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Democratic Party - Clueless & Feckless - is the D party done?

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Well, those voters could not see the forest through the trees, but one has to admit, literally supporting genocide is a good reason for a lot of trees to be there. Who knew, genocide against a people was some people's hard line no matter what.
 
ondma said:
Well, it is easy for Squished to blame everything on Biden. It is called scapegoating. Somehow Squished has convinced himself that if Biden had withdrawn earlier, the Dems would magically have won. Yes, Biden should have resigned before the convention and allowed an open nominating convention, but I am not sure anyone would have been able to pass Harris as the nominee. Her having a few more months to campaign IMO would not have changed the outcome. The Dem party is in serious trouble with their messaging, and needs a serious soul searching before the next presidential election, or even the midterms. Hopefully, though, even by the midterms the Reps will have created such a s..t show that even the out of touch Dems will be able to retake at least one house of Congress, or maybe both.
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We don't know and we can never know. But the evidence is suggestive that Harris never had a chance in the general election. Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden won the national PV by 2% and 4.5%, respectively, over DJT. Meanwhile, Harris lost by 1.5% during an election cycle when the U.S. macroeconomy was solid/resilient, and we were not embroiled in any wars (yes, we were very involved in Ukraine and Israel, but not directly in the fights).

Historians will spend a long time dissecting how we lost this election to a corrupt criminal and I'm not saying it should have been an easy win.* All we're saying is that if Joe Biden had just quit while he was still ahead, the Democratic primaries would have sorted themselves out. "Let the cream rise to the top" and I personally am convinced Kamala Harris is not the Democratic nominee. Even amongst our voters, she just isn't that popular. Many millions of (D) voters simply stayed home in November.

* By the end, voters really hate Joe Biden.
 
ondma said:
Well, it is easy for Squished to blame everything on Biden. It is called scapegoating. Somehow Squished has convinced himself that if Biden had withdrawn earlier, the Dems would magically have won. Yes, Biden should have resigned before the convention and allowed an open nominating convention, but I am not sure anyone would have been able to pass Harris as the nominee. Her having a few more months to campaign IMO would not have changed the outcome. The Dem party is in serious trouble with their messaging, and needs a serious soul searching before the next presidential election, or even the midterms. Hopefully, though, even by the midterms the Reps will have created such a s..t show that even the out of touch Dems will be able to retake at least one house of Congress, or maybe both.
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Harris never won a primary in 2020, don't know why you think she would have been unbeatable in 2024. I think she would have gotten wrecked by Whitmer or Shapiro.
 
SteveGrabowski said:
Harris never won a primary in 2020, don't know why you think she would have been unbeatable in 2024. I think she would have gotten wrecked by Whitmer or Shapiro.
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Yep. This has been mentioned numerous times that Biden stepping down by no means equals Harris winning the primary. And if she did win, it means she would have done a great job and been a much much stronger candidate - and with time. But these people have an agenda.
 
SteveGrabowski said:
Harris never won a primary in 2020, don't know why you think she would have been unbeatable in 2024. I think she would have gotten wrecked by Whitmer or Shapiro.
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LOL Harris quit before the Iowa caucuses. That's how popular she is amongst her own party. 🤣 I myself don't hate or like her, but it's the reality.

If your strategic goal is to win PA/MI/WI in the general, then Shapiro or Whitmer would make a heck of a lot more sense.

I can get onboard that Harris was dealt a bad hand with 100 days to go, but losing the national PV outright to the J6 lead insurrectionist is pretty damning evidence IMHO.
 
manly said:
LOL Harris quit before the Iowa caucuses. That's how popular she is amongst her own party. 🤣 I myself don't hate or like her, but it's the reality.

If your strategic goal is to win PA/MI/WI in the general, then Shapiro or Whitmer would make a heck of a lot more sense.

I can get onboard that Harris was dealt a bad hand with 100 days to go, but losing the national PV outright to the J6 lead insurrectionist is pretty damning evidence IMHO.
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Harris likely dealt herself that hand, helping cover up for Dementia Joe until it was too late to choose a good candidate. LOL the DNC putting all their eggs in the basket of a law and order prosecutor. Talk about taking the left for granted while trying to show how right wing they were since like Schumer said, for every working class voter they lose they would pick up two GOP votes in the suburbs. Fuck the Democratic party, that shit needs to be burned to the ground.
 
SteveGrabowski said:
Harris likely dealt herself that hand, helping cover up for Dementia Joe until it was too late to choose a good candidate. LOL the DNC putting all their eggs in the basket of a law and order prosecutor. Talk about taking the left for granted while trying to show how right wing they were since like Schumer said, for every working class voter they lose they would pick up two GOP votes in the suburbs. Fuck the Democratic party, that shit needs to be burned to the ground.
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The Democratic party does have to deal with a completely broken media and massive right-wing mediasphere. And the fact that their policies are a bit harder to sell vs plain ole' hate. So yes they are starting with a noticeable disadvantage. But even with those factors taken into consideration - they still really suck as a party and make absolutely boneheaded and terrible choices over and over and over again. And so far we are seeing, the majority of the party hasn't learned a goddamn thing yet. It's a joke.
 
MrSquished said:
Yep. This has been mentioned numerous times that Biden stepping down by no means equals Harris winning the primary. And if she did win, it means she would have done a great job and been a much much stronger candidate - and with time. But these people have an agenda.
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I'm very sick of the cope from Democrats that Harris was the best and brightest and how she ran a perfect campaign. This party has lost to Bush twice and Trump twice and wants to pretend it's just messaging as opposed to the people hating the party and hating status quo neoliberalism.
 
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MrSquished said:
The Democratic party does have to deal with a completely broken media and massive right-wing mediasphere. And the fact that their policies are a bit harder to sell vs plain ole' hate. So yes they are starting with a noticeable disadvantage. But even with those factors taken into consideration - they still really suck as a party and make absolutely boneheaded and terrible choices over and over and over again. And so far we are seeing, the majority of the party hasn't learned a goddamn thing yet. It's a joke.
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I disagree that they're making bonehead choices. They'd much rather lose elections than let the left take the party. Being a well funded controlled opposition is better than having those bribes and the government-corporate revolving doors dry up for them.
 
manly said:
Oh come on Steve, who actually is saying this? 🤣 Is there really such a thing as a Kamala stan??
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Did you take a break from this forum the week after the election? Most of the liberal posters here thought she ran an amazing campaign and would try to rip my fucking head off when I mentioned maybe it wasn't such a great thing to campaign with Liz Cheney. Same ones who tried to rip my head off a year ago when I said it was time to have a real primary to replace Biden.
 
SteveGrabowski said:
Did you take a break from this forum the week after the election? Most of the liberal posters here thought she ran an amazing campaign and would try to rip my fucking head off when I mentioned maybe it wasn't such a great thing to campaign with Liz Cheney. Same ones who tried to rip my head off a year ago when I said it was time to have a real primary to replace Biden.
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Meh, that's a difference of opinion. Like I respect and understand your points, but don't always agree. I know what you're referencing, but maybe you're exaggerating because I don't remember those liberal posters literally being Kamala stans.*

In hindsight, there was ridiculous irrational exuberance right after Harris destroyed DJT in the only debate.** But if people were still that gung ho after Harris lost, I don't remember it. Reasonable people can disagree on the subjective "quality" of her campaign. You'd have to be crazy to still consider her the "best and the brightest."

* Not that it matters what one crazed voter thinks, but feel free to link to an example. At least I could laugh in our shared misery.

** IIRC Harris peaked at about 3% lead in "national polling average." Well within the margin of error (AND we all know how the EC actually works, D+3 is a tie); but some people were acting as if Dems were gonna win the trifecta LOL. It's funny that after the disastrous Biden debate, some peeps said nobody cares about debates anyway so just ride it out. But after the Harris debate win, the takeaway was "let's go and run up the score now."
 
I mean the more we see what Biden and Blinken assisted in happening, I mean those trees those voters couldn't see through were a pretty thick arrangement of trees.

This is Gaza - and a big reason this happened is because the US didn't only stand by, they literally gave them the bombs to do this with. Literally assisted in the genocidal wiping of a culture right off of a map. If they didn't kill or maim them, they are 100% displacing them.

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MrSquished said:
The Democratic party does have to deal with a completely broken media and massive right-wing mediasphere. And the fact that their policies are a bit harder to sell vs plain ole' hate. So yes they are starting with a noticeable disadvantage. But even with those factors taken into consideration - they still really suck as a party and make absolutely boneheaded and terrible choices over and over and over again. And so far we are seeing, the majority of the party hasn't learned a goddamn thing yet. It's a joke.
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Tbh the democrat leaning parts of the media are broken as hell too. MSNBC, CNN, CBS, NY Times, Washington Post used to shit nonstop on Bernie to convince everyone he was unelectable and look where it has gotten us. But the rightwing media on Clear Channel and Fox News where every single host beats the same outrage of the day into the ground radicalized so much of the GOP base and primed them to want someone exactly like Trump. God I hate seeing it in my family.
 
MrSquished said:
Yep. This has been mentioned numerous times that Biden stepping down by no means equals Harris winning the primary. And if she did win, it means she would have done a great job and been a much much stronger candidate - and with time. But these people have an agenda.
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So you really think the party of DEI and identity politics would have passed up a chance to have an African American woman as their candidate and possibly the first ever president? One who is the sitting VP to boot? Yea, right.
 
MrSquished said:
I mean the more we see what Biden and Blinken assisted in happening, I mean those trees those voters couldn't see through were a pretty thick arrangement of trees.

This is Gaza - and a big reason this happened is because the US didn't only stand by, they literally gave them the bombs to do this with. Literally assisted in the genocidal wiping of a culture right off of a map. If they didn't kill or maim them, they are 100% displacing them.

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Ummm... isnt HAMAS the proponent of "from the river to the sea", vowing to wipe out Israel and denying they have any right to exist at all? That sure sounds like genocide to me, and they have been promoting this policy and backing it up with terrorism for decades. And lets not forget who initiated the conflict with a horrendous terror attack. Maybe to balance the picture you should show some pictures of the Israelis who were raped or slaughtered in front of their families, or taken hostage, undergoing who knows what kind of torture and debasement, for over a year now.
 
ondma said:
Ummm... isnt HAMAS the proponent of "from the river to the sea", vowing to wipe out Israel and denying they have any right to exist at all? That sure sounds like genocide to me, and they have been promoting this policy and backing it up with terrorism for decades. And lets not forget who initiated the conflict with a horrendous terror attack. Maybe to balance the picture you should show some pictures of the Israelis who were raped or slaughtered in front of their families, or taken hostage, undergoing who knows what kind of torture and debasement, for over a year now.
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You clearly don't know what genocide is.
 
nickqt said:
You clearly don't know what genocide is.
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"Genocide is the intentional destruction of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group." That sure sounds to me like what HAMAS wants to do to Israel. Or maybe you think they will just ask nicely and Israel will say "ok, we give up. We on longer want to exist as a nation."
 
ondma said:
So you really think the party of DEI and identity politics would have passed up a chance to have an African American woman as their candidate and possibly the first ever president? One who is the sitting VP to boot? Yea, right.
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The Democratic party DID pass up that chance in 2020. She is/was a terrible candidate.
 
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