did the Bush administration really desire to eliminate Bin Laden?

[thescreensavers]

The real question is why Obama would kill someone who had nothing to do with 9/11 without a trial.

Uh terrorists do not have rights.

 

[Fear No Evil]

You should let go of anger at some point.

Sorry, I just can't condone racism.

 

[wuliheron]

OP, perhaps you should look up the history of trying to find one person who doesn't want to be found and who has people helping them hide.

Look at the stories about Jews who hide in basements and attics for years during WW 2 and even the neighbors didn't know they were there.

Osama made all those people look like amateurs. He had big bucks and so many hiding places and admirers they may spend the next 100 years figuring out how he lasted this long. He was a hardened combat vet known for being fearless and willing to sleep anywhere and move around at random.

He was also humble, soft spoken, and well educated. Too bad he was also crazy as a loon.

 

[Lemon law]

To some extent we can blame GWB because he was a intellectual light weight twit.

First GWB promised the American people that he could immediately deliver Ossama Bin Laden's head, and when that proved easier said than done, GWB sent the mixed message that he did not really care.

But still in the grand scheme of things, neither GWB or Obama got Bin Laden. It was the dedicated work of military intel and special OP's that never gave up.

So on that point credit where it due. To the dedicated folks in our military who never gave up until they finally got their man.

Maybe we can say that it would better to capture him alive, but we will likely never know if that was ever a practical option.

 

[davmat787]

Nobody is suggesting they never stopped looking for him. The question is how much effort. We have no evidence Bush made it a priority, in fact Bush's own statement suggests it was not. Obama stated in 2010 hunting down Bin laden was a priority in his administration.

Tell me what Obama actually did that Bush did not? I am talking about specifics, not things like saying he made it a "priority".

Again, its not like he is over in Langley at the CTC saying "I want units there, there, and there" while pointing at a map. He is doing exactly what Bush had started. I give Obama all the credit in the world for continuing operations and providing the resources. The credit goes to Bush/Obama for starting/continuing operations, and credit to the boots on the ground and in Langley for executing the executive orders.

 

[Zebo]

Osama made all those people look like amateurs. He had big bucks and so many hiding places and admirers they may spend the next 100 years figuring out how he lasted this long. He was a hardened combat vet known for being fearless and willing to sleep anywhere and move around at random.

He was also humble, soft spoken, and well educated. Too bad he was also crazy as a loon.

LOL Like I said in another thread "dead but not forgotten" ..any sociopathic loon with more testosterone and Islam rather than companionship and decentcy will find a mentor.

 

[fskimospy]

Tell me what Obama actually did that Bush did not? I am talking about specifics, not things like saying he made it a "priority".

Again, its not like he is over in Langley at the CTC saying "I want units there, there, and there" while pointing at a map. He is doing exactly what Bush had started. I give Obama all the credit in the world for continuing operations and providing the resources. The credit goes to Bush/Obama for starting/continuing operations, and credit to the boots on the ground and in Langley for executing the executive orders.

There's no way to know, because you'd have to have access to the intel budget and internal personnel assignments, and that will never happen. We have no idea what resources Bush actually directed to be used against Bin Laden and how that changed over the years, much as we have no idea what Obama directed to be used. It's a useless exercise.

We can't give credit to Bush and Obama equally, because we have no idea if they behaved equally towards the problem, nor do we know if any of the actions taken by Bush contributed to what happened now. The only sure thing you can do is give Obama credit for killing him, because he got the job done.

It's not a knock against Bush, it's just reality.

 

[HomerJS]

Tell me what Obama actually did that Bush did not? I am talking about specifics, not things like saying he made it a "priority".

Again, its not like he is over in Langley at the CTC saying "I want units there, there, and there" while pointing at a map. He is doing exactly what Bush had started. I give Obama all the credit in the world for continuing operations and providing the resources. The credit goes to Bush/Obama for starting/continuing operations, and credit to the boots on the ground and in Langley for executing the executive orders.

When the President of the United States orders a priority in their administration resources are brought to bear (people, money, etc). It was stated in earlier post if we had additional resources we could have gotten him in Tora Bora.

 

[ProfJohn]

I doubt that Obama had anything to do with it nor was it boots on the ground.

Most likely it was someone looking for the money ala Saddam or we just got lucky.

When it is all said and done I doubt that any policy change made by Obama had much to do with this. UNLESS his stepped up attacks in Pakistan is related to this, which is could be.

 

[wuliheron]

LOL Like I said in another thread "dead but not forgotten" ..any sociopathic loon with more testosterone and Islam rather than companionship and decentcy will find a mentor.

Hitler hasn't been forgotten either, but now that we've weeded out the worst of the Nazis and keep a close eye on the rest they're little more an easily managed social disease.

 

[davmat787]

Tora Bora was a screwup, no doubt about that. All I am saying is that both wanted him dead, and many agencies and the military were after him since day one. Are you guys saying there was a massive shift in how Obama was pursued between Obama and Bush?

 

[fskimospy]

I doubt that Obama had anything to do with it nor was it boots on the ground.

Most likely it was someone looking for the money ala Saddam or we just got lucky.

When it is all said and done I doubt that any policy change made by Obama had much to do with this. UNLESS his stepped up attacks in Pakistan is related to this, which is could be.

There's literally no way what you're saying can be anything but baseless speculation at this point.

 

[ProfJohn]

When the President of the United States orders a priority in their administration resources are brought to bear (people, money, etc). It was stated in earlier post if we had additional resources we could have gotten him in Tora Bora.

And if Bill Clinton had made him a focus would could have gotten him before 9-11.

Looking at the past using what we know today is worthless.

 

[fskimospy]

Tora Bora was a screwup, no doubt about that. All I am saying is that both wanted him dead, and many agencies and the military were after him since day one. Are you guys saying there was a massive shift in how Obama was pursued between Obama and Bush?

What I'm saying is that you are treating the two as equivalent, and there's no real reason to do that because we don't have that information. They might have put similar resources, they might not have. We got the job done under one guy's watch.

 

[tvarad]

To some extent we can blame GWB because he was a intellectual light weight twit.

First GWB promised the American people that he could immediately deliver Ossama Bin Laden's head, and when that proved easier said than done, GWB sent the mixed message that he did not really care.

But still in the grand scheme of things, neither GWB or Obama got Bin Laden. It was the dedicated work of military intel and special OP's that never gave up.

So on that point credit where it due. To the dedicated folks in our military who never gave up until they finally got their man.

Maybe we can say that it would better to capture him alive, but we will likely never know if that was ever a practical option.

The fundamental error made in Afghanistan was in implicitly trusting the Pakistanis to help in fighting the war on terror and in hunting down bin Laden. The reason why the Pakistani military got really hot under the collar in the last few months was because they figured out their gig was up and the Americans pretty much knew their game-plan to a T and had enough intelligence to go it alone in their country without depending on it. In the end, it was like finding him at the local Hilton as a guest of the Pakistani military:

From Wikipedia:

The town of Abbottabad in British India was the headquarters of the then Hazara district, and was named after Major James Abbott who founded the town and district in January 1853 after the annexation of the Punjab. He remained the first Deputy Commissioner of the Hazara district between 1849 until April 1853. Major Abbott is noted for having written a poem titled "Abbottabad", prior to his departure back to Britain, in which he wrote of his fondness for the town and his sadness at having to leave it. Abbottabad became and is still an important military cantonment and sanatorium, being the headquarters of a brigade in the Second Division of the Northern Army Corps.

 

[Zebo]

To some extent we can blame GWB because he was a intellectual light weight twit.

First GWB promised the American people that he could immediately deliver Ossama Bin Laden's head, and when that proved easier said than done, GWB sent the mixed message that he did not really care.

But still in the grand scheme of things, neither GWB or Obama got Bin Laden. It was the dedicated work of military intel and special OP's that never gave up.

So on that point credit where it due. To the dedicated folks in our military who never gave up until they finally got their man.

Maybe we can say that it would better to capture him alive, but we will likely never know if that was ever a practical option.

Sent? No GWB explicit said OBL does not matter, not to mention calling off the dogs in Tora Bora or exempting Bin laden family from financial and banking or flight scrutiny,... was OBL skull and bones? You'd think so with latitude provided.

 

[LTC8K6]

The specific lead that led to this moment goes back before Obama.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42853221/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

 

[midwestfisherman]

How come they weren't able to get it done?

Why didn't Clinton get it done when he had Bin Laden in his sites?

 

[fskimospy]

And if Bill Clinton had made him a focus would could have gotten him before 9-11.

Looking at the past using what we know today is worthless.

Uhmmm, Bill Clinton did make him a focus. Under Bill Clinton Osama Bin Laden was the first person in the entire history of US intelligence to have a group set up specifically targeting him.

He was more of a focus of US intelligence under Clinton than any other individual non governmental actor has ever been.

 

[wuliheron]

I doubt that Obama had anything to do with it nor was it boots on the ground.

Most likely it was someone looking for the money ala Saddam or we just got lucky.

When it is all said and done I doubt that any policy change made by Obama had much to do with this. UNLESS his stepped up attacks in Pakistan is related to this, which is could be.

Obama pushed the Pakistani government hard and even repeatedly defied them with drone strikes. They sent in the spies and the troops and after ten years they finally found the guy. To suggest this is merely "luck" or most likely just greed on someone's part without the slightest evidence boggles the imagination and is a slap in the face of everyone involved.

 

[Infohawk]

I think Bush really did want to get him. I don't think we'll ever know if he didn't because he was less competent or because Obama had more luck. But Obama deserves the credit for catching him under his watch.

 

[ProfJohn]

Read the link above... looks like we found him via old fashioned detective work done over a very long time.

The story seems to suggest that the people working on the trail of the couriers are the real heros and that Obama or Bush probably had little to no effect on us finding him now.

Clinton may deserve more credit than Obama or Bush for setting up this tracking unit in the first place and for getting the information that turned out to be key.


BTW Obama does get credit for making this happen now, no doubt about that. I just question whether any policy decision he made had a direct effect on this information or if he just happened to be in office when it happened.

 

[Perknose]

Tora Bora was a screwup, no doubt about that.

Are you guys saying there was a massive shift in how Obama was pursued between Obama and Bush?

Yes. Mulitple people in this thread have been trying to tell you just that.

Bush pulled special op resources away from the hunt for Osama for his war with Iraq, de-emphasized finding and capturing Bin Laden as a priority, even said as much, and never re-committed the resources necessary to root him out.

Barry O. did, as he said he would, and the efforts bore fruit, as we can now see. Is this really so hard for you to understand?

 

[wuliheron]

BTW Obama does get credit for making this happen now, no doubt about that. I just question whether any policy decision he made had a direct effect on this information or if he just happened to be in office when it happened.

Obama gets credit for doing his part. No more and no less. It was a team effort by who knows how many people doing just about anything they could to catch the guy. This isn't some Hollywood movie with a lone hero defying the odds. They're all heroes who all risked a lot to catch this guy including Obama apparently. Trying to deflect credit from any of them does a disservice to them all.

 

[LTC8K6]

Bush's statements may have been propaganda, though. Designed to get them to relax.