Democratic Debate

[ScottyB]

I didn't have all that much respect for Mr. Snuffleupagus before this debate. I have none at all now.

 

[rockyct]

I guess I didn't miss much.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: tallest1
Oh wow, these moderators are incredibly pro-clinton


Heres a true-talk translation of just happened a second ago:

Moderator: We doubt your patriotism but we notice you wore a flag lapel yesterday. Are you really a patriot?
Obama: Why the hell do you think I'm running for president? Quit this petty crap!
Moderator: Okay, okay. You sat near a man who bombed buildings when you were 8 years old. What do you have to say for yourself?!"
Obama: WTF! I was 8!

Time magazine was talking about Obama's problem with not looking patriotic enough.
link

Patriotism is, sadly, a crucial challenge for Obama now. His aides believe that the Wright controversy was more about anti-Americanism than it was about race. Michelle Obama's unfortunate comment that the success of the campaign had made her proud of America "for the first time" in her adult life and the Senator's own decision to stow his American-flag lapel pin ? plus his Islamic-sounding name ? have fed a scurrilous undercurrent of doubt about whether he is "American" enough.

The thing with Bill Ayers is a problem as well. The fact that he was 8 when the guy was setting off bombs isn't the problem. The problem is that Obama was hanging out with this guy and appearing on discussion panels with him just a few years ago.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: dennilfloss

Originally posted by: Hafen
Holy shit, Hillary just said she would pull out troops NO MATTER WHAT the generals said... For a woman prone to equivocation, there was none there on this

Good. Because at this point, pulling out is not a military decision but a political one.

that's what Hillary said to Bill > >

:laugh:. Good one.

 

[sportage]

Didn?t see the debate, but going by these comments, I fear more and more no matter who gets in, nothing will really change. Seems to be no real heart felt commitment to real understanding or change by any of these three. Just sound bites i.e. what we want to hear.
After whom so ever is elected, they will spend the next 4 years trying to explain why they could not do what they said they would do. In other words, same-o same-o.
Maybe its true, the two party system and congress as is, is hopelessly broken and will never function "for the people".

 

[lupi]

I was surprised to see how much they went after BHO on several of the sidebar events he doesn't normally get pinned down to talk about.

Also interesting to see them both talk about taxxes in light of how lowering rates over the last 30 years has actually increased income.

They both sucked tit on the 2nd ammendment/DC case discussion.

All in all I'd say Hillary probably did a bit better but itwon't have much impact on the primary but does show many of the openings that repub friendly groups will be able to exploit in a fall ad campaign.

 

[Lemon law]

I only somewhat agree with Lupi when he concludes--All in all I'd say Hillary probably did a bit better but itwon't have much impact on the primary but does show many of the openings that repub friendly groups will be able to exploit in a fall ad campaign.

Sadly for the democrats, the debates still focus on Obama and Hillary beating each other up. And even if Hillary is slightly behind in the delegate counts, I don't think anyone can rationally argue that she should give up. And I think Howard Dean is correct in setting a July 1 deadline to get it settled.

But I do issue a rather stern warning to the GOP who seems to lulling itself into a false sense of security. Once the dems settle on a nominee, democratic attacks will FOCUS ON THE REAL ISSUES and all democratic guns will instantly swivel and start shooting at McCain. And the GOP is only fooling itself if it thinks it will get much out of focusing on little side wedge issues like Rev Wright or Hillary distorted in Bosnia. Those will only amount to drowning men clutching at straws.

And once those democratic guns swivel and start shooting, their most telling ammunition will be powered by the record of GWB. Which is my other stern warning to the GOP which has the luxury of a nominee apparent. Namely you have your nominee, now rally around him. The GOP had better show McCain can end the GOP gridlock before the election which will require McCain to really stand up against GWB, or the GOP will be certain losers come November.

McCain has straddled that fence since the election of 2000. Now is the time for the straight talk express to start taking action because mere promises will not do it. And now is the time for the GOP to stand up and be counted, rally around McCain or keep supporting GWB until November. The GOP can do one or the other but not both. The latter course is a sure loser.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
On the plus side, neither went really negative on the other. I am am fully confident that come the general election, it will be McCain as the one without any real answers.

I think you may be right. I see so far his answers to questions just be glib comments and he may end up getting ripped a new one by Obama who knows that Americans are mostly tired of McCain-type politics (i.e. contemporary republican).

 

[jonks]

Looks like Gibson and Georgie are being raked over the coals this morning by almost everyone for their choice of questions yesterday. Frankly that was some seriously shitty moderating and questioning.

 

[Starbuck1975]

And once those democratic guns swivel and start shooting, their most telling ammunition will be powered by the record of GWB.

They weren't able to hit the GWB target when he was running for office, and they would be stupid to aim for GWB now that McCain is running for office.

 

[ElFenix]

the only part i saw was where hillary was claiming that she should be nominated because she's been through the wars with republicans for a decade and a half and so can stand up to their attacks in the fall.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: dbk
Some lady questioned Obama's patriotism because he doesn't wear a flag pin.

Wow. Did they get these debate questions from chain e-mail forwards?

 

[ProfJohn]

Head over to realclearpolitics.com where you can read half a dozen different takes on the debate.

Most of them feel that Hillary won over Obama.
The real winner though was most likely McCain.

Another interesting take is the idea that the media love affair with Obama is coming to an end with the press finally asking him the hard questions they have been avoiding for the past few months.

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Head over to realclearpolitics.com where you can read half a dozen different takes on the debate.

Most of them feel that Hillary won over Obama.
The real winner though was most likely McCain.

Another interesting take is the idea that the media love affair with Obama is coming to an end with the press finally asking him the hard questions they have been avoiding for the past few months.

absolutely. The media love affair with Obama is decreasing as people are realizing he is just another politician who panders for votes. It was perfectly acceptable when Clinton was ganged up on at previous debates but don't anybody dare ask Obama tough questions about his judgment and character.

 

[Socio]

It must have been horrible;
Check out the comments at ABC almost sixteen thousand comments about the debate so far and most berating it.

Dems Last Chance to Settle Scores Before Pennsylvania Primary

Glen Beck is on vacation so I tuned in to Rush Limbaugh this morning and commenting on the debate he was urging the super delegates to find a third candidate, so yea that bad.

 

[ayabe]

This is by the far the best review of the debate I've seen so far:

Text

"After the beating we've taken regardless of party or ideology, we ought to be demanding -- as a nation -- that the Bush Republicans shut up and sit down for a while (in a figurative sense of course). In other words, the party that spent this decade masturbating to videotape of George W. Bush clearing brush while America was raped and beaten into transcontinental buffet of shitkebobs, doesn't get to dictate the rules this time. No sir. And shame on Stephanopoulos and Gibson for allowing it.

Last night exemplified the pathetic truth that the very serious traditional media would otherwise be lost and confused without its Mad Libs script for presidential elections. It's a script that's been systematically and deliberatively co-written by Rove-style operatives in conjunction with corporations for the purposes of ratings, ad revenue and ever-narrowing control over the government. The script serves, first and foremost, to help the Republicans, and it takes the painful burden of "original thought" and "insight" off the shoulders of pundits such as the two hack/sock puppets who hosted last night's debate. Win, win.

What we have seen recently -- and especially last night -- has been nothing less than the very serious traditional media attempting to sculpt and shoe-horn the narrative based on what has been previously scripted by their authoritarian, oligarchic bosses. That is... The Democratic nominee has to be elitist and effete. The Republican has to be a cowboy (a maverick IS a cowboy, by the way). Democratic gaffes help the Republicans. Republican gaffes are silly "senior moments" or "plain-spoken" talk. Diplomacy is weak. Endless war is American. And on and on and on."


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I agree completely, worst debate I've ever seen, I had to go in the other room and watch Idol with my GF to avoid launching my remote through my new TV.

 

[Moonbeam]

I got up this morning and stroked and preened my feathers and saw that everything came out just perfect for my candidate. I'm so proud of my vision and insight and how I can see exactly what I want to be there. I am a great magician and what I see is what you know deep down, has to be true.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Head over to realclearpolitics.com where you can read half a dozen different takes on the debate.

Most of them feel that Hillary won over Obama.
The real winner though was most likely McCain.

Another interesting take is the idea that the media love affair with Obama is coming to an end with the press finally asking him the hard questions they have been avoiding for the past few months.

absolutely. The media love affair with Obama is decreasing as people are realizing he is just another politician who panders for votes. It was perfectly acceptable when Clinton was ganged up on at previous debates but don't anybody dare ask Obama tough questions about his judgment and character.

You cant use last nights debate as a measuring stick for the publics sentiment about Obama. Charlie and George and ABC behaved so badly last night that the debate turned into an abomination. Too many commercials, I think at one point they had a shot of Chelsea sitting in the audience, no shot of any Obama supporters...it was a disaster of feigned impartiality.

If Obama is losing his appeal to the public last night was no such display. If anything, it was more like an Obama version of "Catch me if you can" between him and the media..and we dont need to see that crap.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: ayabe
< snip >

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I agree completely, worst debate I've ever seen, I had to go in the other room and watch Idol with my GF to avoid launching my remote through my new TV.

to be fair, if the pundits actually asked real questions and challenged the candidates on their positions, you'd quickly see the candidates refuse to debate on that pundit's network. the candidates want crappy questions rather than actual questions, and so that is what the networks serve up. the candidates don't want to address each other in a real debate, and so they don't.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Obama made similar remarks regarding tackling climate change. He refused to acknowledge that maybe US citizens need to do something themselves and basically told the people, "don't worry about it, keep driving, keep polluting and I'll pump billions into a "Manhattan-style" project to clean up after you."

That comment, to me, felt particularly like a vote-grab. I believe it is irresponsible to take any burden off of people and retain the faith that we can solve the problem with some as-yet undiscovered technology.

MMGW is a dead-issue in America this election cycle. Blame Gore's sensationalism of the issue, blame the economy, or blame the cold winter, but that's how it is.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: ayabe
< snip >

******************************************

I agree completely, worst debate I've ever seen, I had to go in the other room and watch Idol with my GF to avoid launching my remote through my new TV.

to be fair, if the pundits actually asked real questions and challenged the candidates on their positions, you'd quickly see the candidates refuse to debate on that pundit's network. the candidates want crappy questions rather than actual questions, and so that is what the networks serve up. the candidates don't want to address each other in a real debate, and so they don't.

Maybe in earlier debates I would be more in agreement with this.

But, chances are this will be the last debate between Obama and Clinton and thus their last chance to state very clearly the differences between them.

I don't think either Clinton or Obama are very interested in talking about their gaffe's or to try to outdo each other on who can dodge the "gotcha's" with more agility. More importantly however, is that the voters don't care and were all done a great disservice by ABC lastnight.

 

[Farang]

Stephanopoulos could not step outside his political bubble and moderate a debate for voters, instead he treated it as though he had both candidates on This Week.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Looks like Gibson and Georgie are being raked over the coals this morning by almost everyone for their choice of questions yesterday. Frankly that was some seriously shitty moderating and questioning.

After hussein getting the flower and mint turn in service with every other one, I think he was due.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: Socio
Glen Beck is on vacation so I tuned in to Rush Limbaugh this morning and commenting on the debate he was urging the super delegates to find a third candidate, so yea that bad.

A great choice of impartial comment on the Democratic candidates.

 

[shrumpage]

wow. I wish i could have caught his last night. Judging from various sites, people are pretty ticked off at the moderation.

I did read this piece on Stephanopoulos:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/...opriate_questions.html

After skimming the hoffingtonpost, digg and other sites - people's reaction is just bizarre. Things like blaming the Republicans for the debate and it was karl rove like plot against the dems.