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Does the main friction in P&N come from Christian fundamentalists vs. center/left?

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Doubtful. I'm in friction all the time with the left here, and I'm very moderate and nothing near a christian fundamentalist. I know of about 3 posters that actively preach their religion here, and they are spotty posters at best.

Reaching, as usual, and trying to self-justify your liberal elitism.
 
Lost cause huh? I guess the dozen new topics on Iraq daily are very important, while me addressing a serious problem with a certain ideology within the culture war isn't. Advice: Don't read my posts.

gopunk: It's a subtle yet important line between basing the laws on religion (ie religious scripture) and basing laws on a morality influence by our culture- religious subculture included.
 
One thing I've noticed in the fundamentalist type is the urge to setup a straw-man, like cwjerome just did. It would be unthinkable that a liberal-minded person would simply want freedom of religion - they're part of a sinister mafia, determined to stamp out religion everywhere! It's a safeguard meant to prevent them from seeing liberals as kind-hearted, rational people, however imperfect.

Are some ostensible liberals the same way? Occasionally, yes. Nothing's more annoying than an atheist who thinks that every religious person is out to censor the media and institute theocracy. But the polarization most often comes from fundamentalists, and it's more dangerous coming from them - too much liberalism is better than not enough.
 
huh jerome? you say something?
just kidding

but seriously though, I'm not

gopunk your desire for that discussion seem, if you'll forgive me, quite moot: since humans have been able to reason they have asked each other that, and if throughout the eons no progress has been sastifactorily made I doubt you or I can dispell each other's beliefs

alchemize everyone thinks they're moderate, yea they do

/not me though
//even like to shift my pe-- i'll spare you the details
 
Originally posted by: cwjerome
gopunk: It's a subtle yet important line between basing the laws on religion (ie religious scripture) and basing laws on a morality influence by our culture- religious subculture included.

i agree with you that such a line exists, but for issues like gay marriage, the only arguments against them are religious.
 
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: cwjerome
gopunk: It's a subtle yet important line between basing the laws on religion (ie religious scripture) and basing laws on a morality influence by our culture- religious subculture included.

i agree with you that such a line exists, but for issues like gay marriage, the only arguments against them are religious.

actually that line's been erased ever since pencils were invented

/get it pencils? erasers?
/ah forget it
 
Originally posted by: illustri
gopunk your desire for that discussion seem, if you'll forgive me, quite moot: since humans have been able to reason they have asked each other that, and if throughout the eons no progress has been sastifactorily made I doubt you or I can dispell each other's beliefs

one can always hope 🙂 actually i think such a day is possible... it is already possible for some people to engage in such discussions. i know i've changed my mind as a result of some conversations on this board. and if some people can do it, there is nothing to suggest that anything is fundamentally preventing everybody else from doing so.
 
Originally posted by: illustri
huh jerome? you say something?
just kidding

but seriously though, I'm not

gopunk your desire for that discussion seem, if you'll forgive me, quite moot: since humans have been able to reason they have asked each other that, and if throughout the eons no progress has been sastifactorily made I doubt you or I can dispell each other's beliefs

alchemize everyone thinks they're moderate, yea they do

/not me though
//even like to shift my pe-- i'll spare you the details

Oh I'm definitely moderate, even liberal on many social items. Only on the up and coming Democratic Underground Lite that is ATPN am I considered some kind of bible thumping right-winger. Of course, 51% of the country is considered that by most posters of this forum.
 
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Tommunist
let's just say what we mean here - Rip and the llikes of Rip are pretty much a with us or against us kind of group. Hell, their "religion" says that anyone who doesn't believe in the same God as they do goes to Hell. When someone is at all fanatical about this it's nearly impossible to have a real discussion/debate with them.

calling out forum members is a bannable offense.

That is hardly calling anybody out. Someone in another thread asked me if I ever choke on the sh1t I spew; I thought it was hilarious. You need to chill out about your Jesus homies.
 
Originally posted by: Commodus
One thing I've noticed in the fundamentalist type is the urge to setup a straw-man, like cwjerome just did. It would be unthinkable that a liberal-minded person would simply want freedom of religion - they're part of a sinister mafia, determined to stamp out religion everywhere! It's a safeguard meant to prevent them from seeing liberals as kind-hearted, rational people, however imperfect.

Are some ostensible liberals the same way? Occasionally, yes. Nothing's more annoying than an atheist who thinks that every religious person is out to censor the media and institute theocracy. But the polarization most often comes from fundamentalists, and it's more dangerous coming from them - too much liberalism is better than not enough.

Welcome to P&N :thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: illustri
huh jerome? you say something?
just kidding

but seriously though, I'm not

gopunk your desire for that discussion seem, if you'll forgive me, quite moot: since humans have been able to reason they have asked each other that, and if throughout the eons no progress has been sastifactorily made I doubt you or I can dispell each other's beliefs

alchemize everyone thinks they're moderate, yea they do

/not me though
//even like to shift my pe-- i'll spare you the details

Oh I'm definitely moderate, even liberal on many social items. Only on the up and coming Democratic Underground Lite that is ATPN and I considered some kind of bible thumping right-winger. Of course, 51% of the country is considered that by most posters of this forum.

i'm curious to hear what social items you are liberal on.
 
Commodus, YOU may think some people (like me) believe it's unthinkable that a liberal-minded person would simply want freedom of religion if it helps you sleep tight at night. Whatever floats your boat.

The fact that there are many people in this country that are just as extremist in a secular manner is off-limits... after all, by criticizing them you make all liberals look bad!! :roll:

Funny how the Left categorizes everyone to the nth degree and dwell on differences, yet they're the first and loudest to shriek "POLARIZATION!"

 
Originally posted by: alchemize

Oh I'm definitely moderate, even liberal on many social items. Only on the up and coming Democratic Underground Lite that is ATPN am I considered some kind of bible thumping right-winger. Of course, 51% of the country is considered that by most posters of this forum.

I think you could drop the lite pretty easily, I see articles & links directly from the DU posted here & the same circle jerk back slapping.

You could even call it an echo chanber...
 
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: illustri
huh jerome? you say something?
just kidding

but seriously though, I'm not

gopunk your desire for that discussion seem, if you'll forgive me, quite moot: since humans have been able to reason they have asked each other that, and if throughout the eons no progress has been sastifactorily made I doubt you or I can dispell each other's beliefs

alchemize everyone thinks they're moderate, yea they do

/not me though
//even like to shift my pe-- i'll spare you the details

Oh I'm definitely moderate, even liberal on many social items. Only on the up and coming Democratic Underground Lite that is ATPN and I considered some kind of bible thumping right-winger. Of course, 51% of the country is considered that by most posters of this forum.

i'm curious to hear what social items you are liberal on.

OK - here are a couple...

I think most drugs should be medicalized/legalized.
I'm very strong on protection of the environment.
I think our country has abandoned it's mentally ill and needs to restore many of those services.
I don't think abortion should be made illegal. Well, that's more moderate...

If you want specifics let me know, but I gotta run. It's poker tourney night! 🙂
 
Originally posted by: cwjerome
The ?Theophobia? of the Left makes it so there's always major argument and conflict. P&N is no different. It?s clear to me, that of all issues, the biggest prejudice that unifies all Elites (yes, there's my word again) is their hostility to religion, especially Christianity. It is THE biggest factor in the culture war.

Nothing threatens the Liberal Elites so much as Faith. Their fear manifests itself mostly as intense hostility and dismissive mockery, but as any casual observer of social issues/politics can attest to, one thing is for sure: They are obsessed with religion.

As much as any religious follower promotes his agenda, his message PALES next to the anti-religious Liberal Elite zealot. Their tirades are more numerous, more lengthy, and far more vitriolic than that of the poor family that goes to church on Sundays and feels under attack by this anti-religious mafia. (Of course the elites will always deny they are anti-religious? they think it?s tolerable- as long as it is kept private and doesn?t factor into your public life and opinions :roll: )

They can?t stand the idea that there is something greater, something more important than themselves. They can?t stand for the thought of an external framework that doesn?t allow for their personal whims and desires. Religiousness runs smack against the elite dogma. Since they believe they are the sole judges of what?s right and wrong, the elites obviously cannot coexist with a deep belief in God?.it?s all about power. Since the Liberal Elites believes the individual should decide all things -unconstrained by objective morality, obligation, responsibilities, or truth- taking the power away from them is a personal insult to their arrogance. The power-mad do not react well to a ?higher power?.

Watching the elites throw fits in public may be great entertainment, but unfortunately, their hostility to religion and the people who follow it is perhaps the great divider between the elites and average Americans. They are eager to enforce conformity to their anti-religious views. Not only have they twisted ?separation of church and state? into an ugly mutant idea, even that is insufficient. Now there must be a ?separation of church and life.?

The Dem-elites are losing their traditional populist constituency mainly because of their arrogant hostility to religion? and more importantly, their sneeringly belittling of average, decent people who don?t share their attitudes on Faith. The elite?s stereotypes, smear campaigns, and general mean-spiritedness is their own undoing. Pretty soon they'll have painted themselves into a little insignificant corner and mainstream America will barely give them a glance as they go about their business.

just who exactly are you talking about & how are they so powerful?
how are they a bigger threat than conservative Republican elites?
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: illustri
huh jerome? you say something?
just kidding

but seriously though, I'm not

gopunk your desire for that discussion seem, if you'll forgive me, quite moot: since humans have been able to reason they have asked each other that, and if throughout the eons no progress has been sastifactorily made I doubt you or I can dispell each other's beliefs

alchemize everyone thinks they're moderate, yea they do

/not me though
//even like to shift my pe-- i'll spare you the details

Oh I'm definitely moderate, even liberal on many social items. Only on the up and coming Democratic Underground Lite that is ATPN and I considered some kind of bible thumping right-winger. Of course, 51% of the country is considered that by most posters of this forum.

i'm curious to hear what social items you are liberal on.

OK - here are a couple...

I think most drugs should be medicalized/legalized.
I'm very strong on protection of the environment.
I think our country has abandoned it's mentally ill and needs to restore many of those services.
I don't think abortion should be made illegal. Well, that's more moderate...

If you want specifics let me know, but I gotta run. It's poker tourney night! 🙂

didn't know you were pro-choice... learn something new every day i guess 🙂 have fun
 
Originally posted by: Commodus
One thing I've noticed in the fundamentalist type is the urge to setup a straw-man, like cwjerome just did. It would be unthinkable that a liberal-minded person would simply want freedom of religion - they're part of a sinister mafia, determined to stamp out religion everywhere! It's a safeguard meant to prevent them from seeing liberals as kind-hearted, rational people, however imperfect.

Are some ostensible liberals the same way? Occasionally, yes. Nothing's more annoying than an atheist who thinks that every religious person is out to censor the media and institute theocracy. But the polarization most often comes from fundamentalists, and it's more dangerous coming from them - too much liberalism is better than not enough.

Of course it is...for liberals. 😕
 
Originally posted by: Spamela
Originally posted by: cwjerome
The ?Theophobia? of the Left makes it so there's always major argument and conflict. P&N is no different. It?s clear to me, that of all issues, the biggest prejudice that unifies all Elites (yes, there's my word again) is their hostility to religion, especially Christianity. It is THE biggest factor in the culture war.

Nothing threatens the Liberal Elites so much as Faith. Their fear manifests itself mostly as intense hostility and dismissive mockery, but as any casual observer of social issues/politics can attest to, one thing is for sure: They are obsessed with religion.

As much as any religious follower promotes his agenda, his message PALES next to the anti-religious Liberal Elite zealot. Their tirades are more numerous, more lengthy, and far more vitriolic than that of the poor family that goes to church on Sundays and feels under attack by this anti-religious mafia. (Of course the elites will always deny they are anti-religious? they think it?s tolerable- as long as it is kept private and doesn?t factor into your public life and opinions :roll: )

They can?t stand the idea that there is something greater, something more important than themselves. They can?t stand for the thought of an external framework that doesn?t allow for their personal whims and desires. Religiousness runs smack against the elite dogma. Since they believe they are the sole judges of what?s right and wrong, the elites obviously cannot coexist with a deep belief in God?.it?s all about power. Since the Liberal Elites believes the individual should decide all things -unconstrained by objective morality, obligation, responsibilities, or truth- taking the power away from them is a personal insult to their arrogance. The power-mad do not react well to a ?higher power?.

Watching the elites throw fits in public may be great entertainment, but unfortunately, their hostility to religion and the people who follow it is perhaps the great divider between the elites and average Americans. They are eager to enforce conformity to their anti-religious views. Not only have they twisted ?separation of church and state? into an ugly mutant idea, even that is insufficient. Now there must be a ?separation of church and life.?

The Dem-elites are losing their traditional populist constituency mainly because of their arrogant hostility to religion? and more importantly, their sneeringly belittling of average, decent people who don?t share their attitudes on Faith. The elite?s stereotypes, smear campaigns, and general mean-spiritedness is their own undoing. Pretty soon they'll have painted themselves into a little insignificant corner and mainstream America will barely give them a glance as they go about their business.

just who exactly are you talking about & how are they so powerful?
how are they a bigger threat than conservative Republican elites?

they're not, they don't even exist! i dunno, i think it's a christian tool to perpetuate the notion that they are under attack by these evil mean people... maybe they're trying to play on the origins of christianity and appeal to emotion.
 
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: illustri
huh jerome? you say something?
just kidding

but seriously though, I'm not

gopunk your desire for that discussion seem, if you'll forgive me, quite moot: since humans have been able to reason they have asked each other that, and if throughout the eons no progress has been sastifactorily made I doubt you or I can dispell each other's beliefs

alchemize everyone thinks they're moderate, yea they do

/not me though
//even like to shift my pe-- i'll spare you the details

Oh I'm definitely moderate, even liberal on many social items. Only on the up and coming Democratic Underground Lite that is ATPN and I considered some kind of bible thumping right-winger. Of course, 51% of the country is considered that by most posters of this forum.

i'm curious to hear what social items you are liberal on.

OK - here are a couple...

I think most drugs should be medicalized/legalized.
I'm very strong on protection of the environment.
I think our country has abandoned it's mentally ill and needs to restore many of those services.
I don't think abortion should be made illegal. Well, that's more moderate...

If you want specifics let me know, but I gotta run. It's poker tourney night! 🙂

didn't know you were pro-choice... learn something new every day i guess 🙂 have fun

I must have similar political beliefs.

I also think that drugs should be legalized, that the environment should be protected, and that abortion should not be illegal.
 
Why do ignorant folks in here claim the liberals are against Christians? I'm liberal and Christian. I think I consider myself a true Christian instead of the corporate Christians who are always trying to make a buck off the poor and ill. Most of the "Fundies" use god as a means to make money. They can talk all they want, but the only thing they are about is money.
 
Barney - There are ignorant people on both "sides", even though I don't like splitting everyone up into groups. Your problem it seems, is that you are grouping the "people who are out to make a buck off the poor and ill" and conservative-christians together.
 
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Barney - There are ignorant people on both "sides", even though I don't like splitting everyone up into groups. Your problem it seems, is that you are grouping the "people who are out to make a buck off the poor and ill" and conservative-christians together.

yea, fundies are more like the people from whom money is made off of.
 
i think its just people "knowing" that they are smarter and better than anyone that doesnt share the same views as they do. mix in a little stupidity, stubbornness, tunnel vision, and hypocrisy and bingo: P&N.

its funny because if youre really honest about it, both "sides" are guilty of the same things they accuse the other of while claiming to be "open-minded and just".

thats why i mostly lurk here. not worth the trouble to dig through all the trash to find a real discussion. its more productive to bash your skull in with a club.

in my personal view, those that disagree with the "religious" people are the nastiest and quickest to insult the others intelligence and not even begin to understand why others thinkg the way that they do.

and for the record, im not "religious".
 
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