Does anybody have more than this?

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Yeah, this is all over the news. The look on his "what did I do?" look on his face says it all.

He honestly believes his own words and is now shifting blame to the republicans (lack of personal responsibility anybody?). Thank you John Kerry. You have delivered the perfect death blow, at the perfect time.

Vote Republican. Because John Kerry is a shining example of why you shouldn't vote democrat.

Indeed vote Democrat. Because Republicans are willing to lie and risk demoralizing and deceiving American Soldiers by asserting that an American war hero meant to insult them when they know no such thing occured.

Obviously its only Republicans who are allowed to mispeak and its impossible that a Democrat could do so in any way shape or form ever.:roll:

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: DonVito
Wow - Kerry's response was surprisingly strongly worded. Although I agree with his reaction, it reads more like something someone here would post than the words of a US Senator.

From the NYT:

But if anyone should apologize, Mr. Kerry said, it is President Bush and his administration officials who started the ill-conceived war. He said his remarks, which he conceded were part of a ?botched joke,? had been distorted and called the criticism directed at him the work of ?assorted right-wing nut jobs and right-wing talk show hosts.?

?If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they?re crazy,? Mr. Kerry said in a statement. ?I?m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.?

?I?m not going to be lectured by a stuffed-suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox?s Parkinson?s disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq,? Mr. Kerry went on. ?It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.?

At a televised news conference today in Seattle, Mr. Kerry said he was ?disgusted? by the Republican attacks, which he noted were coming at the end of a bloody month in Iraq. ?Sadly, this is the best this administration can do,? he said.

Mr. Kerry did not mention Mr. McCain in his statement, although at the news conference he said Mr. McCain should seek an apology from President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney if he wants an apology from anyone.

McCain asked for the apology, he pretty much called McCain a hack who has never served, which would be wrong.

McCain pretty much flushed his appeal with independents down the toilet with his pandering to the right and open partizanship.
I would have voted for the man in 2000, but now, he is just a washed up partizan hack.
I think this completely unfair attack on Kerry is the last nail in his political coffin.
It may help him win nomination, but he's too far right now to win the general election.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: xenolith

Oh my reading comprehension of you liberal apologists is clear. I'm just not buying it...

I don't love what Kerry said, simply because it lends itself to being misunderstood, but this is a man with a significant military record, even if you believe the Swift Boat Vets for Truth. He also has an exemplary record on veteran's rights. I just don't believe he would intentionally attack combat troops for no reason - it seems clear to me he was referring to President Bush. That said, in today's know-nothing, sound-bite era of "broadcast journalism," his comment, taken out of context, sounds bad, and will resonate with some voters. Ah well . . .

John Kerry's hate for the military goes back 30 years. This is a continued pattern for him.

-edit-
his comments on torture during vietnam were false, he couldn't refute Swiftboat, he says soldiers are terrorists, that soldiers like to torture. So it's just more of what he's been saying for decades. He's a tool.

Ridiculous. Just ridiculous. You're just rehashing the standard Swift Boat party line. You weren't in Vietnam, I'm quite sure, and he never said our soldiers were terrorists or that they "like to torture." His protests after returning from Vietnam were done to protect his comrades-in-arms, not to attack them.

I assume - please correct me if I'm wrong - that Kerry has literally infinitely more combat experience than you, and, as I pointed out above, his voting record is very pro-veteran. I certainly don't think he was the world's greatest Presidential candidate, but I don't think he's a bad guy, and he's certainly not anti-military.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: spidey07
He honestly believes his own words and is now shifting blame to the republicans (lack of personal responsibility anybody?).

How do you know thats what he meant to say?

Bush once said "They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

Do you think thats what he meant to say as well? You can't have a double standard. You either give both of them the benefit of the doubt, or neither of them.

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: xenolith
Oh my reading comprehension of you liberal apologists is clear. I'm just not buying it...

Seek mental help then, because no-one in their right mind could believe anything else. Its blatantly obvious it was referring to Bush in the context of speech. This becomes especially true once you recognize there is no benefit to making the joke in any political context and Kerry would have basically been insulting himself otherwise.

I need to seek mental help?

I'm just stating facts -- what John Kerry has said yesterday and in the past and evidence to refute his claims. It's up to you to make up your own mind to what it all means.

Personally, I don't think it's too "mental" to believe John Kerry was caught in yet another Freudian slip.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Kerry is as graceful speaking off the cuff as he is at sports...

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: spidey07
his comments on torture during vietnam were false, he couldn't refute Swiftboat, he says soldiers are terrorists, that soldiers like to torture. So it's just more of what he's been saying for decades. He's a tool.

Kerry's comments on torture during Vietnam were basically correct, although some of the people he believed that were military vetrans turned out not to be, so he was inancurate when reporting what they had asserted to him. He obviously never said anything remotely like soldiers in general like to torture.

Many of Switboat claims were promply absolutely proven to be lies by people who couldn't have been where they claimed they were, the remainder were not exactly plausible. Its striking how conservatives try to simply make stuff up in order to try to win an election again. Clearly reality is a problem for many of them.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: spidey07
He honestly believes his own words and is now shifting blame to the republicans (lack of personal responsibility anybody?).

How do you know thats what he meant to say?

Bush once said "They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

Do you think thats what he meant to say as well? You can't have a double standard. You either give both of them the benefit of the doubt, or neither of them.

In fact I assume the double standard springs from the fact that even diehard Republicans understand that President Bush is an inarticulate boob, whereas Kerry is a bright but wooden professional politician who is expected to be able to speak like an adult.

In this situation I don't know that a double standard is even needed - the Republicans are willfully taking Kerry's remarks out of context.

 

[theeedude]

Here is what the GOP wants you to believe: That Jonn Kerry, who voluntarily enlisted in the military after graduating from Yale, is saying that members of the military, and not George W. Bush, are uneducated and got us stuck in Iraq.
On the other hand, George W. Bush is saying that attacks on his intelligence are attacks on the troops.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Aegeon
Obviously its only Republicans who are allowed to mispeak and its impossible that a Democrat could do so in any way shape or form ever.:roll:

He said he didn't mispeak. He will not appologize for his ridiculous comments and downright insult of the highest form. Not only that it isn't factually correct.

Yet he blames this on Republicans?

Did rebuplicans force him to make such an assinine statement? No.

A real man, a real leader would have just said "I made a mistake, I'm sorry" and moved on. But this snake in the grass has angered the entire nation. And by trying to blame somebody else instead of taking responsibility is a good example how NOT to be a leader.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: xenolith
Personally, I don't think it's too "mental" to believe John Kerry was caught in yet another Freudian slip.

Ok so you ARE aknowledging that Kerry didn't mean to say that. In that case you're aknowledging if the White House thought the same way they deliberately comprimised the war effort in Iraq for political gain and risked demoralizing US troops by falsely asserting that a Senator and war hero had deliberately insulted them when they knew this was not the case.

 

[CellarDoor]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Aegeon
Obviously its only Republicans who are allowed to mispeak and its impossible that a Democrat could do so in any way shape or form ever.:roll:

He said he didn't mispeak. He will not appologize for his ridiculous comments and downright insult of the highest form. Not only that it isn't factually correct.

Yet he blames this on Republicans?

Did rebuplicans force him to make such an assinine statement? No.

A real man, a real leader would have just said "I made a mistake, I'm sorry" and moved on. But this snake in the grass has angered the entire nation. And by trying to blame somebody else instead of taking responsibility is a good example how NOT to be a leader.

He didn't misspeak. Given the context of his statement, it was obvious that he wasn't referring to the troops.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is what the GOP wants you to believe: That Jonn Kerry, who voluntarily enlisted in the military after graduating from Yale, is saying that members of the military, and not George W. Bush, are uneducated and got us stuck in Iraq.
On the other hand, George W. Bush is saying that attacks on his intelligence are attacks on the troops.

WRONG! What they are saying is that Kerry said that if you don't go to school and get an education you'll wind up in Iraq. In essence calling the people in our volunteer military stupid.

That is the way they are presenting his statement.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Kerry is as graceful speaking off the cuff as he is at sports...

Yeah, Bush's college athletics were much more impressive.

 

[theeedude]

Why should he apologize for saying what he believes about Bush? Just because the Republicans have twisted it to blame the troops for the mess Bush got us stuck in?

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is what the GOP wants you to believe: That Jonn Kerry, who voluntarily enlisted in the military after graduating from Yale, is saying that members of the military, and not George W. Bush, are uneducated and got us stuck in Iraq.
On the other hand, George W. Bush is saying that attacks on his intelligence are attacks on the troops.

WRONG! What they are saying is that Kerry said that if you don't go to school and get an education you'll wind up in Iraq. In essence calling the people in our volunteer military stupid.

That is the way they are presenting his statement.

No, you are the one saying "if you don't go to school and get an education you'll wind up in Iraq." Kerry was saying if you don't work hard and do your homework you'll get this country stuck in Iraq, like Bush did. Stop blaming the troops for Bush's mess.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Kerry is as graceful speaking off the cuff as he is at sports...

Yeah, Bush's college athletics were much more impressive.

I think those are high school athletics.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Kerry is as graceful speaking off the cuff as he is at sports...

Yeah, Bush's college athletics were much more impressive.

I think those are high school athletics.

Yeah, I imagine you're right - the "A" must stand for Andover, where he went to high school. You'd think there would be some embarrassing pics out there of him as a cheerleader in college (where he cheered all four years), but I guess those have largely been pulled and destroyed.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Kerry is as graceful speaking off the cuff as he is at sports...

Yeah, Bush's college athletics were much more impressive.

Was that the best you could do? I figured you'd get a shot of him trying to remember if potato had an E or not. Or carefully pronouncing "nookular" :laugh:

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is what the GOP wants you to believe: That Jonn Kerry, who voluntarily enlisted in the military after graduating from Yale, is saying that members of the military, and not George W. Bush, are uneducated and got us stuck in Iraq.
On the other hand, George W. Bush is saying that attacks on his intelligence are attacks on the troops.

WRONG! What they are saying is that Kerry said that if you don't go to school and get an education you'll wind up in Iraq. In essence calling the people in our volunteer military stupid.

That is the way they are presenting his statement.

No, you are the one saying "if you don't go to school and get an education you'll wind up in Iraq." Kerry was saying if you don't work hard and do your homework you'll get this country stuck in Iraq, like Bush did. Stop blaming the troops for Bush's mess.

Sigh... I know what he meant. I'm saying how it's being spun. You're getting the spin wrong. The spin is that he called the troops in Iraq stupid.

 

[dahunan]

I would FEEL stupid for following this president anywhere.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is what the GOP wants you to believe: That Jonn Kerry, who voluntarily enlisted in the military after graduating from Yale, is saying that members of the military, and not George W. Bush, are uneducated and got us stuck in Iraq.
On the other hand, George W. Bush is saying that attacks on his intelligence are attacks on the troops.

WRONG! What they are saying is that Kerry said that if you don't go to school and get an education you'll wind up in Iraq. In essence calling the people in our volunteer military stupid.

That is the way they are presenting his statement.

No, you are the one saying "if you don't go to school and get an education you'll wind up in Iraq." Kerry was saying if you don't work hard and do your homework you'll get this country stuck in Iraq, like Bush did. Stop blaming the troops for Bush's mess.

Sigh... I know what he meant. I'm saying how it's being spun. You're getting the spin wrong. The spin is that he called the troops in Iraq stupid.

Well, that's republican spin, that's for sure. They should be careful or they'll get dizzy from all that spinning. They were trying to make it a localized election and this is going to nationalize it and make it about Iraq, which could backfire big time on the GOP. I think Dems would be perfectly happy to throw Kerry under the bus in exchnage for focusing this election on Iraq.

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: xenolith
Personally, I don't think it's too "mental" to believe John Kerry was caught in yet another Freudian slip.

Ok so you ARE aknowledging that Kerry didn't mean to say that. In that case you're aknowledging if the White House thought the same way they deliberately comprimised the war effort in Iraq for political gain and risked demoralizing US troops by falsely asserting that a Senator and war hero had deliberately insulted them when they knew this was not the case.

No. I think subconsciously that's what he believes given his past anti-military statements (see my earlier post this thread). But it was like his "botched joke" trailed off into words he didn't mean to say and were unrelated to earlier context, hence, it was a Freudian slip.

Spoken words mean something. Kerry's offensive words about our military are now out there and can't be taken back unless he apologizes. And that's what many veterans, (myself included) are demanding.

 

[nageov3t]

definitely stupid comments -- some of the smartest guys from my prep school went to west point and are now in Iraq -- but I don't think Kerry is representative of the democratic party as a whole.

his political career as a major player was over after running one of the worst presidential campaigns in recent history.

 

[theeedude]

I disagree. I think he clarified what he meant, and that is that he was talking about president Bush, and not the troops. So at this point, people who continue to claim that he was criticizing the troops even after he clearly said he wasn't, are lying and trying to score cheap political points based on a falsehood. I can see how McCain may have had a point to say what he did before Kerry clarified his comments, but Bush and others have been repeating it after Kerry made it very clear what he meant, so at this point they are just trying to shift blame from themselves onto the troops in a very cynical fashion.