Deport Immigrants for using Social Services?

[BoomerD]

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...p-order-immigrants-welfare?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp

A leaked Trump order suggests he’s planning to deport more legal immigrants for using social services
Build a wall around public benefits, and make immigrants’ relatives pay for it.

Currently, the federal government looks at use of cash benefits (like Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) when it’s making “public charge” decisions, but not in-kind benefits like Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program.

This executive action, though — according to the draft obtained by Vox, which seems consistent with the Post’s reporting — would ask the Department of Homeland Security to issue a rule saying that an immigrant can’t be admitted to the US if he’s likely to get any benefit “determined in any way on the basis of income, resources, or financial need.”

People who use any of those benefits and are in the US on visas would be subject to deportation. And the order would even require the person who sponsored an immigrant into the US to reimburse the federal government for any benefits the immigrant used (something that the government can theoretically ask for in individual cases now, but rarely does).

Of course, this COULD all just be a smoke screen..."Leaked" to cause more embarrassment to the media for "fake news."

IF it's true, it's not something with which I completely disagree. I've wondered for years why people can come to this country and get welfare, social security and medicare...without having ever worked here and paid into the systems.
BUT, I'm sure (again) if it's true, it will create quite a shitstorm. That will be fun to watch.

 

[First]

Huh? How on earth would someone get SS or Medicare w/o working? Do you understand how earned entitlements work? i.e. see payroll taxes.

Welfare is different, of course, but is such a small part of the budget as to be utterly inconsequential by comparison.

 

[BoomerD]

Huh? How on earth do undocumenteds get SS or Medicare w/o working? Do you understand how earned entitlements work?

Dude...it's not just aimed at ILLEGAL immigrants...Legal immigrants are being scrutinized as well.

(and yes, ILLEGAL immigrants get some social services as well.)

Unauthorized immigrants aren’t spared by the order: It would prevent families from getting the child tax credit if the parents are unauthorized (even if the children are US citizens), and it would prevent an unauthorized immigrant from being eligible for Social Security during the time he was unauthorized (even if he was paying into the system, as many do, using a fake Social Security number). But for the most part, this order doesn’t crack down on unauthorized immigrants to protect legal immigrants; it cracks down on immigrants, and their US citizen children, for the sake of native-born citizens.

Again, this COULD just be pure bullshit, "leaked" on purpose.

 

[First]

Dude...it's not just aimed at ILLEGAL immigrants...Legal immigrants are being scrutinized as well.

(and yes, ILLEGAL immigrants get some social services as well.)

Yes my bad, corrected. But my point ends up being identical; how does someone, legal immigrant for instance, get SS without paying the minimum 40 quarters of private sector payroll taxes that is required by the SSA? Magic? Osmosis? They have to pay in. That's it. End of story.

And WRT illegal or legal immigrants getting welfare and other social services, how is that different from legal citizens? I'm just curious.

 

[IronWing]

My proposal is to bill employers of illegal immigrants for the costs of social services used by illegal immigrants. Push the costs back onto the beneficiaries of illegal immigration.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

As a sponsor/co-sponsor for several legal immigrants I had to prove I could support them and they would not require any social services.

https://www.uscis.gov/i-864

 

[pcgeek11]

I thought ( maybe mistakenly so ) that a legal immigrant had to be able to support themselves or their sponsor would provide until they could. Or they would not be allowed entry.

Personally I don't think they should be allowed entry without a viable way to support themselves. NOTE: I am talking about legal immigrants not refugees. Deport them as far as I am concerned.

I think the protest would be awe inspiring and epic seeing as how they are in a panic over nothing these days anyway. Every time someone in the White House farts they come out with signs and pitchforks.

 

[tmc]

i don't understand how you could get social security benefits without paying into the system first.
what other social service systems are there? are we talking food stamps, WIC, etc.?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Social Services is not Social Security. Social Services are welfare, WIC, TANF...etc.

If a sponsor or business can't prove the potential immigrant will have the means to support themselves without the need for social services they will not receive an immigrant visa.

 

[Jhhnn]

Social Services is not Social Security. Social Services are welfare, WIC, TANF...etc.

If a sponsor or business can't prove the potential immigrant will have the means to support themselves without the need for social services they will not receive an immigrant visa.

I rather suspect that the rules are different for refugees seeking asylum. It seems pointless to let them in only to starve.

 

[dainthomas]

I thought ( maybe mistakenly so ) that a legal immigrant had to be able to support themselves or their sponsor would provide until they could. Or they would not be allowed entry.

Personally I don't think they should be allowed entry without a viable way to support themselves. NOTE: I am talking about legal immigrants not refugees. Deport them as far as I am concerned.

I think the protest would be awe inspiring and epic seeing as how they are in a panic over nothing these days anyway. Every time someone in the White House farts they come out with signs and pitchforks.

That's a real dick thing to say. Send people back to have their heads chopped off or be imprisoned? Fortunately most civilized people disagree.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I rather suspect that the rules are different for refugees seeking asylum. It seems pointless to let them in only to starve.

I'm quite certain that is the case as well. However, in the case of legal immigrants that are using social services they no longer meet the requirements they had to meet to get a Visa/Permanent Resident status.

 

[pcgeek11]

That's a real dick thing to say. Send people back to have their heads chopped off or be imprisoned? Fortunately most civilized people disagree.

I am talking about Legal Immigrants NOT Refugees as I stated in my post.

Do you think we should allow immigrants to come in and live off our tax dollars?

 

[theeedude]

Well, I guess we don't need people like this anymore:
http://www.businessinsider.com/whatsapp-jan-koum-lived-on-food-stamps-2014-2

WhatsApp co-founder, Jan Koum, 37, was born in Ukraine. He arrived in the U.S. when he was just 16 years old and his family struggled. They lived on food stamps

What this will really end up delivering is recent immigrant children forgoing subsidized health insurance to avoid risking their status and delaying preventative care, which will end up costing society far more in the long run. Another penny wise and pound foolish policy from modern day conservatives.

 

[Fern]

How can illegal immigrants get social services?

Easy, steal a SS#:

The SSA's inspector general has identified 6.5 million number-holders age 112 -- or older -- for whom no death date has been entered in the main electronic file, called Numident.

The audit, dated March 4, 2015, concluded that SSA lacks the controls necessary to annote death information on the records of number-holders who exceed "maximum reasonable life expectancies."

"We obtained Numident data that identified approximately 6.5 million numberholders born before June 16, 1901 who did not have a date of death on their record," the report states.

Some of the numbers assigned to long-dead people were used fraudulently to open bank accounts.

And thousands of those numbers apparently were used by illegal immigrants to apply for work

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/...-says-millions-social-security-numbers-still/

My acct firm is in the tax prep biz. There's a whole hell of lot more stolen SS#'s that don't pop up as belonging to people 112 yrs of age.

Fern

 

[BoomerD]

How can illegal immigrants get social services?

Easy, steal a SS#:



http://www.politifact.com/virginia/...-says-millions-social-security-numbers-still/

My acct firm is in the tax prep biz. There's a whole hell of lot more stolen SS#'s that don't pop up as belonging to people 112 yrs of age.

Fern

Even more common is to pop out an anchor baby. As a US citizen, the child can be eligible for a boatload of services based on family income.

 

[Fern]

Yep.

And they needn't be born here. Bring 'em over and apply for 'delayed birth certificate'.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

Even more common is to pop out an anchor baby. As a US citizen, the child can be eligible for a boatload of services based on family income.

So what? Those are, by definition, *American children* entitled to the same benefits as the rest. Don't like that? Too bad. Change the Constitution. Quit whining.

In case you hadn't noticed, it's not like they got to pick their parents, either.

 

[Jaskalas]

Deport Immigrants for using Social Services?

That's a result of our antiquated view of social services. When the majority are literally dependent on them, the perception of leeches will change by necessity. It'll simply be a question of whether our GDP can sustain a certain number of people or not. Also maybe a question of whether that money is spent here or siphoned off overseas... but I digress.

As a supporter of UBI, I find this question is merely a failure of our current system.

 

[agent00f]

How can illegal immigrants get social services?

Easy, steal a SS#:



http://www.politifact.com/virginia/...-says-millions-social-security-numbers-still/

My acct firm is in the tax prep biz. There's a whole hell of lot more stolen SS#'s that don't pop up as belonging to people 112 yrs of age.

Fern

Literally from your own link:

The good news is that the auditors found no instances of people illegally collecting Social Security through one of these old numbers.

...
Auditors found that 66,920 of the numbers had been used by people for whom the government received wage reports from 2006 and 2011. One of the numbers appeared on 613 different wage reports.

That means people were using the numbers in job applications and 3,873 of the numbers turned up in E-Verify inquiries, an Internet-based system that allows employers to determine whether potential hirees are entitled by immigration laws to work in the U.S.

Evidently they're being use to pay taxes instead of collect benefits.

Why is it always conservatives who post self-owning sources.

 

[Jhhnn]

Literally from your own link:


Evidently they're being use to pay taxes instead of collect benefits.

Why is it always conservatives who post self-owning sources.

Because they rarely read past the headline & because it reinforces their conspiracy theories about welfare cheaters & other stupid shit.

 

[desura]

Yeah, this article is why I have increasingly been skeptical of Vox.com, and slate.com as well. There is certainly an editorial comment and a selective presentation of information.

It should be obvious that we should only be admitting to America people who can pay their own way.

 

[First]

Literally from your own link:


Evidently they're being use to pay taxes instead of collect benefits.

Why is it always conservatives who post self-owning sources.

Yeah, agreed, another very odd post from Fern when reading his own link would have easily clarified how infrequent SS# stealing by illegal immigrants is. Though I love the unverified anecdote he used at the end, almost as credible as his previous claims that Trump's tax returns really wouldn't reveal that much new information about him. Because, you know, Fern's a CPA...

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeah, this article is why I have increasingly been skeptical of Vox.com, and slate.com as well. There is certainly an editorial comment and a selective presentation of information.

It should be obvious that we should only be admitting to America people who can pay their own way.

Wut? I referenced the headline about SS numbers.

 

[BoomerD]

Too many people keep focusing on illegal immigrants...but the big part of this story is that LEGAL immigrants could get deported for use of the various social services.

For me, that's of far greater importance.