do you think that Tookie Williams should executed?

[eits]

Originally posted by: Ranger X

Originally posted by: eits
1, you can't expect death row inmates who were raised on the streets to write nytimes best sellers.

2, at least he's being proactive in trying to improve society.

3, he killed people... yeah, that's terrible and dispicable and whatnot. but i don't understand why you people seem to miss the point (maybe it's because your judgement and perception is so clouded with anger and "righteousness" that you forget) that someone who does something like that DESERVES TO SUFFER FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE! what the hell kind of life-long suffering is dying in your sleep (that's what they do... in the gas chamber, after 2 breaths of hydrocyanic gas, you pass out... then, you're pronounced dead after a matter of minutes)?! that's not suffering... that's called being painlessly knocked out and never snapping out of it. LET THE ASSHOLE ROT IN PRISON FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE!

1. My God, who the hell cares if he wrote a children's novel. The point is, the jury found him guilty of the crimes and he was sentenced to DEATH. He was not sentenced to rot in prison for the rest of his life .. so what you're telling me is, all that money we spent on the trial, the result, and the whole process doesn't matter? Why even go to trial when none of that matters, in your case? What he does after the murders is irrelevent.

2. That's because he's DESPERATE. Wouldn't you do the same if your life was on the line?

3. Let him rot in jail on our tab? NO THANK YOU! Our jails are overcrowded as it is. Why let him rot in jail for the rest of his life when he was sentenced to death?

1, it costs more money to put a man to death

2, who cares what his motivation is? as long as he's doing it, who cares? let's say, for argument sake, that he's doing it all because he's desperate not to die... it's changing SOMEONE'S life, no matter what his real motivation is.

3, see #1. also, if schwarzenegger granted clemancy, it would overturn the death sentence. that's the whole point of it being in the news...

you're not too bright, are you?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
The death penalty has never been a deterrent for crime (if it was why are we still having to execute), it costs more then life in prison, and innocent people have been PROVEN to have been put to death for various reasons (racism, socio-economic status, lack of accesses to an adequate legal defense.)

Take a look at history before you quote an eye for an eye! The world is not black and white, ATOT.

Quoted for fallacy.

The death penalty will give those who testified against him (and their families) some relief, as will the families of his victims.

He deserves no relief, he has never admitted guilt, and he sold a whopping 400 children's books.

And he's going to be dead in a matter of hours, that's black & white.

Goodby Tookie the murderer.

it's spelled "goodbye"

and even if he's guilty of murder (which i believe he is), he deserves worse than death. he deserves to stay alive and rot away in a jail cell. why give him the ease of a painless and easy death? not only that, but by keeping him alive, you'd be helping society and counteracting the ugliness that took the victims lives. not only THAT, but his death will probably INCREASE the amount of deaths of innocent people due to a) race-related crimes, b) no real figure counteracting gangs and violence....

tookie's gonna die by lethal injection.... that means he gets an injection to peacefully put him to sleep, another shot to paralyze him while he's peacefully asleep, and another shot to stop his heart.

yeah, that really sounds like what he deserves.... that sounds WAAAAY worse than more years of staring at the same ugly, cold walls and eating the same slop everyday.

Well at least you didn't decide to use some half-assed misguided moral argument. Instead, by coldly mocking a person who has been personally touched by murder, and by admitted the truth that life in prison is more cruel that the death penalty, you simply throw out any and all moral argument you might have used entirely. You're just a POS, filled with fear and vengeance. Nice work...

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Vic
Considering that I believe life in prison without the possibility of parole to be crueler than the death penalty, I think he's getting off easy.

he is... and that's not fair. he needs to rot, not die peacefully.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: eits

1, it costs more money to put a man to death

2, who cares what his motivation is? as long as he's doing it, who cares? let's say, for argument sake, that he's doing it all because he's desperate not to die... it's changing SOMEONE'S life, no matter what his real motivation is.

3, see #1. also, if schwarzenegger granted clemancy, it would overturn the death sentence. that's the whole point of it being in the news...

you're not too bright, are you?

1. only under our current system. Only because of useless, endless appeals.

2. Who's life does it change? Certainly not the victims, nor the victims families.

3. Schwarzenegger did not have legal grounds to grant clemency. Tookie got a legally fair trial, he was legally found guilty by a jury of his peers, and was given the legal death penalty. After decades of appeals, all of that was proven and his legal sentence was upheld. Mercy clemency is held for those who are repentent, which tookie is not.

 

[Vic]

The "it costs more" argument is a fallacy. It only costs more because ideologically-driven groups and individuals with no respect for our legal system demand decades of appeals for convicted murderers. Absent this unbelievable patience of our legal system, the death penalty would cost a lot less. So kindly don't pretend the problem you create is an argument in your favor. It's insulting.

 

[Toonces]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Ranger X

Originally posted by: eits
1, you can't expect death row inmates who were raised on the streets to write nytimes best sellers.

2, at least he's being proactive in trying to improve society.

3, he killed people... yeah, that's terrible and dispicable and whatnot. but i don't understand why you people seem to miss the point (maybe it's because your judgement and perception is so clouded with anger and "righteousness" that you forget) that someone who does something like that DESERVES TO SUFFER FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE! what the hell kind of life-long suffering is dying in your sleep (that's what they do... in the gas chamber, after 2 breaths of hydrocyanic gas, you pass out... then, you're pronounced dead after a matter of minutes)?! that's not suffering... that's called being painlessly knocked out and never snapping out of it. LET THE ASSHOLE ROT IN PRISON FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE!

1. My God, who the hell cares if he wrote a children's novel. The point is, the jury found him guilty of the crimes and he was sentenced to DEATH. He was not sentenced to rot in prison for the rest of his life .. so what you're telling me is, all that money we spent on the trial, the result, and the whole process doesn't matter? Why even go to trial when none of that matters, in your case? What he does after the murders is irrelevent.

2. That's because he's DESPERATE. Wouldn't you do the same if your life was on the line?

3. Let him rot in jail on our tab? NO THANK YOU! Our jails are overcrowded as it is. Why let him rot in jail for the rest of his life when he was sentenced to death?

1, it costs more money to put a man to death

2, who cares what his motivation is? as long as he's doing it, who cares? let's say, for argument sake, that he's doing it all because he's desperate not to die... it's changing SOMEONE'S life, no matter what his real motivation is.

3, see #1. also, if schwarzenegger granted clemancy, it would overturn the death sentence. that's the whole point of it being in the news...

you're not too bright, are you?

1. really applies to how much money is spent on appeals for sentences of death (automatic) rather than simply life where appeals are voluntary. The costs of the execution is much less than the 40+ years of housing within a penetentiary.

Needless to say, once you start putting pricetags on the lives of human beings (criminals or not) it's starting to hurt the credibility of the argument. And this is coming from someone who dosen't support the death penalty - but for reasons other than monetary.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic
Considering that I believe life in prison without the possibility of parole to be crueler than the death penalty, I think he's getting off easy.

he is... and that's not fair. he needs to rot, not die peacefully.

Thankfully, our democratic process does not agree with your cruelty, and provides a system wherein the families of the murdered may have peace and closure.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

He blew people's heads off with a shotgun and was convicted and sentenced to the death penalty. He wasn't sentenced to "25 years and then life." I don't believe in commuting punishment unless evidence can prove he's innocent.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
The death penalty has never been a deterrent for crime (if it was why are we still having to execute), it costs more then life in prison, and innocent people have been PROVEN to have been put to death for various reasons (racism, socio-economic status, lack of accesses to an adequate legal defense.)

Take a look at history before you quote an eye for an eye! The world is not black and white, ATOT.

Quoted for fallacy.

The death penalty will give those who testified against him (and their families) some relief, as will the families of his victims.

He deserves no relief, he has never admitted guilt, and he sold a whopping 400 children's books.

And he's going to be dead in a matter of hours, that's black & white.

Goodby Tookie the murderer.

it's spelled "goodbye"

and even if he's guilty of murder (which i believe he is), he deserves worse than death. he deserves to stay alive and rot away in a jail cell. why give him the ease of a painless and easy death? not only that, but by keeping him alive, you'd be helping society and counteracting the ugliness that took the victims lives. not only THAT, but his death will probably INCREASE the amount of deaths of innocent people due to a) race-related crimes, b) no real figure counteracting gangs and violence....

tookie's gonna die by lethal injection.... that means he gets an injection to peacefully put him to sleep, another shot to paralyze him while he's peacefully asleep, and another shot to stop his heart.

yeah, that really sounds like what he deserves.... that sounds WAAAAY worse than more years of staring at the same ugly, cold walls and eating the same slop everyday.

Well at least you didn't decide to use some half-assed misguided moral argument. Instead, by coldly mocking a person who has been personally touched by murder, and by admitted the truth that life in prison is more cruel that the death penalty, you simply throw out any and all moral argument you might have used entirely. You're just a POS, filled with fear and vengeance. Nice work...

i'm filled with fear and vengeance? how is that possible when i'm the one against this dude being executed?

life in prison isn't more cruel than the death penalty. i don't know where the hell you got that. life in prison is the fitting crime for killing someone... you have to live through your life, but can't be free or do anything enjoyable or have any privacy. the only way to escape it is death... tookie's getting a free ticket out of punishment.

idiot.

as for "mocking someone who's been touched by murder" or whatever... kiss my ass. i mocked HIM... not his murdered family member. it's not transferable by association...

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Um... death IS punishment.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
The death penalty has never been a deterrent for crime (if it was why are we still having to execute), it costs more then life in prison, and innocent people have been PROVEN to have been put to death for various reasons (racism, socio-economic status, lack of accesses to an adequate legal defense.)

Take a look at history before you quote an eye for an eye! The world is not black and white, ATOT.

Quoted for fallacy.

The death penalty will give those who testified against him (and their families) some relief, as will the families of his victims.

He deserves no relief, he has never admitted guilt, and he sold a whopping 400 children's books.

And he's going to be dead in a matter of hours, that's black & white.

Goodby Tookie the murderer.

it's spelled "goodbye"

and even if he's guilty of murder (which i believe he is), he deserves worse than death. he deserves to stay alive and rot away in a jail cell. why give him the ease of a painless and easy death? not only that, but by keeping him alive, you'd be helping society and counteracting the ugliness that took the victims lives. not only THAT, but his death will probably INCREASE the amount of deaths of innocent people due to a) race-related crimes, b) no real figure counteracting gangs and violence....

tookie's gonna die by lethal injection.... that means he gets an injection to peacefully put him to sleep, another shot to paralyze him while he's peacefully asleep, and another shot to stop his heart.

yeah, that really sounds like what he deserves.... that sounds WAAAAY worse than more years of staring at the same ugly, cold walls and eating the same slop everyday.

Well at least you didn't decide to use some half-assed misguided moral argument. Instead, by coldly mocking a person who has been personally touched by murder, and by admitted the truth that life in prison is more cruel that the death penalty, you simply throw out any and all moral argument you might have used entirely. You're just a POS, filled with fear and vengeance. Nice work...

i'm filled with fear and vengeance? how is that possible when i'm the one against this dude being executed?

life in prison isn't more cruel than the death penalty. i don't know where the hell you got that. life in prison is the fitting crime for killing someone... you have to live through your life, but can't be free or do anything enjoyable or have any privacy. the only way to escape it is death... tookie's getting a free ticket out of punishment.

idiot.

as for "mocking someone who's been touched by murder" or whatever... kiss my ass. i mocked HIM... not his murdered family member. it's not transferable by association...

Hey, man, I just took your argument, showed you what it really looked like, and used it against you. You can't change it now that's it bitten you in the ass.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic
Considering that I believe life in prison without the possibility of parole to be crueler than the death penalty, I think he's getting off easy.

he is... and that's not fair. he needs to rot, not die peacefully.

Thankfully, our democratic process does not agree with your cruelty, and provides a system wherein the families of the murdered may have peace and closure.

"cruelty"?? are you a retard?

you honestly think a nazi lesson in chemical injections isn't cruel or unusual punishment? you honestly think lethal injection isn't a morbid show-and-tell of some demented nazi doctor's experiment?

give me a break, dude...

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Nik
Um... death IS punishment.

death isn't punishment.... death is a free pass out of punishment.

why do you think there are suicide watches for convicts whenever their ass hits the cold pavement of their jail cell?

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
The death penalty has never been a deterrent for crime (if it was why are we still having to execute), it costs more then life in prison, and innocent people have been PROVEN to have been put to death for various reasons (racism, socio-economic status, lack of accesses to an adequate legal defense.)

Take a look at history before you quote an eye for an eye! The world is not black and white, ATOT.

Quoted for fallacy.

The death penalty will give those who testified against him (and their families) some relief, as will the families of his victims.

He deserves no relief, he has never admitted guilt, and he sold a whopping 400 children's books.

And he's going to be dead in a matter of hours, that's black & white.

Goodby Tookie the murderer.

it's spelled "goodbye"

and even if he's guilty of murder (which i believe he is), he deserves worse than death. he deserves to stay alive and rot away in a jail cell. why give him the ease of a painless and easy death? not only that, but by keeping him alive, you'd be helping society and counteracting the ugliness that took the victims lives. not only THAT, but his death will probably INCREASE the amount of deaths of innocent people due to a) race-related crimes, b) no real figure counteracting gangs and violence....

tookie's gonna die by lethal injection.... that means he gets an injection to peacefully put him to sleep, another shot to paralyze him while he's peacefully asleep, and another shot to stop his heart.

yeah, that really sounds like what he deserves.... that sounds WAAAAY worse than more years of staring at the same ugly, cold walls and eating the same slop everyday.

Well at least you didn't decide to use some half-assed misguided moral argument. Instead, by coldly mocking a person who has been personally touched by murder, and by admitted the truth that life in prison is more cruel that the death penalty, you simply throw out any and all moral argument you might have used entirely. You're just a POS, filled with fear and vengeance. Nice work...

i'm filled with fear and vengeance? how is that possible when i'm the one against this dude being executed?

life in prison isn't more cruel than the death penalty. i don't know where the hell you got that. life in prison is the fitting crime for killing someone... you have to live through your life, but can't be free or do anything enjoyable or have any privacy. the only way to escape it is death... tookie's getting a free ticket out of punishment.

idiot.

as for "mocking someone who's been touched by murder" or whatever... kiss my ass. i mocked HIM... not his murdered family member. it's not transferable by association...

Hey, man, I just took your argument, showed you what it really looked like, and used it against you. You can't change it now that's it bitten you in the ass.

??? uh, the only thing biting me is your lack of common sense (which is ironic, since you've got a quote from thomas paine in your sig)

and what the hell are you talking about? you didn't take anything of mine and use it against me. all you did was make up some stuff about how i admitted that life in prison is cruel or some crap (which is the dumbest line of bullsh!t i've ever heard).

EDIT: i think i figured out the problem. i had to think like a moron in order to figure out how you came to the conclusion that i was saying that life in prison was cruel.

there's a huge difference between saying "life in jail is worse than death" and saying "life in jail is cruel."

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Nik
He blew people's heads off with a shotgun and was convicted and sentenced to the death penalty. He wasn't sentenced to "25 years and then life." I don't believe in commuting punishment unless evidence can prove he's innocent.

Given that the only REAL argument that the anti-capital punishment have is that the legal system is flawed, that a person convicted by a jury of his peers with evidence providing proof beyond reasonable doubt may have been falsely convicted, despite the incredibly thorough analysis of 25 years of appeals, you can't really expect these people to demonstrate any respect for the law now, can you?
If they had any respect for the law, they would use the democratic process to get the law changed, not hold up and make a mockery of our legal system at great taxpayer expense.

 

[Lurknomore]

He's a cold-blooded killer who's such a coward that he wrote childrens books as evidence for his "reform". It's a ruse, pure and simple. All of his supporters- Rev. Jackson, Jamie Fox, Snoop- they're all pure con men.
If it were up to me, I'd put him in an orange jumpsuit and offer Zarqawi money to execute him on video. For kick and giggles.:thumbsup:

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Nik
He blew people's heads off with a shotgun and was convicted and sentenced to the death penalty. He wasn't sentenced to "25 years and then life." I don't believe in commuting punishment unless evidence can prove he's innocent.

Given that the only REAL argument that the anti-capital punishment have is that the legal system is flawed, that a person convicted by a jury of his peers with evidence providing proof beyond reasonable doubt may have been falsely convicted, despite the incredibly thorough analysis of 25 years of appeals, you can't really expect these people to demonstrate any respect for the law now, can you?
If they had any respect for the law, they would use the democratic process to get the law changed, not hold up and make a mockery of our legal system at great taxpayer expense.

you keep talking about the "taxpayers expense".... stfu already.

everyone knows that life in prison is CHEAPER than executing someone.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic
Considering that I believe life in prison without the possibility of parole to be crueler than the death penalty, I think he's getting off easy.

he is... and that's not fair. he needs to rot, not die peacefully.

Thankfully, our democratic process does not agree with your cruelty, and provides a system wherein the families of the murdered may have peace and closure.

"cruelty"?? are you a retard?

you honestly think a nazi lesson in chemical injections isn't cruel or unusual punishment? you honestly think lethal injection isn't a morbid show-and-tell of some demented nazi doctor's experiment?

give me a break, dude...

Oh, you're right... life in a 6x9 cell solitary confinement cell isn't cruel... :roll:

As to your abuse of the phrase "cruel and unusual," shall we go back to hangings then? As the framers of the consitution used (and far more frequently than we do now) to execute their criminals? You must be completely unaware that the idea of actual life in prison, and the use of pentitentiaries, did not come into existence until the founding of Sing Sing in 1828, almost 40 years after the 8th Amendment was written and ratified.

 

[MiniDoom]

Originally posted by: Lurknomore
He's a cold-blooded killer who's such a coward that he wrote childrens books as evidence for his "reform". It's a ruse, pure and simple. All of his supporters- Rev. Jackson, Jamie Fox, Snoop- they're all pure con men.
If it were up to me, I'd put him in an orange jumpsuit and offer Zarqawi money to execute him on video. For kick and giggles.:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

 

[ZOXXO]

No.

How can killing people show that killing people is wrong?

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic
Considering that I believe life in prison without the possibility of parole to be crueler than the death penalty, I think he's getting off easy.

he is... and that's not fair. he needs to rot, not die peacefully.

Thankfully, our democratic process does not agree with your cruelty, and provides a system wherein the families of the murdered may have peace and closure.

"cruelty"?? are you a retard?

you honestly think a nazi lesson in chemical injections isn't cruel or unusual punishment? you honestly think lethal injection isn't a morbid show-and-tell of some demented nazi doctor's experiment?

give me a break, dude...

Oh, you're right... life in a 6x9 cell solitary confinement cell isn't cruel... :roll:

As to your abuse of the phrase "cruel and unusual," shall we go back to hangings then? As the framers of the consitution used (and far more frequently than we do now) to execute their criminals? You must be completely unaware that the idea of actual life in prison, and the use of pentitentiaries, did not come into existence until the founding of Sing Sing in 1828, almost 40 years after the 8th Amendment was written and ratified.

you're right. it isn't. it's called PUNISHMENT. you have to forfeit your lifestyle and belongings (everything you knew during your life as a free man) and live your life in a jail cell. killing him ISN'T punishment... that's called freeing him from punishment.

goddamn, what's wrong with this guy?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Nik
He blew people's heads off with a shotgun and was convicted and sentenced to the death penalty. He wasn't sentenced to "25 years and then life." I don't believe in commuting punishment unless evidence can prove he's innocent.

Given that the only REAL argument that the anti-capital punishment have is that the legal system is flawed, that a person convicted by a jury of his peers with evidence providing proof beyond reasonable doubt may have been falsely convicted, despite the incredibly thorough analysis of 25 years of appeals, you can't really expect these people to demonstrate any respect for the law now, can you?
If they had any respect for the law, they would use the democratic process to get the law changed, not hold up and make a mockery of our legal system at great taxpayer expense.

you keep talking about the "taxpayers expense".... stfu already.

everyone knows that life in prison is CHEAPER than executing someone.

No, it is not. It cost less to execute someone than it does to house them for 1 single year in prison. I already addressed this just a few posts above (which you obviously ignored). This "it costs more" argument that you keep citing (and supposedly "everyone knows") is from the cost of the lengthy (in this particular case, 25 years, which was outrageous) appeals process SOLELY. Not the execution. And this is a problem which the anti-capital punishment crowd creates. You cannot use a problem which you intentionally create as an argument in your favor. So "stfu already"

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Vic
Considering that I believe life in prison without the possibility of parole to be crueler than the death penalty, I think he's getting off easy.

he is... and that's not fair. he needs to rot, not die peacefully.

Thankfully, our democratic process does not agree with your cruelty, and provides a system wherein the families of the murdered may have peace and closure.

"cruelty"?? are you a retard?

you honestly think a nazi lesson in chemical injections isn't cruel or unusual punishment? you honestly think lethal injection isn't a morbid show-and-tell of some demented nazi doctor's experiment?

give me a break, dude...

Oh, you're right... life in a 6x9 cell solitary confinement cell isn't cruel... :roll:

As to your abuse of the phrase "cruel and unusual," shall we go back to hangings then? As the framers of the consitution used (and far more frequently than we do now) to execute their criminals? You must be completely unaware that the idea of actual life in prison, and the use of pentitentiaries, did not come into existence until the founding of Sing Sing in 1828, almost 40 years after the 8th Amendment was written and ratified.

you're right. it isn't. it's called PUNISHMENT. you have to forfeit your lifestyle and belongings (everything you knew during your life as a free man) and live your life in a jail cell. killing him ISN'T punishment... that's called freeing him from punishment.

goddamn, what's wrong with this guy?

The only thing "wrong with this guy" is that you keep changing your argument based on how the wind blows and "this guy" keeps calling you out on it.
I imagine it must sting a bit to be proven so stupid.

 

[xenocyd3]

everyone here acts like tookie is some kind of mega killer... and they use him founding the crips as some kind of support to make him look worse.... the crips at first was not really a "gang"...

and theres no hard proof that tookie killed those 3 people.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: ZOXXO
No.

How can killing people show that killing people is wrong?

:thumbsup: