Does anybody have more than this?

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy


That's the deal though... so long as the focus is on Kerry it won't be on Iraq. Kerry has to go first. They have a shot here... If they can get up on the shows and, in unison, state what Kerry was trying to say while playing down his actual words they migh tbe able to turn it around. But they have to do it carefully so as not to look like spinning apologists... that's the trap.

I disagree. I think focus on Kerry's speech is focus on Iraq, because after all is said and done, it's about Kerry's criticizm of Bush on Iraq, which people agree with.

You're right that Kerry attempted to go after Bush but as long as Kerry is there his words are there. And you can try to say what he really meant to say but those words are still hanging there.

So the Dems can spend the week defending the boob or they can throw him under the bus, take a step sideways and push forward with what Kerry was clumsily trying to get at from a better starting point. Otherwise it's just another Dan Quayle potatoE, Dean scream, $87 billion, rockefeller finger moment that derails the message.

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: xenolith

Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

How dare you say that our troops are all homosexual. You can't take it back unless you apologize.

No, you can't defend yourself by saying that you didn't say that, that your words were misinterpreted, because you clearly did say it, so you can only apologize.

Not so fun having the bizaro logic aimed in your direction, is it?

Spoken words mean something.

Not to you, apparently, since you refuse to accept what they mean and make things up.

Now I make things up, wow, just wow. What did I make up?

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: DonVito

You're the one who bolded it. The reason I brought it up is that IMO Kerry, a decorated combat veteran, has earned a little more benefit of the doubt when it comes to interpreting his remark than someone like Cheney, yet my guess is that you'd give Cheney more slack than Kerry. Perhaps I'm wrong, and you're free to correct me.

Ah, go back and read the thread again. You brought up Cheney. And I give Cheney no slack. I do not like the way post-war Iraq has been handled for one.

Now can we get back on topic?

Jesus - talk about the pot calling the kettle black. If you have to continue this silly debate (you're the one whining about getting back on topic), at least read what I post before you respond. I brought up Cheney for, IMO, a legitimate rhetorical purpose. And, to make the circle complete, no, I don't think I'm a partisan hack, and yes, I think you're willfully misreading Kerry's remark because you don't like his politics.

Fine! I'm a partisan hack and your not and I'm just whining to myself. Got it... done!

When did Don call you a hack? xenolith - no one is going to get anywhere with knee-jerk reactions...

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: xenolith

Now I make things up, wow, just wow. What did I make up?

You made up Kerry insulting the troops.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

You're right that Kerry attempted to go after Bush but as long as Kerry is there his words are there. And you can try to say what he really meant to say but those words are still hanging there.

So the Dems can spend the week defending the boob or they can throw him under the bus, take a step sideways and push forward with what Kerry was clumsily trying to get at from a better starting point. Otherwise it's just another Dan Quayle potatoE, Dean scream, $87 billion, rockefeller finger moment that derails the message.

You're not wrong, but I do think it's a bit of a tell as to the weakness of the core of the Republican platform that they have to make such a huge production out of this kind of thing. I don't ever, even once, recall Kerry making fun of any of Bush's endless stream of malapropisms, or asking him to apologize for them. Rove and company are definitely clever at figuring out how to play the public, though, and I don't doubt they'll find a way to blow his remarks far, far out of proportion. In that respect Kerry's angry response plays into their hand IMO.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: xenolith

Fine! I'm a partisan hack and your not and I'm just whining to myself. Got it... done!

When did Don call you a hack? xenolith - no one is going to get anywhere with knee-jerk reactions...

I did in fact call him one, just to be clear, and he implied I was one as well. I am as guilty as he of starting this round of bickering.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: thepd7
McCain asked for the apology, he pretty much called McCain a hack who has never served, which would be wrong.

Obviously Kerry did no such thing if you care about accuracy at all.

He was referring to Bush and other adminstration officials, and suggest that McCain had been received by them about what he had said.

I see that Kerry's PR folk are working overtime to supply you with answers (excuses) as well!

lol... some of the leftists in this thread alone have stooped to calling our troops "idiots" and "stupid"... is it really a "stretch" of the imagination to believe that Kerry said the same? I think not.

Kerry stepped in it, and nothing he says or does will clean the sh*t off his shoes.

GL with that!

Originally posted by: DonVitoI don't love what Kerry said, simply because it lends itself to being misunderstood, but this is a man with a significant military record, even if you believe the Swift Boat Vets for Truth

He has been disrespecting soldiers since the minute he came home from Vietnam... hell, it even started before that when he falsified his own medal recommendations!

Kerry is a total douchebag and he respresents the Democratic Party perfectly.

 

[UberNeuman]

ah, I see, sorry xenolith... I don't agree with your viewpoint, but I did jump the gun...

/bad Don, slaps hand... bad...

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: xenolith

Now I make things up, wow, just wow. What did I make up?

You made up Kerry insulting the troops.

Again, I simply posted facts, then gave my opinion he (unintentionally or not) did so.

Now, how does that equal making things up?

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: thepd7
McCain asked for the apology, he pretty much called McCain a hack who has never served, which would be wrong.

Obviously Kerry did no such thing if you care about accuracy at all.

He was referring to Bush and other adminstration officials, and suggest that McCain had been received by them about what he had said.

I see that Kerry's PR folk are working overtime to supply you with answers (excuses) as well!

lol... some of the leftists in this thread alone have stooped to calling our troops "idiots" and "stupid"... is it really a "stretch" of the imagination to believe that Kerry said the same? I think not.

Our troops would have to be stupid to go around in Vietnam raping women and mass-murdering and all of those things he accused the military of in the '70s, right?

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy


That's the deal though... so long as the focus is on Kerry it won't be on Iraq. Kerry has to go first. They have a shot here... If they can get up on the shows and, in unison, state what Kerry was trying to say while playing down his actual words they migh tbe able to turn it around. But they have to do it carefully so as not to look like spinning apologists... that's the trap.

I disagree. I think focus on Kerry's speech is focus on Iraq, because after all is said and done, it's about Kerry's criticizm of Bush on Iraq, which people agree with.

You're right that Kerry attempted to go after Bush but as long as Kerry is there his words are there. And you can try to say what he really meant to say but those words are still hanging there.

So the Dems can spend the week defending the boob or they can throw him under the bus, take a step sideways and push forward with what Kerry was clumsily trying to get at from a better starting point. Otherwise it's just another Dan Quayle potatoE, Dean scream, $87 billion, rockefeller finger moment that derails the message.

I am not so sure, because the Kerry story also keeps Bush and Iraq in the spotlight for this election. Dems want this to be a referendum on Bush and Iraq, and the Kerry controversy is helping nationalize this election. I don't think they should simply cower away from controversy. They need to figure out a way to use this publicity to turn in on the Republicans. Maybe Kerry should do an "apology"/ Bush bashing news conference tomorrow.
I gotta give you credit though, you nailed it in the Webb-Allen thread.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

You're right that Kerry attempted to go after Bush but as long as Kerry is there his words are there. And you can try to say what he really meant to say but those words are still hanging there.

So the Dems can spend the week defending the boob or they can throw him under the bus, take a step sideways and push forward with what Kerry was clumsily trying to get at from a better starting point. Otherwise it's just another Dan Quayle potatoE, Dean scream, $87 billion, rockefeller finger moment that derails the message.

You're not wrong, but I do think it's a bit of a tell as to the weakness of the core of the Republican platform that they have to make such a huge production out of this kind of thing. I don't ever, even once, recall Kerry making fun of any of Bush's endless stream of malapropisms, or asking him to apologize for them. Rove and company are definitely clever at figuring out how to play the public, though, and I don't doubt they'll find a way to blow his remarks far, far out of proportion. In that respect Kerry's angry response plays into their hand IMO.

Oh yeah... about a zillion posts ago I made that point. Kerry is going to bury himself on this one. And Rove and the gang will happily help him accomplish his task.

LOL @ weakness... You can say it. "Total lack of" is more appropriate. The Republican party has no core. And this flub from Kerry is like mana from heaven for them. Rove and Company won't even have to break a sweat to flip this one to their advantage.

Kerry couldn't have done this at a worse time.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Oh yeah... about a zillion posts ago I made that point. Kerry is going to bury himself on this one. And Rove and the gang will happily help him accomplish his task.

LOL @ weakness... You can say it. "Total lack of" is more appropriate. The Republican party has no core. And this flub from Kerry is like mana from heaven for them. Rove and Company won't even have to break a sweat to flip this one to their advantage.

Kerry couldn't have done this at a worse time.

At the end of the day, though, the election is still a series of individual races, and I don't see this having much if any effect on most of them. It will take a much larger October Surprise than that to stem the tide of dissatisfaction with the Republicans this year. It might be time to let Osama out of his "extraordinary rendition"!

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: thepd7
McCain asked for the apology, he pretty much called McCain a hack who has never served, which would be wrong.

Obviously Kerry did no such thing if you care about accuracy at all.

He was referring to Bush and other adminstration officials, and suggest that McCain had been received by them about what he had said.

I see that Kerry's PR folk are working overtime to supply you with answers (excuses) as well!

lol... some of the leftists in this thread alone have stooped to calling our troops "idiots" and "stupid"... is it really a "stretch" of the imagination to believe that Kerry said the same? I think not.

Kerry stepped in it, and nothing he says or does will clean the sh*t off his shoes.

GL with that!

Originally posted by: DonVitoI don't love what Kerry said, simply because it lends itself to being misunderstood, but this is a man with a significant military record, even if you believe the Swift Boat Vets for Truth

He has been disrespecting soldiers since the minute he came home from Vietnam... hell, it even started before that when he falsified his own medal recommendations!

Kerry is a total douchebag and he respresents the Democratic Party perfectly.

You know, you sound sort of...how shall I put this...elitist when you talk like that, which is virtually every single one of your posts. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for WARRANTED elitism, the hard-on the Republicans seem to have for belittling anybody who knows something is one of the more irritating aspects of this "new right". But since you endlessly bitch about "elitists" your "I'm better than you" noise in every single one of your posts is a little odd.

As for "falsifying his medal recommendations", that's been pretty conclusively proven to be a load of crap. And frankly I'm a little surprised, are you soldiers so quick to turn on one of your own just because you disagree with his politics? That's pretty low if you ask me, damn sure I wouldn't want to fight with anybody who'd do that. And while we're on the topic, how many medals have YOU won? Clearly you are some kind of authority on the topic of heroism in wars that you didn't fight in or have anything to do with...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

You're right that Kerry attempted to go after Bush but as long as Kerry is there his words are there. And you can try to say what he really meant to say but those words are still hanging there.

So the Dems can spend the week defending the boob or they can throw him under the bus, take a step sideways and push forward with what Kerry was clumsily trying to get at from a better starting point. Otherwise it's just another Dan Quayle potatoE, Dean scream, $87 billion, rockefeller finger moment that derails the message.

You're not wrong, but I do think it's a bit of a tell as to the weakness of the core of the Republican platform that they have to make such a huge production out of this kind of thing. I don't ever, even once, recall Kerry making fun of any of Bush's endless stream of malapropisms, or asking him to apologize for them. Rove and company are definitely clever at figuring out how to play the public, though, and I don't doubt they'll find a way to blow his remarks far, far out of proportion. In that respect Kerry's angry response plays into their hand IMO.

I'm not sure I agree. Don't get me wrong, I think the ranting and raving about stuff like this highlights the weakness of the Republican party perfectly, but I disagree that it shows how weak the core of their platform is...this IS the core of their platform. For all their noise about the Dems being the party without any ideas, it's really the Republicans that deserve that title. They are a one trick pony, and that trick is to slime the Democrats for every possible reason, real or imagined, at every conceivable opportunity.

Look at this campaign. The Republicans are painting it about a vote between "ideas" and "no ideas", yet the only Republican "idea" that I've seen so far is that it's a virtual certainty that if you vote for a Democrat, you and your family will be killed. And that's not me reading between the lines, that is actually their platform. Perhaps not in those EXACT words, but close enough. I'm sorry, but a party with ideas doesn't run a campaign like that.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Our troops would have to be stupid to go around in Vietnam raping women and mass-murdering and all of those things he accused the military of in the '70s, right?

Do you defend the ones that did?

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Our troops would have to be stupid to go around in Vietnam raping women and mass-murdering and all of those things he accused the military of in the '70s, right?

Do you defend the ones that did?

Perhaps if I were making "bad jokes" about the President, then I'd feel obligated to answer that, right?

Nice attempt at a disctraction from the point of the thread, though.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
For all their noise about the Dems being the party without any ideas, it's really the Republicans that deserve that title.

I think both parties can fit that description

They are a one trick pony, and that trick is to slime the Democrats for every possible reason, real or imagined, at every conceivable opportunity.

Once again, I think you can apply that description to both parties.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: thepd7
McCain asked for the apology, he pretty much called McCain a hack who has never served, which would be wrong.

Obviously Kerry did no such thing if you care about accuracy at all.

He was referring to Bush and other adminstration officials, and suggest that McCain had been received by them about what he had said.

I see that Kerry's PR folk are working overtime to supply you with answers (excuses) as well!

lol... some of the leftists in this thread alone have stooped to calling our troops "idiots" and "stupid"... is it really a "stretch" of the imagination to believe that Kerry said the same? I think not.

Kerry stepped in it, and nothing he says or does will clean the sh*t off his shoes.

GL with that!

Originally posted by: DonVitoI don't love what Kerry said, simply because it lends itself to being misunderstood, but this is a man with a significant military record, even if you believe the Swift Boat Vets for Truth

He has been disrespecting soldiers since the minute he came home from Vietnam... hell, it even started before that when he falsified his own medal recommendations!

Kerry is a total douchebag and he respresents the Democratic Party perfectly.

You know, you sound sort of...how shall I put this...elitist when you talk like that, which is virtually every single one of your posts. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for WARRANTED elitism, the hard-on the Republicans seem to have for belittling anybody who knows something is one of the more irritating aspects of this "new right". But since you endlessly bitch about "elitists" your "I'm better than you" noise in every single one of your posts is a little odd.

As for "falsifying his medal recommendations", that's been pretty conclusively proven to be a load of crap. And frankly I'm a little surprised, are you soldiers so quick to turn on one of your own just because you disagree with his politics? That's pretty low if you ask me, damn sure I wouldn't want to fight with anybody who'd do that. And while we're on the topic, how many medals have YOU won? Clearly you are some kind of authority on the topic of heroism in wars that you didn't fight in or have anything to do with...

The only heroes I know are the ones who never came home. John Kerry is no "hero," and neither am I. As for medals, I have a few, but I didnt have enough rank over there to write my own recommendations, so... I dont remember getting a purple heart for the REAL shrapnel i took either... why? because it was a tiny cut and it hardly hurt. (I imagine it feels kinda like a kernel of rice if it were to hit your skin...ahem)

I never claim to be "better" than anyone here, or anywhere. I only claim to be more knowledgeable on topics concerning the GWOT and the military. This is probably due to the fact that I am actively involved in both 24/7...

All of that said, my colleagues and I all agree that Kerry's remarks are very insulting. None of them (mostly officers Major and above) believe the spin his PR folks are trying to put on it. NONE.

The bottom line: It may not have been intentional, but he did insult soldiers. period. So now the left gets to deal with it.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Our troops would have to be stupid to go around in Vietnam raping women and mass-murdering and all of those things he accused the military of in the '70s, right?

Do you defend the ones that did?

Perhaps if I were making "bad jokes" about the President, then I'd feel obligated to answer that, right?

Nice attempt at a disctraction from the point of the thread, though.

Oh, but you, like Kerry, did make a bad joke, and therefore is obligated to answer for it.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

PH, I thought you were a reservist. Are you AD? Where are you stationed?

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Our troops would have to be stupid to go around in Vietnam raping women and mass-murdering and all of those things he accused the military of in the '70s, right?

Do you defend the ones that did?

Perhaps if I were making "bad jokes" about the President, then I'd feel obligated to answer that, right?

Nice attempt at a disctraction from the point of the thread, though.

Oh, but you, like Kerry, did make a bad joke, and therefore is obligated to answer for it.

What joke? I'm trying to understand Kerry's logic about the troops being stupid.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

What joke? I'm trying to understand Kerry's logic about the troops being stupid.

He never said anything about the troops being stupid. He was talking about President Bush, and essentially said, if you don't work hard in school, you risk end up making bad decisions like President Bush, and end up stuck in Iraq.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Our troops would have to be stupid to go around in Vietnam raping women and mass-murdering and all of those things he accused the military of in the '70s, right?

Do you defend the ones that did?

Perhaps if I were making "bad jokes" about the President, then I'd feel obligated to answer that, right?

Nice attempt at a disctraction from the point of the thread, though.

Oh, but you, like Kerry, did make a bad joke, and therefore is obligated to answer for it.

What joke? I'm trying to understand Kerry's logic about the troops being stupid.

So is your original question (see bold) meant to be serious or sarcastic?

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy


That's the deal though... so long as the focus is on Kerry it won't be on Iraq. Kerry has to go first. They have a shot here... If they can get up on the shows and, in unison, state what Kerry was trying to say while playing down his actual words they migh tbe able to turn it around. But they have to do it carefully so as not to look like spinning apologists... that's the trap.

I disagree. I think focus on Kerry's speech is focus on Iraq, because after all is said and done, it's about Kerry's criticizm of Bush on Iraq, which people agree with.

You're right that Kerry attempted to go after Bush but as long as Kerry is there his words are there. And you can try to say what he really meant to say but those words are still hanging there.

So the Dems can spend the week defending the boob or they can throw him under the bus, take a step sideways and push forward with what Kerry was clumsily trying to get at from a better starting point. Otherwise it's just another Dan Quayle potatoE, Dean scream, $87 billion, rockefeller finger moment that derails the message.

I am not so sure, because the Kerry story also keeps Bush and Iraq in the spotlight for this election. Dems want this to be a referendum on Bush and Iraq, and the Kerry controversy is helping nationalize this election. I don't think they should simply cower away from controversy. They need to figure out a way to use this publicity to turn in on the Republicans. Maybe Kerry should do an "apology"/ Bush bashing news conference tomorrow.
I gotta give you credit though, you nailed it in the Webb-Allen thread.

Yeah.... but it has the spotlight pointed in the wrong direction. Ideally the Dems would want this issue to point toward the total ineptitude this administration has shown in regards to Iraq. (The intent of Kerry's mangled joke) I think this will actually focus the light (if it gets off Kerry) on the troops. And at worst that's a push for Rs. At best it's a spotlight that leans in favor of Republicans.

Call me crazy... here is what I think the Dems should do.

Don't fight the media. They are going to want to repeat Kerry's line forever. It's ONE Dem's words... not the party line. Don't waste your time defending him.

Go in front of the camera and accept the spin. Bash Kerry with the Rs. "What a terrible thing to say... even if he didn't mean it the way he said it, he should have chosen his words more carefully. And the worst part is now we're focused on Kerry instead of the real issue concerning Iraq and that is the complete lack of competence displayed by this administration.... *bash* *bash* *bash*"

My guess is that the Ds will fall into the "what he really meant to say was..." trap and lose the opportunity to change the focus off Kerry and on to a winning issue for them.