Do you also hate brainless FPS? Or just brainless games in general?

[ayabe]

Mjinz - When did you actually play Doom and Quake, you were in diapers man.

 

[aigomorla]

Mass Effect

i think any game which has skill powers that u can use in combination is not considered a mindless FPS.

A mindless FPS is something where u can go out running like a headless chicken, spray a entire clip and still not hit anything.

Or a game which allows you to spell your name on the wall with bullet holes, b4 all the holes fade away.

 

[Martimus]

Like Doom, Quake, Crysis and other shitty games?

Some games, like Grand Theft Auto, may be worthless pieces of trash played only by trash in our society, however, they are actually semi-intellectual works.

But when games do not even pretend to have that aspect, and they are just brainless mindless POS like many FPSes, that really really draws my ire.

/This message brought to you by What Really Grinds my Gears ®

PS. There are some great FPSes like the Call of Duty series that are antithesis of the topic.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of mindless games like the Call of Duty series, but I enjoy intellectual games like Doom, Quake, and Crysis.

I don't understand how people can get into mindless games like Call of Duty, where it puts you on rails, but at least in Doom, Quake, and Crysis you have decisions to make

 

[Anubis]

i think any game which has skill powers that u can use in combination is not considered a mindless FPS.

A mindless FPS is something where u can go out running like a headless chicken, spray a entire clip and still not hit anything.

Or a game which allows you to spell your name on the wall with bullet holes, b4 all the holes fade away.

i wasn't saying ME was mindless i was simply reminding CTS that ME was also a recent non mindless game

 

[GaryJohnson]

You’re confusing plot with gameplay. Halo’s gameplay is roughly that of every other FPS: go kill things and don’t die. I spoke of plot.

I'm not confusing anything with anything. Halo's plot was clichéd drivel.

 

[Anubis]

I'm not confusing anything with anything. Halo's plot was clichéd drivel.

every games plot is, its pretty much par for the course

 

[JackSpadesSI]

I'm not confusing anything with anything. Halo's plot was clichéd drivel.

I still want someone to give me better examples of video game science fiction plots. It is easy to come up with antagonizing critiques like "drivel" but I have yet to see anyone point out a better example which itself isn't cliched or derived.

 

[CurseTheSky]

Mass Effect

RPG, not FPS.

I guess you could technically call Half-Life 2 an RPG or action / adventure game rather than FPS, but it's far more close to what I'd consider the definition of FPS than Mass Effect, for example. Bioshock sort of bridges the gap between the two, though even that is a bit more FPS-ish.

I do agree, though. I much prefer playing Mass Effect to something with a story that you can already tell the outcome of from the beginning like Doom 3. I do miss random spurts of run-and-gun with no pre-planned tactics involved, just speed and accuracy from time to time. IMO, HL2 had the best of both worlds.

 

[simonizor]

Diablo is mindless, but Diablo is not overrated. Those two words are not interchangeable.

Diablo is far from mindless. There are tons of websites out there devoted to different strategies to be used. A game that requires you to think about what strategy you're going to be using is the opposite of mindless..

 

[Dankk]

I still want someone to give me better examples of video game science fiction plots. It is easy to come up with antagonizing critiques like "drivel" but I have yet to see anyone point out a better example which itself isn't cliched or derived.

Get a Gamecube. Then play a little-known game called Eternal Darkness. To this day it is still the greatest storyline I've ever seen in a video game, and I still sometimes think about how deep/existential it is.

I know that in reality, most people who read this post will probably ignore it. If you do play it though, you won't regret it. It's not like anything else I've ever played.

(Edit: Not exactly scifi, but close enough.)

 

[CurseTheSky]

Get a Gamecube. Then play a little-known game called Eternal Darkness. To this day it is still the greatest storyline I've ever seen in a video game, and I still sometimes think about how deep/existential it is.

I know that in reality, most people who read this post will probably ignore it. If you do play it though, you won't regret it. It's not like anything else I've ever played.

(Edit: Not exactly scifi, but close enough.)

After reading that, I really want to play it.

 

[FTM0305]

I think the terms of mindless or brainless comes under fire when there is no common definition for them when it comes to video games.

To non-gamers all video games are mindless.

imho It really depends on the level of emotion & intellectual depth a gamer can summon to connect to the characters and story, but even if an affinity for a fictional story can be solidified does it make it a real bond or just fan-boyism / obsession?

Certain games in their implementation have been industry changing such as Half Life 2, GTA, and others, but have we seen a game that has had impact on a group outside the industry?

With the controversy surrounding the next Medal of Honor release because of it depiction of a current war I wonder if video games can start bringing more light to world events in the same way a movie like Schindler's List did some 40+ years after the events in WW2 concentration camps.

Six Days in Fallujah is supposed to be a biographical videogame produced by Atomic Games. Supposedly to be released this year, this game is a third person shooter following a storyline that brings the player into the Second Battle of Fallujah in 2004.

So, what's a mindless game? If there is no substance to the game, or when you stop playing it all applicable skills or lessons learned cease to matter maybe that's what makes the game mindless.

If that's the case. I love mindless games. Especially Left 4 Dead 2! Nothings more applicable to life then killing mindless hordes of zombies!

 

[Dumac]

Dumac, I completely disagree that individual forms of media (and even genres within them) shouldn’t be judged on their own scales. If someone tasked me with making a list of my top five favorite horror movies I could do that. I would describe all five of those movies as “good, for a horror movie”. However, I know that none of those movies would appear on my list of top five OVERALL movies.

I never said that you shouldn't judge different forms of media on their own scales, or even different genres. I said that it's bullshit to claim that video games has shitty plots, and therefore Halo's shitty plot is "one of the best".

I maintain that the overall story arc of Halo 1-3 is up there with some of the best Sci-Fi in video games. The only way to refute that would be to come back with actual counterexamples.

System Shock 2? (or Bioshock if you are young)
The Dig?
Loom?
The Longest Journey?
Oddworlds?
Fallouts?
Earthbound (or Mother 3)?
KotOR (for plot more than universe)?
All these games completely eclipse Halo in terms of the quality of the universe they are set in and the plot in the games, and these are just games off the top of my head. I'm sure there are lots of better examples of good science fiction games.

Even more popular series like Half-Life, Mass Effect, Starcraft, and Metal Gear Solid with less-than-spectacular plots and universes are much better than the Halo series.

 

[Dumac]

every games plot is, its pretty much par for the course

Not every video game plot is cliched drivel. I am SO tired of this excuse.

"This game has such a shitty plot"
"Well every game does, so its okay"

No they don't! Science fiction is a weak genre of video games, but there are even science fiction games with great plots. Once you leave that genre, it only gets better.

 

[GaryJohnson]

I still want someone to give me better examples of video game science fiction plots. It is easy to come up with antagonizing critiques like "drivel" but I have yet to see anyone point out a better example which itself isn't cliched or derived.

Jedi Knight, System Shock 2, Half Life, Deus Ex, Red Faction (pre-Halo games)

 

[Dumac]

Deus Ex

Derp, left a big one out of my list.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It takes nothing more than looking at Bungie's first sci-fi trilogy to find a better plot than Halo's.

 

[JackSpadesSI]

Dumac, I must say I appreciate your change in maturity from your earlier post.

I partially agree with your examples (Mass Effect probably wins out as a great Sci-Fi video game plot in my mind). Partially in that I disagree that some of those are even Sci-Fi. Perhaps this is a matter of splitting hairs, but I’m not convinced that BioShock and KotOR are Sci-Fi – even though both rank VERY highly on my list of all-time games! Maybe that is where you and I disagree. That, and it is one of the least productive conversations imaginable to put 10 people in a room and ask them to agree on the best “X”.

If we aren’t going to agree on the merits of Halo’s plot, that’s fine. However, my very first sentence claimed that the plot of Halo’s campaign isn’t mindless. Whether or not you believe it is great, there are few that would classify the story as mindless (again, not the gameplay). Apparently GaryJohnson is one of those few, and so be it. I, personally, never fell in love with Half-Life and I acknowledge that is video game sacrilege. C’est la vie.

Diablo is far from mindless. There are tons of websites out there devoted to different strategies to be used. A game that requires you to think about what strategy you're going to be using is the opposite of mindless..

Please don’t interpret my statement as a slight against the Diablo franchise. I adore the original and the sequel, yet I believe they are mindless entertainment. I really enjoy the limited storyline, but it is very much so a game of clicking and looting. That doesn’t mean I won’t lose endless hours playing Diablo III when it is eventually released, though!

 

[bobross419]

Like Doom, Quake, Crysis and other shitty games?

Some games, like Grand Theft Auto, may be worthless pieces of trash played only by trash in our society, however, they are actually semi-intellectual works.

But when games do not even pretend to have that aspect, and they are just brainless mindless POS like many FPSes, that really really draws my ire.

/This message brought to you by What Really Grinds my Gears ®

PS. There are some great FPSes like the Call of Duty series that are antithesis of the topic.

If you are looking for a shooter that has a bit more depth, you might consider Mechwarrior IV: Mercenaries free release. It has been modded by mektek.net and is available free.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Well, he said that the Halo series had one of the best sci-fi plots (in video games), but the plot is just terrible.

It isn't a homage; it is just lazy writing. They didn't do references in any clever way. The game doesn't EVER poke fun at itself or the science fiction genre. They just reused old, tired science fiction plot devices and setting.

A plot can't be "up there with some of the best" when it isn't innovative or interesting. Something so derivative as Halo can't be described as a shining example of excellent writing.

And please, don't use the "oh no video games ever have good plots so I judge them on a scale where shit gets an A+" line. That's a silly, and untrue, excuse.

I do agree that the first Halo was the best, just in terms of presentation. The plot and setting still lacked.

Noted on it him saying its one of the best, but I'll disagree with the rest. They didn't have to be overly clever in the references, and its things that permeate the game (the design of the ships, the shit talking Sarge, watching the video feed from earlier). So I guess what you call lazy I think is them paying homage to that which has come before. I don't ever get the tone that they think they made some great original work, and from what I remember reading, they definitely were intending for people to get the similarities with other work (movies, books, games).

I'll disagree on the plot and setting part. Its nothing unique or astounding, certainly, but still enjoyable (well, for some people I guess). I personally liked the setting, and actually think it was the best part, and it kinda sets up the entire game/series.

 

[darkswordsman17]

As for the issue of Halo being an homage, that isn’t true in the sense it is being taken here. I dislike darkswordsman17’s comparison to Hot Fuzz. Halo isn’t a spoof or satire. Yes, Halo draws inspiration from other creative works, but that doesn’t mean it should “poke fun” at itself.

The thing is, Hot Fuzz really was not overly spoof or satire, it really stood on its own quite well (but you're not going to claim its exactly highly intelligent, original, or anything). It is far more homage, which is different from spoof/satire, and its why I think the original Halo is comparable.

Until the second one, I never felt Halo took itself overly serious, which is why I said it pokes fun at itself. There were lots of cliched jokes as well (the Sarge was one, and the fact that he was still alive was a joke itself, plenty of the soldier dialog was cliche from war movies). There was a ton of stuff from Aliens that is clear homage.

(Sorry for trimming your quote, but it was very long) I liked the Flood but I didn’t think they needed a speaking role (e.g. Gravemind). The Flood were so central to the overall plot arc that I’m not sure it would even be Halo without them. Yes, Halo 2 was a huge letdown. I also didn’t care for ODST, which is why my post only mentioned the core story arc of Halo 1-3. I’m apprehensive about Reach, too, but I’ll give it a try. Finally, +100 for Halo’s music. Always fantastic!

I actually didn't mind the flood, and you're right without it, the overall story would kinda be less reasonable (the rings exist for the Flood). In fact, I think it makes more sense for the flood to be "voiceless". Gravemind was just awful though.

The music alone puts Halo ahead of a lot of other games for me personally.

Not every video game plot is cliched drivel. I am SO tired of this excuse.

"This game has such a shitty plot"
"Well every game does, so its okay"

No they don't! Science fiction is a weak genre of video games, but there are even science fiction games with great plots. Once you leave that genre, it only gets better.

Science fiction is a fairly weak genre in general. You can pick apart sci-fi plots pretty easily, and plenty of times with just simple logic. Of course that's true of a lot of stories in general, but so much of sci-fi hinges on easily defeatable plot points.

And sorry, but video game plots are mostly cliched (which doesn't necessarily make them drivel). Most plots of anything today is cliched.

Halo definitely has its flaws (in pretty much every manner: graphics, gameplay, storyline, etc), but I find it absurd for someone to call it complete crap. I could see not liking it, even saying its mediocre, but not crap.

 

[devotion]

Most games are brainless just like watching tv. I guess an exception might be rts type games.

 

[Kyanzes]

There aren't very many good FPSs IMHO. I liked the Deus Ex games or AvP 1/2. Half Life 1. IMHO HL2 had a very artifical and washed out feel to it. Liked System Shock 1/2. NOLF 1

Bioshock was medicore at best, although I can see why many people liked it.

Some crappy games (at least on my list) that were hyped: Red Faction series, Borderlands, Crysis, FEAR and anything that has Quake in its name. Doom3 is borderline. Duke Nukem 3D. All "Clone Wars" SW games.

Also, I personally don't like WW2 / Iraq / NAM era games so I won't judge their value. Nazi/Al-Qaeda/Chinese/Soviet bashing is getting seriously old now.

Rogue Trooper was refreshing. Was too short though.

 

[Dumac]

Halo definitely has its flaws (in pretty much every manner: graphics, gameplay, storyline, etc), but I find it absurd for someone to call it complete crap. I could see not liking it, even saying its mediocre, but not crap.

I never called Halo crap; I called the plot and universe shitty and uninspired, which I will stand by.

I never played Halo for the story. I played it for the fun console multiplayer with friends who didn't play PC games.

The original Halo was, as an overall titles, mediocre. As a console FPS, the multiplayer was pretty good. The setting a story? Absolute terrible drivel.

But I guess we'll agree to disagree on that point.

Note - I still wouldn't call Halo mindless. I wouldn't call most games mindless, except for some REAALLY shallow hack n slashes or something where you just spam buttons with little thought.

 

[Dumac]

Most games are brainless just like watching tv. I guess an exception might be rts type games.

I completely disagree with this statement. Try to play almost any competitive game with a mindless mindset. You will get completely destroyed.