Dearborn school district now offering students 100% Halal menu

[Fanatical Meat]

Again, for Sikhs its a religious issue, and much the same as for Muslims, but the other way round.

I also wonder about the kind of (mostly African-origin) Christians I've encountered who get very peturbed about engaging in anything that seems to them unChristian, whether it's Yoga or Horoscopes or Harry Potter. I wonder if those guys would have issues with their children being fed Halal food. And if they did, would it be unreasonable to accommodate them? Would it be OK to accommodate them but not white Christian Evangelicals who took the same stance?

Ultimately, I think if something that seems meaningless to an atheist like me can be so important to a Muslim, I think one has to allow that it can also be important in reverse. So it's quite right that non-Halal alternatives should be offered for any minority that feels strongly about _not_ consuming Halal. I don't think it's fair to insist that some (seemingly irrational) beliefs have to be catered to while others don't.

I don't agree in any way with the 'concern' from the OP (about an area where it doesn't sound as if _anyone_ has actually complained about Halal in the first place, so I don't get what the OP is bothered about, and in any case it sounds as if alternatives _are_ offered), but I do think _in general principle_ the state should try and accommodate different beliefs if at all practical, even if it's minorities-within-minorities.

This sort of goes down the rabbit hole so let’s agree to keep it vague. To my understanding halal isn’t strictly followed my most Muslims, sort of like the no meat on Friday thing for Catholics or kosher thing for Jews or Christians following Leviticus no dairy and meat together. Likely the vast majority of students whom are classified as needing halal food don’t follow the guidelines too strictly.
However this doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be a local decision. Per a previous poster non halal food can be requested. I’m guessing the decision was made that it is just easier to make all foods halal approved in this specific school and treat all other requests as exceptions.

 

[pmv]

This sort of goes down the rabbit hole so let’s agree to keep it vague. To my understanding halal isn’t strictly followed my most Muslims, sort of like the no meat on Friday thing for Catholics or kosher thing for Jews or Christians following Leviticus no dairy and meat together. Likely the vast majority of students whom are classified as needing halal food don’t follow the guidelines too strictly.

I've known plenty of Muslims who were were strict about Halal, and of course alcohol. That would actually be a clear majority of Muslims I've known, I think (possibly a selection bias). Pretty much all the fast-food shops and butchers where I used to live are Halal.

But I've also known a few guys from Muslim backgrounds for whom pretty much the _only_ 'Islamic' practice they followed was 'not eating pork'. Probably because that was an easy rule to remember and not too demanding to stick to.

 

[Starbuck1975]

They should accommodate students who have a religious objection to eating Halal.

I believe for athiests, the preferred solution is to remove the religious accomodation so as to accomodate them.

 

[Vic]

And if its a lawsuit on seperation of church and state?

I am glad to see liberals suddenly so accomodating towards magical sky fairies.

Must you be so dishonest? Liberals are being accommodating to religious freedom by allowing local groups to make their own decisions with regards to reasonable accommodation. You OTOH are arguing over something that does not affect you in the slightest, and are disingenuously blaming liberals for law that was actually crafted by conservative Christian groups.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I've known plenty of Muslims who were were strict about Halal, and of course alcohol. That would actually be a clear majority of Muslims I've known, I think (possibly a selection bias). Pretty much all the fast-food shops and butchers where I used to live are Halal.

But I've also known a few guys from Muslim backgrounds for whom pretty much the _only_ 'Islamic' practice they followed was 'not eating pork'. Probably because that was an easy rule to remember and not too demanding to stick to.

Better description regarding the few Muslim guys I’ve worked with. That was my point, not many people follow this stuff to the letter because it just doesn’t make sense in a modern world. How on earth can you tell if the person who prepares the food follows the Old Testament.
You can establish that they are following the standards for cleanliness and assume they aren’t serving you food that was slaughtered in a pig pen.

 

[cirrrocco]

again, a totally non-bigoted message here, with zero subliminal context.

How is that bigoted?? It's what I saw. The bigotry is what's happening in those places. Keep diverting the topic.

 

[cirrrocco]

And for those who wanna do the "huh? whuh? wut's the halawls?"

Knowledge Repository ::Home

www.fao.org

2 minutes on google, no no...spend days in a thread.

and for good measure, from the dearborn schools website....all their halal cert's:

https://dearbornschools.org/download/734/food-services/224019/dearborn-halal-certifications-9-13.pdf

FYI, I would still not be eating those hot dogs due to food allergies.

Cheewiz,
Thanks for posting the certificates . From the Dearborn certificate , it says the slaughtering was specifically done by only a Muslim.

Since my original post, I have been decrying that job opportunities are lost for non Muslims. Then a whole lot of diversion started where they said Christians can be working there as well, which has been refuted here in the document shown below

How is this Legal where govt money is used specifically for a jobs program for only one religious group. I was then called a nazi and a racist indirectly [it's hilarious people dont know my background and where I am from and yet call me a Nazi, racist, stormfront and trump supporter. ]

I dont normally [actually more than 90% ] agree with starbucks on other issues, but I am surprised he is the only one who is able to understand the nuance where govt fund is being used to provide employement for one religious group.

if this happened to Christians or Atheists or Mormons, there would be outrage.

I am ok with the school providing Halal meat for free to students, provided they do not get govt money. It's as simple as that

 

[Starbuck1975]

Sucks I know but what’s the solution more wars in the Middle East
Life isn’t fair

I did see previews from that episode on Hulu while looking for Mr Garrison’s IT for the offtopic personal transport thread

Pretty sad that war is the only solution to protect exercising free speech.

 

[fskimospy]

And if its a lawsuit on seperation of church and state?

You're saying purchasing halal meat is a government establishment or endorsement of religion? This means you believe that by the school purchasing this meat they are either mandating participation in the Islamic faith or they are holding it up as preferred to other faiths or no faith.

That's an extraordinary claim, it's frankly baffling. Are kids eating their meat loaf suddenly expected to start praising Allah?

I am glad to see liberals suddenly so accomodating towards magical sky fairies.

Liberals have always been accommodating to religion, after all tons of liberals are religious. They are not very kind to attempts by a religion to dominate other or force other religions into subservient roles as conservatives often like to do but that has nothing to do with hostility to religion, if anything it's out of respect for each person's right to practice their own free of government coercion.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Pretty sad that war is the only solution to protect exercising free speech.

agreed

 

[Starbuck1975]

Must you be so dishonest? Liberals are being accommodating to religious freedom by allowing local groups to make their own decisions with regards to reasonable accommodation. You OTOH are arguing over something that does not affect you in the slightest, and are disingenuously blaming liberals for law that was actually crafted by conservative Christian groups.

Do you disagree with what I wrote in post 419. If so, why?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Cheewiz,
Thanks for posting the certificates . From the Dearborn certificate , it says the slaughtering was specifically done by only a Muslim.

Since my original post, I have been decrying that job opportunities are lost for non Muslims. Then a whole lot of diversion started where they said Christians can be working there as well, which has been refuted here in the document shown below

How is this Legal where govt money is used specifically for a jobs program for only one religious group. I was then called a nazi and a racist indirectly [it's hilarious people dont know my background and where I am from and yet call me a Nazi, racist, stormfront and trump supporter. ]

I dont normally [actually more than 90% ] agree with starbucks on other issues, but I am surprised he is the only one who is able to understand the nuance where govt fund is being used to provide employement for one religious group.

if this happened to Christians or Atheists or Mormons, there would be outrage.

I am ok with the school providing Halal meat for free to students, provided they do not get govt money. It's as simple as that

View attachment 11758

That's a single vendor, lol. Other than Jewish people, I dont know of any other dietary restrictions like this that would affect a large section of the population.

 

[pmv]

Cheewiz,
Thanks for posting the certificates . From the Dearborn certificate , it says the slaughtering was specifically done by only a Muslim.

Since my original post, I have been decrying that job opportunities are lost for non Muslims. Then a whole lot of diversion started where they said Christians can be working there as well, which has been refuted here in the document shown below

How is this Legal where govt money is used specifically for a jobs program for only one religious group. I was then called a nazi and a racist indirectly [it's hilarious people dont know my background and where I am from and yet call me a Nazi, racist, stormfront and trump supporter. ]

Where did anyone say you were a Nazi?

Though, as I said, the fact you used the (ludicrous) term 'Londonistan' does in fact put you on the same team as the EDL and Mel Phillips and other parts of the semi-hard-right. Perhaps you might want to retract some of that? Not to mention your attempt to reiterate the propaganda about 'no go zones'. If you don't want people to see you as a Trumpian, maybe stop repeating Trumpian propaganda about Europe?

 

[Starbuck1975]

You're saying purchasing halal meat is a government establishment or endorsement of religion? This means you believe that by the school purchasing this meat they are either mandating participation in the Islamic faith or they are holding it up as preferred to other faiths or no faith.

If they solely procure halal meat where halal is the differentiating criteria, that is easily challenged in court.

Liberals have always been accommodating to religion, after all tons of liberals are religious. They are not very kind to attempts by a religion to dominate other or force other religions into subservient roles as conservatives often like to do but that has nothing to do with hostility to religion, if anything it's out of respect for each person's right to practice their own free of government coercion.

Exclusive procurement based on religious preference or accommodation is a form of coercion.

 

[fskimospy]

If they solely procure halal meat where halal is the differentiating criteria, that is easily challenged in court.

Anything is easily challenged in court. They are also as easily laughed out. The interests of the school district here are obvious to anyone with common sense - to feed their kids.

Remember, your alternative is to pretend those restrictions don’t exist and to light a bunch of cash on fire for no reason other than virtue signaling. I know if any board member tried that with my money they would be out on their ass for incompetence.

Exclusive procurement based on religious preference or accommodation is a form of coercion.

Explain in as detailed a way as possible.

 

[cirrrocco]

That's a single vendor, lol. Other than Jewish people, I dont know of any other dietary restrictions like this that would affect a large section of the population.

But that single vendor supplies to the county right? I am confused. what's your contention and what are you trying to say. That other 100% halal vendors employ atheists and non people of book.

You posted a link from the school document repository and I am quoting that only Muslims are employed by the slaughter house. why are so many people trying to so hard to not talk about this reservation for muslims funded by the govt?

 

[ch33zw1z]

But that single vendor supplies to the county right? I am confused. what's your contention and what are you trying to say. That other 100% halal vendors employ atheists and non people of book.

You posted a link from the school document repository and I am quoting that only Muslims are employed by the slaughter house. why are so many people trying to so hard to not talk about this reservation for muslims funded by the govt?

There's quite a few sources of the products they want. You posted one of the certs that supports your newfound stance.

The district just want their kids to eat, this is what a vast majority of their population eats

Like I told Starbuck, if my towns district did this, I would be outraged as well, as there aren't any practicing Muslims I know of, so it would just be an arbitrary thing to do.

 

[fskimospy]

But that single vendor supplies to the county right? I am confused. what's your contention and what are you trying to say. That other 100% halal vendors employ atheists and non people of book.

You posted a link from the school document repository and I am quoting that only Muslims are employed by the slaughter house. why are so many people trying to so hard to not talk about this reservation for muslims funded by the govt?

Because it’s not relevant. Presumably the government purchasing kosher meals for the military is a reservation for Jews funded by the government as well. It’s perfectly legal though because the purpose of the policy is to feed troops, not employ Jews.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

But that single vendor supplies to the county right? I am confused. what's your contention and what are you trying to say. That other 100% halal vendors employ atheists and non people of book.

You posted a link from the school document repository and I am quoting that only Muslims are employed by the slaughter house. why are so many people trying to so hard to not talk about this reservation for muslims funded by the govt?

Without having any knowledge on the subject. I would assume most school districts chose large food vendors that are close to them, it is entirely possible this school negotiated a halal compliant meal plan as part of their vendor selection process. Per the previous poster who works in what he called a protein plant. They have different workers for different runs of product. Appears halal food can be produced by normal means.

 

[IronWing]

But that single vendor supplies to the county right? I am confused. what's your contention and what are you trying to say. That other 100% halal vendors employ atheists and non people of book.

You posted a link from the school document repository and I am quoting that only Muslims are employed by the slaughter house. why are so many people trying to so hard to not talk about this reservation for muslims funded by the govt?

The certificate doesn't say that only Muslims are employed by the slaughterhouse. The certificate says that a Muslim must perform the slaughter of animals destined to be certified halal meat. It's like the Oscar Meyer plant I mentioned previously. The vast majority of workers were not Jewish but the animals destined for kosher meats were slaughtered by Jewish butchers.

Again, you are claiming the school district's action is depriving non-Muslim butchers of a market. This is true only to the extent that non-Muslim students choose to eat halal meat and to the extent that non-Muslim butchers are excluded from halal meat preparation. So far, the evidence provided only blocks non-Muslims from performing the actual slaughter and is silent on post slaughter meat processing.

 

[cirrrocco]

Where did anyone say you were a Nazi?

Though, as I said, the fact you used the (ludicrous) term 'Londonistan' does in fact put you on the same team as the EDL and Mel Phillips and other parts of the semi-hard-right. Perhaps you might want to retract some of that? Not to mention your attempt to reiterate the propaganda about 'no go zones'. If you don't want people to see you as a Trumpian, maybe stop repeating Trumpian propaganda about Europe?

Somewhere in the beginning someone said this is how Nazism spread or some nonsense like that. Also I am from stormfront etc. etc. Those smug remarks of superiority was dripping from those posts . Also folks keep saying I am anti islam anti muslim.

I am anti sharia and anti giving govt funds to a school district that will exclude all non muslim butchers. if I was running a meat shop, why the fuck can I not supply to the school.

The certificates that cheewiz lists all the contracts by the Dearborn school district

https://dearbornschools.org/download/734/food-services/224019/dearborn-halal-certifications-9-13.pdf

vendor 1:



vendor 2



Vendor 3 : Cimple Meants




What does ISWA halal certification say



There are a few more certificates, but like i said this is a 100% jobs program for just one group.

 

[cirrrocco]

The certificate doesn't say that only Muslims are employed by the slaughterhouse. The certificate says that a Muslim must perform the slaughter of animals destined to be certified halal meat. It's like the Oscar Meyer plant I mentioned previously. The vast majority of workers were not Jewish but the animals destined for kosher meats were slaughtered by Jewish butchers.

Again, you are claiming the school district's action is depriving non-Muslim butchers of a market. This is true only to the extent that non-Muslim students choose to eat halal meat and to the extent that non-Muslim butchers are excluded from halal meat preparation. So far, the evidence provided only blocks non-Muslims from performing the actual slaughter and is silent on post slaughter meat processing.

IW,

I agree . I have been pretty particular about the fact that only slaughtering jobs are reserved for people of one faith. I am sure other operations in the plant are prolly done by other faith. . I don't have any disagreement with anyone regarding that and I have been pretty clear and vocal about the actual butchering part of the job.

 

[Vic]

Do you disagree with what I wrote in post 419. If so, why?

I do, because it's a false equivalency. You're ignoring the fact that halal meat is no way objectionable to almost all non-Muslims, and those who do find it objectionable, and are actually affected, can request and should receive their own accommodation.
Also, there is no requirement that a halal meat supplier actually be owned, operated, or even employ Muslims. Which in that regard, actually makes it less restrictive than kosher, which does require the involvement of at least 1 rabbi.

 

[IronWing]

IW,

I agree . I have been pretty particular about the fact that only slaughtering jobs are reserved for people of one faith. I am sure other operations in the plant are prolly done by other faith. . I don't have any disagreement with anyone regarding that and I have been pretty clear and vocal about the actual butchering part of the job.

Okay, from this point of agreement…

Per the school's accommodation policy, non-Muslim students can opt out of eating halal meat if they so choose. The school will accommodate this desire. Therefore, the loss of market to non-Muslim butchers is not based on government action but on the choices made by the students themselves (or, more likely, the students' parents). This moves the case for discrimination out of the realm of disparate treatment (actions that, by design, unlawfully discriminate). To show unlawful discrimination, one would have to find disparate outcome where an apparently neutral policy produces unlawful discrimination. Finding disparate outcome would require an investigation into the actual employment impacts on non-Muslim butchers and can't be based on supposition.

 

[senseamp]

I believe for athiests, the preferred solution is to remove the religious accomodation so as to accomodate them.

Atheists don't care about Halal or not.