Does anybody have more than this?

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Can someone explain that to me? This is the second attempted Kerry joke that he totally botched.

Why are you so much more preoccupied with Kerry's fluffed words than your idiot President's fluffed war and venile attacks on the U.S. Constitution?

• Did anything in either of Kerry's statements kill 3,000 American troops and wound tens of thousands more?
  
• Did anything he said gut the Constitutionally guaranteed right of those arrested to know the charges against them or to have access to legal counsel?
  
• Did anything he said order Federal law enforcement agents to spy on our phone conversations and e-mail?

Can you explain this to me? If not, please stop posting until you have an answer for those questions.

Why is the person who always accuses me of trying to change the subject now trying to change the subject? Does this hit a little to close to home for your liking?

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: senseamp
National Review doesn't accept Kerry's apology? Color me shocked.
Really at this point, after Kerry apologized, Repugs come out looking cynical if they keep beating this dead horse.

George Allen apologized, and the Dems never let him off the hook.
Trent Lott apologized for a joke at a birthday party and he had to resign.
Seems like when a Democrat screw up you are so ready to accept any apology, but when a Republican screws up you never let it go.

Did you accept George Allen's apology?

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Also I have to say that so far there is a vote going on at


http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

on the left pane of the page it ask...

Do you believe John Kerry owes our troops in Iraq an apology?

Statistics so far.....32% YES and 68% NO
This is out of 25902 votes

So I guess a lot of people (more then double) feel kerry shouldn't say sorry about anything. I wouldn't go this far but most likely a vast majority of that 68% feel he was right. But for whatever reason if they didn't like kerry they would not have voted no.

I think this points out that alot of people would consider it an attack on their own intelligence if they were to buy into the right wing hysteria over a misspoken message.

I mean, only an unintelligent person would STILL be offended by Kerry's statement, knowing of course that it was all an accident.

if you think it wasn't an accident? well, you would be sipping the funny kool-aid then wouldn'tcha! Tin foil anyone?

 

[ProfJohn]

More Democratic comment on what Kerry said
Hillary Clinton: ?What Sen. Kerry said was inappropriate,?
Murtha: "he needs to explain what he was trying to do"

And then Imus talking to Kerry: "please stop it. Stop talking. Go home, get on the bike. Go windsurfing, anything, stop it, your going to ruin this."

He can apologize all he wants, the damage is done.

The guy George Allen 'insulted' accepted his apology, good enough for me.

 

[ProfJohn]

A really good look at this Kerry flap by Robert Novak. Well written and thought out. Althought a little long
One thing that strikes me. The whole day of apology where Kerry blew up and went after Rush and Tony Snow. Reminded me of the Clinton blow up on Fox. The whole point of the apology and Clinton blow up was to put certain questions to bed, but what happened was the opposite effect.
Also, the first Kerry apology is Kerry's 'Dean scream' moment for 2008. After the Dean scream it was over for Dean, and I think it is now over for Kerry in 2008.
And now Novak link I bolded the two parts that show you why so many of us on the right really believe that Kerry meant the soldiers and not the President.

1. Kerry, addressing a crowd of Democrats in California on the topic of education, tied in the Iraq War by bringing up the long-standing complaint by some on the left that the military preys upon poor and uneducated youths in their recruitment. "You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq." That is a slightly meaner version of what several Democratic members of Congress have been saying for years.

2. Republicans were delighted when the remarks came to light and drew somber rebukes from the White House and from several Republican politicians, especially Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.). It was shaping up as a motivator for a disillusioned Republican base, when Kerry issued an angrily written statement, apparently hastily written, aimed at "right-wing nut jobs" who were criticizing him.

3. In sum, Kerry said something he shouldn't have (nothing an apology could not have mended), but then gave his strident response to the criticism, which may have dealt a blow to Democrats and a death-blow to Kerry's political future. Kerry's extremely angry, aggressive follow-up presentation was so lacking in contrition that he made matters worse. As House Majority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) put it in a television interview, "He'd better apologize, or we're gonna beat him to death over this one."

4. Kerry still believes that his failure to respond quickly and aggressively to the attacks on his military record in 2004 cost him the presidency. He has taken so much grief from Democrats over his failure to stand up for himself and for liberal ideas that he felt the need to act decisively yesterday. That is what brought on his extremely ill-considered behavior.

5. Kerry's explanation -- that his original comment was meant as a jab at President Bush -- was lost in a sea of angry anti-Bush rhetoric. The explanation also falls flat because his remarks are so clearly in line with accepted left-wing positions. If Kerry's fear was that Republicans would divert attention away from a failed Iraq policy, he managed only to give extra life to the news story that will indeed divert it. Whatever the truth at the heart of it all, the story going into the final week of the election is about John Kerry, who insulted the troops, refused to apologize, and erupted in a defiant televised speech.

6. How much damage will this cause Democrats? It unquestionably knocks them off their message, and it may even poison the well with respect to remarks critical of the Iraq War. Kerry's angry denial that he would ever speak ill of the troops brings back memories from 2004 -- specifically his 35-year-old testimony that his comrades in Vietnam were murderers and rapists. More immediately, Democratic candidates all over the country will now be asked whether Kerry owes an apology, which is a no-win proposition no matter how it is answered.

7. But the real damage will come in the form of increased Republican base turnout. Their old boogeyman has returned from the dead. What could be more effective in motivating disillusioned conservatives to vote next week than the sight of a defiant John Kerry insulting the troops and angrily refusing to apologize? We are told that the ads are already being cut and the mailers printed as we write. The effect will remain unknown until next week.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
More Democratic comment on what Kerry said
Hillary Clinton: ?What Sen. Kerry said was inappropriate,?
Murtha: "he needs to explain what he was trying to do"

And then Imus talking to Kerry: "please stop it. Stop talking. Go home, get on the bike. Go windsurfing, anything, stop it, your going to ruin this."

He can apologize all he wants, the damage is done.

The guy George Allen 'insulted' accepted his apology, good enough for me.

One little problem. Both Kerry and Allen put foot in their mouth.
And if both would be in trouble if they were both in competitive senate races.
But the problem for you is that only Allen is in a competitive senate race, while Kerry is not up for election at all.
So in the real world DEMS:1 GOP:0. You lose.

 

[Jeff7]

Got The Daily Show on now. They showed what Kerry had planned to say. Apparently he just seriously botched the joke when telling it.

What it was supposed to be:
"Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."



Edit: Hm, I see this was mentioned. I shall sift through the remainder of this thread tomorrow.

 

[Googer]

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Googer/abrahamlincolnie5.jpg

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
More Democratic comment on what Kerry said
Hillary Clinton: ?What Sen. Kerry said was inappropriate,?
Murtha: "he needs to explain what he was trying to do"

And then Imus talking to Kerry: "please stop it. Stop talking. Go home, get on the bike. Go windsurfing, anything, stop it, your going to ruin this."

He can apologize all he wants, the damage is done.

The guy George Allen 'insulted' accepted his apology, good enough for me.

One little problem. Both Kerry and Allen put foot in their mouth.
And if both would be in trouble if they were both in competitive senate races.
But the problem for you is that only Allen is in a competitive senate race, while Kerry is not up for election at all.
So in the real world DEMS:1 GOP:0. You lose.

no in the real world its republicans 198452572475278 Dems--0
With people like Kerry representing the Democratic party its a sure thing another Republican will be in Office in 2008...Muahahaa

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
More Democratic comment on what Kerry said
Hillary Clinton: ?What Sen. Kerry said was inappropriate,?
Murtha: "he needs to explain what he was trying to do"

And then Imus talking to Kerry: "please stop it. Stop talking. Go home, get on the bike. Go windsurfing, anything, stop it, your going to ruin this."

He can apologize all he wants, the damage is done.

The guy George Allen 'insulted' accepted his apology, good enough for me.

One little problem. Both Kerry and Allen put foot in their mouth.
And if both would be in trouble if they were both in competitive senate races.
But the problem for you is that only Allen is in a competitive senate race, while Kerry is not up for election at all.
So in the real world DEMS:1 GOP:0. You lose.

no in the real world its republicans 198452572475278 Dems--0
With people like Kerry representing the Democratic party its a sure thing another Republican will be in Office in 2008...Muahahaa

Well, that's why Dems used this opportunity to throw Kerry under the bus so he won't be representing them in 2008. This has been good for dems for 2008. One, Kerry is a goner, two, McCain is now firmly a Bush shill in eyes of moderates, so it'll hurt him in 2008 general election.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Palehorsey wants to see Academic Degrees as a measure of comprehension.... amazing.. Folks with Street Smarts from The Sidewalk University have more smarts than I do on issues of Common Sense... It seems the more Academia one ingests the more myopic they become. Fixed on one stream of thought often overlooking what bolder is about to roll them over...

actually it wasn't me who brought up degrees as a measure of prowess. There was some Elitist dude here who decided to throw his University-peen around. He called our enlisted military "stupid," and then questioned my own level of education. So I took that opportunity to slap him a few times with my own University-peen, and he shut up. I don't normally mention my degrees or reference my scholastic achievements in any form or fashion. AFAIC, they are all secondary to my RL experiences and common sense (my street cred..lol). So guess what, you and I actually agree, regardless of your patronizing "palehorsey" comment. go figure!

A term of endearment, I assure you..

A palehorse is too 'Revelation' like for me to use... Death..

You see.... it all depends on what I meant ... not what your read... just like Kerry's remarks.. When not in his mind you nor I can know what he was thinking or intending to imply.. We may infer.. correctly or not.. but only he can imply in this situation..

But yes.. I know how the Education theme started and we both know how irrelevant it should be.. both here in AT and in Iraq..

Now.. my comment on education... and war... (not everyone fits this but alot do)
IF one seeks to avoid the reality of war look to the folks who do serve.. by and large they join up in the enlisted ranks as an alternative to what they have in front of them otherwise. You see folks often Join to GET and education in some specific field often..... and then leave to persue it... or go to Iraq for a bit first...
Being in the National Guard is not the same as being enlisted in the USMC, Army or Navy and even the Air Force... They are Citizen Soldiers as I see it.. Not really expecting to go to war.. but there if needed... Commissioned Officers get there via ROTC committments or maybe even Join to do their bit.. or like the enlisted folks .. can't find a job.
Some folks join because they think it is what furthers their compelling desire to be a Marine or a Green Beret or what have you... Some folks want to be CEO's and others Gunnery Sgt..
But at the end of the day... A full rich education had by an individual will enable them to pay the taxes to fund the military instead of being in it.. This is what I infer from Kerry's remarks... and linked with the fact that Bush has us there adds to the downside of it all...
Remember One tiny thing... Who was his live audience.. students?... well... makes sense to me what he said and the context of it all..


Edit: 10/15/63 - 10/15/69 ... during that time I was in the Service... Kerry's mind is still back in that era when the draft took folks NOT in School or married or in Canada... It took the poor and the uneducated by and large while the rich and educated protested hehehehe along with those soon to be Drafted... This is a different era.. but the Military today is a place to Learn a trade more so than when I was in.. excepting the more technical aspects which are much more so now than then... Kerry is not fully into 2006.. IMO.. His passion still burns from the era of his youth.. as we all are greatly impacted by the significance of "OUR WAR".... and "YOUR WAR" ... they are not the same but ironically we seems to be in them by the same device.... an Agenda wagging the dog..

 

[yhelothar]

Why the heck is this still on the headlines of every god damned news source? Kerry was absolutely right about republicans shifting the focus from the real issues to these non-issues.

 

[Craig234]

Answered your own question. It's a demonstration of the republicans' media power to dominate the agenda.

Bush did not take nearly the hit for 'bring 'em on' or other errors; ones worse than this got virtually no attention.

Gore invented the Internet. Howard Dean screamed. Kerry lied about his medals. Ever notice how able they are to use that media noise machine they have to damage great leaders? The only one recently who has escaped their attempts is Bill Clinton, but they still hurt him a lot, with the absurb witch hunts, and even the 'revenge for Nixon' impeachment.

The good news is, the country is still turning against them a lot. This might still turn out to be an example of their inabilty to really push the issue to get votes. Like Terry Schiavo, it could instead show how unprincipled they are.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Why the heck is this still on the headlines of every god damned news source? Kerry was absolutely right about republicans shifting the focus from the real issues to these non-issues.

Damn that liberal media! Always defending Kerry and barely giving any air time to the party in control of the WH, House, and Senate.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: senseamp
National Review doesn't accept Kerry's apology? Color me shocked.
Really at this point, after Kerry apologized, Repugs come out looking cynical if they keep beating this dead horse.

I don't think at all that Kerry really meant it as a botched joke. This is BS, at the time he said that everybody understood what he meant. He was refering to the troops in Iraq. The fact that he's saying it's a botched joke is just some excuse he made up just so that he has an excuse now. Unfortunatley though people will listen to this.....

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: senseamp
National Review doesn't accept Kerry's apology? Color me shocked.
Really at this point, after Kerry apologized, Repugs come out looking cynical if they keep beating this dead horse.

I don't think at all that Kerry really meant it as a botched joke. This is BS, at the time he said that everybody understood what he meant. He was refering to the troops in Iraq. The fact that he's saying it's a botched joke is just some excuse he made up just so that he has an excuse now. Unfortunatley though people will listen to this.....

Are you moronic enough to believe that a Politician with aspirations for higher office would say such a thing meaning to demean our soldiers? Well obviously you are.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: senseamp
National Review doesn't accept Kerry's apology? Color me shocked.
Really at this point, after Kerry apologized, Repugs come out looking cynical if they keep beating this dead horse.

I don't think at all that Kerry really meant it as a botched joke. This is BS, at the time he said that everybody understood what he meant. He was refering to the troops in Iraq.

wait, did you just flip sides and say that it was the troops he was originally referring to? Did someone hijack your account here? Because that is the opposite of what you said 20 times in this thread...

/confused

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
More Democratic comment on what Kerry said
Hillary Clinton: ?What Sen. Kerry said was inappropriate,?
Murtha: "he needs to explain what he was trying to do"

And then Imus talking to Kerry: "please stop it. Stop talking. Go home, get on the bike. Go windsurfing, anything, stop it, your going to ruin this."

He can apologize all he wants, the damage is done.

The guy George Allen 'insulted' accepted his apology, good enough for me.

One little problem. Both Kerry and Allen put foot in their mouth.
And if both would be in trouble if they were both in competitive senate races.
But the problem for you is that only Allen is in a competitive senate race, while Kerry is not up for election at all.
So in the real world DEMS:1 GOP:0. You lose.

no in the real world its republicans 198452572475278 Dems--0
With people like Kerry representing the Democratic party its a sure thing another Republican will be in Office in 2008...Muahahaa

Well, that's why Dems used this opportunity to throw Kerry under the bus so he won't be representing them in 2008. This has been good for dems for 2008. One, Kerry is a goner, two, McCain is now firmly a Bush shill in eyes of moderates, so it'll hurt him in 2008 general election.

I concur. Glad to see the nail in Kerry's coffin driven home finally. I e-mailed him months ago, admonishing him to step aside. But nooooo, he wouldn't listen....

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: senseamp
National Review doesn't accept Kerry's apology? Color me shocked.
Really at this point, after Kerry apologized, Repugs come out looking cynical if they keep beating this dead horse.

I don't think at all that Kerry really meant it as a botched joke. This is BS, at the time he said that everybody understood what he meant. He was refering to the troops in Iraq. The fact that he's saying it's a botched joke is just some excuse he made up just so that he has an excuse now. Unfortunatley though people will listen to this.....

Are you moronic enough to believe that a Politician with aspirations for higher office would say such a thing meaning to demean our soldiers? Well obviously you are.

Not only that, but the Republicans think that the troops are dumb enought to believe that too, which is the real insult to their intelligence.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Can someone explain that to me? This is the second attempted Kerry joke that he totally botched.

Why are you so much more preoccupied with Kerry's fluffed words than your idiot President's fluffed war and venile attacks on the U.S. Constitution?

• Did anything in either of Kerry's statements kill 3,000 American troops and wound tens of thousands more?
  
• Did anything he said gut the Constitutionally guaranteed right of those arrested to know the charges against them or to have access to legal counsel?
  
• Did anything he said order Federal law enforcement agents to spy on our phone conversations and e-mail?

Can you explain this to me? If not, please stop posting until you have an answer for those questions.

Why is the person who always accuses me of trying to change the subject now trying to change the subject? Does this hit a little to close to home for your liking?

He's not trying to change the subject, just pointing out your hypocrisy. On page one of this thread, you stated...

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
There should be hell to pay for that comment.

So, you'd like to see Kerry held strongly accountable for this statement, yet, I have not seen you ask for accountability from anyone in this administration. Kerry would not have made the statement if Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld didn't have 150,000 of our troops in Iraq for no apparent reason.

 

[overclock]

Let the troops speak for themselves on this one...

 

[Ferocious]

Except for Foxnews, this now non-story seems to be dying down now.

Foxnews will stretch it out as long as possible though.

 

[cruzer]

Originally posted by: Googer
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Googer/abrahamlincolnie5.jpg

:thumbsup:

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: PrevaricatorJohn
Why is the person who always accuses me of trying to change the subject now trying to change the subject? Does this hit a little to close to home for your liking?

The subject is the meaning and relevance of Kerry's words and their significance in the context of an election that's less than a week away.

Since Kerry's gaff, Republicans from top to bottom, including Bush and Cheney, have been parroting their spin machine's pathetic cries of false indignation directly at Kerry almost word for word. That makes the comparison between the significance of their words and Kerry's a valid point in the discussion, especially when the sources of those other words come from the party's leader and Commando In Chief.

Kerry's words offended some because, taken out of the context of his entire speech, they could taken as insulting to American troops. In the context of a series of jabs at Bush in a political speech, it's pretty obvious that was not Kerry's intended meaning. At his Whitehouse briefing, even Bush's mouthpiece, Tony Snow, grudgingly acknowledged that neither he nor Bush were convinced Kerry intended to insult American troops:

Q Does the President actually believe that Senator Kerry intended to criticize the troops?

MR. SNOW: I don't know. Intention or not, as you've seen it, when you say things publicly, you've got to answer for them.

However, that hasn't stopped Republican hacks like you from continuing to inflate the matter with their own hot air, and it brings us back to my questions about the meaning, the intent, and most important, the actual consequenses of Bush's words:

• Did anything in either of Kerry's statements kill 3,000 American troops and wound tens of thousands more?
  
• Did anything he said gut the Constitutionally guaranteed right of those arrested to know the charges against them or to have access to legal counsel?
  
• Did anything he said order Federal law enforcement agents to spy on our phone conversations and e-mail?

It also brings us back to my question to you:

• Why are you so much more preoccupied with Kerry's fluffed words than your idiot President's fluffed war and venile attacks on the U.S. Constitution?

So now, I'll again ask you to explain this to us. If you can't, I'll ask you again to stop posting until you have an answer for those questions. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

Originally posted by: PrevaricatorJohn
George Allen apologized, and the Dems never let him off the hook.

It still gets back to intent and consequenses. Kerry is a decorated veteran who has championed veterans' rights and issues for decades while Allen has a documented history of continued use of racial slurs over a similar number of years. What do their words and actions over a long period of time tell you about both of them?

Yesterday, at a campaign speech, Allen staffers phyically attacked a questioner they didn't like to the ground. Allen's staff promptly blamed their own brutality on his opponent's campaign. Does this get Allen off your hook? :roll:

I'll also ask you the question you asked me -- Does this hit a little too close to home for your liking? :shocked:

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: senseamp
National Review doesn't accept Kerry's apology? Color me shocked.
Really at this point, after Kerry apologized, Repugs come out looking cynical if they keep beating this dead horse.

I don't think at all that Kerry really meant it as a botched joke. This is BS, at the time he said that everybody understood what he meant. He was refering to the troops in Iraq. The fact that he's saying it's a botched joke is just some excuse he made up just so that he has an excuse now. Unfortunatley though people will listen to this.....

Are you moronic enough to believe that a Politician with aspirations for higher office would say such a thing meaning to demean our soldiers? Well obviously you are.

:laugh: