Does desktop CPU power consumption matter to you?

[2is]

Electricity itself cannot be saved, but electricity does not magically appear from nowhere. Electricity is produced by burning fuel, and using less electricity means less fuel is used and the fuel can be saved for the future.

It's shocking how often I've heard on this forum recently that electricity is a use it or lose it proposition. I suppose if we were trying to harness the power form a lightening bolt this may be true to some extent. As you pointed out, the power going into our homes and offices is being produced somewhere up the line. The less we use, the less needs to be produced, the fewer resources are being used up, the smaller our carbon footprint becomes.

 

[bononos]

Yes, Europe's better planning on a large scale has really given them a competitive advantage in world markets. I'm sure they 'planned' on recovering more slowly than America.

My only real point here is that if you want to talk about this stuff, go to P&N. And buy a fire retardant suit before you go

And I'm sure you realised that practically all the gains when the economy was doing so well was snapped up by the top 1%.

 

[Galatian]

Yes, Europe's better planning on a large scale has really given them a competitive advantage in world markets. I'm sure they 'planned' on recovering more slowly than America.

My only real point here is that if you want to talk about this stuff, go to P&N. And buy a fire retardant suit before you go

I'll bite: recovering from what slower?

 

[Durvelle27]

nooooooooooo

 

[Dinkydau]

I care only about money. The CPU + fans + electricity combination that gives me the best performance for my money is what I buy.

 

[UaVaj]

Not to mention, "if everyone" went out and bought a new computer to save a few W of electricity, the waste trash from old computers and the wasted gas driving to the store and/or waste used to transport the new computer to the persons home would all dwarf the tiny electricity savings. How much power do you think is wasted in manufacturing and shipping a PC? Multiply that by "everyone", since you think everyone needs to run out and upgrade. Not so green anymore, is it?

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

that is the whole picture. sadly most only see their small picture.

 

[2is]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

that is the whole picture. sadly most only see their small picture.

That's not the whole picture unless you lack even basic common sense. You don't go out and buy a new computer just to save a few watts, its when you ARE ready for a new machine, you buy the more efficient one. The sad part is such basic concepts like this need to be explained.

There's zero "extra" waste since you'd have bought a new computer anyway.

 

[UaVaj]

That's not the whole picture unless you lack even basic common sense. You don't go out and buy a new computer just to save a few watts, its when you ARE ready for a new machine, you buy the more efficient one. The sad part is such basic concepts like this need to be explained.

There's zero "extra" waste since you'd have bought a new computer anyway.

saldy that is rarely the case. how many of you actually upgrade when you need to, have to?

most upgrade when the latest and greatest is avaialble. i.e. titan. no body needs a titan. unless you want one. or two. or four. :biggrin:

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better example. the smartphone market. no body need a quad core phone. yet they selling like hot cakes.

 

[2is]

I didn't say "have" to, I said "ready" to, meaning no matter how you look at it, you WILL be getting a new machine, its at that point you make a decision to buy the more efficient one. No one is suggesting everyone go out buy a more efficient setup for the sole purpose of saving a few watts as was claimed by Chiro. That would be retarded.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yes, Europe's better planning on a large scale has really given them a competitive advantage in world markets. I'm sure they 'planned' on recovering more slowly than America.

My only real point here is that if you want to talk about this stuff, go to P&N. And buy a fire retardant suit before you go

The eurozone got a trade surplus. Consider that.

American companies are barely competitive today. And energy consumption is one of the key reasons.

 

[jihe]

Honestly, if my fan isn't noisy, and if I can get a good, stable overclock, power consumption on the desktop doesn't matter *too* much. How about for you guys? Are there any real reasons that you prefer lower power consumption (electric bill, perhaps? Does it even make a real difference when you're running a gaming desktop?)

I always figured that perf/watt was much more of a notebook thing.

I must admit the old P4 really pissed me off back in the days.

 

[Revolution 11]

The eurozone got a trade surplus. Consider that.

American companies are barely competitive today. And energy consumption is one of the key reasons.

I am all for lower energy consumption and I do believe that Americans are wasteful users of energy.

But you will have to show some research or proof of what you are saying. The trade surplus has very little to do with energy usage. And where does it say that American companies are not competitive. If anything, our companies are very competitive in the global economy. (Labor may be another thing altogether)

 

[sm625]

It doesnt matter enough to scrap a a sandy bridge or even a clarkdale in favor of an ivy bridge. But I really want to get rid of the Q6600 that is still sucking power for 6+ hours a day.

 

[Idontcare]

It doesnt matter enough to scrap a a sandy bridge or even a clarkdale in favor of an ivy bridge. But I really want to get rid of the Q6600 that is still sucking power for 6+ hours a day.

There are two perspectives with which to approach energy efficiency.

There is the dollar-conscientious perspective (do I, or how can I, save money?) and then there is the environmentally-conscientious perspective (can I reduce my environmental footprint?).

The "save money" marketing hook is just a tool that pro-environmentalists leverage in order to motivate the non-environmentalists to align their habits and activities with those that the pro-environmentalists desire.

Nothing wrong with that, that is how (and why) capitalism works. That is where socialism fails as it doesn't capture the motivation of the individual in its efforts to benefit the community.

You must find what motivates the individual, and then leverage it in a way that magnifies the secondary benefits to your own liking as well.

I voluntarily pay a premium for my electricity as it is 100% wind-generated. I don't have to do that, my mailbox is hit with offers on a weekly basis by fossil-fuel based electricity providers to which I could switch and save roughly 30% on my power bills.

In that case clearly my desire to be pro-environmentalist outweighs my desire to be pro-pocketbook.

But not everyone is like that, and for the segment of the population that is more pro-pocketbook and less pro-environmental they are told to convert to CFL's or LEDs because it will save them money. And it does, so they do.

But being pro-environmental does not mean you are anti-pocketbook or anti-power consumption. It simply means you seek a different balance point when you factor in your individual preferences and consumption habits.

Replacing a Q6600 might not make investment sense, if money is your motivation in life. But it might make environmental sense provided you've accurately captured the entire expected environmental footprint (cradle-to-grave) for your Q6600 versus that of the CPU you are considering as its replacement.

This is where it is easy to be pro-environmentalist but get things drastically wrong because the businesses from which you are buying your products are not pro-environmentalist, they are pro-pocketbook. The CFL manufacturer is not pro-environmental; they are seeding the world with little vials of mercury one bulb at a time. Not very environmentally-conscientious, but they know they can make a buck doing it so they do it.

Likewise with semiconductor chips. The manufacturing of these products has an immense environmental footprint. Truly staggering. But that fact is not well publicized because it is in absolutely no one's financial interests to publicize such information.

It is very hard to concoct a scenario in which the pro-environmentalist can argue "the ends justify the means" when it comes to their own personal use of pretty much any semiconductor-based device versus that of a traditional lifestyle of their ancestors 200-300 yrs prior. I know my computer usage is not "pro-environmental" but that doesn't mean I have to throw out all efforts to conserve and become anti-environmental either.

Just means I seek a balance that is less anti-environmental, and that is better than nothing.

 

[Haserath]

Overall consumption matters.

My main priority would be saving money, but I'd like to minimize my impact with the minimal amount of total energy use.

I do what I want to do, but I optimize it the best I can.

Edit: And I think they should tax electricity up past $.35 to push more friendly use of electricity. They can deduct from other taxes to make up for this.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

I don't mind a quiet single gpu overclocked setup that draws 1000 watts when maxed out.

 

[UaVaj]

I voluntarily pay a premium for my electricity as it is 100% wind-generated. I don't have to do that, my mailbox is hit with offers on a weekly basis by fossil-fuel based electricity providers to which I could switch and save roughly 30% on my power bills.

In that case clearly my desire to be pro-environmentalist outweighs my desire to be pro-pocketbook.

gotta love marketing at its finest.

granted you are getting some wind electric. however where do you think you get your power during peak times. right from the fossil-fuel electric folks. you connect to the wind electric who connects to the fossel-fuel electric.

unless you have a wind meter to telling which electric you are "actually" getting. all bets are off.

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at the end of the day. if it make you feel green getting some wind electric and paying 30% more. definitely more power to you.

 

[Homeles]

Nothing wrong with that, that is how (and why) capitalism works. That is where socialism fails as it doesn't capture the motivation of the individual in its efforts to benefit the community.

There are other ways to provide incentive besides capital...

 

[ShintaiDK]

Nordic energymap, if anyone is interested. Including production types and current price:
http://driftsdata.statnett.no/snps/

And the classic danish grid and production type:
http://energinet.dk/Flash/Forside/UK/index.html

 

[ShintaiDK]

gotta love marketing at its finest.

granted you are getting some wind electric. however where do you think you get your power during peak times. right from the fossil-fuel electric folks. you connect to the wind electric who connects to the fossel-fuel electric.

unless you have a wind meter to telling which electric you are "actually" getting. all bets are off.

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at the end of the day. if it make you feel green getting some wind electric and paying 30% more. definitely more power to you.

I buy windpower too. And while its somewhat right what you say. It still demands that the company get more wind energy into its power mix. So if a company sells 500MW of windpower to consumers, it also produce atleast 500MW of windpower.

 

[Galatian]

gotta love marketing at its finest.

granted you are getting some wind electric. however where do you think you get your power during peak times. right from the fossil-fuel electric folks. you connect to the wind electric who connects to the fossel-fuel electric.

unless you have a wind meter to telling which electric you are "actually" getting. all bets are off.

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at the end of the day. if it make you feel green getting some wind electric and paying 30% more. definitely more power to you.

That's not the point at all: if one purchases "green electricity" the power company is required (at least here in Germany) to actually produce said energy with the energy mix they advertise.
For example I live in Berlin and have 100% water energy. Of course this sounds stupid, as water energy is not close at all and the electricity I'm actually getting was probably "created" in a coal plant.
A the end of the day the energy I consume has to be produced by water by my power company. That's what I pay for. Just because I don't get the energy that has been "created" by a water plant literally to my home doesn't mean that my money isn't used to produce the equivalent of my usage in 100% water energy.

And this is where the wallet speaks. If consumers demand greener energy and pay accordingly more and more greener power solutions will be built. Of course there is always the question about peak load. Here in Germany we have a huge price premium this year because we are trying to become as green as possible, hence we need a completely new infrastructure to level the load with green energy loads and subsidies for solar companies.

Also the Eurozone has a surplus...the US does not. The US mostly purchase from China but sends little back. In fact China is the biggest loaner of the US, which has put the US in a very awkward position. Last time I checked the financial crisis of late was an US made problem (subprime loans anybody?) and the Eurozone Crisis has been a result of said crisis (banks investing in said credits had to be bailed out, leading to huge state debts). You can't talk about both without one another. Also last time I checked the US is literally broke. I think your government had to cut down a lot of expenses and kill jobs...not sure who is talking about "the US got quicker through the crisis"? You are still in the middle of it! Your news outlet might make you believe that Greece and Cypress are in bad shape, but as a matter of fact, the US is still in a far worse condition.

Now this is also extremely off-topic, but I'm reading all this nonsense about how much worse the Eurozone is compared to the US in a lot of forums lately and it makes me wonder exactly what kind of propaganda FOX news and the like are spreading over there?

 

[UaVaj]

galatian

thanks for verifying marketing at its finest.

 

[Homeles]

galatian

thanks for verifying marketing at its finest.

Thanks for not posting anything constructive.

 

[Haserath]

The US isn't in trouble. They just have to raise the debt ceiling to infinity and beyond.

 

[blckgrffn]

The US isn't in trouble. They just have to raise the debt ceiling to infinity and beyond.

I read that to myself in Buzz Lightyears voice. Awesome.

FWIW, I think IDC has it right with his take on how we approach this issue. I lean more "pro-pocket book" than "pro-environmental" but that doesn't mean I am 100% one way or the other. I buy LED bulbs and justify them by the lifetime savings, but I really like the idea that they are also "helping" (hoping the manufacturing by-products are offset by the longevity) the environment quite a bit. That definitely softens the blow when I drop $100 on bulbs at Home Depot and lets me whistle on the way to the car.

Maybe the "cost today" vs the "cost tomorrow" debate muddies it some, but lets face it - I'll gladly stereotype here and say that humans are largely an opportunistic race that will take easy today and hard tomorrow vs the other way around. Especially when it comes to intangible items. Group us together into companies or governments and this trait is exacerbated.

It seems to me that the balance you strike is much like a political affiliation - you can choose to make it divisive or not.