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Do rich people become jerks or do jerks become rich?

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jpiniero said:
Tesla does have a bad rep for working conditions. Maybe not "crying in the bathroom" bad like Amazon but bad.
Click to expand...


I know a few people that went to work at Tesla and they have no issues and they are enjoying themselves. Good job, good money, good benefits.

You can't make everyone happy.
 
pcgeek11 said:
I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere. Do you have some evidence of this or is this something that you just thought up?
Click to expand...
It's in the first post. Musk doesn't mind remote work as long as minimum 40 hours per week are clocked in an actual office. I guess this is him being "generous" as opposed to normally expecting 60 or more hours per week.
 
During the Pandemic, I briefly enjoyed 6 to 7 hour work days rather than my normal 9 hours. 6 hours honestly felt so much better. I would manage time better and get everything done quickly. 9 hours I just slack a lot and then I rush to complete my work in the last few hours. Sometimes, it even costs me extra 30 minutes to an hour due to my laziness.
 
1. Not all rich people are jerks
2. Not everyone is a jerk all the time
3. He obviously has a problem with the HR manager for his California factory working from another state LOL

The biggest problem of being ultra-rich is that you distance yourself from being around regular people all the time, so you lose perspective due to "ivory tower" syndrome, especially when everyone around you is a "yes man". If you like reading 419 Eater, you'll enjoy the Tiger Oil memos:

lettersofnote.com

Letters of Note | Shaun Usher | Substack

Nothing but history's most interesting letters. Click to read Letters of Note, by Shaun Usher, a Substack publication.
lettersofnote.com lettersofnote.com
 
pmv said:
The thing is those like Musk don't seem to grasp the difference between working very long hours voluntarily because you own the company and stand to reap all the financial benefits, or because its your pet project that you have a direct emotional commitment to, and working such hours solely to make more money for someone else, or further their dream.
Click to expand...

This is absolutely, 100% correct. Elon has said many things over the last several years which basically translate to him wanting his workers to work 60+ hours per week or more. He once also stated “no one changed the world working 40 hours per week.”

You know what Elon? Joe the engineer isn’t going to make billions working 80 hours a week *for you* or anyone else, so why should he work 80+ hours? It’s a job and a means to an end. Getting “rewarded” with a 3% raise and more expensive benefits every year doesn’t exactly make people want to work harder.
 
IndyColtsFan said:
This is absolutely, 100% correct. Elon has said many things over the last several years which basically translate to him wanting his workers to work 60+ hours per week or more. He once also stated “no one changed the world working 40 hours per week.”

You know what Elon? Joe the engineer isn’t going to make billions working 80 hours a week *for you* or anyone else, so why should he work 80+ hours? It’s a job and a means to an end. Getting “rewarded” with a 3% raise and more expensive benefits every year doesn’t exactly make people want to work harder.
Click to expand...

It's all about incentives. Elon doesn't have to worry about money, so all of his projects are based on personal desire, ego, or both. I think the dude is amazing, but like anyone else, he has his issues...Pedo Guy, Elongate, Twitter spats, plus has 8 kids, yet supposedly works 80 to 90 hour weeks. Life is all about family...when he's on his deathbed someday, his company will replace him in a heartbeat, but his family can't! Plus in terms of incentives, what's in it for Tesla employees other than a hefty paycheck if you're in upper management? They're not making billions, they aren't as invested as he is in his dreams...most of them just want to get by & do well & have a nice job.

Treating people right isn't rocket science. I toured my friend's facility a few years ago...he runs it like family. 60+ people, no one scatters when he walks in the room, on a first-name basis with everyone, great work environment, pays well, has free snacks everywhere, just generally takes care of his people! People are accountable because they WANT to contribute to their team & use their talents to contribute to their products & services, not because they live under the gun! Exactly zero people every want to leave working for him because he's created the greatest working environment ever!

I do freelance IT & get to see the inner workings of an awful lot of companies, from manufacturing to food service. The culture that management creates is what makes or breaks the working environment. Oddly enough, plenty of companies still make huge profits despite awful working conditions (re: Amazon Warehouses in the news), because once they figure out what works & get setup for it, they can reduce the product quality & hire unskilled labor for cheap & the machine keeps rolling (look at just about any fast food franchise out there! Plus places like Walmart), so corporate success doesn't really correlate to inner culture at those companies, because once the products & services are in motion, as long as they stay relevant & keep putting out whatever it is they do, the money keeps rolling in!

Bottom line is that we could do better. Elon knows that he has the golden handcuffs around his executive team & can push these kinds of buttons without people jumping ship en masse because it's hard to give up a high-dollar lifestyle, even when it sucks up all your free time! I spent a solid decade working 70+ hour weeks, which is fine if you're like me & have ADHD & have a brain that won't turn off & need to be doing something all the time, but not so great if you're compelled to do so because your billionaire boss says so, haha! Which I think is really odd of Elon, considering that Twitter (his apparent upcoming purchase) is currently a 100% work-from-home "forever" company:

www.forbes.com

Twitter Employees Can Work From Home ‘Forever’ Or ‘Wherever You Feel Most Productive And Creative’

In a Tweet, Parag Agrawal, the new CEO of Twitter, who took over from Jack Dorsey, announced that he’d continue the option of working remotely “forever,” as other tech companies are calling for workers to return to the office.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

It'd be fun to see him do an "undercover boss" on the line in his factory for an extended period of time...not just a day or a week, but really get in there & work through the slog, get paid the average, try to live on that, etc. People get so disconnected from what regular human beings have to go through that weird stuff like the OP comes up. People should have regular working hours, a livable wage, free time to not just spend time with but also enjoy their families, hobbies, pets, etc. When I was working a lot of hours, I was fortunate because I was getting a lot of fulfillment from work, but it left me pretty drained to the point where I couldn't even enjoy stuff like video games because I was in mental burnout mode all the time, which is no way to live! I hope someone close to him can give him some perspective about the true purpose of life, rather than just trying to bully people into the grind! He has the opportunity to make his company an unheard of place to work for positive reasons rather than negative reasons!
 
Kaido said:
It's all about incentives. Elon doesn't have to worry about money, so all of his projects are based on personal desire, ego, or both. I think the dude is amazing, but like anyone else, he has his issues...Pedo Guy, Elongate, Twitter spats, plus has 8 kids, yet supposedly works 80 to 90 hour weeks. Life is all about family...when he's on his deathbed someday, his company will replace him in a heartbeat, but his family can't! Plus in terms of incentives, what's in it for Tesla employees other than a hefty paycheck if you're in upper management? They're not making billions, they aren't as invested as he is in his dreams...most of them just want to get by & do well & have a nice job.

Treating people right isn't rocket science. I toured my friend's facility a few years ago...he runs it like family. 60+ people, no one scatters when he walks in the room, on a first-name basis with everyone, great work environment, pays well, has free snacks everywhere, just generally takes care of his people! People are accountable because they WANT to contribute to their team & use their talents to contribute to their products & services, not because they live under the gun! Exactly zero people every want to leave working for him because he's created the greatest working environment ever!

I do freelance IT & get to see the inner workings of an awful lot of companies, from manufacturing to food service. The culture that management creates is what makes or breaks the working environment. Oddly enough, plenty of companies still make huge profits despite awful working conditions (re: Amazon Warehouses in the news), because once they figure out what works & get setup for it, they can reduce the product quality & hire unskilled labor for cheap & the machine keeps rolling (look at just about any fast food franchise out there! Plus places like Walmart), so corporate success doesn't really correlate to inner culture at those companies, because once the products & services are in motion, as long as they stay relevant & keep putting out whatever it is they do, the money keeps rolling in!

Bottom line is that we could do better. Elon knows that he has the golden handcuffs around his executive team & can push these kinds of buttons without people jumping ship en masse because it's hard to give up a high-dollar lifestyle, even when it sucks up all your free time! I spent a solid decade working 70+ hour weeks, which is fine if you're like me & have ADHD & have a brain that won't turn off & need to be doing something all the time, but not so great if you're compelled to do so because your billionaire boss says so, haha! Which I think is really odd of Elon, considering that Twitter (his apparent upcoming purchase) is currently a 100% work-from-home "forever" company:

www.forbes.com

Twitter Employees Can Work From Home ‘Forever’ Or ‘Wherever You Feel Most Productive And Creative’

In a Tweet, Parag Agrawal, the new CEO of Twitter, who took over from Jack Dorsey, announced that he’d continue the option of working remotely “forever,” as other tech companies are calling for workers to return to the office.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

It'd be fun to see him do an "undercover boss" on the line in his factory for an extended period of time...not just a day or a week, but really get in there & work through the slog, get paid the average, try to live on that, etc. People get so disconnected from what regular human beings have to go through that weird stuff like the OP comes up. People should have regular working hours, a livable wage, free time to not just spend time with but also enjoy their families, hobbies, pets, etc. When I was working a lot of hours, I was fortunate because I was getting a lot of fulfillment from work, but it left me pretty drained to the point where I couldn't even enjoy stuff like video games because I was in mental burnout mode all the time, which is no way to live! I hope someone close to him can give him some perspective about the true purpose of life, rather than just trying to bully people into the grind! He has the opportunity to make his company an unheard of place to work for positive reasons rather than negative reasons!
Click to expand...

I work 70-80 hours a week now, but the qualifier (as you know since we PM quite a bit 🙂 ) is that I work 40 hours per week at my job (period) and the rest goes to my own side business. I’m done working more than 40 hours for someone else - the whole “career” concept is dumb and if I’m going to work extra hours, it is for myself. I’ve already told my boss that I’m beginning ramping up for the holidays and when fall hits, we’ll need to discuss some alternative working arrangements because I believe my business will explode even more during the holidays. I’ve worked remotely for years (since before the pandemic) but I told her I need more time for my side business and wanted an altered work schedule. She knows I’ll resign if I’m forced into a position to choose between the two and said she’ll work with me on more flexibility. And to be honest, I’ll probably resign next year if this fall goes well because I think we’re in for a huge reorg and that is the right time to make a change.
 
igor_kavinski said:
It's in the first post. Musk doesn't mind remote work as long as minimum 40 hours per week are clocked in an actual office. I guess this is him being "generous" as opposed to normally expecting 60 or more hours per week.
Click to expand...


No. I was talking about this statement you made:

" They likely have to put in additional hours remotely too. "
 
IndyColtsFan said:
I work 70-80 hours a week now, but the qualifier (as you know since we PM quite a bit 🙂 ) is that I work 40 hours per week at my job (period) and the rest goes to my own side business. I’m done working more than 40 hours for someone else - the whole “career” concept is dumb and if I’m going to work extra hours, it is for myself. I’ve already told my boss that I’m beginning ramping up for the holidays and when fall hits, we’ll need to discuss some alternative working arrangements because I believe my business will explode even more during the holidays. I’ve worked remotely for years (since before the pandemic) but I told her I need more time for my side business and wanted an altered work schedule. She knows I’ll resign if I’m forced into a position to choose between the two and said she’ll work with me on more flexibility. And to be honest, I’ll probably resign next year if this fall goes well because I think we’re in for a huge reorg and that is the right time to make a change.
Click to expand...

It will be interesting to see how hard-nosed she is about it. I have a variety of clients & the majority of them with "older" management (50+) really hate the concept of remote work, which says that the focus is on anxiety rather than productivity in terms of deliverables, because if people CAN work at home & avoid the commute, pollution, gas prices, HVAC requirements, rent requirements, janitorial cleanup requirements, etc. then they SHOULD - at least in my humble opinion! haha.

I totally understand where Musk is coming from, however, as the discipline can fall apart with WFH. It really depends on the person. Like, I have ADHD & WFH is NOT my jam because I get distracted easily lol. In your boss' case, it's really going to boil down to her perceived value of your contributions...if she's got the "part-time or WFH = no good" filter installed, then good luck! Or if corporate constrains her to have a full-time hire in that position. That's one of the things I like about freelancing...you can join up on a project, fire clients, etc. & it's all totally flexible!
 
IndyColtsFan said:
I’m done working more than 40 hours for someone else - the whole “career” concept is dumb and if I’m going to work extra hours, it is for myself.
Click to expand...

same here, finally.

i worked 60 hour weeks during 1Q for some ultra-important last-minute thing - the same thing that happens to me once or twice a year

they promised the rest of the year would be normal again, but one month later they "revised the timeline" - a 12-month project MUST be done by december

that was my last straw. screw 'em. i'll be as productive as i can in 40 hours, then log off. i'll even be optimistic in getting it done.

but i ain't doing any more unpaid overtime.

i already have a side job that i could easily live off of, and it only takes 10-20 hours a week.

so i honestly would not mind it at all if they fired me. my life would be so much freaking better.
 
pcgeek11 said:
40 hours a week classifies for being "worked to the bone"?
Click to expand...

I was speaking more generally about these people, and I'm pretty sure that was clear in my post...

In this case, the issue is that Musk is insisting on people coming to the office while there's still a pandemic (hopefully on the way out, but still). This is also the guy who defied a county shelter-in-place order in spring 2020 because he was more interested in restarting production than maintaining the safety of his workers. And that's on top of sometimes lousy working conditions, both on factory lines and for office staff.
 
pcgeek11 said:
No. I was talking about this statement you made:

" They likely have to put in additional hours remotely too. "
Click to expand...

OK, so "likely" is incorrect here and should be instead "required." If you read the memo and understand how words work, you'd understand that Elon is directly requiring a minimum of 40 hours on-site, for anyone that wants to work remotely.

some math might lead you to the conclusion that any additional remote hours, after the required on-site hours...is well over 40 hours per week.

This isn't difficult.
 
for decades my grandpa worked at a place whose standard work week was 6 9's

in his 40s he would laugh at people only working 40

but by the time he got to 62 he didn't think he'd survive if he worked until 65
 
Do rich people become jerks or do jerks become rich?

Both. Steve Jobs wasn't born rich but became rich and also became an ahole.
 
Steve Jobs was a jerk to begin with but being a jerk was hard without money so in order to comfortably be a jerk, his brain would think up all sorts of ways to make money.

Think about it. A person has a good kind heart and a very helpful spirit. He's always thinking about others so he has no capacity to think of his own needs hence his brain wouldn't be that active in trying to concoct ways of enriching himself.

Another thing to note: Steve Jobs born in 1955.
Bill Gates in 1955.
Edison 1847 (keep adding 12 to it and you get 1955)
Colombus 1451 (keep adding 12 to it and you get 1955)

See the pattern? All these were/are jerks to other people in their personal lives.

Anyone here born in 1955/1967/1979? I'm telling you, you are a ROYAL PITA JERKASS!
 
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