Do Eurpoeans Look up to America

[vi edit]

Yeah but look how old their houses are!!! Theres culture all up in that bitch! Old = culture right???

That's what I'm trying to figure out. If a sheep herder out in some random part of Ireland has a 400 year old stonewall fence and some old castle structure in the backdrop does that give him culture by association?

 

[HAL9000]

Again...I'm not really sure what you are trying find or identify as "culture". If I travel around rural parts of England or Ireland or any other random rural area of Europe am I going to magically find more "culture" there? Or am I just going to find people that go out and work each day and come back home and spend time with their families at night?

Well yeah, there's little villages with a sole village shop/ pub and it's been that way for 400 years or something there's a very definite sense of Englishness, the pubs, the buildings, the food, the beer etc etc. It's very English around here. I'm not sure how to quantify what I was looking for but whatever it was I didn't find it there, but I do in other places. What I'm saying is If I am teleported into Italy, then I know I'm in italy before I talk to anyone, but if I teleport into a random spot in America before talking to anyone I could be anywhere.

Theres no such thing as no culture. Any set of customs, beliefs etc is considered culture. Just because you dont value it does not mean it's not culture

Well I disagree, Cleveland felt culture-less, it felt sterile, a bit like Salt Lake City. (although the Mormons gave it some character it still felt sterile)

 

[Scotteq]

Yeah, I'm sure there is some culture about if you look for it, I just found it a lot more, difficult to spot, and in some places non-existant IMO.

Maybe it's different living in London: Cultural places and icons are unavoidable. But by way of comparison: One can go to downtown Tokyo (which was pretty much obliterated in WW2), and - if one were somehow able to escape being functionally illiterate for not being able to read/write/speak Japanese - it's pretty much the same as any other large Metropolis.

Another aspect I would point out is that much of American culture is derived from the United Kingdom (English and Irish especially), and therefore would be familiar enough to you that you wouldn't notice.


Now - If I were to pick a US City with an overt feel, San Francisco would be near the top of my list. Though I hear it's a lot less nice than it was in the late 80's when I lived there.

my $0.02.

 

[HAL9000]

Maybe it's different living in London: Cultural places and icons are unavoidable. But by way of comparison: One can go to downtown Tokyo (which was pretty much obliterated in WW2), and - if one were somehow able to escape being functionally illiterate for not being able to read/write/speak Japanese - it's pretty much the same as any other large Metropolis.

Another aspect I would point out is that much of American culture is derived from the United Kingdom (English and Irish especially), and therefore would be familiar enough to you that you wouldn't notice.


my $0.02.

Perfectly valid observations perhaps thats what's missing, it just felt strange, the lack of history in places through me I suppose.

 

[Fritzo]

I actually disagree with the notion that USA has no culture. Yes, their culture is young but it's also extremely vibrant - USA has contributed more to the music, stage, TV and movie industries than any nation in history. It doesn't seem "cultural" because we're all constantly immersed in it. But it certainly fits the dictionary definition of culture.

America's culture is a mish-mosh of everyone else's culture. Our main music contributions evolved from African slave chants and work songs, giving us blues, soul, jazz, and eventually rock, country, pop, and hip-hop crap.

Our TV came from stage shows from the 1890's-1920's, which in turn were based on French and English side shows, carnival shows, circus acts, and street performers.

In both areas, I think we're world leaders in entertainment due to having a larger disposable income, meaning more money is being pumped into these venues. Since more focus is placed on entertainment here, the rest of the world gets influenced from us.

I'd argue that the only truly unique culture in America is from our Native Americans. Their styles, practices, and beliefs are not found anywhere else in the world, and the originated here.

 

[gorcorps]

Perfectly valid observations perhaps thats what's missing, it just felt strange, the lack of history in places through me I suppose.

I think the lack of history knowledge is the biggest problem. People who grew up in an area will know its history and culture through and through. Somebody just passing through won't understand. To be quite honest I can't think of much English culture... just stereotypes and a bit of the Monarch history. Certainly not a lot that has stuck out today for people not from that country.

Culture is relative and in the US it's incredibly dependent on the area. Some places have more history than others, and you can tell. That doesn't mean the country as a whole is cultureless.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

Doesn't some places in Europe allow human euthanization? America needs to allow that. Shit.

 

[HAL9000]

I think the lack of history knowledge is the biggest problem. People who grew up in an area will know its history and culture through and through. Somebody just passing through won't understand. To be quite honest I can't think of much English culture... just stereotypes and a bit of the Monarch history. Certainly not a lot that has stuck out today for people not from that country.

Culture is relative and in the US it's incredibly dependent on the area. Some places have more history than others, and you can tell. That doesn't mean the country as a whole is cultureless.

I'm not arguing it has no culture, just that it has little perceivable cultural identity.

As for English culture it's music (the Beatles etc), food(Pies and Roast Dinners etc), ale, tea, biscuits, castles(and Palaces), monarchy, war, theatre(Shakespeare etc), literature(Dickens etc), also history like Roman's and Tudors etc. These (I would say) are the key cultural aspects of England and you can find something about them everywhere.

 

[HAL9000]

Doesn't some places in Europe allow human euthanization? America needs to allow that. Shit.

Euthanasia is allowed in Switzerland, Google Dignitas.

 

[vi edit]

I'm not arguing it has no culture, just that it has little perceivable cultural identity.

As for English culture it's music (the Beatles etc), food(Pies and Roast Dinners etc), ale, tea, biscuits, castles(and Palaces), monarchy, war, theatre(Shakespeare etc), literature(Dickens etc), also history like Roman's and Tudors etc. These (I would say) are the key cultural aspects of England and you can find something about them everywhere.

And almost any town in America of any size has a baseball field, a tribute to WWII veterans, and a hole in the wall diner where you can get a burger, fries, a Bud and slice of pie for dessert.

 

[gorcorps]

I'm not arguing it has no culture, just that it has little perceivable cultural identity.

As for English culture it's music (the Beatles etc), food(Pies and Roast Dinners etc), ale, tea, biscuits, castles(and Palaces), monarchy, war, theatre(Shakespeare etc), literature(Dickens etc), also history like Roman's and Tudors etc. These (I would say) are the key cultural aspects of England and you can find something about them everywhere.

What's weird about music (in my mind) is that it spreads so much I rarely think of it in terms of nationality, even though yes they all have a home country/state. If I listed my favorite bands right now most of them would come from Sweden and Finland, and I don't even think twice about how few american bands I truly like. These bands still tour worldwide so I'm finding music is truly a global sensation and hard to pin down to a country.

 

[HAL9000]

And almost any town in America of any size has a baseball field, a tribute to WWII veterans, and a hole in the wall diner where you can get a burger, fries, a Bud and slice of pie for dessert.

Yep I guess that qualifies, I don't know what it was maybe I just didn't get it, everywhere seemed so geographically relative in America. I'm happy to be wrong.

What's weird about music (in my mind) is that it spreads so much I rarely think of it in terms of nationality, even though yes they all have a home country/state. If I listed my favorite bands right now most of them would come from Sweden and Finland, and I don't even think twice about how few american bands I truly like. These bands still tour worldwide so I'm finding music is truly a global sensation and hard to pin down to a country.

I always see English music as quite a national thing, that being said I'm outside the music culture as I don't like music so I can't really comment.

 

[davmat787]

Stage - I disagree with Immensely, England has created some of the biggest and best play rights.

As for music. I think that the vast majority of Classical music comes from europe so I'd have to disagree with that point as well.

What about Broadway?

 

[davmat787]

Doesn't some places in Europe allow human euthanization? America needs to allow that. Shit.

Not sure if this is what you are talking about, but if you are interested in this topic you may wish to peruse: http://www.deathwithdignity.org/

 

[HAL9000]

What about Broadway?

Yeah it's great! And it certainly has produced some fine plays, but so has our West End... I wouldn't say it edges the US above England in terms of it's impact on theatre.

 

[davmat787]

Yeah it's great! And it certainly has produced some fine plays, but so has our West End... I wouldn't say it edges the US above England in terms of it's impact on theatre.

I was not saying Broadway is better than London, only that it has a history of stage production, hence a cultural aspect.

 

[HAL9000]

I was not saying Broadway is better than London, only that it has a history of stage production, hence a cultural aspect.

OH I see, sorry, yep that's valid, but it seems exclusive to :hmm:... New York?

 

[SphinxnihpS]

not really. carriers mean the ability to project air power into any hemisphere. that keeps the fight in their country, so it's their infrastructure that gets fucked up. otherwise you're dependent on international cooperation to get the same effect.

besides, we have more subs than anyone else too.

Equal capaicty to us is nuclear capability. If we have a war with an enemy of equal capability, it will not be conventional no matter how much you wish on stars.

 

[William Gaatjes]

A lot of Europeans respect the hell out of America. Well, the educated and traveled ones do. Kind of like how the educated and traveled Americans realize the awesome and respectable values of Europe.

Or anywhere else.

I was over there before, during, and the several months following 9-11. there was a shit-ton of pro-USA love everywhere I went. it all went downhill fast though, the longer Bush stayed in office. Those were probably some of the darkest days for American-based sentiment in Europe, but things are changing again.

True. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld really caused a lot of hate. Also some of the branches of primarily the republicans and to some rare extent the democrats are way to radical or fundamental in their believes. There was actually quite a strong believe(and perhaps still is) that another war if it would happen would be started by the more fundamental religious folks of the US. And that it would not originate in other countries.

To some extent, the US is a good thing but also wise lessons are learned from what is happening in the US. And indeed the educated folks of the US are among the best of the planet, but the same can be written about other countries as well. All in all, the US has a positive view in the EU (at least in my circle)as long as fundamental religious republicans keep a backseat to allow the more enlightened and educated(republicans and democrats to speak their minds).

EDIT:

I should state that no education but with a good honest heart, you belong to the best too... :awe:

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Surface ships - I have to point out that modern surface ships exist to protect shipping (Freighters, Tankers, and Carriers) from Surface and Subsurface threats. Given equal land capability, if you are able to strangle the other guy's supply lines then the advantage is clearly yours. ("..No gasoline for You!!!". If you can do that, then on land you can choose to hold the other guy off until he's weakened, before going on the offensive to finish him.

As far as a couple nations: In the case of Aircraft Carriers, do not discount the ability to be on the other guy's doorstep in very short order with (90~ish for a US Supercarrier) strike and fighter aircraft. And not needing the permission of any other nation or the UN to do it...

Navies are not irrelevant.

You are missing the point. Equal to us is nuclear. War with an equal enemy to us will be nuclear, period. Tell me the relevance of a fleet of ships on the bottom of the ocean.

 

[davmat787]

OH I see, sorry, yep that's valid, but it seems exclusive to :hmm:... New York?

Not at all, many broadway shows travel all around the US. Seattle has many local permanent theatres as well. Also an opera and symphony, and the EMP too. Almost any city of decent size will have similar as well as art and history museums. It is very common, don't see why this would be viewed as exclusive to NY unless one buys into stereotypes or just assumes things.

 

[0roo0roo]

when did I ever say europe is better than the U.S. ?
again, you also waited for years, and it took the COMBINED effort of Nato countries to "finish it off".




by your logic; not as far as you..

here we have president Ford laughing with indonesian president Suharto, a man responsible for killing half a million people...
there's quite a few pictures of american presidents hanging out with ruthless dictators...

is that all you got? your glorious european peace keeping were TASKED with protecting civilians when they stood aside and let it happen, that commander was meeting with the murderers within hours of said attrocity. everything about the europeans dismissive anti american mentality is about claiming that they are better than us, that is a given.

 

[HAL9000]

Not at all, many broadway shows travel all around the US. Seattle has many local permanent theatres as well. Also an opera and symphony, and the EMP too. Almost any city of decent size will have similar as well as art and history museums. It is very common, don't see why this would be viewed as exclusive to NY unless one buys into stereotypes or just assumes things.

That was an assumption, Im pleased to stand corrected now 🙂

 

[davmat787]

That was an assumption, Im pleased to stand corrected now 🙂

I think this qualifies as one of them "The More You Know©" moments. :awe:

 

[HAL9000]

I think this qualifies as one of them "The More You Know©" moments. :awe:

Certainly does. I love them. 🙂