Does anybody have more than this?

[theeedude]

I agree, the individual dem candidates should throw Kerry under the bus, and Kerry should do another conference and say exactly what he meant very clearly, and that if some people misunderstood it, he is sorry, then throw in some Bush bashing and leave the scene for this cycle.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: DonVito
He never said anything about the troops being stupid. He was talking about President Bush, and essentially said, if you don't work hard in school, you risk end up making bad decisions like President Bush, and end up stuck in Iraq.

I just don't see where one can get that, from this:

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

He didn't refer to "The President" or "Bush" at all.

I just don't buy it. Does anyone have a link to the portions of the speech before and after that comment?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

He didn't refer to "The President" or "Bush" at all.

I just don't buy it.

Hahaha... he didn't mention "troops" anywhere either and you bought it like it was a 2 for 1 special. :laugh:

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: DonVito
He never said anything about the troops being stupid. He was talking about President Bush, and essentially said, if you don't work hard in school, you risk end up making bad decisions like President Bush, and end up stuck in Iraq.

I just don't see where one can get that, from this:

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

He didn't refer to "The President" or "Bush" at all.

I just don't buy it. Does anyone have a link to the portions of the speech before and after that comment?

As far as I know the full text of the speech is not available online. The AP report indicated that prior to the controversial remark, Kerry said, "President Bush used to live in the state of Texas. Now he lives in a state of denial."

I would actually like to see the full video or a transcript - that would really help clarify his remarks.

 

[conjur]

Wow. I can't believe the "liberal media" is blasting this on every network as the lead freakin' story. Kerry was obviously referring to Bush and even Bush-voter Chris Matthews knew that and said so on Hardball:

"Not since the June Taylor dancers has there been more choreography than the Republicans performing today on this Kerry flap"

From Kos on Hardball:

reading the full transcript it's clear that Kerry was insulting the president, not the troops. Dick Armey was on at the time and essentially agreed and laughed about how funny it was that the GOP was feigning mock outrage. Ha ha. Ha ha. Funny funny GOP.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: conjur
Wow. I can't believe the "liberal media" is blasting this on every network as the lead freakin' story. Kerry was obviously referring to Bush and even Bush-voter Chris Matthews knew that and said so on Hardball:

"Not since the June Taylor dancers has there been more choreography than the Republicans performing today on this Kerry flap"

From Kos on Hardball:

reading the full transcript it's clear that Kerry was insulting the president, not the troops. Dick Armey was on at the time and essentially agreed and laughed about how funny it was that the GOP was feigning mock outrage. Ha ha. Ha ha. Funny funny GOP.

Kerry should either say what he means or shut the hell up.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: palehorse74

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

He didn't refer to "The President" or "Bush" at all.

I just don't buy it.

Hahaha... he didn't mention "troops" anywhere either and you bought it like it was a 2 for 1 special. :laugh:

uhh, i do believe that one of those terms is inferred by "...you end up in Iraq," while the others ("Bush" and "The President") are a very big stretch.

It is my interpretation that "you" referred to those in his audience who don't do well in school, and will therefore end up in Iraq... thus inferring that those who have ended up in Iraq are stupid, lazy, or worse.

Like I said, I'd really like to see the entire speech, or at least those sections immediately before and after the now infamous quote. I'll reserve my final judgement until I see those... but for now, I believe that his excuses are pure unadulterated bullsh*t.

Want me to change my mind? Then show me the actual context of the statement and not some after-the-fact spindoctored excuse.

fair enough?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: conjur
Wow. I can't believe the "liberal media" is blasting this on every network as the lead freakin' story. Kerry was obviously referring to Bush and even Bush-voter Chris Matthews knew that and said so on Hardball:

"Not since the June Taylor dancers has there been more choreography than the Republicans performing today on this Kerry flap"

From Kos on Hardball:

reading the full transcript it's clear that Kerry was insulting the president, not the troops. Dick Armey was on at the time and essentially agreed and laughed about how funny it was that the GOP was feigning mock outrage. Ha ha. Ha ha. Funny funny GOP.

Kerry should either say what he means or shut the hell up.

http://blog.johnkerry.com/

SENATOR KERRY: Let me make it crystal clear, as crystal clear as I know how: I apologize to no one for my criticism of the president and of his broken policy.

If anyone owes our troops in the fields an apology, it is the President and his failed team and a Republican majority in the Congress that has been willing to stamp -- rubber-stamp policies that
have done injury to our troops and to their families.

My statement yesterday -- and the White House knows this full well -- was a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops.

The White House's attempt to distort my true statement is a remarkable testament to their abject failure in making America safe. It's a stunning statement about their willingness to reduce anything in America to raw politics. It's their willingness to distort, their willingness to mislead Americans, their willingness to exploit the troops, as they have so many times at backdrops, at so many speeches at which they have not told the American people the truth.

I'm not going to stand for it.

 

[palehorse]

simply put: show us the recorded speech. We'll be the judges of "context."

someone, somewhere, has to be able to get a copy of the exact speech he gave. (not a paper copy... a video or audio copy is required)

nothing like that goes unrecorded.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
uhh, i do believe that one of those terms is inferred by "...you end up in Iraq," while the others ("Bush" and "The President") are a very big stretch.

It is my interpretation that "you" referred to those in his audience who don't do well in school, and will therefore end up in Iraq... thus inferring that those who have ended up in Iraq are stupid, lazy, or worse.

Like I said, I'd really like to see the entire speech, or at least those sections immediately before and after the now infamous quote. I'll reserve my final judgement until I see those... but for now, I believe that his excuses are pure unadulterated bullsh*t.

Want me to change my mind? Then show me the actual context of the statement and not some after-the-fact spindoctored excuse.

fair enough?

With all due respect, it seems very clear to me that you're taking a partisan perspective on this, and interpreting his remarks accordingly. I find it hard to believe anyone could seriously be so offended by this, and I too am a veteran with friends in Iraq.

 

[conjur]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/kerrys-mangled-statement_b_32911.html

Below is what Kerry actually meant to say, which I got straight from the Kerry team, which Kerry uses all the time.

"I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq." - Senator John Kerry

He screwed it up. Period. Hey, but the wingnuts don't care. And now it's on tape!

Mis-statement or not, you've just seen footage of the first negative ad in the '08 campaign, if Kerry runs.

Below is Kerry's statement responding to all the wingnuts going wild, which can be found here, here, here, here.

He's right about one thing. While U.S. soldiers are dying in Iraq, the wingnut brigade prefers distractions.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
simply put: show us the recorded speech. We'll be the judges of "context."

someone, somewhere, has to be able to get a copy of the exact speech he gave. (not a paper copy... a video or audio copy is required)

nothing like that goes unrecorded.

My guess is that neither side has released it by design, presumably because neither finds clear support for its position. The speech was clearly videotaped, as both Kerry's infamous remark and his joke about Bush being in a state of denial are on tape.

 

[dmcowen674]

Bahahahahahahahaha I love hearing the Republicans falling all over themselves on this.

It's really making them look and sound like the jacka$$es they are :laugh:

Too bad they didn't do this back in 2004.

 

[OrByte]

clearly, by reading what Kerry MEANT to say, it wasn't a bash towards the military and/or the troops at all.

Bush has brain farts all the time on camera...people make fun, and then forgive him for it.

isn't it possible Kerry can have brain farts too?

 

[Hossenfeffer]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: glenn beck
This 10 second clip, curious the whole context of his message.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

There should be hell to pay for that comment.

He mussed the joke, though it was "like a joke" rather than an actual joke. Pretty obvious. Not gonna give the guy any gold stars or anything, but the outrage in response seems pointless. He messed up a speech.


The thought that he would insult the troops and their intelligence is just mind-boggling. I'm amazed that people are swallowing. O.K., I'm not really amazed. As a lot, we Americans will believe a lot of crap, left, right, or otherwise.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: OrByte
clearly, by reading what Kerry MEANT to say, it wasn't a bash towards the military and/or the troops at all.

That is only if you consider his excuse to be truthful. I do not. I believe that redirecting the statement toward Bush is really his PR crew backpedaling at warpspeed.

However, I will have to see the entire video to be certain.

 

[conjur]

Of course you do, paleface. Wouldn't want you taking Kerry (or any Dem) at their word now, would we?

:roll:



Go back to your WoW clan.

 

[Jaskalas]

Adamantly defending your man at all costs merely shows how partisan this all is. It was in terribly bad taste, but he came out swinging on the offensive. That man is not Presidential material and tonight he reaffirmed my choice in 2004.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: conjur
Of course you do, paleface. Wouldn't want you taking Kerry (or any Dem) at their word now, would we?

:roll:

Go back to your WoW clan.

WoW sucks. The PvP is horrendous.

But hey Conjie, it's nice to see you stick your standard personal insults. that's great!

And no, I will not take Kerry at his word. I said that I'd wait for the video before making final judgement, so that's what I'll do. It's on Kerry's shoulders to demonstrate the genuine context of the statement. That being said, it doesnt make much sense that they are withholding the video from the public if it would so "clearly" and "obviously" prove his innocense.

but hey, I guess we'll just wait and see.

 

[OrByte]

someone is withholding the video?

I thought it was all over youtube?

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: OrByte
clearly, by reading what Kerry MEANT to say, it wasn't a bash towards the military and/or the troops at all.

Bush has brain farts all the time on camera...people make fun, and then forgive him for it.

isn't it possible Kerry can have brain farts too?[/q]

don't try to be logical in this thread. for kerry's detractors, this thread has got nothing to do with the truth of the matter. all that i've seen so far from them is that they're attempting to spin kerry's vulnerable statement into a lie, of which kerry would have to be completely out of his mind to mean and say.

edit - form

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: OrByte
someone is withholding the video?

I thought it was all over youtube?

It is. I saw it, and it adds nothing to the description already in this thread.

The correct interpretation of his remarks is not from seeing it, but from considering with common sense what the man was saying.

(And possibly there being a history of Kerry making the same joke with the word "us" in it, making the statement very clear, as in:

'getting *us* stuck in Iraq', rather than 'getting stuck in Iraq'.)

But Palehorse is an ideologue not basing his opinion on the common sense view.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: OrByte
someone is withholding the video?

I thought it was all over youtube?

we need the entire video, not the 10-second soundbites. If Kerry claims the context was other than that shown in the soundbite, he will need to give us that video. He can make claims all day long, but I'm not buying it until you show me the video in all its glory. I want to see what references to Bush there are before or after the soundbite. I'll be the judge of the actual context.

We'll cut out the middle men (his PR staff).

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: OrByte
someone is withholding the video?

I thought it was all over youtube?

It is. I saw it, and it adds nothing to the description already in this thread.

The correct interpretation of his remarks is not from seeing it, but from considering with common sense what the man was saying.

(And possibly there being a history of Kerry making the same joke with the word "us" in it, making the statement very clear, as in:

'getting *us* stuck in Iraq', rather than 'getting stuck in Iraq'.)

But Palehorse is an ideologue not basing his opinion on the common sense view.

Ive read some news reports that state that Kerry left out the word 'us'.

an important little word, given the uproar the wingers are in now

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: OrByte
someone is withholding the video?

I thought it was all over youtube?

It is. I saw it, and it adds nothing to the description already in this thread.

The correct interpretation of his remarks is not from seeing it, but from considering with common sense what the man was saying.

(And possibly there being a history of Kerry making the same joke with the word "us" in it, making the statement very clear, as in:

'getting *us* stuck in Iraq', rather than 'getting stuck in Iraq'.)

But Palehorse is an ideologue not basing his opinion on the common sense view.

show.us.the.full.video.

the 10 second sounbite is useless for determining context.

simple enough, right?