Do these guys look like police to you?

[Train]

Saw this image in a NYPost article about the future of drone technology. This is a pic of the Montgomery County, TX SWAT team with their new drone:

When I was .mil, we called guys who dressed like that "gear queers"

 

[kage69]

Nope, sure doesn't look like police to me.

It looks like Special Weapons and Tactics. They have a job similar to some military units, so it stands that common tools are used for common tasks. Should they be wearing bright yellow and orange vests and no helmets to help others overcome their fear of a military appearance? Lame.

Fact is LEOs often have to tangle with people who are more heavily armed than they are, or have military training, or have hostages, or have bombs, boobytraps, etc. Why would normal police be used for those situations, and why wouldn't we give them the tools and training that would allow them to do their jobs without getting killed?

When SWAT teams start using mortars, rockets, heavy machine guns and are in the habit of calling in air support to wipe out an entrenched position, let me know. Till then I think this is just some people getting their panties in a twist over nothing.

I'm a lot more concerned with their behavior and professionalism than their appearance, but that's just me.

 

[Oil]

http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/w...ce-drone-crashes-into-Lake-Conroe-5435343.php

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Drone-recovered-in-Lake-Conroe-5464205.php

 

[monkeydelmagico]

I have no problem with SWAT when they are USEFUL. This is a high dollar swat team for freaking Montgomery, TX where they have almost no crime. What a freaking waste of money. They should buy some surplus coast guard boats too.

 

[unokitty]

Fact is LEOs often have to tangle with people who are more heavily armed than they are, or have military training, or have hostages, or have bombs, boobytraps, etc. Why would normal police be used for those situations, and why wouldn't we give them the tools and training that would allow them to do their jobs without getting killed?

Law Enforcement is not war.

Law Enforcement Officers are not soldiers.

But if you ever go to war, my recommendation would be to join a unit where your peers know which part you assault rifle's scope should be pointed at your enemy ... Unlike, the SWAT officer in the above photo.

Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71

 

[lozina]

Good relevant article:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904

The country's first official SWAT team started in the late 1960s in Los Angeles. By 1975, there were approximately 500 such units. Today, there are thousands. According to surveys conducted by the criminologist Peter Kraska of Eastern Kentucky University, just 13% of towns between 25,000 and 50,000 people had a SWAT team in 1983. By 2005, the figure was up to 80%.

Big Gov is actively trying to keep it's citizens from obtaining firearms while at the same time convert its domestic police forces into para military armies.

 

[Markbnj]

I'm a lot more concerned with their behavior and professionalism than their appearance, but that's just me.

You're the second poster to imply that it is appearance that is important here. It should be obvious that the point is what the appearance says about the nature of these units and their role in society.

 

[Brovane]

Nope, sure doesn't look like police to me.

It looks like Special Weapons and Tactics. They have a job similar to some military units, so it stands that common tools are used for common tasks. Should they be wearing bright yellow and orange vests and no helmets to help others overcome their fear of a military appearance? Lame.

Fact is LEOs often have to tangle with people who are more heavily armed than they are, or have military training, or have hostages, or have bombs, boobytraps, etc. Why would normal police be used for those situations, and why wouldn't we give them the tools and training that would allow them to do their jobs without getting killed?

.

They don't have a job that is similiar to military units. The majority of SWAT units are called out to serve warrants and the majority of time the people they are serving the warrants on are either unarmed or maybe have a couple of pistols and a old rifle. The majority of criminals are not heavily armed. The rise of SWAT times concided with the drug war and asset forfeiture laws. SWAT teams have become a money maker for most police departments because of this. This in flow of money then supports the SWAT teams and all their cool gear. The situations that really truely require a SWAT team are few and far between.

 

[Markbnj]

The situations that really truely require a SWAT team are few and far between.

This is really the bottom line: how often are these units needed for dangerous situations where their equipment and training make the difference? I suspect that these cases are indeed very rare. One of the iconic cases that is often used to justify more military style hardware for police is the famous "North Hollywood shootout" with two guys who hit a Bank of America dressed in body armor and carrying assault weapons. The official response to that was almost all ordinary street officers, not SWAT teams. And yet despite this worst-case scenario in which hundreds of rounds were fired in a public place, the only deaths were the two criminals, as far as I recall. How often does something like that really happen?

 

[Jeff7]

...

 

[Jeff7]

Good relevant article:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904



Big Gov is actively trying to keep it's citizens from obtaining firearms while at the same time convert its domestic police forces into para military armies.

Next paragraph:

The number of raids conducted by SWAT-like police units has grown accordingly. In the 1970s, there were just a few hundred a year; by the early 1980s, there were some 3,000 a year. In 2005 (the last year for which Dr. Kraska collected data), there were approximately 50,000 raids.

So either crime rates have increased sharply and criminals are now astonishingly well-armed, or SWAT teams are being severely overused, called into service for apprehending nonviolent offenders.

Yay for militarized police.

What sucks is this military style of policing is not going to be used to stop murder, rape, theft, or other crime that actually affects people. Instead, it will be used for the war on piracy and stuff of that sort.

Nah, War on Drugs.

 

[Paladin3]

I think a few of the posters here should volunteer for SWAT duty and tell them that all you need is a .38 and a few loose bullets in your shirt pocket. Polite and kind, with a stern warning to tell Aunt Bee on anyone who gets out of line, should be enough to keep the peace.

 

[MtnMan]

Yay for militarized police.

What sucks is this military style of policing is not going to be used to stop murder, rape, theft, or other crime that actually affects people. Instead, it will be used for the war on piracy and stuff of that sort.

The militarized police is solely to protect the government. They really don't give a damn about how many 'civilians' are raped, robbed, or murdered.

 

[OutHouse]

http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/w...ce-drone-crashes-into-Lake-Conroe-5435343.php

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Drone-recovered-in-Lake-Conroe-5464205.php

$250K police drone crashes into Lake Conroe
By Heather Alexander | April 28, 2014 | Updated: April 30, 2014 12:33pm



yea i was going to post this too. my sister lives in montgomery county and sent the same link to me.

anybody notice the sticker on the back of the vehicle? it says it was purchased through DHS.

 

[MtnMan]

As a guy with a family and property I am a big supporter of the police.

Why, they are not there to protect your and your family, and the SCOTUS has made it clear that they do not have to. Sure they will come and take pictures of the bodies, file reports, and maybe even get lucky and catch the criminials, but it is up to YOU, and only YOU to protect yourself and your family.

 

[MtnMan]

I'm a lot more concerned with their behavior and professionalism than their appearance, but that's just me.

Then start paying attention, this is just the toy solider suits they wear when making no-knock searches of homes, often on little or no evidence, and far too often at the wrong house, on the wrong street.

Did you watch the blatant violation of constitutional rights in Boston last year when cops in their swat gear illegally searched every house on the block, pointing their weapons at children as they herded them out of their homes at gunpoint and into the streets?

Coming soon to your neighborhood :twisted:

 

[MtnMan]

I have no problem with SWAT when they are USEFUL. This is a high dollar swat team for freaking Montgomery, TX where they have almost no crime. What a freaking waste of money. They should buy some surplus coast guard boats too.

So violating the 4th amendment rights of citizens by forcing people out of their homes at gunpoint in Boston while searching for a scared, unarmed 19 year-old last year?

Or when the moved in on the compound at Waco?

Or put 72 bullets in a pickup in CA with two old women delivering papers, even though the truck was the wrong make, model, and color of the wanted vehicle?

 

[Brovane]

I think a few of the posters here should volunteer for SWAT duty and tell them that all you need is a .38 and a few loose bullets in your shirt pocket. Polite and kind, with a stern warning to tell Aunt Bee on anyone who gets out of line, should be enough to keep the peace.

However a fully automatic Military Rifle is essential to take down a Marijuana dispensiary where none of the suspects are known to be armed. 😕

 

[RadiclDreamer]

A little too millitaristic for my taste

 

[Brovane]

This is really the bottom line: how often are these units needed for dangerous situations where their equipment and training make the difference? I suspect that these cases are indeed very rare. One of the iconic cases that is often used to justify more military style hardware for police is the famous "North Hollywood shootout" with two guys who hit a Bank of America dressed in body armor and carrying assault weapons. The official response to that was almost all ordinary street officers, not SWAT teams. And yet despite this worst-case scenario in which hundreds of rounds were fired in a public place, the only deaths were the two criminals, as far as I recall. How often does something like that really happen?

Yet in a situation like Columbine where a SWAT could have made a difference the SWAT team sat outside and secured the perimeter.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

So violating the 4th amendment rights of citizens by forcing people out of their homes at gunpoint in Boston while searching for a scared, unarmed 19 year-old last year?

Or when the moved in on the compound at Waco?

Or put 72 bullets in a pickup in CA with two old women delivering papers, even though the truck was the wrong make, model, and color of the wanted vehicle?

Uh.... no. There was absolutely nothing in my post giving a big :thumbsup: for all swat tactics. I was thinking more like keeping my town (Trenton) from breaking last year's murder record. I was simply trying to illustrate where these specialized units may be useful, rather than useless.

The old ladies in the pickup were probably asking for it though. Hopefully the jack booted thugs tracked their trail back to the retirement home. Hotbeds for anarchy mastermind activity. Storm that shit with full on flash bang tear gas raid. Bring ATF and DEA along for the lols.

 

[kage69]

Law Enforcement is not war.

Law Enforcement Officers are not soldiers.

But if you ever go to war, my recommendation would be to join a unit where your peers know which part you assault rifle's scope should be pointed at your enemy ... Unlike, the SWAT officer in the above photo.

Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71

Unokitty, you really should try to get a better grip on making logical, relevant posts before attempting to give others advice.

Not that I don't enjoy seeing you basically say nothing while trying to sound profound, but who exactly informed you that they consider Law Enforcement as war fighting soldiers?
More to the point, why are you attributing it to me?

 

[kage69]

You're the second poster to imply that it is appearance that is important here. It should be obvious that the point is what the appearance says about the nature of these units and their role in society.

Really? Here I was thinking it was obvious that the notion of appearance had everything to do with the adverb used in the thread title. Silly me.

Noting the distinction between normal law enforcement and SWAT is also quite silly, my apologies, no idea what came over me.

 

[Ns1]

For those rare times when a department actually encounters the sort of enemy those officers in the picture are equipped to encounter, I would rather they just secure the area and bring in actual soldiers.

How do you propose they secure the area if they are hopelessly outgunned?

 

[Thebobo]

A recruitment video for the Springdale Police Department in Arkansas shows cops dressed in military-style ghillie suits

www.youtube.com/embed/smqZ108ZwAo

.