did greece just elect Nazis into government??

[Matt1970]

Are you trying to say the Nazis are extreme right wing?

 

[Infohawk]

Are you trying to say the Nazis are extreme right wing?

I would and I imagine the vast majority of English-speakers do too. Are you one of those people that thinks because the word socialism was stuck in there that they are left-wing? Communism is the far-left.

 

[PingviN]

Sigh. When will people ever stop blaming immigrants for every economic problem they have? Of course we the people can never do wrong; it must always be the alien usurper who causes every problem. The only thing we the people can ever do wrong is in being overly tolerant of the alien usurper. What nation on earth is immune from varying degree of this way of thinking? Certainly not the US.

It's convenient to blame the immigrants because if it's the immigrants fault then the only thing you need to do is get rid of them. Simplicity is attractive and it's far easier to blame it all on someone else. It's just the way it is.

But then again, of course there is an understandable sting in the Greeks' eyes when immigrants - legal or illegal - either take jobs that Greeks' might've had just as well or live on social welfare and/or commit crimes (a small portion of the immigrants though).

Are you trying to say the Nazis are extreme right wing?

Far-right as in against democratic values, not far-right as in libertarians. The terms far-left and far-right are based on views on democracy and equality.

 

[Matt1970]

Just because some dipshit skinheads from the south want to associate themselves with the right doesn't mean we accept their kind.

 

[Matt1970]

I would and I imagine the vast majority of English-speakers do too. Are you one of those people that thinks because the word socialism was stuck in there that they are left-wing? Communism is the far-left.

It's not fair to consider them anything since they hated both sides. They were anti-big business and anti-communism.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

You obviously don't keep up with European politics. Nazi parties are popular and common throughout the continent. A Nazi candidate in the first round of the French Presidential elections won 18% of the vote.

Europeans have always been supporters of far-right terrorist political groups. This is nothing new.

Pretty sure Fascist/Nazi's stomping all over individual rights, confiscation of property for the "greater good", along with the massive growth of government, and a lastly a great hatred toward the capitalist system as whole is nowhere close to them being "Right-wing".

 

[Infohawk]

But then again, of course there is an understandable sting in the Greeks' eyes when immigrants - legal or illegal - either take jobs that Greeks' might've had just as well or live on social welfare and/or commit crimes (a small portion of the immigrants though).

It's also understandable that in most cases new immigrants are going to be a net loss to the welfare system. They tend not to generate a lot of tax revenue because they tend not to have highly-paid jobs. Best case scenario is that you consider it an investment in an immigrant population that will pay off in a generation or two. When Greeks are killing themselves because of austerity, it's probably not the best time to make that investment.

According to Wikipedia, Golden Dawn advocated vigilantism against immigrants. That is terrible. But stopping immigration and deporting non-citizens is fair game.

 

[sandorski]

Rightwing for sure, they blamed the Press after all.

 

[monovillage]

Just part of the rise of nationalism in Europe.

 

[CanOWorms]

Pretty sure Fascist/Nazi's stomping all over individual rights, confiscation of property for the "greater good", along with the massive growth of government, and a lastly a great hatred toward the capitalist system as whole is nowhere close to them being "Right-wing".

Of course it is. It's all within the context of white supremacy.

 

[CanOWorms]

Just part of the rise of nationalism in Europe.

It's more than nationalism. It's a dangerous ultra-nationalism. The world is looking on in shock.

Maybe Predator drones will be patrolling Athens in the near future.

 

[PingviN]

It's not fair to consider them anything since they hated both sides. They were anti-big business and anti-communism.

They were anti-democracy and anti-equality, that's where the far-right, far-left idea comes from. Far-right = fascism, nazism and the likes. Far-left = communism, anarchy and the likes.

It has nothing to do with socialism vs libertarian-ism.

It's more than nationalism. It's a dangerous ultra-nationalism. The world is looking on in shock.

Maybe Predator drones will be patrolling Athens in the near future.

Anyone told you you're a moron lately? If not: you're a moron. If yes: still a moron.

 

[cybrsage]

Long before WWII.


Research before posting.

2 1/2 decades is not long in the political realm. You should learn about this which you argue against prior to posting else you will continue showing yourself to be unlearned.

 

[0roo0roo]

..

 

[ShawnD1]

Serious Time: How anyone with even a basic knowledge of history could support this kind of group is beyond my comprehension. Is there anyone who can explain how people can fall back into this trap after what it's put Europe through before?

Didn't they successfully change Germany from a third world shit hole into a world class industrial nation? The recession after WW1 in Germany was so bad that it's used as an example in textbooks of "hyperinflation" and how money was literally worth less than the paper it was printed on.

It's a dangerous ultra-nationalism.

Oh noes! The greeks will declare war on.... something! Who cares? All of Greece could be wiped out by pretty much any other country in Europe. We can start to worry when their economy stops sucking.

 

[cybrsage]

 

[CanOWorms]

Anyone told you you're a moron lately? If not: you're a moron. If yes: still a moron.

Please be respectful.

Greece is sliding further into the realm of Nazism and far-right lunacy. Others may need to act.

 

[CanOWorms]

Oh noes! The greeks will declare war on.... something! Who cares? All of Greece could be wiped out by pretty much any other country in Europe. We can start to worry when their economy stops sucking.

Many are concerned on domestic minority groups rather than external dangers to other countries.

 

[cybrsage]

Didn't they successfully change Germany from a third world shit hole into a world class industrial nation? The recession after WW1 in Germany was so bad that it's used as an example in textbooks of "hyperinflation" and how money was literally worth less than the paper it was printed on.

They did, and ultra nationalism combined with supreme government control was needed to make the change happen so quickly.

A key element to any such government is to have at least one easily recognizable portion of society as a focus for the hate and blame for all wrongs. The Germans used the Jews and many other small groups for such a focus. It allows people to vent their anger and frustration while clearing themselves of all guilt. This allows the people who do so to move forward rapidly, making change happen due to no longer being burdened by "those people" who caused the woe. Sacrifice is common due to needing to give up some to fix what "those people" broke.

You need conditions to be horribly bad, with no hope of things getting better so you can offer the only hope they can see. You also need an industrious people who are willing to work hard. Finally, you need a charismatic leader who can clearly explain why "those people" are the problem, how punishing them will remove the problem, and how greatness will once again be found.

A perfect storm is needed for such a nation to arise to great power. Germany was in such a storm, and WW2 was the result.

You see the same basic combination in all extremist groups.

 

[Greenman]

Please be respectful.

Greece is sliding further into the realm of Nazism and far-right lunacy. Others may need to act.

I second the "be respectful" comment. Don't post if you feel the need to insult.

When you say "others may need to act", what "others" are you speaking of, and what action do you think needs to be taken?

 

[Infohawk]

I second the "be respectful" comment. Don't post if you feel the need to insult.

When you say "others may need to act", what "others" are you speaking of, and what action do you think needs to be taken?

You're being trolled. Let's not have this topic derail into a discussion about US military intervention in Greece (which, like insults, is also against the rules). That is simply not in the realm of possibility here.

This is a worthy enough story as it is.

 

[CanOWorms]

I second the "be respectful" comment. Don't post if you feel the need to insult.

When you say "others may need to act", what "others" are you speaking of, and what action do you think needs to be taken?

It seems kind of obvious. Others can be anyone who opposes the far-right in this case. If the Greek far-right escalates their actions, individual countries, coalitions, UN, etc. may intervene. The action that needs to be taken depends on what happens. That area of the world has seen many military interventions due to treatment of minority groups and civilians. I am imagine authorities around the world are watching the situation closely.

 

[CanOWorms]

You're being trolled. Let's not have this topic derail into a discussion about US military intervention in Greece (which, like insults, is also against the rules). That is simply not in the realm of possibility here.

This is a worthy enough story as it is.

Is not calling someone a troll a personal insult? That is basically what you are doing.

You may not agree with the substance. That is ok. But we are talking of the far-right, Nazism, etc. in an area of the world that has seen significant military intervention over the years. It was merely a side comment, but it is most definitely within the realm of possibility. After all, Golden Dawn advocates putting minorities into work camps, landmining the border with Turkey, and as another poster stated they chase after immigrants with chainsaws.

 

[LagunaX]

Doesn't look Aryan to me:

Chic's smokin' but hot or not? LOL...

 

[CanOWorms]

This is a really great article on the recent advances of the far-right in European elections, including some more detail on Golden Dawn.

Extreme right wing parties big winners

They may not have claimed ultimate victory, but the biggest winners of the elections in France and Greece were the parties of the extreme right.

Fringe parties, some of them routinely labelled "neo-fascist" until recently, have made stunning inroads into mainstream European politics, to the point that in France, Norway, Finland, Hungary and Austria they either hold or threaten to hold the balance of power. Governments are increasingly faced with the choice of either giving ground on hot-button issues such as immigration and Islam, or ceding power.

In Greece - its disastrous economy in the hands of European moneymen, its political establishment rotten with corruption and unemployment among the under-25s cresting 50 per cent - this general election has seen a host of extremist parties emerge.

The leader of Chrysi Avgi ("Golden Dawn"), Nikos Michaloliakos, would not have been given the time of day in most EU countries only a short while ago. An open admirer of Hitler (he has called him "a great personality of history"), Michaloliakos has adopted the Nazi salute and a version of the swastika as his party's emblem. One of his candidates in this election remarked laconically: "Most of the money is in the hands of the Jews."

At the last election Golden Dawn polled a derisory 0.29 per cent; this time they are expected to crash through the 3 per cent threshold to end up with 7 per cent and a dozen MPs in Parliament. That will still put them a long way from holding power. But in Greece, as in many other countries, the danger is not a far-right takeover but ideological contamination of the parties in power.

Last week, attempting to steal the far right's thunder, the technocratic Government of Lucas Papademos set up a camp for illegal immigrants and promises to establish dozens more.

In the Netherlands the power of the far right was demonstrated last week when Geert Wilders' Freedom Party, anti-Muslim and anti-EU, brought down the Government, wrecking a long-standing financial pact with Germany which had been one of the pillars of EU stability.

In France, when the National Front polled 17.9 per cent in the first round two weeks ago, President Nicolas Sarkozy immediately toughened his rhetoric.

Across Europe, from Britain, where UKIP averaged 14 per cent in last Friday's local elections, to Finland, where the extreme nationalist True Finns party has increased its share of the vote from 4 per cent to 19 per cent in four years, to Hungary, where the anti-Roma, anti-Semitic Jobbik party holds the balance of power, the far right is seizing the initiative provided by recession and the threat of a eurozone meltdown.

The only crumb of comfort is that so far none of these rapidly growing parties has succeeded in forging a meaningful alliance with any of the others across national borders.

Nicolas Lebourg, an authority on the far right at the University of Perpignan, was yesterday quoted as saying: "Europe is a dry prairie waiting for someone to light amatch."

But given the nationalistic obsessions of all these far-right parties - Golden Dawn says "the nation comes first, democracy after" - the EU's national borders would seem to be unbreachable firebreaks.

It's about the only consolation there is.

The quote from Nicolas Lebourg is chilling. It's such a tense situation.