Does anyone in here seriously eat healthy?

[jamison]

For anyone that thinks it is wrong to eat meat, humans are omnivores, we are physically designed to eat meat -and- plants, all in moderation.

 

[Juniper]

I eat so UNHEALTHY!


Even though I know that I should cut out on the junk food, I cant help myself eating em. Im not used to cooking, and whenever I cook, I go for very wholesome kinda meals like lots of meat and sauces and pasta stuff. My cupboard is stuffed with Oreo cookies, and my fridge has half a dozen of burgers ready to be fried and eaten with bread.

 

[weezergirl]

<< For anyone that thinks it is wrong to eat meat, humans are omnivores, we are physically designed to eat meat -and- plants, all in moderation. >>



We also have a brain that allows us to choose and we can survive without eating meat. What's your point?

<--- not a vegetarian but has nothing against it (my mom's one tho!)

 

[Entity]

Here you go:

http://www.usdoctor.com/bodyfat.htm

Gymnast average: 5%.

I'll look for more, but I have to work on another paper right now.

In terms of my previous BFP; I can offer no more conclusive evidence than I have already done. You can believe what you wish, and you obviously will. I may be mistaken in estimating 4%. This conclusion came at from a number of methods, but none of these would be accepted as scientifically sound, and I would imagine that my margin for error was 2-3%. That still leaves my statement, IMO, to be true: I was close to 4%. If you want to take semantic issue with the definition of "close," be my guest; I won't join you on this one, though.

There are a number of Gymnasts who have been measured at the 4% level, and a number of other athletes that have as well. If I can find these figures in the near future, I will post them for you; unfortunately, I'd have to say that I would expect you to ignore them.

It's been fun, but unfortunately unproductive. All involved seem to have lost track of the original issue(s), and have gone back to their original beliefs. I do believe, though, that my original points still stand, uncontended: active individuals don't need 300-400g of protein daily, or for that matter, even 1/4 of that. Vegetarians, just like any other aspect of the population, can be healthy; they, just like everyone else, have to be responsible for what they eat, and have some basic understanding of health. Finally: it is not "almost impossible" to find protein for a vegetarian.

Rob

Regardless, hasn't this argument strayed a bit?

 

[woodly6]

No I dont eat healthy, not at all, not even close!

 

[Entity]

<< Oh and by the "you couldn't care less" >>



For the record, this isn't even close to a complete sentence.

Rob

 

[weezergirl]

<< Here you go:

http://www.usdoctor.com/bodyfat.htm

Gymnast average: 5%.

I'll look for more, but I have to work on another paper right now.

In terms of my previous BFP; I can offer no more conclusive evidence than I have already done. You can believe what you wish, and you obviously will. I may be mistaken in estimating 4%. This conclusion came at from a number of methods, but none of these would be accepted as scientifically sound, and I would imagine that my margin for error was 2-3%. That still leaves my statement, IMO, to be true: I was close to 4%. If you want to take semantic issue with the definition of "close," be my guest; I won't join you on this one, though.

There are a number of Gymnasts who have been measured at the 4% level, and a number of other athletes that have as well. If I can find these figures in the near future, I will post them for you; unfortunately, I'd have to say that I would expect you to ignore them.

It's been fun, but unfortunately unproductive. All involved seem to have lost track of the original issue(s), and have gone back to their original beliefs. I do believe, though, that my original points still stand, uncontended: active individuals don't need 300-400g of protein daily, or for that matter, even 1/4 of that. Vegetarians, just like any other aspect of the population, can be healthy; they, just like everyone else, have to be responsible for what they eat, and have some basic understanding of health. Finally: it is not "almost impossible" to find protein for a vegetarian.

Rob

Regardless, hasn't this argument strayed a bit? >>



I believe you! my bf had 4% body fat while he was playing soccer here at our school. this was measured by his coach. OF course i'm sure duffman won't believe that either until he gets a chance to personally measure it himself

 

[Looney]

rib structure will account for a nearly 200% difference in body weight when they are substantially shorter then humans? Your statements are absolutely laughable.

LOL and your statements are any better? I have still yet to read your explanation on acetycholine and how it can only be properly fueled by a meat diet.

Secondly, you have made a huge error in your shift of scope. First you talk gorillas and then you talk chimpanzees.

Actually i didn't start the claims on gorillas... perhaps you should follow the thread more closely.

One is a hominid where the other is not. Again, millions of years of seperation of lineage.

Which is and which isn't the hominid?

And it is quite funny. See that book on the page you have referred to "Demonic males"? Have you read it? Cause I have. Tell you what, you bone up on your bonobo behavior, and then we'll talk.

And what does behaviorism have to do with this thread?

 

[DuffmanOhYeah]

<< Here you go:

http://www.usdoctor.com/bodyfat.htm

Gymnast average: 5%.

I'll look for more, but I have to work on another paper right now.

In terms of my previous BFP; I can offer no more conclusive evidence than I have already done. You can believe what you wish, and you obviously will. I may be mistaken in estimating 4%. This conclusion came at from a number of methods, but none of these would be accepted as scientifically sound, and I would imagine that my margin for error was 2-3%. That still leaves my statement, IMO, to be true: I was close to 4%. If you want to take semantic issue with the definition of "close," be my guest; I won't join you on this one, though.

There are a number of Gymnasts who have been measured at the 4% level, and a number of other athletes that have as well. If I can find these figures in the near future, I will post them for you; unfortunately, I'd have to say that I would expect you to ignore them.

It's been fun, but unfortunately unproductive. All involved seem to have lost track of the original issue(s), and have gone back to their original beliefs. I do believe, though, that my original points still stand, uncontended: active individuals don't need 300-400g of protein daily, or for that matter, even 1/4 of that. Vegetarians, just like any other aspect of the population, can be healthy; they, just like everyone else, have to be responsible for what they eat, and have some basic understanding of health. Finally: it is not "almost impossible" to find protein for a vegetarian.

Rob

Regardless, hasn't this argument strayed a bit? >>


Yes the argument certainly has strayed a bit. And I take issue with the site you have chosen. VERY professional looking. Did he go Hollywood Upstairs Medical College too? Look, join the circles of hardcore weightlifting and bodybuilding and you will understand why you are wrong. I do concede that there may be some gymnasts and elite athletes that have bodyfat compositions in the 5% range, but those are few and far between. It is very difficult to achieve those levels without A: the proper genetics, and B: drugs. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
I concur with your statement that 300-400 grams of protein is excessive for the normal individual and all but the MOST active of individuals. I do not believe that I ever argued otherwise. Nor is it "almost impossible" for a vegetarian to find protein. It IS however, a bit more difficult. This difficulty only increases when one becomes a vegan.
I can reasonably believe that you came back from your trip at 7%bf. That is not out of the question. However, once you start to drop belew that level, the body puts into effect protevtive mechanisms to keep you from losing more. One these is catabolic in nature. If your body has to burn muscle rather than deplete what it thinks it needs to keep in the way of fat stores, it will do so.

To sum the ORIGINAL point of this thread, I was arguing that it was not UNHEALTHY to eat meat as the original poster said it was.

 

[Jfur]

<<
I believe you! my bf had 4% body fat while he was playing soccer here at our school. this was measured by his coach. OF course i'm sure duffman won't believe that either until he gets a chance to personally measure it himself >>



Any skeptics may also like to meet my brother, who is the most lean and ripped person I have EVER seen. When he sits, there is still no flab *at all* on his belly and he is completely defined. I doubt I could even get a body fat caliper around him. His does martial arts and skateboarding for exercise (but a LOT of both). If he is more than 4-5% bodyfat, I will eat a live cockroach!

 

[DuffmanOhYeah]

<< LOL and your statements are any better? I have still yet to read your explanation on acetycholine and how it can only be properly fueled by a meat diet. >>


Never once did I say that this can only be fueled by an only meat diet. I stated that it is necessary to intake proper levels of dietary fat to act as its precursor



<< Secondly, you have made a huge error in your shift of scope. First you talk gorillas and then you talk chimpanzees >>


Regardless of whether or not you started talk about gorillas, you did pick up the argument, which puts you smack in the middle. Ill even be so kind as to point out where. I said:

<< Ah yes, they eat grasses and such. Pound for pound they have a lot more hair than we do too. Also must be the roughage content. That's why so many vegetarians are jacked and hairy. Your logic is spurious to the Nth degree. They are VERY different than we are. In fact, they are SO different that they constitute an entirely different species. Shocker huh? I don't know how to ask this nicely, so here goes: Please stop being ignorant >>

in response to Mltsao's claims that since gorillas are healthy eating grass, so should we. Then you said:

<< I think you're the ignorant there buddy. Just because they're a different species doesn't mean their systems are different from ours. Infact, they're more common than dissimilar to us. Ever wonder why chimps are used in medical research? >>

in response to my gorilla similarity statement, putting you right smack dab in the middle of it.





<< Which is and which isn't the hominid? >>


A chimpanzee is a hominid, as are humans, gorillas are not



<< And it is quite funny. See that book on the page you have referred to "Demonic males"? Have you read it? Cause I have. Tell you what, you bone up on your bonobo behavior, and then we'll talk. >>




<< And what does behaviorism have to do with this thread? >>


It just points to your blatant ignorance on the subject. The site you used was apparently very keen on this book, and you used it blindly as a reference. I stated that if you had read the book which he illustrated, you would have an idea about bonobo behavior, and therefore be at least SOMEWHAT educated on the evolutionary divergances of humanoid species. But, apparently, you are not.

 

[Jerboy]

"- don't or rarely eat meat"

I eat meat almost EVERYDAY!

"- drinks some sort of vegetable/fruit juice combination for breakfast"
Je voudrais un coke s'il vous pla&icirc;t


"- eat salad"

hardly ever. Only when someone force me to.(guess who in general push a 17y/o to eat some salad)

"- eat organic fruits, vegetables, nuts, herbs, ect."

I eat the aforementioned food and they all contain carbon, therefore in terms of organic chemistry, I am eating organic.

"don't eat or rarely eat any type of fried/oily/refined sugar foods/drinks"

at a drive thru -Yes bitch, i want a double half-pounder with mega size french fries and mega size 7up please-

"- drinks some sort of natural protein drink (nutmilk)"

nope

"- skin brushes"

wat do u mean?

"- doesn't eat canned/bleached food"

I don't really like canned crap and I eat wheat bread.


"- and most importantly doesnt do any sort of drug (yes, any drugs)"

does caffeine from 3 cans of soda a day constitutes as drug?

 

[Entity]

<< Yes the argument certainly has strayed a bit. And I take issue with the site you have chosen. VERY professional looking. Did he go Hollywood Upstairs Medical College too? Look, join the circles of hardcore weightlifting and bodybuilding and you will understand why you are wrong. I do concede that there may be some gymnasts and elite athletes that have bodyfat compositions in the 5% range, but those are few and far between. It is very difficult to achieve those levels without A: the proper genetics, and B: drugs. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
I concur with your statement that 300-400 grams of protein is excessive for the normal individual and all but the MOST active of individuals. I do not believe that I ever argued otherwise. Nor is it "almost impossible" for a vegetarian to find protein. It IS however, a bit more difficult. This difficulty only increases when one becomes a vegan.
I can reasonably believe that you came back from your trip at 7%bf. That is not out of the question. However, once you start to drop belew that level, the body puts into effect protevtive mechanisms to keep you from losing more. One these is catabolic in nature. If your body has to burn muscle rather than deplete what it thinks it needs to keep in the way of fat stores, it will do so.

To sum the ORIGINAL point of this thread, I was arguing that it was not UNHEALTHY to eat meat as the original poster said it was. >>



Ok, I'm sick of this. You are a skeptic, and that is fine. Rather than discrediting material that we have provided, would you mind providing some of your own?

Rob

 

[Looney]

It just points to your blatant ignorance on the subject. The site you used was apparently very keen on this book, and you used it blindly as a reference. I stated that if you had read the book which he illustrated, you would have an idea about bonobo behavior, and therefore be at least SOMEWHAT educated on the evolutionary divergances of humanoid species. But, apparently, you are not

LOLOL oh please, and what have you posted except to say 'have you read the book yet'? From the last couple of posts, it doesn't sound like you've read it either. Enlighten me on how reading the book will further your stance on the anatomical differences between gorillas and humans?

And yeah, it was blindly used as a reference... but it at least it is a reference. Only thing you've done is spout whatever is coming out of your ass at the moment.

 

[Nefrodite]

"- skin brushes"

wat do u mean?

fap fap fap fap -> protien!

 

[DuffmanOhYeah]

Absolutely. This is Lee Priest, a well known competitor in the bodybuilding community. He typically comes in to cometeition at between 4% and 4.5% bodyfat. Do you look like that? Note the vascularity in the lats and the ability to count each finger in the serratus anterior and external oblique. Now if you can provide me with a picture of yourself or someone else who looks comparable or LEANER, I would very much like to see. His % is pretty much a known. And when you measure % of elite athletes, neither submersion or caliper testing is very accutate. They are calibrated for "average" humans and do not give accurate results. To get accuracy, these tests must be calibrated specifically to YOUR body in terms of weight, height and density. ONLY then can you hope to achieve an accurate measure at these elite levels.

 

[Entity]

Duffman,

Once again, you miss the mark entirely. Judging by photography entirely is inherently unreliable, no? So yes, I can take your word - and I have - that Lee Priest has 4 - 4.5BFP. Fine. You, however, have discredited my claims - that many athletes have similar percentages - without providing any proof, whatsoever - you merely attack the validity of mine. I could do the same with yours, but I won't; I trust that Lee Priest is, as you claim, that percentage. What I want is this: some sort of conclusive evidence that proves that other athletes are not able to have, and do not have, the same BFP. I'm asking you to prove a negative, because you refused to accept the evidence I posted earlier of Gymnasts having a 5% average.

In terms of muscle size, no, I was nothing near Lee Priest, nor would I ever have the desire to be so; however, in terms of overall lean mass, I would say that I was very close. Can I offer you any evidence, photographically or otherwise, of that? Nope. Why not? Well, to be honest, I don't pose, muscles flexed, shirtless, in front of cameras while I'm hiking very often. Odd, huh?

Rob

 

[weezergirl]

ugh, guys with muscles that big scare me.

 

[Jfur]

<< ugh, guys with muscles that big scare me.

>>



me, too and all those veins popping out don't really do much for me either

 

[DuffmanOhYeah]

Ok, I am extremely tired, so this will be my last post for the evening. Try hereand you see that they claim that

<< estimated minimal level of bodyfat compatible with health is 5% for males >>

with levels for extreme athletes ranging under 6%, however not under the 5% mark, so we can assume that they generally refer to a level between 5% and 6%. This is possible, but again, once this level is breached, the body does employ protective measures to safeguard against any further losses, making it EXTREMELY difficult to do so. That is why I am so dubious about claims of 5-6% and lower in the general population. More often than not, neither the requisite genetics or drugs are present, let alone both in combination.

 

[Fastball]

<< I believe you! my bf had 4% body fat while he was playing soccer here at our school. this was measured by his coach. OF course i'm sure duffman won't believe that either until he gets a chance to personally measure it himself >>



OMFG! You people are idiots if you think you know someone that walks around daily with 4% bodyfat. Champion bodybuilders occassionally reach 4% on the day of competition with the help of drugs and growth hormone. I don't think that there has ever been anyone in history of mankind to maintain 4% bf naturally. If someone tells you that their bf% is this low, call them a liar. Most people have no clue as to how to measure it accurately either.

Take a look at my photo on the first page of this thread. I'm at 10% bf in this picture.

When a human's bf% drops down into single digits, you can visually see a huge difference for every percentage point that it drops. (i.e. the difference between 9% and 10% is huge -- visually) And it is even more magnified when you get down around 6 and 7%.

When people start spouting off claims of 5% bf and what not, they usually have no clue what they are talking about. Notice I said "usually" b/c there are a some people who understand bf%, but it's not something that the "average Joe" seems to understand.