Does racism require ones ethnicity to possess collective power

[UglyCasanova]

When you have to go to extensive lengths to explain away why the most accepted definitions of racism define it as racial prejudice based on a belief in inherent differences and superiority, you're reaching.

Desperately.

The very definition of ...ist and ...ism is the belief that something is better or preferable than the other.

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

This is the most widely accepted definition of racism. Why? Because ism denotes a belief of preference or superiority.

No such belief exists when the root cause of prejudice is fear and resentment.

Why do you keep leaving part two of the definition off?

 

[glenn1]

Hahah what are you doing? We already went over this.

The prejudice that is based on race stems from the underlying belief that all Whites are racist. Being racist is a character flaw, thus, the person would believe that all white people contain a flaw that his race does not contain.

This is amazingly simple.

Proof not in evidence. The person could just as easily believe their race is similarly racist (whether to whites or Asians) which causes your formulation to fail.

 

[realibrad]

Proof not in evidence. The person could just as easily believe their race is similarly racist (whether to whites or Asians) which causes your formulation to fail.

Been over that. Unless racism is a total weighing of all flaws in that nature, then it fits. So, if he believes Blacks do not have character flaw x, but White people do, the he is saying that in that scope his race is superior.

For your argument, Whites may have that character flaw, but Blacks also would have a character flaw, and then his hypothetical would need to be further expanded to make any sense.

 

[glenn1]

Been over that. Unless racism is a total weighing of all flaws in that nature, then it fits. So, if he believes Blacks do not have character flaw x, but White people do, the he is saying that in that scope his race is superior.

For your argument, Whites may have that character flaw, but Blacks also would have a character flaw, and then his hypothetical would need to be further expanded to make any sense.

This isn't hard, if someone believes all people are inherently racist then that belief alone does not make one racist and indeed it cannot by the correct definition.

That being said I'm fully aware the term "racism" is commonly deployed nowadays in a sloppier and more encompassing way that incorporates basically any and all types of racial prejudice or bigotry. That cheapens the word and makes it less precise but as someone else said earlier the meanings of words aren't set in stone. It will make future conversations about race a bit more difficult though as their are different gradients of bigotry that get blurred (if not erased completely) if we use "racism" as a blanket term. For example, the commonplace situation of people who won't date outside their race (either via open declaration, or in a de facto sense) isn't racism although it's clearly not benign either although even "racial prejudice" may still be too strong for that.

 

[realibrad]

This isn't hard, if someone believes all people are inherently racist then that belief alone does not make one racist and indeed it cannot by the correct definition.

His hypothetical was that a Black person believed all White people were racist, but, not that all people were racist. So he is giving a description of someone that believes his race does not have the flaw, but, at least all White people have that flaw.

So the presumption that all people are racist is not part of his hypothetical.

That being said I'm fully aware the term "racism" is commonly deployed nowadays in a sloppier and more encompassing way that incorporates basically any and all types of racial prejudice or bigotry. That cheapens the word and makes it less precise but as someone else said earlier the meanings of words aren't set in stone. It will make future conversations about race a bit more difficult though as their are different gradients of bigotry that get blurred (if not erased completely) if we use "racism" as a blanket term. For example, the commonplace situation of people who won't date outside their race (either via open declaration, or in a de facto sense) isn't racism although it's clearly not benign either although even "racial prejudice" may still be too strong for that.

The problem is that racism is always been a very large term. If you think race x is more attractive, then you are inherently saying that race is superior (subjectively) to other less attractive races. That is not how most people think of racism, but, it would fit. I think the term needs to be updated ultimately.

 

[Amused]

Hahah what are you doing? We already went over this.

The prejudice that is based on race stems from the underlying belief that all Whites are racist. Being racist is a character flaw, thus, the person would believe that all white people contain a flaw that his race does not contain.

This is amazingly simple.

Sigh. Again, thoughts and misconceptions are not inherent.

Yes it is simple, and it's amazing how you're trying to twist your way out of it.

Tell me, is it irrational prejudice to be fearful or resentful of a race who has, collectively, individually, socially and institutionally conspired to hold you down based on the color of your skin?

Stop trying to project your own shortcomings on a situation you obviously have done nothing to understand, but sweep under the rug with nonsense like this.

Again, it's literally like calling the woman who has a history of being abused and raped by men "sexist" for being weary of men.

Quite simply this: fear and resentment is NOT a belief in any INHERENT racial superiority. And it never will be, no matter how much you try to claim it is.

 

[Amused]

Why do you keep leaving part two of the definition off?

What, this?

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.​

Because it's redundant. It says the same thing. That a belief in an inherent superiority is a necessary requirement for racism.

The two requirements for racism:

1. Racial prejudice.
2. A belief your race is superior to others. (which always includes number one, but number one can exist with, or without number two).

Fear and/or resentment does not fulfill the requirement of number 2. Suffering from the PTSD of racism and being overly defensive does not fit the requirement of Number 2.

Full stop.

This conversation should have been over pages ago. But people are so unwilling to accept this simple fact.

 

[realibrad]

Sigh. Again, thoughts and misconceptions are not inherent.

Yes it is simple, and it's amazing how you're trying to twist your way out of it.

Tell me, is it irrational prejudice to be fearful or resentful of a race who has, collectively, individually, socially and institutionally conspired to hold you down based on the color of your skin?

Stop trying to project your own shortcomings on a situation you obviously have done nothing to understand, but sweep under the rug with nonsense like this.

Again, it's literally like calling the woman who has a history of being abused and raped by men "sexist" for being weary of men.

Quite simply this: fear and resentment is NOT a belief in any INHERENT racial superiority. And it never will be, no matter how much you try to claim it is.

The definition of racism is racial prejudice. Its literally the definition you have posted.

You may wish to change the definition and modernize it, but currently racial prejudice that leads someone to believe one race is superior to another is the definition.

 

[realibrad]

What, this?

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.​

Because it's redundant. It says the same thing. That a belief in an inherent superiority is a necessary requirement for racism.

The two requirements for racism:

1. Racial prejudice.
2. A belief your race is superior to others. (which always includes number one, but number one can exist with, or without number two).

Fear and/or resentment does not fulfill the requirement of number 2. Suffering from the PTSD of racism and being overly defensive does not fit the requirement of Number 2.

Full stop.

This conversation should have been over pages ago. But people are so unwilling to accept this simple fact.

No, you cannot have 1 requires number 2 to follow, and 2 stems from 1. If you believe the group has a flaw that the other group does not, then you inherently believe the other group is superior in that case. If your basis for that is racial, then you inherently have both. Its that simple.

 

[Amused]

No, you cannot have 1 requires number 2 to follow, and 2 stems from 1. If you believe the group has a flaw that the other group does not, then you inherently believe the other group is superior in that case. If your basis for that is racial, then you inherently have both. Its that simple.

I am beginning to think this is not you being willfully obtuse, but that you are actually incapable of making the distinction.

To feel fear and resentment does not require a belief in superiority. Full stop.

It never will, no matter how much you try to accuse the victims of your deeds of those very same deeds.

This is literally like blaming a rape victim of "sexism" for being weary of men because she was abused and raped.

 

[realibrad]

I am beginning to think this is not you being willfully obtuse, but that you are actually incapable of making the distinction.

To feel fear and resentment does not require a belief in superiority. Full stop.

It never will, no matter how much you try to accuse the victims of your deeds of those very same deeds.

This is literally like blaming a rape victim of "sexism" for being weary of men because she was abused and raped.

Never said fear and resentment requires that. What is relevant is that the person feels that the entire race of people has this flaw that makes them do things being worthy of fear and resentment. The problem you are having is that there are implications of positions.

1. Fear and Resentment of White people.
2. Why?.
3. Entire Race of people attack you.
4. Why do they attack you?.
5. They have a flaw that drives them to subjugate people not from their race.
6. How do you know its every member from that race?
7. Everyone from that race has treated me the same way that I have met.
8. Have you engaged with literally everyone from that race?
9. No.


You are stuck on 3 for some reason, and will not go lower.

 

[Amused]

Never said fear and resentment requires that. What is relevant is that the person feels that the entire race of people has this flaw that makes them do things being worthy of fear and resentment. The problem you are having is that there are implications of positions.

1. Fear and Resentment of White people.
2. Why?.
3. Entire Race of people attack you.
4. Why do they attack you?.
5. They have a flaw that drives them to subjugate people not from their race.
6. How do you know its every member from that race?
7. Everyone from that race has treated me the same way that I have met.
8. Have you engaged with literally everyone from that race?
9. No.


You are stuck on 3 for some reason, and will not go lower.

Sigh. Again, thoughts and prejudice are not an inherent thing. Black people assume white people have a LEARNED flaw, not an inherent flaw. And that's a safe, rational assumption. Look at how often they get shot just for being black in this society.

So: FAIL. No belief in superiority found.

Dude, give it up. This reeks of desperation.

 

[realibrad]

Sigh. Again, thoughts and prejudice are not an inherent thing. Black people assume white people have a LEARNED flaw, not an inherent flaw. And that's a safe, rational assumption. Look at how often they get shot just for being black in this society.

So: FAIL. No belief in superiority found.

Dude, give it up. This reeks of desperation.

You keep trying to wiggle away from the definition. If its all learned, and everyone has it, its inherent. It does not need to get genetically inherent, but if its universal, its inherent.

Its irrational to believe that just because many are that way all are that way. There are far more people in existence that he would not have interacted with. So, to presume everyone, including people he has not met are racist and thus flawed is irrational.

Enjoy.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Amused keeps leaving out the second part of his very own definition in his arguement for some reason. He hasn’t explained why


rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
   "a program to combat racism"
   synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
   "Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"
2. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
   noun: racism
   "theories of racism"

 

[Victorian Gray]

Amused keeps leaving out the second part of his very own definition in his arguement for some reason. He hasn’t explained why


rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
   "a program to combat racism"
   synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
   "Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"
2. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
   noun: racism
   "theories of racism"

Really?

Does racism require ones ethnicity to possess collective power

 

[UglyCasanova]

Because it's redundant. It says the same thing. That a belief in an inherent superiority is a necessary requirement for racism.

Or inferiority, like the definition you keep leaving off says. Black man says "all whites are racist" he is saying they are inferior. That’s racist.

Full stop.

 

[child of wonder]

The people tauting this “power+prejudice” definition of racism only do so to avoid coming to terms with the fact that they themselves are racist.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Absolutely. it’s an excuse to do as I say, not as I do.

 

[Jaskalas]

Racism is racial prejudice based upon a belief in one's inherent racial superiority. Therefore it is possible to have racial prejudice without being racist.

Even if I were to agree, even you apparently don't take your own words seriously on this topic. Over the past couple of days I have witnessed you casually throwing around the term racist for anything and everything that even touches the concept of racial bias. Be it prejudice, resentful, or supremacist you DO NOT take any time to distinguish which it is before you condemn all sorts of various things as racist.

You casually throw around the word racist, the same as everyone else does. Your hardcore definition in this topic can GTFO. You clearly do not even believe your own argument here.

The racism revival is going strong...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/us/hitman-black-neighbor.html

This is disgusting. The institutionalized racism in America can no longer be ignored by any person with even a double digit IQ. Anyone who continues to deny it today is themselves racist. Full stop.

This is racist as ***.

 

[Amused]

Even if I were to agree, even you apparently don't take your own words seriously on this topic. Over the past couple of days I have witnessed you casually throwing around the term racist for anything and everything that even touches the concept of racial bias. Be it prejudice, resentful, or supremacist you DO NOT take any time to distinguish which it is before you condemn all sorts of various things as racist.

You casually throw around the word racist, the same as everyone else does. Your hardcore definition in this topic can GTFO. You clearly do not even believe your own argument here.

Because, in each instance, white supremacy is involved.

Why else would Ivanka exclude all people of color (combined with her father's clear pandering to white supremacists)?

Why else would a white man want a black man lynched (not just murdered, but lynched)?

And the institutionalized racism in America is firmly rooted in the belief of racial superiority. The very name given to it "institutionalized racism" kinda gives that way.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Website that goes over all of the various definitions that surround racism

http://www.dismantlingracism.org/racism-defined.html

RACISM

• Racism = race prejudice + social and institutional power
• Racism = a system of advantage based on race
• Racism = a system of oppression based on race
• Racism = a white supremacy system

Racism is different from racial prejudice, hatred, or discrimination. Racism involves one group having the power to carry out systematic discrimination through the institutional policies and practices of the society and by shaping the cultural beliefs and values that support those racist policies and practices.


Given that, like I said before it’s simply not possible for minorities to be racist. They can theoretically exhibit race prejudice but that should be taken into the broader context of the society in which they live. What they can’t be is racist though and that’s what many whites havent come to grips with yet.

Put the crack pipe down.

 

[realibrad]

Because, in each instance, white supremacy is involved.

Why else would Ivanka exclude all people of color (combined with her father's clear pandering to white supremacists)?

Why else would a white man want a black man lynched (not just murdered, but lynched)?

And the institutionalized racism in America is firmly rooted in the belief of racial superiority. The very name given to it "institutionalized racism" kinda gives that way.

WOOSH!

 

[Amused]

WOOSH!

Glad you heard it. Maybe you'll stop missing the point.

 

[Linux23]

Jeez, you can't even sleep while being black???

 

[UglyCasanova]

Put the crack pipe down.

Was never smoking it. 😀