Did Atari not learn anything from EA and 3 activation limits?!

[mindcycle]

Getting back to the thread topic, here's a hilarious post I just ran across on the Atari message boards. (Actually it's kinda sad)

ok got my board back from Asus (other was bad) Well I gave it to my son. We put it in but did NOT reinstall Vista 32. So we go to run the game it asks to acivate OMFG. Well I have it installed on my son Jake and brandon and me. Well crap its all acivated from ONE IP address. Like I said we didnt change anything but the mother board.. pfft

So you say call them.. OK HOW! The phone number in the manuel.. they say "we will not offer support for Riddick the phone # was printed in error" Contact the web page.

So whats this HOTLINE?

So I went to www.atari.com/support found a number for the USA.. call it.. its been dissconneted

http://www.ataricommunity.com/...howthread.php?t=673189

So much for calling customer support.. lol

 

[mindcycle]

lol..

Well someone is working and looking at this forum. PLEASE you posted .. just call ATARIS hotline.. can YOU PLEASE tell me what it is?


lol forget it.. they delete spam.. but ignore they paying .. wow

http://www.ataricommunity.com/...howthread.php?t=674185

They sure make it easy for their paying customers to get support don't they..

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: chizow
Heh the same usual suspects, dealing in the same brand of fearmongering and misinformation, as usual. What makes anyone think this version of activation SecuROM is any different from the others used in the past, where activations are returned automatically when the game is uninstalled on any given machine?

[/list][/quote]

Originally posted by: NoWhereM
Is that just another lie or have you actually managed to misinform yourself?

That was the beginning of a long chain of misinformation and contradictions. Nothing new though, as we've seen the same series of events happen on just about every thread chizow posts on.

Originally posted by: NoWhereM
So again, I guess it depends on your point of view as to whether my posts to this thread have been ignorant or a service.

Keep posting man. I think you'll find that most people still involved in this thread are clearly on your side. :beer:

Oh, and I just wanted to again say thanks to the pro-DRM guys as they are the ones assuring that this important topic continues to remain on the front page.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: NoWhereM
Is that just another lie or have you actually managed to misinform yourself? Regardless, on page two of this thread you said:

Bioshock was a non-issue as it already had its activation limit deactivated for almost a year, a point I made earlier in the thread. The other SecuROM titles did return activations on uninstall despite all the negative press about them, which is a point I'm sure you didn't bother emphasizing in the past.

So again, I guess it depends on your point of view as to whether my posts to this thread have been ignorant or a service.

Yet you still didn't avoided the initial question, even in the case of Bioshock with a single example, what made you think that single example outweighed all other evidence and multiple examples to the contrary and even an example of SecuROM used by Atari that did return activations? In the end, Bioshock served to prove there is no reason to doubt the intentions of the publishers when they claim their DRM is only meant to deter early piracy, as they released both a revoke tool along with a built-in time-based annuller.

I just used Bioshock to prove what you are posting is misinformation because I happen to have the revoke tool saved to my computer (which of course has the Revoke Tool pdf included). I purchased Bioshock used, as soon as a revoke tool was released. I probably would have purchased Bioshock new and spent twice as much (I paid $15 shipped) if there hadn't been activation limits.

Again, Bioshock serves as a great example of DRM deactivating itself without any user intervention and in context of what I wrote there is no misinformation as there is no activation limit and no need for a revoke tool. What is misinformation is the constant lies and fearmongering spread about SecuROM and activation limits that until recently failed to go corrected on these forums. Is it a surprise you haven't bothered to correct those lies? Of course not.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Maximilian

Originally posted by: NoWhereM

Originally posted by: Red Irish
And if increased piracy rates are not preventing good sales, what can we conclude?

That chizow has wasted countless hours spreading misinformation that could have been better spent by helping the less fortunate in his/her community or at least by playing Peggle?

Chizow is the less fortunate in his/her community. Hes clearly decluded and needs help

You might be right, I do live in a pretty respectable community. I could probably get away with leaving my door, car, etc unlocked. But then I remember there's trash like you floating around out there, and figure that's probably not a good idea.

As for playing Peggle? LOL. Why would I bother with Peggle when I can play Riddick? LMAO, damn, you must be bored.

Finished EfBB yesterday, awesome game for anyone who didn't play the original, like me. Dark Athena looks to be even better so far with improved artwork, textures, enemy AI with the same great story, voice acting and cinematic elements.

I love you too man

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: mindcycle
That was the beginning of a long chain of misinformation and contradictions. Nothing new though, as we've seen the same series of events happen on just about every thread chizow posts on.

Again, its obvious you don't know the meaning of contradiction and given just about everything you type is a lie, half-truth, or a clear attempt to deceive, I'm not sure how anyone can take your posts seriously at this point. The funniest part is when you post a link as if it proved your point, only for someone else to go in and extract the relevant info that shows how dishonest you are in your "fact finding."

Oh, and I just wanted to again say thanks to the pro-DRM guys as they are the ones assuring that this important topic continues to remain on the front page.

No doubt, although we can't take all the credit. Most of your lies and misinformation have been exposed and proven as such with links and quotes you've provided. :thumbsup:

 

[apoppin]

in completely unrelated news:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inq...l-depth-public-support

PROTESTERS TOOK TO Sweden's quiet streets on Saturday to express their anger at the previous day's court verdict, which leaves the operators of file-sharing service the Pirate Bay facing prison sentences.

Protests organised by Sweden's Pirate Party were held in Stockholm, Karlstad, Goteborg, and Lund. The party, which is loosely affiliated with the torrent service, maintains culture and knowledge are "good things", that should be shared. "The Internet could become the greatest public library ever created," it says.

The party said that following the court verdict, its membership was boosted by 20 per cent to about 20,000. This may now make it Sweden's fourty-largest political party.

On Friday, Gottfrid Svartholm Warg, Peter Sunde, Fredrik Neij and Carl Lundstrom were given a one-year jail sentence and ordered to pay damages of 20 million Swedish krona (£2.4 million) for helping to make copyrighted content available on the web.

While the four vowed to appeal the court's verdict, their supporters gathered in central Stockholm to protest against the charges.

Pirate Party (Piratpartiet) chairman, Rickard Falk Vinge, told the crowd, the site's operators had been wronged by the government and called for "file-sharing for the people", according to the Associated Press. "The establishment and the politicians have declared war against our whole generation.

"We want it to be open for ordinary people to disseminate and receive information without fear of imprisonment or astronomical damages," he said.

The Pirateers themselves called the court verdict a mere "speedbump on the information super highway".

"The site will live on!" they declared. "We are more determined than ever that what we do is right. Millions of users are a good proof of that.

i hear the Somali pirates are doing the same thing and organizing a protest at the cruel treatment they are getting from the US Navy

 

[NoWhereM]

Originally posted by: NoWhereM
Is that just another lie or have you actually managed to misinform yourself?

Originally posted by: chizow
What is misinformation is the constant lies and fearmongering spread about SecuROM and activation limits that until recently failed to go corrected on these forums. Is it a surprise you haven't bothered to correct those lies? Of course not.

Okay, I'll go back and correct some more lies if that will make you happy.

Originally posted by: chizow
Every other activation-based SecuROM that received unsubstantiated criticism, like Spore, Crysis Warhead, Mass Effect, etc. did return activations on uninstall, yet you never bothered to clarify those lies and misinformation. I wonder why?

Link to EA Revoke Tools for Spore, Crysis Warhead, and Mass Effect

As you can see all of the games you claimed returned activations on uninstall actually didn't. That's why EA had to release revoke tools for all of them.

Happy?

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: NoWhereM

Originally posted by: chizow
Every other activation-based SecuROM that received unsubstantiated criticism, like Spore, Crysis Warhead, Mass Effect, etc. did return activations on uninstall, yet you never bothered to clarify those lies and misinformation. I wonder why?

Link to EA Revoke Tools for Spore, Crysis Warhead, and Mass Effect

As you can see all of the games you claimed returned activations on uninstall actually didn't. That's why EA had to release revoke tools for all of them.

Happy?

Looks like you may be right here. I'm finding no information on whether or not EA SecuROM "protected" games return an authorization upon uninstall, only articles about EA's deauthorization tool.

http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/...aW9uIG9uIHVuaW5zdGFsbA**&p_li=&p_topview=1

From the SecuROM website:

2.2 How do I revoke a previous game activation? (aka: I get the error message: 'Too many activations on different PCs or too many reactivations on the same PC have been performed...')

You can either use the title specific revokation tool (the program has to support this feature, please consult the software publisher regarding such a tool) or you can also visit our manual revoke website (https://support.securom.com/PAunlock/?c=1400) to revoke your activation manually.

I'm not 100% certain it doesn't return authorizations upon uninstall, but I can find zero info to back up chizow's claim. Care to share where you found such information chizow?

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: apoppin
We can conclude that the pirates are loving Demigod and hating Assault on Dark athena
- and they are spreading their hate far and wide for DRM which frustrates them

screw the pirates .. who likes to deal with thieves
:thumbsdown:

immoral elitist bastards who are screwing PC gaming

Such passion, such rage, a little vulgar perhaps, but I could feel the flames of your ire and I have no doubt that any existing pirates have all promptly vacated this thread and gone into hiding, lest they incur your wrath again. You should collaborate with chizow and help him fill up this entire thread with posts relating to the piracy figures, or lack thereof, for Dark Athena; you could both hammer home the issue of piracy and expose the pirates as the dirty vermin they are, page, after page, after page, whilst ensuring that you are at no point diverted by less weighty matters. What's that you say, you've already done all that? Clearly, you have both performed a great service and this forum is indebted to you.

Now that we have finally cleared up this issue of piracy and established that they are "immoral elitist bastards", I feel that there is a related question that you and chizow might address. If he is too busy fending off accusations of lying, contradicting himself and disseminating gross misinformation, not to worry, he will undoubtedly emerge once more with his reputation untarnished and a serious poster such as yourself is clearly equipped to single-handedly answer one simple question, before he arrives with his habitual expert input. Are you ready? Good, here's the question:

How does the fact that Dark Athena has not yet been pirated in any way benefit customers who exchange their hard-earned money for a game that has limited activations?

Remember the sound of those old cash registers? They are often used in cartoons to signify that someone is experiencing a "eureka moment". At this point, it would be helpful if you could execute a mental operation in order to hear that highly satisfying sound: ching-ching. What's that, still no sound, not to worry, a large illuminated light bulb appearing over your head will also suffice. I urge you to strive to hear the sound: once you do, and I have complete faith in you, tell chizow to perform the same operation. Having armed yourselves with this previously undiscovered insight, the three of us will be ready to sit down for a nice little chat about the wondrous ways of the world, wherein we might even touch upon the topic of DRM on Dark Athena.

 

[apoppin]

You can feel it huh? Good


DRM benefits customers by allowing a dev/publisher to stay in business and to fend off pirating of their title for the first few critical days that allows them to make money off their hard work

We know piracy is an ORGANIZED group of elitist assholes that have no morals or qualms about *stealing* what is not their to take
- so DRM insures that the publisher/dev will be around to release future games

without it .. there would be no AAA PC games being developed anymore ..
. . . you aren't really too sharp are you?
:roll:

AAoD's NOT being pirated has allowed Atari and Starbreeze to make BIG money [compared to DemiGod' debacle with their most naive dev getting a big dose of reality from the pirate asses]
- Starbreeze and Atari will be able to afford to continue to stay in business

except for the slander directed at AoDA, it is selling well - as it deserves to

screw the pirates ... same with Somalia - except shoot them

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: apoppin
You can feel it huh? Good


DRM benefits customers by allowing a dev/publisher to stay in business and to fend off pirating of their title for the first few critical days that allows them to make money off their hard work

We know piracy is an ORGANIZED group of elitist assholes that have no morals or qualms about *stealing* what is not their to take
- so DRM insures that the publisher/dev will be around to release future games

without it .. there would be no AAA PC games being developed anymore ..
you aren't really too sharp are you?
:roll:

Point me to a company that has gone out of business in recent years as a result of piracy. Why are you still talking about piracy? Haven't heard the "ching-ching" yet?

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: apoppin
DRM benefits customers by allowing a dev/publisher to stay in business and to fend off pirating of their title for the first few critical days that allows them to make money off their hard work

How many days have to transpire before we can assume that the "first few critical days" have passed?

 

[apoppin]

There is no "ching-ching" available to you
- you are incapable of it

ALL of the bigger PC Devs/publishers have 1) moved to consoles or 2) included DRM in their latest popular releases - including the move to Steam

that is the disease of piracy - it causes DRM as a reaction to theft of IP

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: apoppin

AAoD's NOT being pirated has allowed Atari and Starbreeze to make BIG money [compared to DemiGod' debacle with their most naive dev getting a big dose of reality from the pirate asses]

I thought someone provided evidence on this thread that Demigod was actually selling better. I think I remember someone else chiming in to say that Dark Athena had a smaller target audience, or words to those effect, as this was clearly nothing to do with the DRM.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: apoppin

ALL of the bigger PC Devs/publishers have 1) moved to consoles or 2) included DRM in their latest popular releases - including the move to Steam

that is the disease of piracy - it causes DRM as a reaction to theft of IP

If a game has no DRM, or very limited DRM (Demigod), and yet maintains high sales, what do you infer from this? (I am experiencing deja vu, I feel dizzy, can you ask chizow to pass on some of his medication).

Yes, the bigger companies have moved to consoles and they want you and me to follow. Guess what, you're helping them to herd us all in that direction (ching-ching).

 

[apoppin]

you thought

:roll:

All you are doing is ripping on how "inconvenient" DRM is .. without giving a crap for the owners of the IP that are being ripped off - as Demi God is being destroyed because they did not implement DRM and their MP is ruined - it is getting bad reviews because of the selfish bastards who rip them off

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: apoppin
you thought

:roll:

All you are doing is ripping on how "inconvenient" DRM is .. without giving a crap for the owners of the IP that are being ripped off - as Demi God is being destroyed because they did not implement DRM and their MP is ruined - it is getting bad reviews because of the selfish bastards who rip them off

Now, now, all this swearing.

"Demigod is being destroyed"? Please elaborate: haven't we established that it's selling better than Dark Athena (on Amazon at least)?

Do you feel that the companies employing DRM have shown the same consideration for their customers that you now request of me, or do they also qualify as "selfish bastards".

On second thoughts, maybe you should wait for chizow.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: apoppin
There is no "ching-ching" available to you
- you are incapable of it

ALL of the bigger PC Devs/publishers have 1) moved to consoles or 2) included DRM in their latest popular releases - including the move to Steam

that is the disease of piracy - it causes DRM as a reaction to theft of IP

Let's accept that piracy is the root of all this DRM. Do you feel that this gives the companies free licence to employ any methods to combat piracy, irrespective of the collateral damage inflicted on paying customers? What are your views on the "inconveniences" to which the paying customer is subjected as a result of DRM?

Two simple questions: we await your response with bated breath.

 

[VashHT]

Originally posted by: apoppin
you thought

:roll:

All you are doing is ripping on how "inconvenient" DRM is .. without giving a crap for the owners of the IP that are being ripped off - as Demi God is being destroyed because they did not implement DRM and their MP is ruined - it is getting bad reviews because of the selfish bastards who rip them off

Cite me one example of when DRM ever actually protected an IP. I'm all for it but you're defending something that does nothing to help. I mean seriously, all of these games with DRM are usually cracked BEFORE they come out or on day 1, don't give me this BS pretending like it helps protect anything.

That's the problem with DRM like this, it doesn't stop piracy one bit, and it's jsut osmething else that might go wrong (and it does for a lot of people, consider yourself lucky if you haven't experienced any problems). I don't see why you and chizow defend DRM so heavily, I'm sure everyone on here would be on board if the DRM actually worked, but none of this crap does anything to stop piracy and only screws with people who actually buy the game.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: VashHT

Originally posted by: apoppin
you thought

:roll:

All you are doing is ripping on how "inconvenient" DRM is .. without giving a crap for the owners of the IP that are being ripped off - as Demi God is being destroyed because they did not implement DRM and their MP is ruined - it is getting bad reviews because of the selfish bastards who rip them off

Cite me one example of when DRM ever actually protected an IP. I'm all for it but you're defending something that does nothing to help. I mean seriously, all of these games with DRM are usually cracked BEFORE they come out or on day 1, don't give me this BS pretending like it helps protect anything.

That's the problem with DRM like this, it doesn't stop piracy one bit, and it's jsut osmething else that might go wrong (and it does for a lot of people, consider yourself lucky if you haven't experienced any problems). I don't see why you and chizow defend DRM so heavily, I'm sure everyone on here would be on board if the DRM actually worked, but none of this crap does anything to stop piracy and only screws with people who actually buy the game.

The DRM seems to be successfully preventing piracy in the case of Dark Athena. Let's see how long that will last...

You are absolutely right on a number of counts: if DRM worked, did not adversely affect our systems in any way and did not prevent us from reselling the games we purchase, then I would be more than willing to put up with it. However, I want more guarantees.

What I am not willing to put up with are two posters who hail the advent of DRM as the second-coming, whilst refusing to turn their attention to the obvious problems and the manner in which it affects paying customers.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: apoppin
There is no "ching-ching" available to you
- you are incapable of it

ALL of the bigger PC Devs/publishers have 1) moved to consoles or 2) included DRM in their latest popular releases - including the move to Steam

that is the disease of piracy - it causes DRM as a reaction to theft of IP

Let's accept that piracy is the root of all this DRM. Do you feel that this gives the companies free licence to employ any methods to combat piracy, irrespective of the collateral damage inflicted on paying customers? What are your views on the "inconveniences" to which the paying customer is subjected as a result of DRM?

Two simple questions: we await your response with bated breath.

it is clear that NO drm is the only thing you will accept
- Steam is a DRM that inconveniences ME and i do not support them at all
. . . yet i do not go all over the forums and slander them and their games, nor do i spread FUD about them because i am inconvenienced

Cite me one example of when DRM ever actually protected an IP.

Assault on Dark Athena
:roll:

that IS the IP that the well-organized pirates are bitching about; the DRM they cannot crack

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: apoppin
There is no "ching-ching" available to you
- you are incapable of it

ALL of the bigger PC Devs/publishers have 1) moved to consoles or 2) included DRM in their latest popular releases - including the move to Steam

that is the disease of piracy - it causes DRM as a reaction to theft of IP

Let's accept that piracy is the root of all this DRM. Do you feel that this gives the companies free licence to employ any methods to combat piracy, irrespective of the collateral damage inflicted on paying customers? What are your views on the "inconveniences" to which the paying customer is subjected as a result of DRM?

Two simple questions: we await your response with bated breath.

it is clear that NO drm is the only thing you will accept
- Steam is a DRM that inconveniences ME and i do not support them at all
. . . yet i do not go all over the forums and slander them and their games, nor do i spread FUD about them because i am inconvenienced

No, you spend your entire time defending the companies employing DRM, whilst conveniently ignoring the adverse affects on paying customers. I'm sorry, but I feel that you have entirely failed to answer either of the questions, although my expectations were by no means high. You clearly have a problem with the concept of "the paying customer".

However, if your intention is to ensure that we are all aware that you hate piracy and are unconcerned about DRM, then I assure you, we were all aware about five pages ago. Once again, thanks for a really meaningful post.

Incidentally, the quote in your post "Cite me one example of when DRM ever actually protected an IP" came from VashHT rather than me. As you removed the original poster information it could appear that you are intentionally putting these words into my mouth: I already pointed out the example of Dark Athena to VashHT. I really don't mind, but chizow, well, he tends to get upset about these sort of things.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: apoppin
There is no "ching-ching" available to you
- you are incapable of it

ALL of the bigger PC Devs/publishers have 1) moved to consoles or 2) included DRM in their latest popular releases - including the move to Steam

that is the disease of piracy - it causes DRM as a reaction to theft of IP

The disease of piracy also causes legitimate customers to deal with DRM, whereas the pirates do not. Again, this thread is about how the DRM employed in Dark Athena is effecting legitimate customers, not pirates. Regardless, I couldn't care less about how the DRM is effecting pirates.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: apoppin
you thought

:roll:

All you are doing is ripping on how "inconvenient" DRM is .. without giving a crap for the owners of the IP that are being ripped off - as Demi God is being destroyed because they did not implement DRM and their MP is ruined - it is getting bad reviews because of the selfish bastards who rip them off

Now, now, all this swearing.

"Demigod is being destroyed"? Please elaborate: haven't we established that it's selling better than Dark Athena (on Amazon at least)?

Do you feel that the companies employing DRM have shown the same consideration for their customers that you now request of me, or do they also qualify as "selfish bastards".

On second thoughts, maybe you should wait for chizow.

I'm going to have to agree and disagree with both of you. Here's how I see it. Demigod did better in sales due to a larger market for the game and lack of DRM. Dark Athena's market is smaller and the DRM is a deterrent to at least a few potential customers. I think both of these facts partially account for the sales numbers we're seeing.

Demigod is getting bad MP reviews due to rampant piracy of the IP. There's no denying this fact, regardless of whether or not better game coding could have prevented it. Now destroyed is a harsh word to be sure, as the game is still selling quite well in spite of the effects of piracy. Also, the pirates are inconvenienced due to not getting updates and being unable to play Online, and the legitimate customers are enjoying the full game's experience.

I think Demigod is a bad comparison to Dark Athena though, because much of the game's focus is on multiplayer. As WoW, BF2, Call of Duty 4, Company of Heroes, etc. have shown, it's that multiplayer focused games have a sort of implied DRM because you have to have a legal key to play the majority of the game. Dark Athena is primarily a single player experience, so if the game is cracked, the pirates get nearly the full value of the game without paying for it. If Demigod had DRM and was cracked, but didn't have MP due to no legal key, the game is still significantly lacking compared to the legally purchased product.