Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
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What kind of a dumbass question is this?
Do you think the Democrats are going to go any easier on McCain?
Oh wait... he's white... so of course his patriotism isn't in doubt even though he could be a "Manchurian candidate"... what was I thinking?
:roll:
"She was taking every opportunity to get a dig in there. You know, that?s all right. That?s her right. That?s her right to kind of twist the knife a little bit,? he says as he kind of twists the knife a little bit. :laugh:
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
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The patriotism question may be stupid, but it is relevant because:
Obama spent 20 years going to church with a guy who blamed the US for 9-11.
Obama spent years on a board with a 60's radical terrorist who proclaimed that he didn't do enough to change America.
Obama's wife famously said "For the first time in my adult lifetime, I?m really proud of my country"
All these little things start to add up after a while.
Obama is an unknown with little experience and he is basically asking people to take a risk by voting for him. As these little things continue to add up people are going to wonder if he is a risk worth taking. Especially when the other choice is John McCain who is highly popular on both sides of the isle.
I would hope that in a debate during the general campaign, the moderator wouldn't ask such worthless questions to Obama or McCain
The patriotism question is not relevant. It's stupid and you know it.
You realize that Obama has nearly as high a favorable rating as McCain does (within 5 points) and this is after being the subject of relentless attacks for months? I'll make a bet with you that Obama's favorability rating eclipses McCain's within 1 month of Obama wrapping up the Democratic nomination. As soon as the Democrats turn their guns on McCain instead of each other, he's going to get demolished.
I also like how all the things you mentioned that are negatives are based on things that people Obama knows did. Basically you are saying "Look! Obama sat near all these bad people!" If that's the best attack you've been able to glean from wherever you get your talking points, it's going to be a long, terrible summer for the Republican party.
I guess we'll see when the general election heats up.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that Obama is somehow unpatriotic... but if the democrats current goals are nomination the candidate who's going to perform best, they should question whether or not it will matter to voters in November (in addition to the myriad of other flaws that both candidates have)
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
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McCain spent years in a POW camp being brainwashed by the Chinese.
His entire political career has been set up by the communists.
He's now being positioned by the commies to become president.
The Texas Hold'Em craze has been pioneered by the commies as well.
One night as he's watching a televised poker tournament, the queen of diamonds is going to be turned over at whichi point McCain is going to launch a full strike on several European nations simultaneously which is why we still have troops in Germany.
Now what were you saying?
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
The kind of people shallow enough to believe the questions about his patriotism wouldn't vote for Obama anyway. It wouldn't matter if Obama draped himself in a flag, wore a crown and held a torch, and had sparklers coming out her ears, nose and ass every day. Those idiots will be voting McCain regardless They don't matter.
The only things that matters are the swing votes. Obama can get those away from McCain. Hillary cannot.
sportage
Lifer
- Feb 1, 2008
- 11,492
- 3,163
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I have now seen the debate and have to take my earlier comments back.
The moderators for this debate were AWFUL!!!!
This way a junk tabloid debate hosted by moderators soooo far out of tough with reality. The moderators were either trying to make points for the network ratings, or blinded by their huge million dollar salaries to ask other than meaningless questions.
If I were Obama or Hillary, and I knew what was in store, I would have skipped this totally tabloid hosted debate.
ABC... should be WAJ (what a joke)...
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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You're full of shit beyond words... seriously.
- Trinity Church is the largest black church in America, with a congregation of more than 8,000.
- Bill Ayers is a professor at the University of Illinois where Obama also was a professor. OMG, years on a board! You meant "in a faculty," right? (edit: oops, looked it up, not even that! Ayers is at UI-Chicago while Obama was at UofC Law School).
- Those words are out of context, and note the "REALLY proud" part.
- McCain spent 5 years getting brainwashed in a Viet Cong prison camp.
- McCain is also highly UNpopular on both sides of the aisle as well, as you know all too well.
The only things that start up are: how many of your lies do you think we're going to listen to before we get fed up?
While I know I won't be voting for McCain is this seriously an issue? Yea, he was tortured but that was long ago and I'm sure hes had loads of therapy...
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
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It is about his judgement.
It is not about Obama being patriotic or loving his country, it is about the way Obama views his country.
He went to Wright's church for 20 years, but only after the story hits the news does he distance himself from him.
He had to have known that Bill Ayers was a terrorist, but he still sat beside him and worked with him and even let him host a fund raiser for him.
Michelle Obama's statement was just plain stupid. But when you take her statement along with some of her past statements about the country and you add them to the view of Obama's church and people are going to start wondering how Obama views his country.
Then you add to it this take from Time magazine:
and
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
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How many years McCain spent with that watch up his ass is IMO no more of an issue that any of the silly things that PJ brought up about Obama. I'm just letting the Limbaughite dittohead know that if he wants to play his crowd's usual game of 6 degrees of idiotic intrigue, that his candidate has a whole house full of old skeletons for the rest of us to dig through.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
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What does the size of his church have to do with anything?
From the Washington Post:
and the Huffington Post link
from the same post:
BTW your attacks on McCain will never fly. McCain was given a chance to be released after two years as a POW and refused unless everyone captured before him was let go first.
Man you're trying really hard here. So basically your argument is that people with whom Obama associates have said and done things that are not patriotic.
Okay, so what? If you really think that people are going to wonder how much Obama loves America and are not going to vote for him because someone he knows said something bad about our country you've got an uphill battle on your hands.
You can repeat this stuff all you want, what I'm telling you is that this is a pretty pathetic line of attack. You are going to need much much better then this to even dent the guy. I mean I'm sure this stuff plays very well on right wing talk radio, but that's the lunatic fringe that wouldn't vote for Obama no matter what.
I highly suggest you guys go back to the drawing board and look for some better things then this, because if this is the best you have... you are in deep deep trouble.
Oh by the way, Slate magazine is now asking for submissions for a game making fun of this guilt by association crap that people are trying to pull right now. It's a variation of the "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" game, but their version is the "six degrees of Adolph Hitler". The goal is to tie politicians, friends, enemies, etc. to Hitler in 6 steps or fewer.
Ahhh! Everyone's a Nazi!
Oh, and ProJo if you're talking about Obama going to Ayers' house to have an organizing meeting that assertion is false.
Ahhh! Everyone's a Nazi!
Oh, and ProJo if you're talking about Obama going to Ayers' house to have an organizing meeting that assertion is false.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
- 7
- 0
I think you are missing the point eskimo.
Willie Horton was a pretty pathetic line of attack as well, but it worked.
It brought into question the judgement of Dukakis who allowed a convicted murder serving a life sentence to leave jail for the weekend.
Simple questions that voters are going to ask themselves:
Why is Obama going to church with a guy who refers to Americans as "Us of KKK A" or said "he government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."
Why is Obama sitting on the board of the Woods Fund with an admitted terrorist?
Remember the presidency is a popularity contest as much as anything else and people tend to vote for the candidate who they personally like more than anything else. And they vote for the person who they would feel most comfortable having a beer with. People are going to start looking at all of Obama's "friends" and start question whether they could see themselves hanging out with Obama as well.
Willie Horton was a pretty pathetic line of attack as well, but it worked.
It brought into question the judgement of Dukakis who allowed a convicted murder serving a life sentence to leave jail for the weekend.
Simple questions that voters are going to ask themselves:
Why is Obama going to church with a guy who refers to Americans as "Us of KKK A" or said "he government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."
Why is Obama sitting on the board of the Woods Fund with an admitted terrorist?
Remember the presidency is a popularity contest as much as anything else and people tend to vote for the candidate who they personally like more than anything else. And they vote for the person who they would feel most comfortable having a beer with. People are going to start looking at all of Obama's "friends" and start question whether they could see themselves hanging out with Obama as well.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
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The size of the church is very relevant. You hacks try to make it out like this is some small congregation, some radical church, and not a massive mega-church that is part of the United Church of Christ.
And OMG, he served a couple years on the board of the Woods Fund, one the largest non-profit anti-poverty groups in Chicago. And you do realize that Ayers was acquitted, right? And that he's been employed by the State of Illinois as a tenured professor of UIC for like 2 decades? And that he is still on the board of the Woods Fund, along with high-ranking executives of BP and UBS?
And you actually believe that this is going to be his Willie Horton? How stupid are you?
I think that sums it up.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
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We'll see I guess. My bet still stands. None of these issues have the direct participation, sufficient gasp-worthiness, or sufficient ties to Obama to be that.
True Willie Horton was a pathetic smear attempt, but it had tons of direct participation, gasp-worthiness, and ties to Dukakis. It also involved a black guy raping a white woman which played into everyone's favorite racist stereotype. These are nothing alike.
By the way I can tie McCain to Hitler in only 4 steps! (It goes McCain hugs 1.) Bush who is related to Nazi supporter 2.) Prescott Bush who worked with 3.) Fritz Thyssen who helped fund 4.) Hitler! Admittedly if you take the Prescott Bush path to Hitler it gets pretty easy, so the game might have to disallow that one considering the huge range of Bush connections. It could ruin all the fun.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
- 7
- 0
I am sorry, but you guys are being to rational about this.
For many people elections aren't about being rational. They are about not voting for Hillary because she is a bitch. They are about voting for Obama because he offers "hope." They are about not voting for Dukakis because he looks stupid riding in a tank. They are about voting for Bush over Gore and Kerry because Gore is condescending and talks down to people and Kerry is arrogant.
In the end the people who don't spend their days reading blogs and posting on-line about the candidates will vote for the person they personally like the most and the person they trust the most. And right now Obama is losing ground in both cases.
For many people elections aren't about being rational. They are about not voting for Hillary because she is a bitch. They are about voting for Obama because he offers "hope." They are about not voting for Dukakis because he looks stupid riding in a tank. They are about voting for Bush over Gore and Kerry because Gore is condescending and talks down to people and Kerry is arrogant.
In the end the people who don't spend their days reading blogs and posting on-line about the candidates will vote for the person they personally like the most and the person they trust the most. And right now Obama is losing ground in both cases.
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