Does anybody have more than this?

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: xenolith

No. I think subconsciously that's what he believes given his past anti-military statements (see my earlier post this thread). But it was like his "botched joke" trailed off into words he didn't mean to say and were unrelated to earlier context, hence, it was a Freudian slip.

Spoken words mean something. Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

There was no Freudian slip, and he said no "offensive words about our military." This veteran thinks you're a partisan hack who would never, ever have taken offense at these words if they came from a draft-dodger, like Dick Cheney, who happened to have an (R) next to his name.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: xenolith
Spoken words mean something. Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

Then surely you must demand that Bush apologize for all of his offensive quotes as well

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

"There -- it's -- you know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror"

Are you suggesting that Bush wants to harm U.S citizens and intentionally lies about connections between Iraq and the war on terror? Of course not (though the second part is questionable). Maybe you should be a little more forgiving with Kerry's statement as well.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by xenolith: Spoken words mean something. Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

I hope he doesn't since some groups are attempting to twist what was said into something it wasn't..

I would think that any vets would have more contempt for an administration that sends its men and woman into battle lacking what they need to do the job, at the same time trying to cut their benefits...

Contempt for the troops - coming from those in charge.....

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Sigh... I know what he meant. I'm saying how it's being spun. You're getting the spin wrong. The spin is that he called the troops in Iraq stupid.

Well, that's republican spin, that's for sure. They should be careful or they'll get dizzy from all that spinning. They were trying to make it a localized election and this is going to nationalize it and make it about Iraq, which could backfire big time on the GOP. I think Dems would be perfectly happy to throw Kerry under the bus in exchnage for focusing this election on Iraq.

This isn't focusing the election on Iraq any more than his "I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it" line did. If anything it takes the focus off Iraq and puts it squarely on him. His defiant stance on the issue isn't helping.

He had a chance to dance around it and take a huge mea culpa. Too late for that now. Now you have a media who eats this stuff up (and fans the flames for added effect) presenting his words ver batim and leaving it at that. And his words as he spoke them, with no explaination of intent, appear to have him calling soldiers in Iraq stupid.

Bear in mind that we (people who post here) are freaks. The other 99.99999% of america go to CNN and see the quote with little or no explaination and there ya go... Kerry called troops stupid.

It'll be interesting to see what happens tomorrow. Dems are already wringing their hands over this. They understand the scenario I painted above. They may indeed throw his elitist ass under the bus. I'd bet $5 that the defiant attitude he was showing today will be gone and he'll be doing what he should have done in the first place...

Say something dumb...
Back up...
Whoops...
I would never...
What I meant to say was...
Sorry

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

No. I think subconsciously that's what he believes given his past anti-military statements (see my earlier post this thread). But it was like his "botched joke" trailed off into words he didn't mean to say and were unrelated to earlier context, hence, it was a Freudian slip.

Spoken words mean something. Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

There was no Freudian slip, and he said no "offensive words about our military." This veteran thinks you're a partisan hack who would never, ever have taken offense at these words if they came from a draft-dodger, like Dick Cheney, who happened to have an (R) next to his name.

And of course your not a partisan hack, right?

 

[Budarow]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: glenn beck
This 10 second clip, curious the whole context of his message.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

Ummmm.... that is a comment on the administration, the President in particular, not the troops.

The administration, the President in particular, has us stuck in Iraq without a plan or clue.

Jeez... it took me all of 1 second reading the quote on CNN to figure that out!

I agree... I would go further to say that it doesn't matter. His presidential campaign just ended. Regardless of the context, that clip comes off as bad as the "I voted for the $86 billion before I voted against it" line. Those two will be played endlessly, back to back, over and over and he'll come looking even more like an elitist boob than he already does.

Yea...that statement by Kerry was a terrible shame. Neither he nor his "handlers" could figure out how to defend this statement properly so the typical american would understand what he was trying to say. All it would have taken was 30 seconds for Kerry to provide a simple example (during the second debate) of procedures on the hill regarding how a bill becomes a law (i.e., a bill can get voted on several times with both yea and nay votes by each senate and house member before the bill becomes a law).

Instead Kerry calls the ploy a cheap trick (or something to that effect) during the debate. What a dabacle.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
It'll be interesting to see what happens tomorrow. Dems are already wringing their hands over this. They understand the scenario I painted above. They may indeed throw his elitist ass under the bus. I'd bet $5 that the defiant attitude he was showing today will be gone and he'll be doing what he should have done in the first place...

Say something dumb...
Back up...
Whoops...
I would never...
What I meant to say was...
Sorry

I doubt even that. He'll probably just apologize that his quote was "misinterpreted".

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

No. I think subconsciously that's what he believes given his past anti-military statements (see my earlier post this thread). But it was like his "botched joke" trailed off into words he didn't mean to say and were unrelated to earlier context, hence, it was a Freudian slip.

Spoken words mean something. Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

There was no Freudian slip, and he said no "offensive words about our military." This veteran thinks you're a partisan hack who would never, ever have taken offense at these words if they came from a draft-dodger, like Dick Cheney, who happened to have an (R) next to his name.

And of course your not a partisan hack, right?

How did not Dick dodge the draft... Other than having better things to do?

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: xenolith
Spoken words mean something. Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

Then surely you must demand that Bush apologize for all of his offensive quotes as well

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

"There -- it's -- you know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror"

Are you suggesting that Bush wants to harm U.S citizens and intentionally lies about connections between Iraq and the war on terror? Of course not (though the second part is questionable). Maybe you should be a little more forgiving with Kerry's statement as well.

I have condemned here at P&N many things Bush has said.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

No. I think subconsciously that's what he believes given his past anti-military statements (see my earlier post this thread). But it was like his "botched joke" trailed off into words he didn't mean to say and were unrelated to earlier context, hence, it was a Freudian slip.

Spoken words mean something. Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

There was no Freudian slip, and he said no "offensive words about our military." This veteran thinks you're a partisan hack who would never, ever have taken offense at these words if they came from a draft-dodger, like Dick Cheney, who happened to have an (R) next to his name.

And of course your not a partisan hack, right?

I don't think so, though I am generally a Democrat. I served in the military under Clinton and GWB (including a combat-zone deployment in Sep 01 in support of OEF), and if you can somehow make the search engine work you will find me speaking favorably about President Bush well into 2002.

I don't think there's much debate that Cheney was a draft dodger - he managed to get five draft deferments while repeatedly failing of college. I am not particularly a fan of John Kerry's, but I really do respect his voluntary combat service, and his anti-war activities when he came back. He did both of these things by his own choice, because he felt they were the right thing to do. I can certainly respect this more than the actions of a Cheney, who supported the war but couldn't be bothered to serve.

 

[trenchfoot]

there's some kind of odor in this thread - *sniff* *sniff* - it smells like....a herd of panicked rampaging elephants scared out of their wits screeching "wolf!!! wolf!!! wolf!!!.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Sigh... I know what he meant. I'm saying how it's being spun. You're getting the spin wrong. The spin is that he called the troops in Iraq stupid.

Well, that's republican spin, that's for sure. They should be careful or they'll get dizzy from all that spinning. They were trying to make it a localized election and this is going to nationalize it and make it about Iraq, which could backfire big time on the GOP. I think Dems would be perfectly happy to throw Kerry under the bus in exchnage for focusing this election on Iraq.

This isn't focusing the election on Iraq any more than his "I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it" line did. If anything it takes the focus off Iraq and puts it squarely on him. His defiant stance on the issue isn't helping.

He had a chance to dance around it and take a huge mea culpa. Too late for that now. Now you have a media who eats this stuff up (and fans the flames for added effect) presenting his words ver batim and leaving it at that. And his words as he spoke them, with no explaination of intent, appear to have him calling soldiers in Iraq stupid.

Bear in mind that we (people who post here) are freaks. The other 99.99999% of america go to CNN and see the quote with little or no explaination and there ya go... Kerry called troops stupid.

You are exaggerating cable news audience. There are about 5 million people watching cable news on a good day, and most of them are news junkies like us who made their minds up long time ago. That is a very tiny amount. So for GOP to score points on this, they would need to run ads on television that people actually watch, which would be kind of awkward since they would have spend their money to bash Kerry and not their opponent.
Also, having watched cable TV all day, aside from FNC, they have been mostly including Kerry's explanation of what he meant, so I think the net effect is to focus on Iraq more.

It'll be interesting to see what happens tomorrow. Dems are already wringing their hands over this. They understand the scenario I painted above. They may indeed throw his elitist ass under the bus. I'd bet $5 that the defiant attitude he was showing today will be gone and he'll be doing what he should have done in the first place...

Say something dumb...
Back up...
Whoops...
I would never...
What I meant to say was...
Sorry

I think they need to wait until the focus of the campaign is firmly on Iraq before they throw Kerry under the bus.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: Budarow

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: glenn beck
This 10 second clip, curious the whole context of his message.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

Ummmm.... that is a comment on the administration, the President in particular, not the troops.

The administration, the President in particular, has us stuck in Iraq without a plan or clue.

Jeez... it took me all of 1 second reading the quote on CNN to figure that out!

I agree... I would go further to say that it doesn't matter. His presidential campaign just ended. Regardless of the context, that clip comes off as bad as the "I voted for the $86 billion before I voted against it" line. Those two will be played endlessly, back to back, over and over and he'll come looking even more like an elitist boob than he already does.

Yea...that statement by Kerry was a terrible shame. Neither he nor his "handlers" could figure out how to defend this statement properly so the typical american would understand what he was trying to say. All it would have taken was 30 seconds for Kerry to provide a simple example (during the second debate) of procedures on the hill regarding how a bill becomes a law (i.e., a bill can get voted on several times with both yea and nay votes by each senate and house member before the bill becomes a law).

Instead Kerry calls the ploy a cheap trick (or something to that effect) during the debate. What a dabacle.

Another attempt at humor with disasterous results followed by totally inept damage control.

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

No. I think subconsciously that's what he believes given his past anti-military statements (see my earlier post this thread). But it was like his "botched joke" trailed off into words he didn't mean to say and were unrelated to earlier context, hence, it was a Freudian slip.

Spoken words mean something. Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

There was no Freudian slip, and he said no "offensive words about our military." This veteran thinks you're a partisan hack who would never, ever have taken offense at these words if they came from a draft-dodger, like Dick Cheney, who happened to have an (R) next to his name.

And of course your not a partisan hack, right?

I don't think so, though I am generally a Democrat. I served in the military under Clinton and GWB (including a combat-zone deployment in Sep 01 in support of OEF), and if you can somehow make the search engine work you will find me speaking favorably about President Bush well into 2002.

I don't think there's much debate that Cheney was a draft dodger - he managed to get five draft deferments while repeatedly failing of college. I am not particularly a fan of John Kerry's, but I really do respect his voluntary combat service, and his anti-war activities when he came back. He did both of these things by his own choice, because he felt they were the right thing to do. I can certainly respect this more than the actions of a Cheney, who supported the war but couldn't be bothered to serve.

Then what does Cheney's draft deferments have to do with what Kerry said?

It's a little off topic, IMO.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Another attempt at humor with disasterous results followed by totally inept damage control.

No argument from me. I think Kerry is still (justifiably) pissed about his treatment in 2004, and now, two years later, has decided to come out fighting. He isn't good at it (unlike, say, Bill Clinton), and if he's going to fight back so hard, he should at least clarify what he meant to say.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

No. I think subconsciously that's what he believes given his past anti-military statements (see my earlier post this thread). But it was like his "botched joke" trailed off into words he didn't mean to say and were unrelated to earlier context, hence, it was a Freudian slip.

Spoken words mean something. Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

There was no Freudian slip, and he said no "offensive words about our military." This veteran thinks you're a partisan hack who would never, ever have taken offense at these words if they came from a draft-dodger, like Dick Cheney, who happened to have an (R) next to his name.

And of course your not a partisan hack, right?

I don't think so, though I am generally a Democrat. I served in the military under Clinton and GWB (including a combat-zone deployment in Sep 01 in support of OEF), and if you can somehow make the search engine work you will find me speaking favorably about President Bush well into 2002.

I don't think there's much debate that Cheney was a draft dodger - he managed to get five draft deferments while repeatedly failing of college. I am not particularly a fan of John Kerry's, but I really do respect his voluntary combat service, and his anti-war activities when he came back. He did both of these things by his own choice, because he felt they were the right thing to do. I can certainly respect this more than the actions of a Cheney, who supported the war but couldn't be bothered to serve.

Then what does Cheney's draft deferments have to do with what Kerry said?

It's a little off topic, IMO.

You're the one who bolded it. The reason I brought it up is that IMO Kerry, a decorated combat veteran, has earned a little more benefit of the doubt when it comes to interpreting his remark than someone like Cheney, yet my guess is that you'd give Cheney more slack than Kerry. Perhaps I'm wrong, and you're free to correct me.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Sigh... I know what he meant. I'm saying how it's being spun. You're getting the spin wrong. The spin is that he called the troops in Iraq stupid.

Well, that's republican spin, that's for sure. They should be careful or they'll get dizzy from all that spinning. They were trying to make it a localized election and this is going to nationalize it and make it about Iraq, which could backfire big time on the GOP. I think Dems would be perfectly happy to throw Kerry under the bus in exchnage for focusing this election on Iraq.

This isn't focusing the election on Iraq any more than his "I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it" line did. If anything it takes the focus off Iraq and puts it squarely on him. His defiant stance on the issue isn't helping.

He had a chance to dance around it and take a huge mea culpa. Too late for that now. Now you have a media who eats this stuff up (and fans the flames for added effect) presenting his words ver batim and leaving it at that. And his words as he spoke them, with no explaination of intent, appear to have him calling soldiers in Iraq stupid.

Bear in mind that we (people who post here) are freaks. The other 99.99999% of america go to CNN and see the quote with little or no explaination and there ya go... Kerry called troops stupid.

You are exaggerating cable news audience. There are about 5 million people watching cable news on a good day, and most of them are news junkies like us who made their minds up long time ago. That is a very tiny amount. So for GOP to score points on this, they would need to run ads on television that people actually watch, which would be kind of awkward since they would have spend their money to bash Kerry and not their opponent.
Also, having watched cable TV all day, aside from FNC, they have been mostly including Kerry's explanation of what he meant, so I think the net effect is to focus on Iraq more.

It'll be interesting to see what happens tomorrow. Dems are already wringing their hands over this. They understand the scenario I painted above. They may indeed throw his elitist ass under the bus. I'd bet $5 that the defiant attitude he was showing today will be gone and he'll be doing what he should have done in the first place...

Say something dumb...
Back up...
Whoops...
I would never...
What I meant to say was...
Sorry

I think they need to wait until the focus of the campaign is firmly on Iraq before they throw Kerry under the bus.

That's the deal though... so long as the focus is on Kerry it won't be on Iraq. Kerry has to go first. They have a shot here... If they can get up on the shows and, in unison, state what Kerry was trying to say while playing down his actual words they migh tbe able to turn it around. But they have to do it carefully so as not to look like spinning apologists... that's the trap.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy


That's the deal though... so long as the focus is on Kerry it won't be on Iraq. Kerry has to go first. They have a shot here... If they can get up on the shows and, in unison, state what Kerry was trying to say while playing down his actual words they migh tbe able to turn it around. But they have to do it carefully so as not to look like spinning apologists... that's the trap.

I disagree. I think focus on Kerry's speech is focus on Iraq, because after all is said and done, it's about Kerry's criticizm of Bush on Iraq, which people agree with.

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

No. I think subconsciously that's what he believes given his past anti-military statements (see my earlier post this thread). But it was like his "botched joke" trailed off into words he didn't mean to say and were unrelated to earlier context, hence, it was a Freudian slip.

Spoken words mean something. Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

There was no Freudian slip, and he said no "offensive words about our military." This veteran thinks you're a partisan hack who would never, ever have taken offense at these words if they came from a draft-dodger, like Dick Cheney, who happened to have an (R) next to his name.

And of course your not a partisan hack, right?

I don't think so, though I am generally a Democrat. I served in the military under Clinton and GWB (including a combat-zone deployment in Sep 01 in support of OEF), and if you can somehow make the search engine work you will find me speaking favorably about President Bush well into 2002.

I don't think there's much debate that Cheney was a draft dodger - he managed to get five draft deferments while repeatedly failing of college. I am not particularly a fan of John Kerry's, but I really do respect his voluntary combat service, and his anti-war activities when he came back. He did both of these things by his own choice, because he felt they were the right thing to do. I can certainly respect this more than the actions of a Cheney, who supported the war but couldn't be bothered to serve.

Then what does Cheney's draft deferments have to do with what Kerry said?

It's a little off topic, IMO.

You're the one who bolded it. The reason I brought it up is that IMO Kerry, a decorated combat veteran, has earned a little more benefit of the doubt when it comes to interpreting his remark than someone like Cheney, yet my guess is that you'd give Cheney more slack than Kerry. Perhaps I'm wrong, and you're free to correct me.

Ah, go back and read the thread again. You brought up Cheney. And I give Cheney no slack. I do not like the way post-war Iraq has been handled for one.

Now can we get back on topic?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: DonVito

You're the one who bolded it. The reason I brought it up is that IMO Kerry, a decorated combat veteran, has earned a little more benefit of the doubt when it comes to interpreting his remark than someone like Cheney, yet my guess is that you'd give Cheney more slack than Kerry. Perhaps I'm wrong, and you're free to correct me.

Ah, go back and read the thread again. You brought up Cheney. And I give Cheney no slack. I do not like the way post-war Iraq has been handled for one.

Now can we get back on topic?

Jesus - talk about the pot calling the kettle black. If you have to continue this silly debate (you're the one whining about getting back on topic), at least read what I post before you respond. I brought up Cheney for, IMO, a legitimate rhetorical purpose. And, to make the circle complete, no, I don't think I'm a partisan hack, and yes, I think you're willfully misreading Kerry's remark because you don't like his politics.

 

[sandmanwake]

I think the real question on everyone's mind is "how will the Daily Show make fun of Kerry for this remark?"

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Kerry not running in this election. Bush is

Really? In which district?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: senseamp
Kerry not running in this election. Bush is

Really? In which district?

In a real sense, he's running in every district. Them's the breaks when you have a very unpopular President.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: xenolith

Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

How dare you say that our troops are all homosexual. You can't take it back unless you apologize.

No, you can't defend yourself by saying that you didn't say that, that your words were misinterpreted, because you clearly did say it, so you can only apologize.

Not so fun having the bizaro logic aimed in your direction, is it?

Spoken words mean something.

Not to you, apparently, since you refuse to accept what they mean and make things up.

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

Originally posted by: DonVito

You're the one who bolded it. The reason I brought it up is that IMO Kerry, a decorated combat veteran, has earned a little more benefit of the doubt when it comes to interpreting his remark than someone like Cheney, yet my guess is that you'd give Cheney more slack than Kerry. Perhaps I'm wrong, and you're free to correct me.

Ah, go back and read the thread again. You brought up Cheney. And I give Cheney no slack. I do not like the way post-war Iraq has been handled for one.

Now can we get back on topic?

Jesus - talk about the pot calling the kettle black. If you have to continue this silly debate (you're the one whining about getting back on topic), at least read what I post before you respond. I brought up Cheney for, IMO, a legitimate rhetorical purpose. And, to make the circle complete, no, I don't think I'm a partisan hack, and yes, I think you're willfully misreading Kerry's remark because you don't like his politics.

Fine! I'm a partisan hack and your not and I'm just whining to myself. Got it... done!