Does racism require ones ethnicity to possess collective power

[UglyCasanova]

The question about the real definition of racism has come up recently and particularly one school of thought that says in order to truly be racist one has to be in a position of collective power. See this thread for further details, particularly this post: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...eft-at-his-house.2545207/page-2#post-39414899

I agree with this approach.

Here is the definition of racism according to Google (not the end all be all of a definition but it’s a start)

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
   "a program to combat racism"
   synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
   "Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"
2. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
   noun: racism
   "theories of racism"

The idea that power is required isnt overtly defined there but is implied in that definition. Racism = prejudice + power. Without the element of power you don’t have racism. Many don’t want to accept it but dems the apples. The implication of it is the reality that minorities by its very definition can’t be racist since they don’t possess collective power.

That’s my $0.02, what’s your opinion. I’ll try to research and find some more examples. For the time being here’s a discussion going on a DU regarding it.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210585436#post1

 

[IronWing]

All power is local. The size of the collective needed to practice racism is one.

 

[HomerJS]

Any one individual can be racist. Any one group can be racist.

Sometimes simplicity gives the best answer. Here's Chris Rock pointing out the individual

 

[UglyCasanova]

What does that mean in this context?

 

[Capt Caveman]

Jesus Christ, you're a moron.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Care to expound? There’s plenty of us who agree with the "prejudice + power" definition of what constitutes racism.

 

[IronWing]

IMHO, power in this context simply means the power to implement one's race-based bigotry in some concrete fashion. I don't think any type of "collective" is required.

 

[Commodus]

I don't think it needs collective power, but the presence of collective power changes the dynamic at times.

A classic example: Richard Spencer types who whine that they can't celebrate white culture without being labeled racist, and complain when black culture isn't treated the same way. But here's the thing: like it or not, white culture is the "default" in the US. Celebrating it is at best a victory lap for the status quo, and at worst an implication that white culture is under attack (which is false).

When black people celebrate their culture, they're usually doing so to give it basic recognition. It's not setting out to destroy another culture, but to be included in the conversation. Would it be possible to have a racist celebration of black culture? Sure, but I can't remember the last time I saw one.

 

[UglyCasanova]

But here's the thing: like it or not, white culture is the "default" in the US.

What is white culture

 

[HomerJS]

IMHO, power in this context simply means the power to implement one's race-based bigotry in some concrete fashion. I don't think any type of "collective" is required.

like he said

 

[UglyCasanova]

IMHO, power in this context simply means the power to implement one's race-based bigotry in some concrete fashion. I don't think any type of "collective" is required.

Is that able to be done at the individual level or is a group of people required. Would a gun for instance be enough to raise ones power either through intimidation or actual force to turn an otherwise powerless minority exhibiting prejudice into one that’s actually racist? What if they are prejudice against whites who do possess social privilege and power, do the two counteract. Are both parties exhibiting racism at that point, no party, or only one?

 

[MrSquished]

What is white culture

It's everything around you for the most part.

 

[brycejones]

Good grief

 

[UglyCasanova]

I live in a predominately black area so I’m not sure that is the case.

 

[Paratus]

• Anyone of any race can be racist
• Everyone has implicit biases
• Structural or Systemic Racism requires collective power over others.

So the reason you see liberals get incensed on here when racism comes up is because we are pissed when the government and corporation who are bound by law not to discriminate, end up discriminating.

If you (royal you not you necessarily), personally wish to be a bigoted asshole that’s your business

If you wish to be a bigoted asshole and represent the government or a business who is legally bound not to be bigoted assholes then there’s a problem.

 

[UglyCasanova]

The thread I linked to in the OP doesn’t involve the government or a business though, it was a private individual scared of another private individual. I see what you are saying but I disagree though, by its very definition racism involves an element of collective power.

 

[MrSquished]

I live in a predominately black area so I’m not sure that is the case.

Turn on the tv and watch major channels, or go to a major motion picture. Go to any area with at least average or above average wealth. Look at those in power aka those in government. Check out who are the C level execs. Etc... etc....

 

[Commodus]

What is white culture

This kinda illustrates the point. Top 40 pop and rock (with exceptions, of course). Bland sitcoms. Oktoberfest. Golf. Donald Trump. Most Christian denominations in the US. Basically, a lot of the media you consume, the politicians that run the country, and the cultural traditions are dominated by white culture. You ask the question because white culture is so pervasive in the US that it's hard to pinpoint any one thing.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Fair point. So how would you define black culture?

 

[UglyCasanova]

Website that goes over all of the various definitions that surround racism

http://www.dismantlingracism.org/racism-defined.html

RACISM

• Racism = race prejudice + social and institutional power
• Racism = a system of advantage based on race
• Racism = a system of oppression based on race
• Racism = a white supremacy system

Racism is different from racial prejudice, hatred, or discrimination. Racism involves one group having the power to carry out systematic discrimination through the institutional policies and practices of the society and by shaping the cultural beliefs and values that support those racist policies and practices.


Given that, like I said before it’s simply not possible for minorities to be racist. They can theoretically exhibit race prejudice but that should be taken into the broader context of the society in which they live. What they can’t be is racist though and that’s what many whites havent come to grips with yet.

 

[Commodus]

Fair point. So how would you define black culture?

Black culture is many things, but there's definitely things you can point out. Hip-hop, rap, blues, R&B, jazz. Baptist churches. Novelists like Toni Morrison or Ralph Ellison. Thinkers like Ta-Nehisi Coates. They're not necessarily marginalized, certainly not in an era when hip-hop often dominates the charts, but they do tend to be compartmentalized.

One reason why I like Childish Gambino's music video for "This is America" is that it touches directly on this. The US approves of black people so long as they're putting on a song and dance routine, but turns away from them (or actively chases them away) when they complain about violence.

 

[Amused]

Racism simply means one's own personal belief that their race is superior to others.

Power and/or collective thinking (appeal to popularity) may compound this, add to it, or create it. But it is not inherently necessary. All that is necessary is an belief in an inherent racial superiority.

Now, if a minority victim of racism harbors resentment to the race that has victimized him, that would not be racism. There is no such thing as "reverse racism." Only resentment of racism.

 

[UglyCasanova]

That’s your point of view but it’s certainly not shared by all. There’s many who define it as I said above, a combination of power and racial prejudice. What you described is merely racial prejudice, without power to back it up it’s not racism. Hence why minorities can’t be racist.

 

[MrSquished]

Black culture is many things, but there's definitely things you can point out. Hip-hop, rap, blues, R&B, jazz. Baptist churches. Novelists like Toni Morrison or Ralph Ellison. Thinkers like Ta-Nehisi Coates. They're not necessarily marginalized, certainly not in an era when hip-hop often dominates the charts, but they do tend to be compartmentalized.

One reason why I like Childish Gambino's music video for "This is America" is that it touches directly on this. The US approves of black people so long as they're putting on a song and dance routine, but turns away from them (or actively chases them away) when they complain about violence.

brilliant

 

[glenn1]

That’s your point of view but it’s certainly not shared by all. There’s many who define it as I said above, a combination of power and racial prejudice. What you described is merely racial prejudice, without power to back it up it’s not racism. Hence why minorities can’t be racist.

More like why you don’t understand how to look up the definition of common words and choose to simply substitute your own definition.

In reality land racial prejudice has a meaning; namely ascribing a trait (typically negative but not always) to be universally applicable to someone based strictly on their membership in a class. “All Hispanics are drug dealers” or “Indians all poop outside in fields.”

Racism has a different meaning that incorporates an untruthful value judgement of the inferiority of another group, “Blacks have low IQs”. Notice how this is different from a truthful factual statement about the differences between groups, like “in the U.S. blacks commit homicide at per capita rates several times higher than whites.” Racism is a subset of prejudice.

If you’re honestly going to say something that is obviously racist (like Malcolm X saying “the white man is the devil”) isn’t racist because he lacked “power to back it up” then you’re simply deliberately obtuse, wrong, and trying too hard to avoid making an obvious and honest declaration of racism. People who gloss over racism and excuse it away because of who utters it are a particularly detestable kind of coward.