UG,
your link doesn't work
oh well my fantasy solution, require entire population to smoke 1 or more joints a day. Mellow everyone out so they won't fight each other or get all rilled up about stuff. You can then have govenerment enforced and required intermarraige between palestinians and isrealis Make love not war hehe, its absurd but i havn't heard any other solutions so far
your link doesn't work
oh well my fantasy solution, require entire population to smoke 1 or more joints a day. Mellow everyone out so they won't fight each other or get all rilled up about stuff. You can then have govenerment enforced and required intermarraige between palestinians and isrealis
Make love not war hehe, its absurd but i havn't heard any other solutions so far Hmmm, you're correct.
My copy from cache says:
As of October 1, 2000, the Israeli Bureau of Statistics reports that Israel's population stands at 6,300,000:
Jews: 5,150,000 (82%)
Muslims: 1,150,000 (18$)
Others: 376,000 (6%)
Annual Increase: 165,000 (2.5%)
Jerusalem Population: 646,000 (69% Jewish)
Hmmm, 82+18+6=106%.
Wonder what 'Others' means.
My copy from cache says:
As of October 1, 2000, the Israeli Bureau of Statistics reports that Israel's population stands at 6,300,000:
Jews: 5,150,000 (82%)
Muslims: 1,150,000 (18$)
Others: 376,000 (6%)
Annual Increase: 165,000 (2.5%)
Jerusalem Population: 646,000 (69% Jewish)
Hmmm, 82+18+6=106%.
Wonder what 'Others' means.
Ah, but the ethnic cleansing by the Israelis was done after the Geneva Convention & the 1907 Hague Covention (of human rights of those under occupation) came into play.
The Palestinians have violated the Geneva convention as much as the Israelis, if not more. There are no differences.
The "ethnic cleansing" you reference is the relocation and actual flight of Palestinians from areas of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and the original United Nations Declared, Mandated and Chartered state of Israel. 1.5 million Palestinian refugees are in Jordan and citizens thereof. 1.3 million live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The most visible and problem are the 650,000 who have been in camps in Lebanon and Syria for decades without citizenship or work.
More concerning some of the "friendly and peaceful" residents of these camps in a moment. Hint: Palestinian Black September, Munich, 1972, Another hint: Hezbollah Guerillas.
First, a bit of background........
Two wars. 1948 and 1967. The 1948 War occured because the Arab states were against the creation of the state of Israel. The conflict began on May 15th, 1948 and continued until January 1949. Israeli troops captured land originally intended for Palestinians in the UN declaration. Problem was, they didn't give it back. Their attitude was and still is: "we took it and it's ours because they started it".
Prior to the 1967 conflict, Syria tried to divert the flow of the Jordan River. Israel responded with artillery and mortar fire on the Syrian engineering equipment. The situation slowly escalated from there. During the short conflict, the 6 day war, IDF captured the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and on the sixth day of fighting occupied the Golan Heights.
Naturally, because of both conflicts, refugees fled or were relocated from these areas. Israelis settled in the occupied areas.
However.........
If you were Israeli, would you actually desire militants becoming your next door neighbors - again? Militants who refuse your right to exist not only as a citizen, but also because of your religion? A right to exist which was legally granted by the United Nations.
Can you in all honesty say yes to that question? Do you actually believe the Palestinians will reconcile when and if the land is returned? They may, but obviously not anytime soon. It would be nice, but.........
So the fact is that Israelis are war criminals & seeing the govt itelf committed those crimes(breaking article 49 paragraph 6 of the Geneva Convention in regards to a occupying force confiscating lands & putting there own settlers on it), Israel is a war criminal state.
Crime, criminals and criminal state are a matter of perspective. It's doubtful the UN will employ force because they created the state of Israel and the Palestinian state.
Additionally the Balfour Declaration, drafted during World War I, promised ethnic Jews and Palestinians homelands of their own in exchange for fighting against the Ottoman Empire.
And this Balfour Declaration was brought to you by....... none other than (drum roll please):
The same people who brought you Australia, the Indian subcontinent, Canada and of course, the United States.
The Israeli government doesn't have much of a problem in relocating Israelis from exchanged lands. Some, but not much. Israeli settlers in the Sinai were forced out by unarmed IDF prior to the MFO occupation under the Camp David Accord. Some resisted. I witnessed this as I was in the beautiful Sinai during that time. Spent time in Israel also.
By the way, many Israeli hotels have bomb shelters in them. Was rudely awakened one morning and forced into a bomb shelter courtesy a "peaceful and friendly" Hezbollah rocket attack.
I can't agree with the forced relocation of Palestinians by Israelis. I can however agree with the withholding of seized property from the other party if they attempt to kill me.
Now as we all know if one finances a crime it makes one just as guilty as the person who committed the crime.
Depends largely upon WHO is interpreting WHAT as a crime.
Well seeing as the US govt bankrolls Israel to the tune of $25 billion a decade & US citizens (through Jewish charities) also bankroll another Israel another $50 billion a decade, it means the war crimes of Israel) are finance by the US.
More biased sensationalism.
I suppose the fact that interned IDF soldiers were taken from confinement and brutally murdered by Palestinians last week doesn't matter. Protection of POWs is defined in Chapter III, Section III, Paragraph 2 of the Geneva Convention. Intifada is war, isn't it? Well, guess what? The PA violated the Geneva Convention by failing to properly protect the IDF soldiers.
Here are just a few war crimes for you to consider. There are many, many more commited by Palestinians not included here. Enjoy!
Palestinian Black September seizure of Israeli athletes during 1972 Olympic games, Munich, Germany. Nine Israelis dead. September, 1972
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command terrorists seize part of the Qirayt Shemona settlement in northern Israel. Eighteen Israelis killed after the terrorists detonate explosives during a rescue attempt. April, 1974
The Shamir kibbutz in Israel raided by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. The four terrorists and several Israelis killed in ensuing gun battle. June, 1974
Top international terrorist, Carlos "The Jackal" holds eleven oil ministers and fifty nine civilians hostage during the OPEC meeting in Vienna, Austria. After flying to Algeria and taking delivery of several hundred million dollars in ransom money, Carlos and his Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terrorists escape. December, 1975
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and Japanese Red Army terrorists attack passenger terminal at Istanbul airport, Turkey, killing four civilians and injuring twenty. August, 1976
Four Palestinian terrorists hijack a German Lufthansa Boeing 737 and order it to fly around a number of Middle East destinations for four days. After the plane's pilot is killed by the terrorists, it is stormed by German GSG9 counter-terrorist troops, assisted by two British Army Special Air Service soldiers, when it puts down at Mogadishu, Somalia. All the ninety hostages are rescued and three terrorists killed. October, 1977
Haven't finished with the 70s. Nor did I mention the 60s, 80s or 90s. The Palestinians have been so friendly and sought such peaceful resolution to the problem.
Which make the US a war criminal state itself, By such acts under international law then one can say Palestinians have the right not just to kill occupying Israelis but Americans too.
Dude, your glass house is but oh so fragile. So I suppose Aborigines have the right to kill Australians also?
NOT!
Now you may say that only a small proportion of the Israeli budget is US funded, but in fact a good 8% of the budget comes from American funds & arround 15% of Israel's GDP comes from Jewish America charities & investments & investmwents by American companies because of the tax subsidies, etc.
Now the simple fact is just a 5% difference is the difference between a economic basketcase & a having a booming economy, so by that fact the US is bankrolling Israel.
So lets examine some economics a bit more in depth. The Israeli contribution to the Palestinian GDP is 25%, while the Palestinian contribution to the Israeli GDP is around 1%.
Israel has considered near total seperation from the Palestinians for quite some time. So this means more Palestinians unemployed. Around 120,000. Unemployment breeds complacency, revolution and ultimately more violence.
Based on historical indicators, one can easily deduct what 120,000 additional Palestinians will be doing when they are unemployed. The same activities their unemployed brethren in Lebanon and Syria engage in. Hezbollah Guerillas, cross border rocket and mortar attacks on civilians, kidnapping and murder of Israeli civilians.
However, Israel won't totally break off with the Palestinians. Despite the mistrust, the Israels depend heavily upon the Palestinians as a source of cheap labor. In turn, the Palestinians literally depend upon the Israelis for an economy. Sad, but true.
Are you all happy that your tax dollars have driven over 4 million Palestinians out of their homes & off their lands & into refugee camps & in so doing has turned the whole Arab world against the US
My tax dollars had nothing to do with initially driving Palestinians from their homes. Israel was willing to relinquish the Arab occupied territories in exchange for peace even as early as 1967. However the Arabs insisted there would be no peace with the Jewish state. Hence, the settlements.
If the Arab world is so upset than why haven't they broken diplomatic relations? They can't afford to.
Until the Israelis totally withdraw from the lands captured in the wars against the Arab aggressors, there won't be peace. Or at least initate a compromise. Many Israelis detest this notion based on previous conflicts coupled with the mass terrorism perpetrated by the Palestinians.
Until the Palestinians and their sympathizers accept the fact that the Israelis have the right to exist, again, there can't be peace.
Personally, I'm all for peace. Both sides are to blame for the unrest. Not just the Israelis as you so stauchly advocate. Both parties to the conflict engage in a very dirty war.
And finally, regarding the United Nations Human Rights Committee.... During the 1980s, this commitee was chaired by Iraq. At the exactly the same time Iraq chaired the committee, they were gassing Kurds with chemical agents. WTF?
The Palestinians have violated the Geneva convention as much as the Israelis, if not more. There are no differences.
The "ethnic cleansing" you reference is the relocation and actual flight of Palestinians from areas of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and the original United Nations Declared, Mandated and Chartered state of Israel. 1.5 million Palestinian refugees are in Jordan and citizens thereof. 1.3 million live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The most visible and problem are the 650,000 who have been in camps in Lebanon and Syria for decades without citizenship or work.
More concerning some of the "friendly and peaceful" residents of these camps in a moment. Hint: Palestinian Black September, Munich, 1972, Another hint: Hezbollah Guerillas.
First, a bit of background........
Two wars. 1948 and 1967. The 1948 War occured because the Arab states were against the creation of the state of Israel. The conflict began on May 15th, 1948 and continued until January 1949. Israeli troops captured land originally intended for Palestinians in the UN declaration. Problem was, they didn't give it back. Their attitude was and still is: "we took it and it's ours because they started it".
Prior to the 1967 conflict, Syria tried to divert the flow of the Jordan River. Israel responded with artillery and mortar fire on the Syrian engineering equipment. The situation slowly escalated from there. During the short conflict, the 6 day war, IDF captured the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and on the sixth day of fighting occupied the Golan Heights.
Naturally, because of both conflicts, refugees fled or were relocated from these areas. Israelis settled in the occupied areas.
However.........
If you were Israeli, would you actually desire militants becoming your next door neighbors - again? Militants who refuse your right to exist not only as a citizen, but also because of your religion? A right to exist which was legally granted by the United Nations.
Can you in all honesty say yes to that question? Do you actually believe the Palestinians will reconcile when and if the land is returned? They may, but obviously not anytime soon. It would be nice, but.........
So the fact is that Israelis are war criminals & seeing the govt itelf committed those crimes(breaking article 49 paragraph 6 of the Geneva Convention in regards to a occupying force confiscating lands & putting there own settlers on it), Israel is a war criminal state.
Crime, criminals and criminal state are a matter of perspective. It's doubtful the UN will employ force because they created the state of Israel and the Palestinian state.
Additionally the Balfour Declaration, drafted during World War I, promised ethnic Jews and Palestinians homelands of their own in exchange for fighting against the Ottoman Empire.
And this Balfour Declaration was brought to you by....... none other than (drum roll please):
The same people who brought you Australia, the Indian subcontinent, Canada and of course, the United States.
The Israeli government doesn't have much of a problem in relocating Israelis from exchanged lands. Some, but not much. Israeli settlers in the Sinai were forced out by unarmed IDF prior to the MFO occupation under the Camp David Accord. Some resisted. I witnessed this as I was in the beautiful Sinai during that time. Spent time in Israel also.
By the way, many Israeli hotels have bomb shelters in them. Was rudely awakened one morning and forced into a bomb shelter courtesy a "peaceful and friendly" Hezbollah rocket attack.
I can't agree with the forced relocation of Palestinians by Israelis. I can however agree with the withholding of seized property from the other party if they attempt to kill me.
Now as we all know if one finances a crime it makes one just as guilty as the person who committed the crime.
Depends largely upon WHO is interpreting WHAT as a crime.
Well seeing as the US govt bankrolls Israel to the tune of $25 billion a decade & US citizens (through Jewish charities) also bankroll another Israel another $50 billion a decade, it means the war crimes of Israel) are finance by the US.
More biased sensationalism.
I suppose the fact that interned IDF soldiers were taken from confinement and brutally murdered by Palestinians last week doesn't matter. Protection of POWs is defined in Chapter III, Section III, Paragraph 2 of the Geneva Convention. Intifada is war, isn't it? Well, guess what? The PA violated the Geneva Convention by failing to properly protect the IDF soldiers.
Here are just a few war crimes for you to consider. There are many, many more commited by Palestinians not included here. Enjoy!
Palestinian Black September seizure of Israeli athletes during 1972 Olympic games, Munich, Germany. Nine Israelis dead. September, 1972
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command terrorists seize part of the Qirayt Shemona settlement in northern Israel. Eighteen Israelis killed after the terrorists detonate explosives during a rescue attempt. April, 1974
The Shamir kibbutz in Israel raided by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. The four terrorists and several Israelis killed in ensuing gun battle. June, 1974
Top international terrorist, Carlos "The Jackal" holds eleven oil ministers and fifty nine civilians hostage during the OPEC meeting in Vienna, Austria. After flying to Algeria and taking delivery of several hundred million dollars in ransom money, Carlos and his Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terrorists escape. December, 1975
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and Japanese Red Army terrorists attack passenger terminal at Istanbul airport, Turkey, killing four civilians and injuring twenty. August, 1976
Four Palestinian terrorists hijack a German Lufthansa Boeing 737 and order it to fly around a number of Middle East destinations for four days. After the plane's pilot is killed by the terrorists, it is stormed by German GSG9 counter-terrorist troops, assisted by two British Army Special Air Service soldiers, when it puts down at Mogadishu, Somalia. All the ninety hostages are rescued and three terrorists killed. October, 1977
Haven't finished with the 70s. Nor did I mention the 60s, 80s or 90s. The Palestinians have been so friendly and sought such peaceful resolution to the problem.
Which make the US a war criminal state itself, By such acts under international law then one can say Palestinians have the right not just to kill occupying Israelis but Americans too.
Dude, your glass house is but oh so fragile. So I suppose Aborigines have the right to kill Australians also?
NOT!
Now you may say that only a small proportion of the Israeli budget is US funded, but in fact a good 8% of the budget comes from American funds & arround 15% of Israel's GDP comes from Jewish America charities & investments & investmwents by American companies because of the tax subsidies, etc.
Now the simple fact is just a 5% difference is the difference between a economic basketcase & a having a booming economy, so by that fact the US is bankrolling Israel.
So lets examine some economics a bit more in depth. The Israeli contribution to the Palestinian GDP is 25%, while the Palestinian contribution to the Israeli GDP is around 1%.
Israel has considered near total seperation from the Palestinians for quite some time. So this means more Palestinians unemployed. Around 120,000. Unemployment breeds complacency, revolution and ultimately more violence.
Based on historical indicators, one can easily deduct what 120,000 additional Palestinians will be doing when they are unemployed. The same activities their unemployed brethren in Lebanon and Syria engage in. Hezbollah Guerillas, cross border rocket and mortar attacks on civilians, kidnapping and murder of Israeli civilians.
However, Israel won't totally break off with the Palestinians. Despite the mistrust, the Israels depend heavily upon the Palestinians as a source of cheap labor. In turn, the Palestinians literally depend upon the Israelis for an economy. Sad, but true.
Are you all happy that your tax dollars have driven over 4 million Palestinians out of their homes & off their lands & into refugee camps & in so doing has turned the whole Arab world against the US
My tax dollars had nothing to do with initially driving Palestinians from their homes. Israel was willing to relinquish the Arab occupied territories in exchange for peace even as early as 1967. However the Arabs insisted there would be no peace with the Jewish state. Hence, the settlements.
If the Arab world is so upset than why haven't they broken diplomatic relations? They can't afford to.
Until the Israelis totally withdraw from the lands captured in the wars against the Arab aggressors, there won't be peace. Or at least initate a compromise. Many Israelis detest this notion based on previous conflicts coupled with the mass terrorism perpetrated by the Palestinians.
Until the Palestinians and their sympathizers accept the fact that the Israelis have the right to exist, again, there can't be peace.
Personally, I'm all for peace. Both sides are to blame for the unrest. Not just the Israelis as you so stauchly advocate. Both parties to the conflict engage in a very dirty war.
And finally, regarding the United Nations Human Rights Committee.... During the 1980s, this commitee was chaired by Iraq. At the exactly the same time Iraq chaired the committee, they were gassing Kurds with chemical agents. WTF?
Red Dawn,
>>>Unfortunately things have gotten out of hand and with the radicals on both sides going out of their way to cause trouble it is making it impossible for each side to come to a meeting of the minds <<<
I think the lion has been let out of the cage. Putin has sided with the muslims (most likely to sell arms to them,like the russians did to Iraq)and the arab states are calling for a jihad against Isreal and is removing all diplomatic ties. They are enmass supporting the PLO and this action is very likely to accelerate to a full blown war within the next few days.The US position of supporting Isreal will more than likely bring more chicken sh!t actions against the US like the USS Cole incedent and further bring us into conflict. This is starting to smell like Nam.
I am really wondering about the policy of the US now,in light of this Arab summit disposition. Arafat walks away telling Barak to "Go To Hell".
I don't think peace was on his mind.
Lets give the Jews to west texas. .
>>>Unfortunately things have gotten out of hand and with the radicals on both sides going out of their way to cause trouble it is making it impossible for each side to come to a meeting of the minds <<<
I think the lion has been let out of the cage. Putin has sided with the muslims (most likely to sell arms to them,like the russians did to Iraq)and the arab states are calling for a jihad against Isreal and is removing all diplomatic ties. They are enmass supporting the PLO and this action is very likely to accelerate to a full blown war within the next few days.The US position of supporting Isreal will more than likely bring more chicken sh!t actions against the US like the USS Cole incedent and further bring us into conflict. This is starting to smell like Nam.
I am really wondering about the policy of the US now,in light of this Arab summit disposition. Arafat walks away telling Barak to "Go To Hell".
I don't think peace was on his mind.
Lets give the Jews to west texas. .
Israel
Population: 5,842,454
note: includes about 171,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank, about 20,000 in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights, about 6,500 in the Gaza Strip, and about 172,000 in East Jerusalem (July 2000 est.) (not including millions of Palestinian Arabs in refugee camps)
Ethnic groups: Jewish 80.1% (Europe/America-born 32.1%, Israel-born 20.8%, Africa-born 14.6%, Asia-born 12.6%), non-Jewish 19.9% (mostly Arab) (1996 est.)
Area:
total: 20,770 sq km
land: 20,330 sq km
water: 440 sq km
Area - comparative: slightly smaller than New Jersey
Budget:
revenues: $40 billion
expenditures: $42.4 billion, including capital expenditures of $NA (2000 est.)
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $8.7 billion (FY99)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP: 9.4% (FY99)
USA
Population: 275,562,673 (July 2000 est.)
Ethnic groups: white 83.5%, black 12.4%, Asian 3.3%, Amerindian 0.8% (1992)
note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (especially of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.)
Area:
total: 9,629,091 sq km
land: 9,158,960 sq km
water: 470,131 sq km
note: includes only the 50 states and District of Columbia
Budget:
revenues: $1.828 trillion
expenditures: $1.703 trillion, including capital expenditures of $NA (1999)
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $276.7 billion (FY1999 est.)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP: 3.2% (FY1999 est.)
Red,
Interesting ideas. But the best I suspect Russia would do in a fight is show up after it's over and overrun a major airport as they did in Yugoslavia and then claim ?victory?. They did a damn fine job of it, too, never knew those T-72s could move so fast but I reckon when there?s no enemy the travel is quite easy eh?
As for China, unless things have changed, they're really not ready for anything major just yet. Best they might do if we get into that conflict is run another military exercise to the waters around Taiwan.
And it wouldn't be the US vs the combined might of the Arab world (btw I saw them in a photo-op with Arafat in the middle today on TV...some of those geezers look like wealthy american businessmen and nobody was wearing thier turban!). Other allied forces would Coalesce (UK, France, Netherfolks, etc.) for the smackdown.
We blew apart Iraq?s Russian equipment so easily in part because we destroyed their C&C infrastructure before really getting jiggy wit it. Stealth, ain?t it a bitch Saddam? No guarantees at all we could do that with more than one rogue nation at a time.
What am I saying? No idea, I?ve lost my train of thought. Ugh time for bed?
Interesting ideas. But the best I suspect Russia would do in a fight is show up after it's over and overrun a major airport as they did in Yugoslavia and then claim ?victory?. They did a damn fine job of it, too, never knew those T-72s could move so fast but I reckon when there?s no enemy the travel is quite easy eh?
As for China, unless things have changed, they're really not ready for anything major just yet. Best they might do if we get into that conflict is run another military exercise to the waters around Taiwan.
And it wouldn't be the US vs the combined might of the Arab world (btw I saw them in a photo-op with Arafat in the middle today on TV...some of those geezers look like wealthy american businessmen and nobody was wearing thier turban!). Other allied forces would Coalesce (UK, France, Netherfolks, etc.) for the smackdown.
We blew apart Iraq?s Russian equipment so easily in part because we destroyed their C&C infrastructure before really getting jiggy wit it. Stealth, ain?t it a bitch Saddam? No guarantees at all we could do that with more than one rogue nation at a time.
What am I saying? No idea, I?ve lost my train of thought. Ugh time for bed?
>>This is starting to smell like Nam.<<
I pray that you are wrong, because I was born in Vietnam and have saw first hand of bombing & being bomb on shot at, and fears of & harassment by the armies. I also have traveled from South to North & back to the South on train, bus & boat, 8 months after the war in 1975/76, and have witness first hand what the war has done to the landscape & the people of the country side both in the North & in the South. Again, I departed in 1993 to study my history & culture, and the 3 months on the road showed me a grim picture of what a war can do to an entire culture/race. I often weep for the unfortunate people in Vietnam, because their technology & education has regress 70 years due to a poverty stricken & corrupt government.
I hope that the current situation don?t lead to a 30 years of destruction which will take 50 or more to rebuilt a society, and many generations befor the mental pain can be mended.
Red, sounds like the perfect plot of a Tom Clancy novel President Ryan could handle it though, he could kick some butt
The situation over there is kind of ugly though, and despite what the less intelligent among us might think ("we can kick all their asses!", it's a bad situation that has to be handled carefully.....
President Ryan could handle it though, he could kick some butt The situation over there is kind of ugly though, and despite what the less intelligent among us might think ("we can kick all their asses!"
, it's a bad situation that has to be handled carefully.....Red
Every scenerio that you and I ellude to is being discussed at great lenghth in the think tanks of Rand corp and others that the government uses for these situations. They will report thier findings on some secret phone call to an advisor to the white house and top congressional leaders. Watch the retoric out of D.C. this next week.
BTW, Russia has a suck economy.They have everything to gain by taking sides in this conflict. They can sell arms,and send troops as "advisors". The arabs pay quite well. Saudia Arabia is supposedly an allie of the US(in as much as we protected them during the gulf war from invasion by Iraq) but that will not go far at all if war breaks out. It will be a free for all,with an opurtunity by rival factions in the mid east to invade and conquor thier neighbors,just as Iraq did to Quwait.
The French were in Nam first and we sent "advisors"(early sixties). Before you know it,the war machine of the US gets turned on,We make excuses for protecting some nebulous security interest,and we become no better than the Russians I mentioned.
Word War III?
Possibly
Armeggedon?
A bunch of the relegious right might think so. We have a community here who predicted it a few weeks ago and have closed the public school and have told there members to not have any contact with "outsiders". They are preparing!
(I think they're nuts!)
Something is going to break and break soon. The posturing is all done now. Both sides have thrown down the guantlet. The lines are drawn. Arabs are choosing sides and sharpening thier swords.
And we will be be sitting here contemplating loftier things like what will I have for lunch tommorow and do I need to buy gas or wait till Tuesday?
We are oblivious to the reality of the world around us. And we think we are invincable. Sad,very sad.
Every scenerio that you and I ellude to is being discussed at great lenghth in the think tanks of Rand corp and others that the government uses for these situations. They will report thier findings on some secret phone call to an advisor to the white house and top congressional leaders. Watch the retoric out of D.C. this next week.
BTW, Russia has a suck economy.They have everything to gain by taking sides in this conflict. They can sell arms,and send troops as "advisors". The arabs pay quite well. Saudia Arabia is supposedly an allie of the US(in as much as we protected them during the gulf war from invasion by Iraq) but that will not go far at all if war breaks out. It will be a free for all,with an opurtunity by rival factions in the mid east to invade and conquor thier neighbors,just as Iraq did to Quwait.
The French were in Nam first and we sent "advisors"(early sixties). Before you know it,the war machine of the US gets turned on,We make excuses for protecting some nebulous security interest,and we become no better than the Russians I mentioned.
Word War III?
Possibly
Armeggedon?
A bunch of the relegious right might think so. We have a community here who predicted it a few weeks ago and have closed the public school and have told there members to not have any contact with "outsiders". They are preparing!
(I think they're nuts!)
Something is going to break and break soon. The posturing is all done now. Both sides have thrown down the guantlet. The lines are drawn. Arabs are choosing sides and sharpening thier swords.
And we will be be sitting here contemplating loftier things like what will I have for lunch tommorow and do I need to buy gas or wait till Tuesday?
We are oblivious to the reality of the world around us. And we think we are invincable. Sad,very sad.
But burnedout, because of the 'Polish precedent', Palestinians have the legal right under intenational law to kill Israelis (including women & children)) who settled on land confiscated from Palestinians, & seeing at least 85% of Israelis live on confiscated lands they actually had the legal right to kill most of the Jews they killed in those terrorist attacks.
The 'Polish Precedents' referrs to what happened in Poland in WWII, where the Nazi occupyers were confiscating Polish lands & giving them to German Settlers (in contravention of article 49 paragraph 6 of the Geneva onvention & the 1907 Hague Convention on the Human rights of those living under occupation). The Polish Underground radioed London to ask what they should do about it. The United Nations - first coined in 1941, when the leaders of all the occupied countries (Poland, Norway, The Netherlands, Belgium, France, etc) & the British Commonwealth (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, British East Africa, Rhodesia, Sth Africa, etc), met in london & decided that there is no reason why settlers who volunterily settle on confiscated land should be imune on the suffering & sacrifice that they help creat (if no one volunteered to settle on confiscated land the occupyers would stop confiscating more lands). As such, the Polish Underground was told that as those civilian settlers are provocing war crimes they are war criminals themselves & that means that its the duty of the Polish Underground to attack & kill them. Which they did, the policy was very successful & by 1944 the only people the Nazis could get to settle on confiscated land were people who owed money to the German govt (maily tax defaulters) & were having their debts cuts as an incintive to settle on Polish lands. After the war a investingation prompted by the West German govt found that as its a war crime for occupying authorities to confiscarte land & resettle ones own nationals on it, the settlers were then war criminals thamselves & as such the Polish Underground were justified under international law to kill settlers in acts of war.
Because of this precedent Palestinians have the legal right under intenational law to kill nearly 85% of Israelis.
The 'Polish Precedents' referrs to what happened in Poland in WWII, where the Nazi occupyers were confiscating Polish lands & giving them to German Settlers (in contravention of article 49 paragraph 6 of the Geneva onvention & the 1907 Hague Convention on the Human rights of those living under occupation). The Polish Underground radioed London to ask what they should do about it. The United Nations - first coined in 1941, when the leaders of all the occupied countries (Poland, Norway, The Netherlands, Belgium, France, etc) & the British Commonwealth (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, British East Africa, Rhodesia, Sth Africa, etc), met in london & decided that there is no reason why settlers who volunterily settle on confiscated land should be imune on the suffering & sacrifice that they help creat (if no one volunteered to settle on confiscated land the occupyers would stop confiscating more lands). As such, the Polish Underground was told that as those civilian settlers are provocing war crimes they are war criminals themselves & that means that its the duty of the Polish Underground to attack & kill them. Which they did, the policy was very successful & by 1944 the only people the Nazis could get to settle on confiscated land were people who owed money to the German govt (maily tax defaulters) & were having their debts cuts as an incintive to settle on Polish lands. After the war a investingation prompted by the West German govt found that as its a war crime for occupying authorities to confiscarte land & resettle ones own nationals on it, the settlers were then war criminals thamselves & as such the Polish Underground were justified under international law to kill settlers in acts of war.
Because of this precedent Palestinians have the legal right under intenational law to kill nearly 85% of Israelis.
The simple fact is there will never be peace in the Middle East till the Palestinians have justice.
The onlt way I can see that happening is if there were UN sanctions/embargos against Israel. Like there were against South Africa, eventually, the South Africans gave up on there racist Apartheid policies.
The same thing would happen in the Levant, eventually the Israelis would give up on there racist Zionist polcies. Which created this mess in the first place as the simple fact the Israelis had their chance of peace & lost it because of their Zionist racisn. After the 67 war (well a few years afterwards), both Egypt signed over their claim to the Gaza strip to the Palestinians & Jordon signed over the their claim to the West Bank to the Palestinians to. Well as many Palestinians well tell you during that period many Palestinians were starting to accept Israeli rule, & they would have been quite happy for the West Bank/Gaza to be intergrated into Israel as long as they were given equal rights to Israelis & full citizenship to their own lands. But guess what the Israelis blew it, they refused to give the Palestinians secure tenore of their lands & houses - but if a bunch of radical Ney York Kach or Yashivi settlers moved in & settled on Palestinian land or move into a Palestinians house while the family were out (at church for example, yes 15% of Palestinians are Christians, mainly Greek Orthadox this is because the Palestinians are directly descended from they 50% of Jews who were fully Hellenised & thus were not exiled by the Romans) the settlers had instant rights of tenore - Israel also refused to give the Palestinians equal rights to water, to electricity, equal rights to travel, equal pay for equal work, & they wouldn't even let the Palestinians vote, even though it was there homeland, Even the taxes they paid wasnt spent on there own infrastucture, the Israelis would take the taxes & spend it on themselves. Palestinians couldn't even qualify for welfare even though they paid the same taxes. Palestinians couln't even get building rights for their own land, but if settlers claimed it they could get building permits straight away. They had no right to fair trials either. Many Palestinians spent 15 years in jail without even having a trial. The only reason why the Interfada started was because the Palestinians became sick of the racist apartheid policies of the Israelis.
Now if there were UN sanctions embargos against Israel, I'd give them 6 months before giving in & making a accomadation as, quite frankly the Israelis are too used to western luxuries to go without, even those Kach & Yeshiva settlers live in total luxory compared to the Palestinians, even though its the taxes of the Palestinians that pay for all there subsidised electricity & water, while the Palestinians mostly have neither.
This is where the policies of the US are getting in the way of peace as the US has used there veto in the security council to block such sanctions against Israel. Even US foreign policy experts aknowledge this & say that its because the US foreign policy agenda is dictated by domestic lobby groups, ie American politicians are scared of all the Batista cronies in Florida, so let them dictate America's Cuba policy; & American politicians are scared of the New York Jewish lobby, so they consequently let them dictate America's Middle East policies (even when Holbrook didn't use his veto powers to knock back the UN condemnation of Israel, it was because the Israelis told them they'd prefer it if Holbrook just moderated it instead. Actually both Holbrook & Dennis Ross are part of the New York Jewish Israeli lobby, they both worked as Israeli lobbyists before being employed by the govt). Every single foreign policy think tank in the US aknowledges this too.
Did you know in many countries its consided an act of treason for ones own nationals to lobby for a foreign govt (that's what diplomats are for), do you like the fact that the US foreign policy agenda is dictated by people in the pay of a foreign govt?
The onlt way I can see that happening is if there were UN sanctions/embargos against Israel. Like there were against South Africa, eventually, the South Africans gave up on there racist Apartheid policies.
The same thing would happen in the Levant, eventually the Israelis would give up on there racist Zionist polcies. Which created this mess in the first place as the simple fact the Israelis had their chance of peace & lost it because of their Zionist racisn. After the 67 war (well a few years afterwards), both Egypt signed over their claim to the Gaza strip to the Palestinians & Jordon signed over the their claim to the West Bank to the Palestinians to. Well as many Palestinians well tell you during that period many Palestinians were starting to accept Israeli rule, & they would have been quite happy for the West Bank/Gaza to be intergrated into Israel as long as they were given equal rights to Israelis & full citizenship to their own lands. But guess what the Israelis blew it, they refused to give the Palestinians secure tenore of their lands & houses - but if a bunch of radical Ney York Kach or Yashivi settlers moved in & settled on Palestinian land or move into a Palestinians house while the family were out (at church for example, yes 15% of Palestinians are Christians, mainly Greek Orthadox this is because the Palestinians are directly descended from they 50% of Jews who were fully Hellenised & thus were not exiled by the Romans) the settlers had instant rights of tenore - Israel also refused to give the Palestinians equal rights to water, to electricity, equal rights to travel, equal pay for equal work, & they wouldn't even let the Palestinians vote, even though it was there homeland, Even the taxes they paid wasnt spent on there own infrastucture, the Israelis would take the taxes & spend it on themselves. Palestinians couldn't even qualify for welfare even though they paid the same taxes. Palestinians couln't even get building rights for their own land, but if settlers claimed it they could get building permits straight away. They had no right to fair trials either. Many Palestinians spent 15 years in jail without even having a trial. The only reason why the Interfada started was because the Palestinians became sick of the racist apartheid policies of the Israelis.
Now if there were UN sanctions embargos against Israel, I'd give them 6 months before giving in & making a accomadation as, quite frankly the Israelis are too used to western luxuries to go without, even those Kach & Yeshiva settlers live in total luxory compared to the Palestinians, even though its the taxes of the Palestinians that pay for all there subsidised electricity & water, while the Palestinians mostly have neither.
This is where the policies of the US are getting in the way of peace as the US has used there veto in the security council to block such sanctions against Israel. Even US foreign policy experts aknowledge this & say that its because the US foreign policy agenda is dictated by domestic lobby groups, ie American politicians are scared of all the Batista cronies in Florida, so let them dictate America's Cuba policy; & American politicians are scared of the New York Jewish lobby, so they consequently let them dictate America's Middle East policies (even when Holbrook didn't use his veto powers to knock back the UN condemnation of Israel, it was because the Israelis told them they'd prefer it if Holbrook just moderated it instead. Actually both Holbrook & Dennis Ross are part of the New York Jewish Israeli lobby, they both worked as Israeli lobbyists before being employed by the govt). Every single foreign policy think tank in the US aknowledges this too.
Did you know in many countries its consided an act of treason for ones own nationals to lobby for a foreign govt (that's what diplomats are for), do you like the fact that the US foreign policy agenda is dictated by people in the pay of a foreign govt?
The simple fact is there will never be peace in the Middle East till the Palestinians have justice.
Justice. Ahhh, such a nice word for killing all the residents of Israel.
Justice. Ahhh, such a nice word for killing all the residents of Israel.
All Israel has to do is comply with Resolutions 242 & 465 of the United Nations Security Council - IE return all illegaly confiscated lands & give Palestinian refugees the right to return home. Plus pay compensation for the period that those homes & lands were occupied by Israely settlers (which would be restitution for breaking article 49 paragreph 6 of the Genava Convention & the 1907 Hague Convention of the human rights of people under ocupation), & the Palestinians would have justice.
Mind you Israel would have to give up this fantasy of being a racist zionist state & become a secular state, as they would no longer be able to drive Palestinians from there homes to make room for every disatisfied Jew who wants to emigrate to Israel.
But until that day happens Palestinians will have same same legal right under international law to kill the Israelis who are occupting their lands as the French underground had to kill occupying Nazis.
So Isreal could astop the violence tomorrow just by complying with UN resolutions 242 & 465, the Geneva Convention & the Hague convention. Yet the US refuses to support a embargo on Israel till they comply, even though if any other country broke those conventions the US would be the 1st to support sanctions (Sth Africa, Iraq, Serbia, etc).
So its simple peace in the middle east will only happen when the US stops being the land of hypocracy.
Mind you Israel would have to give up this fantasy of being a racist zionist state & become a secular state, as they would no longer be able to drive Palestinians from there homes to make room for every disatisfied Jew who wants to emigrate to Israel.
But until that day happens Palestinians will have same same legal right under international law to kill the Israelis who are occupting their lands as the French underground had to kill occupying Nazis.
So Isreal could astop the violence tomorrow just by complying with UN resolutions 242 & 465, the Geneva Convention & the Hague convention. Yet the US refuses to support a embargo on Israel till they comply, even though if any other country broke those conventions the US would be the 1st to support sanctions (Sth Africa, Iraq, Serbia, etc).
So its simple peace in the middle east will only happen when the US stops being the land of hypocracy.
Red:
Never said that either side was innocent or that either side had all the blame. Both are guilty to some point. What percentage, I can't say as I have not lived there for the entire time and have not witnessed every single happening over there. Oh wait. Neither has anybody else commenting on this situation. However, "The simple fact is there will never be peace in the Middle East till the Palestinians have justice." leaves out any justice for the Israeli's. If both are somewhat innocent and both somewhat guilty, both sides deserve justice.
edited out spelling error.
Never said that either side was innocent or that either side had all the blame. Both are guilty to some point. What percentage, I can't say as I have not lived there for the entire time and have not witnessed every single happening over there. Oh wait. Neither has anybody else commenting on this situation. However, "The simple fact is there will never be peace in the Middle East till the Palestinians have justice." leaves out any justice for the Israeli's. If both are somewhat innocent and both somewhat guilty, both sides deserve justice.
edited out spelling error.
Dabanshee:
Cant you spout off any other drivel than than Zionist racist this, Zionist racist that????
All Israel has to do is comply with Resolutions 242 & 465 of the United Nations Security Council - IE return all illegaly confiscated lands & give Palestinian refugees the right to return home. Plus pay compensation for the period that those homes & lands were occupied by Israely settlers (which would be restitution for breaking article 49 paragreph 6 of the Genava Convention & the 1907 Hague Convention of the human rights of people under ocupation), & the Palestinians would have justice.
Return home? The state of Isreal is there home? Illegaly confiscated? Areas won in a war and/or given to them are illegally confiscated? Quoting from human rights? How about the human rights of the Israeli's?
Mind you Israel would have to give up this fantasy of being a racist zionist state & become a secular state, as they would no longer be able to drive Palestinians from there homes to make room for every disatisfied Jew who wants to emigrate to Israel.
More standard Dabanshee garbage propoganda. Yeah, Isreal has nothing better to do with their spare time.
But until that day happens Palestinians will have same same legal right under international law to kill the Israelis who are occupting their lands as the French underground had to kill occupying Nazis.
Hold on there bubba. As far as I know, France was not given to the Nazi's after Germany lost WWII. Apples and Oranges.
So Isreal could astop the violence tomorrow just by complying with UN resolutions 242 & 465, the Geneva Convention & the Hague convention. Yet the US refuses to support a embargo on Israel till they comply, even though if any other country broke those conventions the US would be the 1st to support sanctions (Sth Africa, Iraq, Serbia, etc).
So its simple peace in the middle east will only happen when the US stops being the land of hypocracy.
even though if any other country broke those conventions the US would be the 1st to support sanctions (Sth Africa, Iraq, Serbia, etc).
Which one of those countries is a US ally?
So its simple peace in the middle east will only happen when the US stops being the land of hypocracy.
Ah, so now it is the US's fault. Oh yeah, I forgot that the Zionist racists run the US. Stupid me!
Cant you spout off any other drivel than than Zionist racist this, Zionist racist that????
All Israel has to do is comply with Resolutions 242 & 465 of the United Nations Security Council - IE return all illegaly confiscated lands & give Palestinian refugees the right to return home. Plus pay compensation for the period that those homes & lands were occupied by Israely settlers (which would be restitution for breaking article 49 paragreph 6 of the Genava Convention & the 1907 Hague Convention of the human rights of people under ocupation), & the Palestinians would have justice.
Return home? The state of Isreal is there home? Illegaly confiscated? Areas won in a war and/or given to them are illegally confiscated? Quoting from human rights? How about the human rights of the Israeli's?
Mind you Israel would have to give up this fantasy of being a racist zionist state & become a secular state, as they would no longer be able to drive Palestinians from there homes to make room for every disatisfied Jew who wants to emigrate to Israel.
More standard Dabanshee garbage propoganda. Yeah, Isreal has nothing better to do with their spare time.
But until that day happens Palestinians will have same same legal right under international law to kill the Israelis who are occupting their lands as the French underground had to kill occupying Nazis.
Hold on there bubba. As far as I know, France was not given to the Nazi's after Germany lost WWII. Apples and Oranges.
So Isreal could astop the violence tomorrow just by complying with UN resolutions 242 & 465, the Geneva Convention & the Hague convention. Yet the US refuses to support a embargo on Israel till they comply, even though if any other country broke those conventions the US would be the 1st to support sanctions (Sth Africa, Iraq, Serbia, etc).
So its simple peace in the middle east will only happen when the US stops being the land of hypocracy.
even though if any other country broke those conventions the US would be the 1st to support sanctions (Sth Africa, Iraq, Serbia, etc).
Which one of those countries is a US ally?
So its simple peace in the middle east will only happen when the US stops being the land of hypocracy.
Ah, so now it is the US's fault. Oh yeah, I forgot that the Zionist racists run the US. Stupid me!
Red:
It's a good thing then that we are just a bunch of Yahoo's flapping their gums on the net instead of making Foriegn Policy huh Frenchie
Amen brother. Although there have been a few comments and ideas here and there, if AT Forums dictated foreign policy, the nukes would have already flown and we would be sleeping with the dinosaurs....
It's a good thing then that we are just a bunch of Yahoo's flapping their gums on the net instead of making Foriegn Policy huh Frenchie
Amen brother. Although there have been a few comments and ideas here and there, if AT Forums dictated foreign policy, the nukes would have already flown and we would be sleeping with the dinosaurs....
Looks likes I'll have to explain thinks to Frenchie.
Under article 49 paragraph 6 of the Geneva convention its illegal for a occupying govt to confiscate lands belonging to the 'native population', its also illegal, where one has gained land through acts of war, to also confisate lands from the 'native population'. So the Geneva Convention covers both Palestinian property in Israel proper (won in the war of 1948, which was basically a civil war between the 'native[' Palestinian population & Jewish immigrants, even then Israel's army was more than double the size of all the Arabs armies put together, so talk of Israel being attacked on all sides is basically zionist prpaganda) & the West Bank & Gaza (& other territories won in the 6 day war of 1967, which contrary to the popular beleif of the average American, Israel started with pre-emptive attacks on Edgypt, Jordon & Syria, the only Arab/Israeli war actually started by Arabs was the 1973 Yon Kipper War).
Also, under the 1907 Hague Convention of human rights of those living under occupation, its illegal for a nation to drive the 'native populastion' off territory gained through war, & then replace them with thei4r own settlers. The Hague Convention also covers the rights of citizens of one country, where the part of the country they are living in is occupied by another country.
Hence we have UN Security Council Resolutions 242 & 465 (in which even the US couldnt veto without looking like total hypocrits as its a open & shut case that Israel violated the Geneva Convention & the Hague Convention), calling for Israel to permit all Palestinian refugees a right to return home (both to Israel proper or the occupied territories) & calling for Israel to return all confiscated properties back to the Palestinians.
Basically the Israeli/Palistinian conflict is all Israel's fault. Because they feel they had the god given right to covet other peoples lands & homes, the conflict occured. If Zionism was never conceived there would be no Israeli/Palestinian conflict today. Even if Palestinians weren't living there, there'd still be conflict because say there were Maronites living there instead, we just have a Israeli Maronite conflict today instead.
How would you Americans feel if some Brazilians claimed they were descended from Indians who were driven out of Nth America 2000 years ago (say by another tribe) & then claimed they had the god given right to take back Nth America & by force of arms drove you all into refugee camps, than confiscated your homes & lands?
BTW Frenchie, what makes you think the UN had the right to to give Palestine to the Jews? You know Israel was only created because of Truman's machinations as he was worried about losing the votes of the 'Hundreds of thousands of Jewish Constituents' if he did what his advisors recommended & parcelled a little bit of Germany & gave it to the Jews instead (seeing as it was the Germans who committed the holocaust). Consequently Truman used Marshel Plan money to bribe his way through the UN so they'd back him up. BTW, a condition of UN backing for the state of Israel was that the Israelis agreed to never drive Palestinians from their homes & to never confiscate Palestinian property. As Israel broke that agreement almost immediatly, it really makes the existence of Israel null & void as a legal entity.
The simple fact there is no logical reason for the state of Israel to exist & there's no logical reason for anyone to support the state of Israel. The only reason so many Americans support it is because the US press is controled by Jews (have you noticed 95% of hollywood films have executive produces with Jewish names) & the only reason US politicians support Israel is because the're scared of the Jewish lobby groups & Newy York Jewish voters (look at the way Hillory was always pro-Palistinian, but now shes trying to become a Senator, all of a sudden she's pro Israel). Even if one beleives in such a racist idealogy as zionism, there's not one Jew alive who could prove they were descended from the Israelites of antiquity, & anyway geneticists (& Israeli ones at that) have already proven that the ethnic group that's most closely related to the Hebrews of antiquity are the Palestinians. This is because the Romans only deported half the Jews, they did not deport the Hellenised Jews (ones that had from the days of Alexander the Great had assiminated & become good Greco Romans). The Palestinians of today are descended from those Hellenised Jews (the Arabs that invaded in the 7th Century were only very few in number & were bred into the general population). Actually as the Roman Empire became christian (with the advent of Emporer Constantine) so did the Hellenised Jews of the Levant. Even during the Crusades, when the Crusaders executed 40000 infedels at Tyre (or was it Acre) because Saladin was late with the ransom gold, half the infedels were actually Greek Orthadox. Even today 15% of Palestinians are Greek Orthadox.
Under article 49 paragraph 6 of the Geneva convention its illegal for a occupying govt to confiscate lands belonging to the 'native population', its also illegal, where one has gained land through acts of war, to also confisate lands from the 'native population'. So the Geneva Convention covers both Palestinian property in Israel proper (won in the war of 1948, which was basically a civil war between the 'native[' Palestinian population & Jewish immigrants, even then Israel's army was more than double the size of all the Arabs armies put together, so talk of Israel being attacked on all sides is basically zionist prpaganda) & the West Bank & Gaza (& other territories won in the 6 day war of 1967, which contrary to the popular beleif of the average American, Israel started with pre-emptive attacks on Edgypt, Jordon & Syria, the only Arab/Israeli war actually started by Arabs was the 1973 Yon Kipper War).
Also, under the 1907 Hague Convention of human rights of those living under occupation, its illegal for a nation to drive the 'native populastion' off territory gained through war, & then replace them with thei4r own settlers. The Hague Convention also covers the rights of citizens of one country, where the part of the country they are living in is occupied by another country.
Hence we have UN Security Council Resolutions 242 & 465 (in which even the US couldnt veto without looking like total hypocrits as its a open & shut case that Israel violated the Geneva Convention & the Hague Convention), calling for Israel to permit all Palestinian refugees a right to return home (both to Israel proper or the occupied territories) & calling for Israel to return all confiscated properties back to the Palestinians.
Basically the Israeli/Palistinian conflict is all Israel's fault. Because they feel they had the god given right to covet other peoples lands & homes, the conflict occured. If Zionism was never conceived there would be no Israeli/Palestinian conflict today. Even if Palestinians weren't living there, there'd still be conflict because say there were Maronites living there instead, we just have a Israeli Maronite conflict today instead.
How would you Americans feel if some Brazilians claimed they were descended from Indians who were driven out of Nth America 2000 years ago (say by another tribe) & then claimed they had the god given right to take back Nth America & by force of arms drove you all into refugee camps, than confiscated your homes & lands?
BTW Frenchie, what makes you think the UN had the right to to give Palestine to the Jews? You know Israel was only created because of Truman's machinations as he was worried about losing the votes of the 'Hundreds of thousands of Jewish Constituents' if he did what his advisors recommended & parcelled a little bit of Germany & gave it to the Jews instead (seeing as it was the Germans who committed the holocaust). Consequently Truman used Marshel Plan money to bribe his way through the UN so they'd back him up. BTW, a condition of UN backing for the state of Israel was that the Israelis agreed to never drive Palestinians from their homes & to never confiscate Palestinian property. As Israel broke that agreement almost immediatly, it really makes the existence of Israel null & void as a legal entity.
The simple fact there is no logical reason for the state of Israel to exist & there's no logical reason for anyone to support the state of Israel. The only reason so many Americans support it is because the US press is controled by Jews (have you noticed 95% of hollywood films have executive produces with Jewish names) & the only reason US politicians support Israel is because the're scared of the Jewish lobby groups & Newy York Jewish voters (look at the way Hillory was always pro-Palistinian, but now shes trying to become a Senator, all of a sudden she's pro Israel). Even if one beleives in such a racist idealogy as zionism, there's not one Jew alive who could prove they were descended from the Israelites of antiquity, & anyway geneticists (& Israeli ones at that) have already proven that the ethnic group that's most closely related to the Hebrews of antiquity are the Palestinians. This is because the Romans only deported half the Jews, they did not deport the Hellenised Jews (ones that had from the days of Alexander the Great had assiminated & become good Greco Romans). The Palestinians of today are descended from those Hellenised Jews (the Arabs that invaded in the 7th Century were only very few in number & were bred into the general population). Actually as the Roman Empire became christian (with the advent of Emporer Constantine) so did the Hellenised Jews of the Levant. Even during the Crusades, when the Crusaders executed 40000 infedels at Tyre (or was it Acre) because Saladin was late with the ransom gold, half the infedels were actually Greek Orthadox. Even today 15% of Palestinians are Greek Orthadox.
Thanks for passing along your <cough, cough> wisdom <cough, cough>.
Ok, were we go again:
When was the last time that the PA abided by the terms of the Geneva Convention?
its also illegal, where one has gained land through acts of war
What about the fact that the Nation was created and given to them?
which contrary to the popular beleif of the average American, Israel started with pre-emptive attacks on Edgypt, Jordon & Syria, the only Arab/Israeli war actually started by Arabs was the 1973 Yon Kipper War).
Arre you talking about formal or informal declarations? The war started long before Israel took action.
Basically the Israeli/Palistinian conflict is all Israel's fault.
Wow. Glad it is so black and white. I cant believe that we all missed this!!!!!!!!!!!
Because they feel they had the god given right to covet other peoples lands & homes, the conflict occured.
How do you know what they feel since you are not one of them?
If Zionism was never conceived there would be no Israeli/Palestinian conflict today.
What is it between you and Zionism? That word appears to be in every post you make! Cant you make the same argument that if there were no Palestinian holy war for the Israeli land then there would be no conflict?
. Even if Palestinians weren't living there, there'd still be conflict because say there were Maronites living there instead, we just have a Israeli Maronite conflict today instead.
Glad that you can tell the future and know everything about Israel and the current situation (and future possible situations)....all while living down under.
How would you Americans feel if some Brazilians claimed they were descended from Indians who were driven out of Nth America 2000 years ago (say by another tribe) & then claimed they had the god given right to take back Nth America & by force of arms drove you all into refugee camps, than confiscated your homes & lands?
What is with the hatred of Americans? You jealous or something? Again apples and oranges. At least do a hypo. that is along the same lines. Oh wait, there are no similar comparisons. If there were, we would have a definitive answer. Oh yeah, there is a definitive answer...whatever cr@p Dabanshee says. ooop, my mistake.
Ok, were we go again:
When was the last time that the PA abided by the terms of the Geneva Convention?
its also illegal, where one has gained land through acts of war
What about the fact that the Nation was created and given to them?
which contrary to the popular beleif of the average American, Israel started with pre-emptive attacks on Edgypt, Jordon & Syria, the only Arab/Israeli war actually started by Arabs was the 1973 Yon Kipper War).
Arre you talking about formal or informal declarations? The war started long before Israel took action.
Basically the Israeli/Palistinian conflict is all Israel's fault.
Wow. Glad it is so black and white. I cant believe that we all missed this!!!!!!!!!!!
Because they feel they had the god given right to covet other peoples lands & homes, the conflict occured.
How do you know what they feel since you are not one of them?
If Zionism was never conceived there would be no Israeli/Palestinian conflict today.
What is it between you and Zionism? That word appears to be in every post you make! Cant you make the same argument that if there were no Palestinian holy war for the Israeli land then there would be no conflict?
. Even if Palestinians weren't living there, there'd still be conflict because say there were Maronites living there instead, we just have a Israeli Maronite conflict today instead.
Glad that you can tell the future and know everything about Israel and the current situation (and future possible situations)....all while living down under.
How would you Americans feel if some Brazilians claimed they were descended from Indians who were driven out of Nth America 2000 years ago (say by another tribe) & then claimed they had the god given right to take back Nth America & by force of arms drove you all into refugee camps, than confiscated your homes & lands?
What is with the hatred of Americans? You jealous or something? Again apples and oranges. At least do a hypo. that is along the same lines. Oh wait, there are no similar comparisons. If there were, we would have a definitive answer. Oh yeah, there is a definitive answer...whatever cr@p Dabanshee says. ooop, my mistake.
Because if the US hadn't use its veto powers to block sanctions against Israel, the Israeli problem would have been solved just like the Sth African problem was many moons ago.
You see there was another racist state at the bottom of Africa - Apartheid South Africa, where because of ongoing sanctions & embargoes they were forced to make an accomadation with the native inhabitants. Now I personally beleived the Israeli/Palestinian conflicted would of ended about 7 years ago too if sanctions & embargos were used to force the Israels to come to an accomadation with the Palestinians & the Israelis would have given up there dream of a racist zionist state & today there could have been a secular state of Israel-Palestine.
You see as many Palestinians well tell you during the mid 70's many Palestinians were starting to accept Israeli rule, & they would have been quite happy for the West Bank/Gaza to be intergrated into Israel as long as they were given equal rights to Israelis & full citizenship to their own lands. But guess what the Israelis blew it, they refused to give the Palestinians secure tenore of their lands & houses - but if a bunch of radical New York Kach or Yashivi settlers moved in & settled on Palestinian land or move into a Palestinians house while the family were out the settlers had instant rights of tenore - Israel also refused to give the Palestinians equal rights to water, to electricity, equal rights to travel, equal pay for equal work, & they wouldn't even let the Palestinians vote, even though it was there homeland, Even the taxes they paid wasnt spent on there own infrastucture, the Israelis would take the taxes & spend it on themselves. Palestinians couldn't even qualify for welfare even though they paid the same taxes. Palestinians couln't even get building rights for their own land, but if settlers claimed it they could get building permits straight away. They had no right to fair trials either. Many Palestinians spent 15 years in jail without even having a trial. The only reason why the Interfada started was because the Palestinians became sick of the racist apartheid policies of the Israelis.
Its such racist zionist policies of the ones listed above that drove the Palestinian into hating the Israelis. Its a bit late now but if the US had had the guts to embargo Israel back then, eventually a accomadation would havebben reached, as the vast majority of Palestinians just want equal rights & protection under the law, a secular multiracial state could have come about. But then the Israelis would have to give up their Zionist dream as the only way they can house all the disaffected Jews from places like Russia, was by confiscating land from Palestinians.
You see there was another racist state at the bottom of Africa - Apartheid South Africa, where because of ongoing sanctions & embargoes they were forced to make an accomadation with the native inhabitants. Now I personally beleived the Israeli/Palestinian conflicted would of ended about 7 years ago too if sanctions & embargos were used to force the Israels to come to an accomadation with the Palestinians & the Israelis would have given up there dream of a racist zionist state & today there could have been a secular state of Israel-Palestine.
You see as many Palestinians well tell you during the mid 70's many Palestinians were starting to accept Israeli rule, & they would have been quite happy for the West Bank/Gaza to be intergrated into Israel as long as they were given equal rights to Israelis & full citizenship to their own lands. But guess what the Israelis blew it, they refused to give the Palestinians secure tenore of their lands & houses - but if a bunch of radical New York Kach or Yashivi settlers moved in & settled on Palestinian land or move into a Palestinians house while the family were out the settlers had instant rights of tenore - Israel also refused to give the Palestinians equal rights to water, to electricity, equal rights to travel, equal pay for equal work, & they wouldn't even let the Palestinians vote, even though it was there homeland, Even the taxes they paid wasnt spent on there own infrastucture, the Israelis would take the taxes & spend it on themselves. Palestinians couldn't even qualify for welfare even though they paid the same taxes. Palestinians couln't even get building rights for their own land, but if settlers claimed it they could get building permits straight away. They had no right to fair trials either. Many Palestinians spent 15 years in jail without even having a trial. The only reason why the Interfada started was because the Palestinians became sick of the racist apartheid policies of the Israelis.
Its such racist zionist policies of the ones listed above that drove the Palestinian into hating the Israelis. Its a bit late now but if the US had had the guts to embargo Israel back then, eventually a accomadation would havebben reached, as the vast majority of Palestinians just want equal rights & protection under the law, a secular multiracial state could have come about. But then the Israelis would have to give up their Zionist dream as the only way they can house all the disaffected Jews from places like Russia, was by confiscating land from Palestinians.
"What is it between you and Zionism? That word appears to be in every post you make! Cant you make the same argument that if there were no Palestinian holy war for the Israeli land then there would be no conflict?"
Don't you understand the concept of 'cause & effect', it was racist zionist policies of Israel that created the hatred Palestinians have for Israel & Israelis. Did you no the anti-semitism was unheard of in the Islamic world till Zionism rasied its ugly head.
Just as Jews have good reason to hate Nazi Germans, Palestinians have good reason to hat Zionist Israelis. Afterall, you must admit that just as Jews were victims of the German Nazis, Palestinians are the victims of the Israeli Zionists.
Don't you understand the concept of 'cause & effect', it was racist zionist policies of Israel that created the hatred Palestinians have for Israel & Israelis. Did you no the anti-semitism was unheard of in the Islamic world till Zionism rasied its ugly head.
Just as Jews have good reason to hate Nazi Germans, Palestinians have good reason to hat Zionist Israelis. Afterall, you must admit that just as Jews were victims of the German Nazis, Palestinians are the victims of the Israeli Zionists.
You see as many Palestinians well tell you
I take it that you have personally spoken to all these Palestinians?
Many Palestinians spent 15 years in jail without even having a trial.
And no Israelis have been captured and detained without trial. Again, you personally spoke to these Palestinians claiming to have been held without trial?
The only reason why the Interfada started was because the Palestinians became sick of the racist apartheid policies of the Israelis.
Wow. You were there when they were discussing starting the Interfada!?!?
Its such racist zionist policies of the ones listed above that drove the Palestinian into hating the Israelis.
There it is I was waiting for "racist Zionist" something or other. So if not for the policies that you are personally aware of and have personally verified, no Palestinians would hate any Israeli's. Wow, it's that simple!?!?!? Who woulda thought?
as the vast majority of Palestinians just want equal rights & protection under the law
That is all they want, huh? I guess you took a poll or something.
was by confiscating land from Palestinians.
Taking land, which arguably may have originally been theirs, which was given to them after the war is confiscating. Hmmm, interesting dictionary you use.
it was racist zionist policies of Israel that created the hatred Palestinians have for Israel & Israelis.
Ah, I see. They don't hate the Israeli's for any other reason. Interesting. I'd love to see your unbiased documentary support on this one.
Did you no the anti-semitism was unheard of in the Islamic world till Zionism rasied its ugly head.
Ant-semitism has been around a long time. Whether we see it or acknowledge it is another thing. Since you have not been around since Islamic beliefs started, how can you quantify this position?
Just as Jews have good reason to hate Nazi Germans
Well now, if this aint an ignorant statement, I dont know what is. Oh wait, yes I do....any statement by DUMBanshee. Come on bubba get real. When did Israel declare war on Palestinians and declare their that they wish to erradicate every palestinian in the world? Israel uses gas chamers? Performs torture and horrorific experiments on Palestinians? Uses their skin, bones, fat, and other bodile parts?
I take it that you have personally spoken to all these Palestinians?
Many Palestinians spent 15 years in jail without even having a trial.
And no Israelis have been captured and detained without trial. Again, you personally spoke to these Palestinians claiming to have been held without trial?
The only reason why the Interfada started was because the Palestinians became sick of the racist apartheid policies of the Israelis.
Wow. You were there when they were discussing starting the Interfada!?!?
Its such racist zionist policies of the ones listed above that drove the Palestinian into hating the Israelis.
There it is I was waiting for "racist Zionist" something or other. So if not for the policies that you are personally aware of and have personally verified, no Palestinians would hate any Israeli's. Wow, it's that simple!?!?!? Who woulda thought?
as the vast majority of Palestinians just want equal rights & protection under the law
That is all they want, huh? I guess you took a poll or something.
was by confiscating land from Palestinians.
Taking land, which arguably may have originally been theirs, which was given to them after the war is confiscating. Hmmm, interesting dictionary you use.
it was racist zionist policies of Israel that created the hatred Palestinians have for Israel & Israelis.
Ah, I see. They don't hate the Israeli's for any other reason. Interesting. I'd love to see your unbiased documentary support on this one.
Did you no the anti-semitism was unheard of in the Islamic world till Zionism rasied its ugly head.
Ant-semitism has been around a long time. Whether we see it or acknowledge it is another thing. Since you have not been around since Islamic beliefs started, how can you quantify this position?
Just as Jews have good reason to hate Nazi Germans
Well now, if this aint an ignorant statement, I dont know what is. Oh wait, yes I do....any statement by DUMBanshee. Come on bubba get real. When did Israel declare war on Palestinians and declare their that they wish to erradicate every palestinian in the world? Israel uses gas chamers? Performs torture and horrorific experiments on Palestinians? Uses their skin, bones, fat, and other bodile parts?
Dabanshee;
When you speak to the issues of Palestians being treated like second class citizens within Israel you make valid points. When you fail to speak to the issues of Palestinians behaving like fourth-class citizens you do your argument no service.
Just because Israelies may treat Palestinians like yesterday's left-overs doesn't mean that Palestinians should treat Israelies as targets for terrorists explosives.
If the Palestinians feel they must resort to violent acts to make their point, they should not act surprised when their actions beget violent responses: "OMG, please, World, protect us from the overly agressive Jews!"
The Arabs should know if you jump onto the back of the sleeping tiger you may someday wish to get off the fanged, clawed beast.
Whatever happened to common sense?
When you speak to the issues of Palestians being treated like second class citizens within Israel you make valid points. When you fail to speak to the issues of Palestinians behaving like fourth-class citizens you do your argument no service.
Just because Israelies may treat Palestinians like yesterday's left-overs doesn't mean that Palestinians should treat Israelies as targets for terrorists explosives.
If the Palestinians feel they must resort to violent acts to make their point, they should not act surprised when their actions beget violent responses: "OMG, please, World, protect us from the overly agressive Jews!"
The Arabs should know if you jump onto the back of the sleeping tiger you may someday wish to get off the fanged, clawed beast.
Whatever happened to common sense?
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