Do You Have a Religion, and Why?

[kage69]

Ah, but those men do what they do and claim to do it in the name of "God

Ok. And?

Who is the keeper of the faith, who can tell you what is really the truth?

No one and no one. Unless it's a math professor and the topic is math.

For you, only you can.

I can live with that.

Much has been done in the name of "God" and much will be done in the name of "God", most of it actions that men don't want to be responsible for so they say it is "Gods" will.

Yeah, intellectual bankruptcy and propaganda go great together, don't they?

To me all gods, races, countries are the same, we are men, no matter how much we try to blame it on some higher force, we are ALL responsible for what we do, no matter which god we may pray to

Hear hear!

To claim it is the will of god is something that both christians and muslim fundamentals do when they know they are doing something wrong.

It's the ultimate cop-out employed by broken individuals. No more.

 

[Moonbeam]

So the people took the fire-sticks and the flints and the burnt out coal and the lava rock and the charred tree and erected temples around them and prayed and prayed. And the doubters came and scorned them and said, "See your God is dead."

 

[Moonbeam]

This forum is lucky to have a philosopher of your caliber Moonbeam. I applaud you.

Thank you, but I have to be honest. What you see in me is just yourself in the mirror. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and in this case it's your eye the beauty is in. Congrtatulations. And that beauty pertains regardless of what I really am.

"The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which he sees me." Meister Echart.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
So the people took the fire-sticks and the flints and the burnt out coal and the lava rock and the charred tree and erected temples around them and prayed and prayed. And the doubters came and scorned them and said, "See your God is dead."

silly rabit,



trix are for kids.

To claim it is the will of god is something that both christians and muslim fundamentals do when they know they are doing something wrong.

It?s simple to tell who's liar and who's an observer... is it about love and forgiveness?

People make stuff up all day long, but if it's not about love and forgiveness then it's not about 'Gods will';

 

[TheBDB]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

So the people took the fire-sticks and the flints and the burnt out coal and the lava rock and the charred tree and erected temples around them and prayed and prayed. And the doubters came and scorned them and said, "See your God is dead."

silly rabit,







trix are for kids.

To claim it is the will of god is something that both christians and muslim fundamentals do when they know they are doing something wrong.

It?s simple to tell who's liar and who's an observer... is it about love and forgiveness?



People make stuff up all day long, but if it's not about love and forgiveness then it's not about 'Gods will';

Read up about the Christian God of a couple hundred years ago. The whole idea of a loving and forgiving god is new....I guess because the regular people got tired of god being a prick.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

The whole idea of a loving and forgiving god is new....I guess because the regular people got tired of god being a prick.

Actually it's Jesus? original teachings, but with our society's new found literacy they can read the teachings of Jesus themselves, instead of having a politically motivated church do it.

 

[TheBDB]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

The whole idea of a loving and forgiving god is new....I guess because the regular people got tired of god being a prick.

Actually it's Jesus? original teachings, but with our society's new found literacy they can read the teachings of Jesus themselves, instead of having a politically motivated church do it.

The politically motivated church put together the books of the Bible and translated it....who said they got it right?

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: kage69

Ah, but those men do what they do and claim to do it in the name of "God

Ok. And?

Who is the keeper of the faith, who can tell you what is really the truth?

No one and no one. Unless it's a math professor and the topic is math.

For you, only you can.

I can live with that.

Much has been done in the name of "God" and much will be done in the name of "God", most of it actions that men don't want to be responsible for so they say it is "Gods" will.

Yeah, intellectual bankruptcy and propaganda go great together, don't they?

To me all gods, races, countries are the same, we are men, no matter how much we try to blame it on some higher force, we are ALL responsible for what we do, no matter which god we may pray to

Hear hear!

To claim it is the will of god is something that both christians and muslim fundamentals do when they know they are doing something wrong.

It's the ultimate cop-out employed by broken individuals. No more.

No more.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

So the people took the fire-sticks and the flints and the burnt out coal and the lava rock and the charred tree and erected temples around them and prayed and prayed. And the doubters came and scorned them and said, "See your God is dead."

silly rabit,







trix are for kids.

To claim it is the will of god is something that both christians and muslim fundamentals do when they know they are doing something wrong.

It?s simple to tell who's liar and who's an observer... is it about love and forgiveness?



People make stuff up all day long, but if it's not about love and forgiveness then it's not about 'Gods will';

One day, even you might see that a dead man is nothing but a dead man, nothing more, nothing less, it does not matter if it is your opinion that it was your "gods will" then, does it, he is as much of a father that i am, a much of a husband that i am, as much of a human as i am.

No more.

 

[TFM]

Hmm ... this is an interesting topic - and i must say i am pleasantly surprised to see there isn't too much flaming going on. There's just a couple observations i would like to make.

1) Atheism IS a religion. It is a religion that has it's creed (humanist manifesto) and its followers (atheists). In fact, as i have found in my studies and comparisons, it takes a LOT of faith for one to be an atheist. First, you have to either believe in the theory of Evolution (which is not scientific in the least) or you have to believe that the answer to our existence is there, we just haven't found it yet. As well, atheism has its presuppositions that color the way a person views others' works, such as the fact that there is nothing supernatural - i.e. nothing has ever occurred that goes agains the laws of science as we know them. To claim that you have no religion b/c you are an atheist is not entirely accurate.

2) It was stated earlier "I have no tolerance for the less tolerant." So there is one thing that a person can have no tolerance for then? On The American President, Michael Douglas's character stated about freedom "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend your lifetime oposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land is the land of the free? Then the symbol of this country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also must be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest." As much as i understand that this movie isn't some authority on the subject, i believe it demonstrates a principle that anyone who claims to be "tolerant" must understand - this same tolerance you espouse should be given even to those whose levels of tolerance aren't on the same level as yours. Myself, i find myself an incredibly tolerant individual really. But, at the same time, i don't want to take any chances when it comes to eternity. Here's how i see it and why some people would call me intolerant. God has spoken to us through His word (the Bible) and there are plenty of evidence to back this claim... enough to convince me and many others who are not just blindly following God. In His word, He has outlined His church and provided us some information on how to live life here and what to do to be reunited with Him in Heaven. Potentially, God will accept anyone and everyone into Heaven (though I personally don't believe it - but i'm not God and it's up to Him to do what He thinks should be done). But just to be safe, i will follow God's standards as closely as i can in order to provide myself with the greater chance of being pleasing to Him and having that home in Heaven with Him. And i personally don't feel that i would be comfortable trying any other way than that which he has given - which is why i don't - and which makes me "intolerant" to some.

3) Another poster said this: "Part of me wishes I could believe something like that. I dunno....I still need some sort of REASON to believe, other than if you don't you go to hell. I've searched my heart and looked at the world and I see no evidence of god, or a good reason to believe. My mom says when you witness the birth of a child it leaves you with no doubt about gods existence....I just see biology. Oh well I am very happy with no god in my life and I sure can't make myself believe just because people say I will be happier that way."
To this i would respond, "Amen." A person's faith shouldn't be based on a lack of evidence, that you don't want to go to Hell, or that it will make your life happier. A religion should be based on evidence that leads you to believe that what you believe makes the most sense. Atheists are atheists because when they look at the evidence, they are convinced that all there is is the natural world. When i look at the evidence, i see something much different, a religion that meshes with science and history. I am a Christian because i see no alternative that makes more sense. It IS possible to believe in Christianity if you desire to seek truth with an open mind.

One thing i appreciate is the fact that for the most part, this isn't some kind of flame-war in this thread. For the most part this isn't a bait and bash the religious community. Usually i wouldn't post in a place like this as it usually does no good for anyone. But with some of the posts, i have the feeling that there are some who are genuine in their curiosity. And if you truly are, and want to know more about why i am a Christian, i would love to talk about it in PMs with you.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[kage69]

1) Atheism IS a religion.

You need to keep studying and comparing.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: TFM



1) Atheism IS a religion.

No it is not, it is not a belief system, it cherishes no god, it has no scripture and it has no church.

It is simply a disbelief in any higher power.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
This forum is lucky to have a philosopher of your caliber Moonbeam. I applaud you.

Thank you, but I have to be honest. What you see in me is just yourself in the mirror. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and in this case it's your eye the beauty is in. Congrtatulations. And that beauty pertains regardless of what I really am.

"The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which he sees me." Meister Echart.

So the beauty i see in your words is because it is what i WANTED to say, a mirror of my words expressed in a much more elegant way than i ever could?

I still applaud you for your elegance, honesty and sincerity.

And you are really only you, as i am only me, as we all are, many whome i believed disagreed with me has turned out to be believers of the only thing i know and hold true, which is that pain is ALWAYS pain and that your belief is only yours. What is done in the name of your god, whichever god you may hold high is simply an excuse for your own inhumanity.

So i repeat the words of Kage69, a very wise man, i say

No more!

 

[0roo0roo]

nope, none.

want to see some barbarity? the sadistic nature of the righteous? http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/TheMagdaleneSisters-1124614/
For much of the 20th century in Ireland, the Roman Catholic Church operated a string of laundries, the Magdalene Asylums, where young women accused of "moral crimes" were sent to work and repent. "Moral crimes" could be broadly defined as becoming pregnant, getting raped or even flirting with boys. According to the film, some 30,000 women were incarcerated -- and often sexually abused by priests, and sexually humiliated and beaten by the nuns -- before the last laundry closed in 1996. very interesting movie

http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/2003/08/081502.html

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
nope, none.

want to see some barbarity? the sadistic nature of the righteous? http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/TheMagdaleneSisters-1124614/
For much of the 20th century in Ireland, the Roman Catholic Church operated a string of laundries, the Magdalene Asylums, where young women accused of "moral crimes" were sent to work and repent. "Moral crimes" could be broadly defined as becoming pregnant, getting raped or even flirting with boys. According to the film, some 30,000 women were incarcerated -- and often sexually abused by priests, and sexually humiliated and beaten by the nuns -- before the last laundry closed in 1996. very interesting movie

http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/2003/08/081502.html

You are only supposed to post stuff like that if the perpetrators are muslim. sheesh. :roll:

 

[Moonbeam]

"The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which he sees me." Meister Echart.[/quote]

So the beauty i see in your words is because it is what i WANTED to say, a mirror of my words expressed in a much more elegant way than i ever could?

---------------
Than ever you could>``` Oh I doubt that. Just that the aperception of beauty takes place inside you. It makes you beautiful.

 

[TheBDB]

Originally posted by: TFM
Hmm ... this is an interesting topic - and i must say i am pleasantly surprised to see there isn't too much flaming going on. There's just a couple observations i would like to make.



1) Atheism IS a religion. It is a religion that has it's creed (humanist manifesto) and its followers (atheists). In fact, as i have found in my studies and comparisons, it takes a LOT of faith for one to be an atheist. First, you have to either believe in the theory of Evolution (which is not scientific in the least) or you have to believe that the answer to our existence is there, we just haven't found it yet. As well, atheism has its presuppositions that color the way a person views others' works, such as the fact that there is nothing supernatural - i.e. nothing has ever occurred that goes agains the laws of science as we know them. To claim that you have no religion b/c you are an atheist is not entirely accurate.

Hmmm I am curious to know how you came to these beliefs about atheists. Some would call me an atheist (depending on your definition), so let me comment. First of all, I'm not sure what the humanist manifesto is, so unless I follow it without my knowledge I don't think it is a requirement to be an atheist. Hehe, I sure don't read it on sundays with my fellow atheists. Also, atheism does not require that you accept evolution, and does not require that you believe there is nothing supernatural. I don't know why you think these are a part of atheism, but it does seem to follow a lot of the misconceptions people have about atheism. People assume you have no morals, or believe you are the center of the universe, or other such nonsense. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a diety. Nothing more complex than that.

 

[0roo0roo]

hehe, i believe in the yankees! i believe that makes sports fandom a religion? gah, i believe pc's are better then consoles. ah another religion
everythings a religion!!wee!

) Atheism IS a religion. It is a religion that has it's creed (humanist manifesto)

artificially narrowing down your definition doesn't make it correct, esp when its inaccurate. humanists aren't necessarily athiests. do you believe in zeus? no? i guess your an athiest!

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
"The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which he sees me." Meister Echart.

So the beauty i see in your words is because it is what i WANTED to say, a mirror of my words expressed in a much more elegant way than i ever could?

---------------
Than ever you could>``` Oh I doubt that. Just that the aperception of beauty takes place inside you. It makes you beautiful. [/quote]

Thank you! You are so very kind, it is rare to find such a value in one post.


I share your pain for what you have been through, i admire your strenght and courage. You are indeed a huge man.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
hehe, i believe in the yankees! i believe that makes sports fandom a religion? gah, i believe pc's are better then consoles. ah another religion
everythings a religion!!wee!

) Atheism IS a religion. It is a religion that has it's creed (humanist manifesto)

artificially narrowing down your definition doesn't make it correct, esp when its inaccurate. humanists aren't necessarily athiests. do you believe in zeus? no? i guess your an athiest!

Indeed, there are plenty of gods, i think no man believes in all of them, so we are ALL atheists in a way, of course, this was your excellent point.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Painman
I believe in a God; not as an entity that watches over us but more of a truth that permeates and governs the universe. In a sense, to me, God IS the universe, the manifestation of that truth. Whatever that truth may be, the creature that I am is incapable of fully grasping it, yet capable of sensing it and feeling tied to it.

I think this pretty much sums it up for me as well, I was raised Roman Catholic, went to Catholic high school, and now am pretty much drained of the Church and organized religion, my wife's parents are congregationalists and the father is rather into it, but my wife also doesn't have much for the church save hollidays and such....

I personally cannot understand atheists or anyone that believes once your time here is done then that is it, while logically it makes some sense, emotionally it is hard to deal with. If I have to choose, then I chose the belief that there might be something for me after this life ends.

 

[TheBDB]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Painman

I believe in a God; not as an entity that watches over us but more of a truth that permeates and governs the universe. In a sense, to me, God IS the universe, the manifestation of that truth. Whatever that truth may be, the creature that I am is incapable of fully grasping it, yet capable of sensing it and feeling tied to it.

I think this pretty much sums it up for me as well, I was raised Roman Catholic, went to Catholic high school, and now am pretty much drained of the Church and organized religion, my wife's parents are congregationalists and the father is rather into it, but my wife also doesn't have much for the church save hollidays and such....



I personally cannot understand atheists or anyone that believes once your time here is done then that is it, while logically it makes some sense, emotionally it is hard to deal with. If I have to choose, then I chose the belief that there might be something for me after this life ends.

I like your honesty.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Painman

I believe in a God; not as an entity that watches over us but more of a truth that permeates and governs the universe. In a sense, to me, God IS the universe, the manifestation of that truth. Whatever that truth may be, the creature that I am is incapable of fully grasping it, yet capable of sensing it and feeling tied to it.

I think this pretty much sums it up for me as well, I was raised Roman Catholic, went to Catholic high school, and now am pretty much drained of the Church and organized religion, my wife's parents are congregationalists and the father is rather into it, but my wife also doesn't have much for the church save hollidays and such....



I personally cannot understand atheists or anyone that believes once your time here is done then that is it, while logically it makes some sense, emotionally it is hard to deal with. If I have to choose, then I chose the belief that there might be something for me after this life ends.

I hope that there is, for you, not for myself though, i would like to just rest in nothingness.

You get your wish and i get mine, for both us, it would be heaven.

 

[przero]

TheBDB - The answer to your question is difficult to verbalize. I believe that God created all things. I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I have seen Him work in people's lives, mine included. A personal relationship with Jesus means that I accept Him as Savior. I accept that His death on the Cross has atoned for all my transgressions. I allow Him to be Lord of my life. My Faith in Him and what He did at Calvary guides me as I carry on in this life. Now, I am not saying that some days I don't try and run things without Him, but I am saying when His will leads, I have a much better day so to speak. thru prayer, Scripture reading, preaching, Gospel music, etc. I try to learn His deisres for me.Some days I think I am doing just what He has laid out for me, some days well, I ain't quite got it. But God is patient. He keeps working with me and through me for His purpose.

Now if this sounds like I am some "holier than thou" Bible thumper, I'm not. I just an average guy that loves the Lord. I try to "show" my Christianity, not beat people up with it. I had 2 older guys that were patterns, mentors, if you will on a true relationship with Christ. They lived it daily. I hope to be like that someday.

 

[FrodoBTemp]

Originally posted by: TheBDB

Originally posted by: FrodoB
I like to classify myself as spiritual rather than religious.

I believe that we are God's experience of Himself (or Herself if you like). God is love. For us to experience ourselves as love, God created the illusion of fear. For example, to know hot, you need to know cold. To know up, you need to know down. To experience ourselves as Love, or in other words, as part of God, I believe it takes many many lifetimes in this illusion... 100s perhaps. I don't believe in hell. Why would God eternally torment his own creation? That doesn't make sense. That is not a God of Love.

I do believe in the existence of Jesus. I believe that He was the "Son of God", because He truly lived a life of true love and conquered human fear and "death." BUt I don't believe He was the only one.... there have been others such as Buddha. I don't believe that Mohommad was very advanced because his experience was a very carnal one. But as far Jesus goes, I believe we are all on a path to become just like Him, but it will take many many lifetimes to achieve. We are all "Sons of God" but we do not truly realize it. Jesus did.

I guess I have a combination of eastern and Christian beliefs.

Wow that is some interesting stuff. How did you come to believe that?

(I had to create a temp. account... I have an email problem in my profile)
How did I come to this understanding? I could spend hours typing it all, but in short, the building blocks of my beliefs can be found in a series of books called Conversations with God (100% recommend to anyone looking for a deeper unstanding of spirituality), books about Gnostic Christianity, and anything written by Deepak Chopra.