Do Eurpoeans Look up to America

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Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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Europe is a country? Our education system must really be as bad as presumed.

Ahh did you say country. Damn, sorry I don't know enough about any other countries to comment, but Europe equates in terms of size and it definitely has a share sense of culture.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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Ahh did you say country. Damn, sorry I don't know enough about any other countries to comment, but Europe equates in terms of size and it definitely has a share sense of culture.

And what is this ambiguosly described "shared sense of culture"? Does that not directly counter your earlier comment about each country getting a "Frenchyness", "Englishness", "Irishness", "Italianess...ness"?
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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And what is this ambiguosly described "shared sense of culture"? Does that not directly counter your earlier comment about each country getting a "Frenchyness", "Englishness", "Irishness", "Italianess...ness"?

It's a share sense of history, a shared sense of morality (in most places) a shared philosophy and just shared culture, it's difficult to define, it's the notion that when you get on a train from London to Paris, everything is the same but a little different... (assuming that makes any sense)
 

Broheim

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2011
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I found the quote you're referencing on the Wiki. It's from (US Air Force Chief of Staff) Gen. John Jumper.

I guess that's the guy, thought he was a colonel, but I can't quote my actual source as it was a engineering magazine (I can't find it because I threw it out long ago)
 
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I actually disagree with the notion that USA has no culture. Yes, their culture is young but it's also extremely vibrant - USA has contributed more to the music, stage, TV and movie industries than any nation in history. It doesn't seem "cultural" because we're all constantly immersed in it. But it certainly fits the dictionary definition of culture.
2.
that which is excellent in the arts, manners, etc.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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It's a share sense of history, a shared sense of morality (in most places) a shared philosophy and just shared culture, it's difficult to define, it's the notion that when you get on a train from London to Paris, everything is the same but a little different... (assuming that makes any sense)

I could make the same argument about going from Indiana, to downstate IL, to Iowa, to Nebraska. Or across much of the south. Or any other regionally/demographically similar states.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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I actually disagree with the notion that USA has no culture. Yes, their culture is young but it's also extremely vibrant - USA has contributed more to the music, stage, TV and movie industries than any nation in history. It doesn't seem "cultural" because we're all constantly immersed in it. But it certainly fits the dictionary definition of culture.

Stage - I disagree with Immensely, England has created some of the biggest and best play rights.

As for music. I think that the vast majority of Classical music comes from europe so I'd have to disagree with that point as well.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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I could make the same argument about going from Indiana, to downstate IL, to Iowa, to Nebraska. Or across much of the south. Or any other regionally/demographically similar states.

Fair enough, perhaps It's something I didn't experience while I was in America, I just didn't get that "American" vibe, it all seems completely disjointed and without the history even more so.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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I actually disagree with the notion that USA has no culture. Yes, their culture is young but it's also extremely vibrant - USA has contributed more to the music, stage, TV and movie industries than any nation in history. It doesn't seem "cultural" because we're all constantly immersed in it. But it certainly fits the dictionary definition of culture.

This is one thing that has always bothered me. Do we *really* produce an overwhelming majority of music and movies...or is it just all that we are really allowed easy access to from our own media distributers? I'm happy that Netflix has at least opened some easily accessible doors to internation media for us.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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This is one thing that has always bothered me. Do we *really* produce an overwhelming majority of music and movies...or is it just all that we are really allowed easy access to from our own media distributers? I'm happy that Netflix has at least opened some easily accessible doors to internation media for us.

From my perspective a huge amount of films certainly are American in origin, but over here we have our fair share of European films, particularly English films. But Music... No I don't think so, we listen to English music for the most part, there obviously is some American music, but only the really big people make their way across the pond. As for a historical contribution to Music I would argue that european influence has been far greater.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
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Stage - I disagree with Immensely, England has created some of the biggest and best play rights.

As for music. I think that the vast majority of Classical music comes from europe so I'd have to disagree with that point as well.


Well - If you're going to cherry pick only one, then I guess so.

By way of apology for Hollywood, I accept a Yellow Card and award Europe a Free Kick.

But on Music: The Blues and Jazz are clearly cultural, and also very much American art forms.

Otherwise, you're defining what is and is not 'Culture' sole~ly on your own terms. If that's the case, then there is no point in even entertaining a debate.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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Well - If you're going to cherry pick only one, then I guess so.

By way of apology for Hollywood, I accept a Yellow Card and award Europe a Free Kick.

But on Music: The Blues and Jazz are clearly cultural, and also very much American art forms.

Yep I'll definitely give you that, places like Chicago had a big music culture going on, I didn't really involve myself in it but it was certainly there.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
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Yep I'll definitely give you that, places like Chicago had a big music culture going on, I didn't really involve myself in it but it was certainly there.


If you wish to check it out at all: The Miles Davis album entitled "Kind of Blue" would be a most excellent introduction to traditional American Jazz. And is also easy to digest. 'Blue in Green' and 'Flamenco Sketches' being my favorite two. Not that the form is at all popular any more, but... <shrug>
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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If you wish to check it out at all: The Miles Davis album entitled "Kind of Blue" would be a most excellent introduction to traditional American Jazz. And is also easy to digest. 'Blue in Green' and 'Flamenco Sketches' being my favorite two. Not that the form is at all popular any more, but... <shrug>

Ok thanks I'll put it on my "to listen to" list.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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Fair enough, perhaps It's something I didn't experience while I was in America, I just didn't get that "American" vibe, it all seems completely disjointed and without the history even more so.

Not really sure what you were expecting. And what you mean by "disjointed". I can drive from East coast all the way to the West coast via I-10 or I-90 and follow the same basic road rules, pay with the same credit card, and probably find a radio station that I enjoy for most of the run. Of course each state I pass through has it's own unique claim to fame and/or quirk and I'll run through a couple different accents/dialects along the way, but they'll all speak English.

Each major region of the US does have it's own unique identity. The east cost is different from the Midwest. And the midwest is different from the West coast which is vastly different from the South. But every region votes in the same Presidential election every 4 years. We all (except for some Southerners who haven't gotten over it) stand for the national anthem, we all celebrate the 4th of July, and almost of all of us like steak (not getting into how to cook it ;)) and apple pie.

:)
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
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Not really sure what you were expecting. And what you mean by "disjointed". I can drive from East coast all the way to the West coast via I-10 or I-90 and follow the same basic road rules, pay with the same credit card, and probably find a radio station that I enjoy for most of the run. Of course each state I pass through has it's own unique claim to fame and/or quirk and I'll run through a couple different accents/dialects along the way, but they'll all speak English.

Each major region of the US does have it's own unique identity. The east cost is different from the Midwest. And the midwest is different from the West coast which is vastly different from the South. But every region votes in the same Presidential election every 4 years. We all (except for some Southerners who haven't gotten over it) stand for the national anthem, we all celebrate the 4th of July, and almost of all of us like steak (not getting into how to cook it ;)) and apple pie.

:)

I think that's the thing, for me it felt a bit... false, it felt like everywhere I went everyone was forcing themselves to have a culture for the given area, in Memphis everyone was shouting "Elvis" in Texas everyone was shouting "Cowboys" etc, the whole standing for the national anthem thing also felt really... embarrassing, I went to a couple of sporting events where people did that and at first I couldn't help but laugh, it seems so ridiculous!... But that's just me I suppose.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
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I think that's the thing, for me it felt a bit... false, it felt like everywhere I went everyone was forcing themselves to have a culture for the given area, in Memphis everyone was shouting "Elvis" in Texas everyone was shouting "Cowboys" etc, the whole standing for the national anthem thing also felt really... embarrassing, I went to a couple of sporting events where people did that and at first I couldn't help but laugh, it seems so ridiculous!... But that's just me I suppose.


The Elvis, Cowboys, and whatever other stuff always struck me as "Tourist~ey", and what one gets to see when you're in the area for a few days and are bored.

When I used to travel, I always got a better sense of an area's local culture through food, music, and generally hanging out. So, I do things like go to New York: eat a Knish, drink an Egg Cream, and maybe eat some Pizza. Or Barbecue in the Carolinas (which is very different from Barbecue in Texas, or Chicago BBQ, or St. Louis's version...). Maybe go to an actual Rodeo out West somewhere.

I can see where it would feel disjointed, since there are few things which are unique to all Americans. But on the other hand, there's an awful lot of "Micro~Culture" to enjoy.
 
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HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
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The Elvis, Cowboys, and whatever other stuff always struck me as "Tourist~ey", and what one gets to see when you're in the area for a few days and are bored.

When I used to travel, I always got a better sense of an area's local culture through food, music, and generally hanging out. So, I do things like go to New York: eat a Knish, drink an Egg Cream, and maybe eat some Pizza. Or Barbecue in the Carolinas (which is very different from Barbecue in Texas, or Chicago, or St. Louis...). Maybe go to an actual Rodeo out West somewhere.

Yeah, I'm sure there is some culture about if you look for it, I just found it a lot more, difficult to spot, and in some places non-existant IMO.
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
3
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I think that's the thing, for me it felt a bit... false, it felt like everywhere I went everyone was forcing themselves to have a culture for the given area, in Memphis everyone was shouting "Elvis" in Texas everyone was shouting "Cowboys" etc, the whole standing for the national anthem thing also felt really... embarrassing, I went to a couple of sporting events where people did that and at first I couldn't help but laugh, it seems so ridiculous!... But that's just me I suppose.

Why is standing for the national anthem embarrassing? It may not be what you do, but it's just a custom that Americans have as a way to show respect.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
8,344
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Yeah, I'm sure there is some culture about if you look for it, I just found it a lot more, difficult to spot, and in some places non-existant IMO.

Again...I'm not really sure what you are trying find or identify as "culture". If I travel around rural parts of England or Ireland or any other random rural area of Europe am I going to magically find more "culture" there? Or am I just going to find people that go out and work each day and come back home and spend time with their families at night?
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
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Yeah, I'm sure there is some culture about if you look for it, I just found it a lot more, difficult to spot, and in some places non-existant IMO.

Theres no such thing as no culture. Any set of customs, beliefs etc is considered culture. Just because you dont value it does not mean it's not culture
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
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Again...I'm not really sure what you are trying find or identify as "culture". If I travel around rural parts of England or Ireland or any other random rural area of Europe am I going to magically find more "culture" there? Or am I just going to find people that go out and work each day and come back home and spend time with their families at night?

Yeah but look how old their houses are!!! Theres culture all up in that bitch! Old = culture right???
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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Why is standing for the national anthem embarrassing? It may not be what you do, but it's just a custom that Americans have as a way to show respect.

I don't know really, I mean I was watching some random baseball game and then before the game started on came the music and up stood everyone, no one was representing their country it wasn't a time to be patriotic, It just seemed absurd, kind of like singing hymns in church. It was bizzare, at first I was thinking what the fuck is everyone doing then I realised then I laughed. If we sung God save the queen before every football match I'd find that just as odd.