt the system?NO.

 

[Mustafa Kemal Ataturk]

Outlawing abortion would be a very good thing. In my opinion, legalized abortion means legalized murder.

That thing about the right being the tyrants, not true. Are we the thought police going around and saying, "No, you can't say black, say African-American, try to be seeensiiitive." NO. Are we the ones in control of Australia and Canada and Europe, where they have laws like:

A.In Canada, you can't say anything that will insult a homosexual, but it doesn't work the same way.

B.In Australia, due to the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act of I believe 2001, your not allowed to say that the Moslems are the enemy, not all are, but I sure know one thing. Just a few million them hate us.

NO. Are we the ones trying to nationalize healthcare and bankrupt the system?NO.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Oh, so anti-abortion=fundie. ...so you were trolling - go figure.
CsG

Not at all... nice try though.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Doubtful. I'm in friction all the time with the left here, and I'm very moderate and nothing near a christian fundamentalist. I know of about 3 posters that actively preach their religion here, and they are spotty posters at best.

Reaching, as usual, and trying to self-justify your liberal elitism.

You are no moderate. As someone pointed out, many people do like to think of themselves as moderate though. And as I've repeated several times, I'm talking about the closeted fundies, not the ones everyone knows about.

 

[slurmsmackenzie]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
It seems to me that most "debate" in P&N comes down to christian fundamentalists vs. centrists and leftists. We all know there are more leftists on P&N than right-wingers. But then why is there so much heated discussion (besides the fact it is a political forum)?

My answer is that the right is represented primarily by Christian fundamentalists on P&N who make up for their lack of numbers by being be very loud and very tenacious. At first I thought many people were simply right-wing. Now it seems to me the vast majority of the right here is Christian fundamentalist. Many are in the closet. But when now and then they'll slip by making an argument only fundies make or having a cause that only fundies have. Many long-time posters fall into this category. I suspect they are not forthright about their beliefs because many of the more open fundies tend to be ridiculed and/or ignored-- and these posters want attention.

Lately it seems to me that topics that on the surface are not religious still come down to a fundy camp and an "other" camp. The fundamentalists generally agree on something like Iraq or taxes despite their loose relationship with religion.

It's too bad because when a rare topic like licensing of doctors comes up that hasn't had a decree from the pulpit you get a variety of opinions and thoughts and almost no fundamentalism, and hence a more interesting discussion.

PS: I'm sure a fundy would love to make a similar post except replacing fundamentalists with leftists but the problem with that is that progressivism covers most topics in politics naturally, whereas religion normally should not find it's way into every single topic in politics.

hahaha.... sounds like an S. E. Hinton book.

 

[imported_tss4]

This is one of the stupidist threads I've ever read here. Escuse my sarcasm for a moment. Yes, All conservatives are bible thumping morons and all liberals are godless elitist. Is there any desire to have a constructive debate here? This the scumiest part of both parties propoganda. C'mon people use your brains.