• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Question Do you think GPU stock/prices will get back to normal before end of the year?

Page 17 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
23,649
1,527
126
I don't think you can really trust Dell XPS for higher end gaming PCs. Couldn't believe the way their garbage cooler and single channel RAM murdered the performance of a 3070 in this system for example:

Dell's quality control seems to be getting worse lately, which is shocking because it was never all that great to begin with. The tech support has always been bad, too. You should check out the Linus Tech Tips pre-built challenge if you want an idea how bad it is now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
3,481
1,917
136
Dell's quality control seems to be getting worse lately, which is shocking because it was never all that great to begin with. The tech support has always been bad, too. You should check out the Linus Tech Tips pre-built challenge if you want an idea how bad it is now.
Speaking of their atrocious tech support, In the next video in that series Dell's solution was to turn off turbo boost so that i7-10700 ran at like 2.8 GHz lol.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,363
2,051
136
For instance, I was pleasantly surprised to find my 3070 only drawing 123W at 62 MH/s...until I measured it at the wall and it was 178W.
You sure 178W is card-only power? Because at-wall power includes your system.

I've been playing around with the idea of using Pentium Silver J5005 so I can cut the system power down to 10-15W. It has 2 pci express slots so it'll be enough.
 

aleader

Senior member
Oct 28, 2013
483
144
116
You sure 178W is card-only power? Because at-wall power includes your system.

I've been playing around with the idea of using Pentium Silver J5005 so I can cut the system power down to 10-15W. It has 2 pci express slots so it'll be enough.
At the wall, so yes, the whole system. It's still making about $5.50 USD per day after power, I was just expecting less power use overall. It's in my main system though with a 5600X/B550, but I'm not sure what's drawing all the power. The CPU isn't even being used. 12W more system use than my 4670/H81 with a 1660 super and very old OCZ 600w PSU.
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,073
1,452
136
178W, meaning rest of the system is using roughly 50W, sounds reasonable, 35W for the PC without videocard, 128W for videocard and the rest is 10% due to power supply efficiency AC to DC loss.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lightmanek

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,363
2,051
136
It's in my main system though with a 5600X/B550, but I'm not sure what's drawing all the power.
You are not at 0W because you aren't using the system. The CPU draws a few W at idle, RAM uses few W by itself, having the motherboard active uses little bit, the storage uses extra, the fan uses a small amount, and there's power supply losses as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

aleader

Senior member
Oct 28, 2013
483
144
116
You are not at 0W because you aren't using the system. The CPU draws a few W at idle, RAM uses few W by itself, having the motherboard active uses little bit, the storage uses extra, the fan uses a small amount, and there's power supply losses as well.
I know it uses power, but I'm just comparing it to my other 'mining' system that uses 111 W with the 1660 Super in it. That's about 41W for the system with a (I'm assuming) very inefficient power supply hooked to it (the 600W OCZ). My main system with the 3070 has a new 750W Gold PSU in it. My 5700XT with a Z97/4670k only uses 158W at the wall too (550W B5 EVGA PSU). All I can think is that it must be the B550 and/or 5600X.
 

Roger Wilco

Senior member
Mar 20, 2017
931
558
136
If you are a True Believer and that crypto is the future and ETH is long term viable and they won’t fork and kill your stock pile, calculating ROI on today’s prices is silly.

Go back eight or so years and believe in your heart of hearts that BTC would sustain value over $50k for real and it would be a different calculation. Those who both believed, kept mining and HODL’d for the future are doing fine though.

I would wager some miners don’t have their eyes on today but on a more distant horizon.
If mining profitability decreases to a net loss, wouldn't it make more sense to just shut down the GPU and buy the coins outright, at least until mining becomes profitable again?

There are a number of high yield crypto savings accounts popping up as well. Buying coins and getting them to earn 10% APY asap seems like a a nice alternative when mining profits decline.

This is all new to me though, so I'm sure there are many variables I'm not taking into account.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
7,682
912
126
www.teamjuchems.com
If mining profitability decreases to a net loss, wouldn't it make more sense to just shut down the GPU and buy the coins outright, at least until mining becomes profitable again?

There are a number of high yield crypto savings accounts popping up as well. Buying coins and getting them to earn 10% APY asap seems like a a nice alternative when mining profits decline.

This is all new to me though, so I'm sure there are many variables I'm not taking into account.
One would think. This is the approach I have been favoring, albeit with tiny amounts of money.

The other thought is - mine a lot, until the difficulty outclasses your hardware. Then time your exit well enough to get your money back on the GPUs, meaning you got their use for "free" and really the only cost was electricity and taxes.

Some people don't pay for their electricity and don't care. Others have their bills on autopay so they are invisible and thus zero :D Other people, as @aleader has pointed out, just don't both factoring input costs and see all payouts as 100% profit and the value of the cards they bought as something that happened in the past and therefor not worthy of consideration :D

But yeah, get in your time machine, pick a moment in time when you could get a BTC for $300 then consider mining on a number of $300 GPUs until you had enough BTC to "pay for it" or.... you could have just bought BTC.

I think the idea of conjuring money out of the Internet is really powerful.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,730
2,488
136
What kind of PSU are you using? There's a good chance a lot of power is being lost when the PSU is converting the electricity. Even if it's 80+ most power supplies aren't very efficient if they're only operating at a small amount of their rated capacity. If it's something like an 800W PSU, moving down to something closer to the actual draw will be more efficient at the wall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,073
1,452
136
If mining profitability decreases to a net loss, wouldn't it make more sense to just shut down the GPU and buy the coins outright, at least until mining becomes profitable again?
Yes, if crypto prices decline to the point where one is not making money after electricity costs, then yes, it makes more sense to shut down miners and just buy crypto on an exchange. In that case the only people mining would be people living in apartments where electricity is part of the rent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

aleader

Senior member
Oct 28, 2013
483
144
116
What kind of PSU are you using? There's a good chance a lot of power is being lost when the PSU is converting the electricity. Even if it's 80+ most power supplies aren't very efficient if they're only operating at a small amount of their rated capacity. If it's something like an 800W PSU, moving down to something closer to the actual draw will be more efficient at the wall.
It's this one: https://www.newegg.ca/evga-supernova-750-g1-120-gp-0750-x1-750w/p/N82E16817438132

After all the time I spent picking a PSU, there's no way I'm going to change it now ;). I actually could have easily got away with a 650w, which would have about 1/2 used with a 3070 when gaming, but got the 750 for less than the price of the 650 at the time, so picked it instead. I mean, to keep it 'close' I would need a 250W PSU, which I don't think exists anyways. I don't plan on ever upgrading that again unless it fails. This mining thing is only temporary.

I did see about a 10w drop when I changed out my OCZ 600w to a 80+ Bronze B5 550w in my other rig (with the 5700XT). That only adds up to a whopping $12.29 CAD per year if used 24/7:

https://www.saskpower.com/Efficiency-Programs-and-Tips/Saving-Power-at-Home/Analyze-Your-Use/Power-Consumption-Calculator
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
3,458
3,698
136
It's this one: https://www.newegg.ca/evga-supernova-750-g1-120-gp-0750-x1-750w/p/N82E16817438132

After all the time I spent picking a PSU, there's no way I'm going to change it now ;). I actually could have easily got away with a 650w, which would have about 1/2 used with a 3070 when gaming, but got the 750 for less than the price of the 650 at the time, so picked it instead. I mean, to keep it 'close' I would need a 250W PSU, which I don't think exists anyways. I don't plan on ever upgrading that again unless it fails. This mining thing is only temporary.

I did see about a 10w drop when I changed out my OCZ 600w to a 80+ Bronze B5 550w in my other rig (with the 5700XT). That only adds up to a whopping $12.29 CAD per year if used 24/7:

https://www.saskpower.com/Efficiency-Programs-and-Tips/Saving-Power-at-Home/Analyze-Your-Use/Power-Consumption-Calculator
Most PSUs see max efficiency ~50% of max rated power, just FYI.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea and Mopetar

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,730
2,488
136
I forget exactly where it kicks in, but I think for an 80+ Gold, it isn't going to require it to hit the rated efficiency levels below 25% of the total draw, which for a 750W PSU is around 180W so coming in below that could be a lot less efficient than you might expect. It's not going to be abysmal, but like Hitman said, most power supplies are going to see peak efficiency at around half of the max rated power.

Really this just means you should add another card to the system so that it bumps up the load on the PSU to make it more efficient. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

aleader

Senior member
Oct 28, 2013
483
144
116
I forget exactly where it kicks in, but I think for an 80+ Gold, it isn't going to require it to hit the rated efficiency levels below 25% of the total draw, which for a 750W PSU is around 180W so coming in below that could be a lot less efficient than you might expect. It's not going to be abysmal, but like Hitman said, most power supplies are going to see peak efficiency at around half of the max rated power.

Really this just means you should add another card to the system so that it bumps up the load on the PSU to make it more efficient. :p
Ha, you're funny...another GPU! 🤣 At 50w system use, it's not like it's burning the house down or anything. With all this 'you must get an 80+ gold' efficiency talk, I was rather surprised that my 13+ year old 12lb OCZ PSU is only drawing 111W with the 1660 Super (69W for the card). Once I start gaming with the 3070 again, it will get up close to the proper efficiency at least.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
3,481
1,917
136
Dell's quality control seems to be getting worse lately, which is shocking because it was never all that great to begin with. The tech support has always been bad, too. You should check out the Linus Tech Tips pre-built challenge if you want an idea how bad it is now.
JFC, I just saw his video series and Dell signing that woman up for two warranties you couldn't even choose in parallel on the website (since they're so similar) for $300 after she repeatedly told them no. What a garbage company. I'm going to show that video to everyone I know who is looking to buy a computer because many of them think Dell is trustworthy. That is just straight up fraud.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,730
2,488
136
Ha, you're funny...another GPU! 🤣 At 50w system use, it's not like it's burning the house down or anything. With all this 'you must get an 80+ gold' efficiency talk, I was rather surprised that my 13+ year old 12lb OCZ PSU is only drawing 111W with the 1660 Super (69W for the card). Once I start gaming with the 3070 again, it will get up close to the proper efficiency at least.
80+ just means a PSU is guaranteed to get at least a certain amount of efficiency at various points across the rated capacity.

Even PSUs that aren't certified can still be quite efficient, particularly when the run near the percentage load at the top of the efficiency curve.

Without reading a review you wouldn't know what that is, so the 80+ certification is just a way for consumers to generally know what they're getting without having to do a lot of research.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

aleader

Senior member
Oct 28, 2013
483
144
116
80+ just means a PSU is guaranteed to get at least a certain amount of efficiency at various points across the rated capacity.

Even PSUs that aren't certified can still be quite efficient, particularly when the run near the percentage load at the top of the efficiency curve.

Without reading a review you wouldn't know what that is, so the 80+ certification is just a way for consumers to generally know what they're getting without having to do a lot of research.
I get the certification and why they do it, I just recall a lot of comments saying you must get 'at least' 80+ Gold efficiency, or you may as well flush your cash down the toilet. Some even scoff at Gold as a 'peasant' option and only buy Platinum+. That's just nonsense. The Gold does make sense in most cases now as the Bronze PSU's are usually close to the same price when the warranty is factored in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

Leeea

Senior member
Apr 3, 2020
587
676
96
edit note: This post was edited after Hitman928 made his post below:

Ha, you're funny...another GPU! 🤣 At 50w system use, it's not like it's burning the house down or anything. With all this 'you must get an 80+ gold' efficiency talk, I was rather surprised that my 13+ year old 12lb OCZ PSU is only drawing 111W with the 1660 Super (69W for the card). Once I start gaming with the 3070 again, it will get up close to the proper efficiency at least.
That is a sweet power supply, a good buy. Check out the power graph for it here:
note:
90% efficient at 150 watts. With your 3070 having a advertised average wattage of 220w by itself, it would seem your definitely in the efficiency curve.

Ignore the others, your power supply is excellent for this. The advice you received about getting at least a 80+ gold was correct.


edit note: This post was edited after Hitman928 made his post below
----------------------------------------

You know your going to add another GPU in, right? It took 7 years for me to do it, but I eventually added a 2nd GPU. My 7 year old 650watt evga psu is happily pulling 480 watts off the wall as I type this.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: aleader

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
3,458
3,698
136
That is a sweet power supply, a good buy. Check out the power graph for it here:
notes:
86% efficient at 75 watts
88% efficient at 100 watts.
90% efficient at 150 watts.
91% efficient at 250 watts.

Ignore the others, your power supply is excellent for this. The advice you received about getting at least a 80+ gold was correct.

----------------------------------------

You know your going to add another GPU in, right? It took 7 years for me to do it, but I eventually added a 2nd GPU. My 7 year old 650watt evga psu is happily pulling 480* watts off the wall as I type this.


*210-GQ-0650-V1 running rx6900xt + vega56 + 4790k + cooling as it mines** eth + me using the computer
** 91.53 Mh @ 480w /w .13 kWh = $5.75 profit per day or $2099.45 per year
That's a different PSU that is Platinum rated.
 

Leeea

Senior member
Apr 3, 2020
587
676
96
That's a different PSU that is Platinum rated.
Blah!
round 2:

which annoyingly cuts the graph off at 20%, or 150 watts.

but that likely does not matter, as he is using a 3070 which is >200w card.

(I will go up and correct my original post, eventually)
 
Last edited:

ASK THE COMMUNITY