Day 1 of Trump's Influence

[Blackjack200]

Their wages and their employment? I think if those guys were happy with their situation they would have stuck to the same democratic fold that has kept them in their forgotten state of misery. Sure, wages have gone up for most of this country and unemployment is solid on average, but this doesn't mean it has worked for everyone.

Why should they feel all peachy because others are benefiting off their misery? I think you should try and go to those communities yourself and convince them that their misery is necessary for the benefit of everyone else. I'm sure this argument will resonate. At the very least, that would be more attention than Hillary gave them during this campaign.

Can you support your contention that trump voters are worse off than average? Because I heard the opposite. In any case, Clinton's platform offered far more to the working class in economic terms. trump offered hatred. That's what they wanted.

 

[zinfamous]

Can you support your contention that trump voters are worse off than average? Because I heard the opposite. In any case, Clinton's platform offered far more to the working class in economic terms. trump offered hatred. That's what they wanted.

You may have missed that I am talking about a specific set of Trump voters. Not "trump voters." I am talking about the very specific voters that have been 100% Dem since at least 1980 and earlier, loyal union workers that have watched their jobs dissolve and move away (while others benefited so, you know--"everyone" is better off!...on average), Lack of better education and advanced jobs trickling into their communities to replace their forever-gone jobs (the new democrat, AKA Clinton-style "upward mobility" strategy fail to improve their lives), and a lot of Hope that they really liked from Obama never seem to materialize, for them.

Dems have tried to put in policies to help these people, sometimes it's worked, other times it hasn't. Obama has supported tons of programs, but either they haven't improved their lives or the republicans blocked his efforts to extend a hand. Either way, the means don't really matter because the end result is that their lives have actually been pretty miserable for decades. The only reward they have gotten for their quiet loyalty all these years is crumbling infrastructure, unemployment, lack of food, healthcare, and children that are addicted to drugs because it's all they really have. Moving to the city and "making yourself better" was never a viable option.

Hillary and others can cry all they want about how these people "Just need to listen more!" to what they're saying about how to improve their lives, but I think they were sick of the message.

Again, this is a specific section of voters whose misery and needs in this election simply can not be explained by racism and baseless ignorance. These are the classic Democratic base. You couldn't really get more loyal than these people. They just got sick and fed-up of the bullshit

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/hillary-clinton-and-the-populist-revolt

http://trumplandmovie.com/

Aren't you sick of sitting in your relatively comfortable, middle, upper-middle class educated life and neighborhood, comfy job, with access to everything you need, telling all these people out there that life really is swell so it should be swell if you just take advantage of all these programs that, I am told so assume to be true, are great and would be great for you? I know I am. That was me up until about 2 days ago. I feel like I "get it" now. I don't see any racial or gender/sexuality grievances expressed in these people, other than the annoyance and anger that they feel when the assumption about their opinions seems to fall on those types of complaints.

The truth is that these solutions haven't worked for them and they aren't about to work anytime soon. No one (well, literate) is denying that unemployment is actually much better in this country, salaries are getting better, GDP has been amazing all things considered, but there are always costs embedded in those numbers. These people are the costs, and they chose to kick this country's ass by electing an incompetent fascist asshole for no other reason than to remind this country that they are sill here suffering and if, at the very least, this piece of shit orange yelling man can shake things up (like he told them he would--honestly not that different than Obama's message of Hope...if you ignore that one had actual policy and the other just had bile) a bit and restore equanimity across socioeconomic classes and not just care about race and gender issues. All I can do is admire them for that. Obviously I'm rather terrified of a Trump presidency for many, many reasons, but this is the new reality.

I went through my 5 phases within one sleepless night and the following day. I am feeling a bit better about things despite very real concerns. I'm less angry, at least, which helps me to think.

A good portion of the democratic party simply hasn't gone out to these places and worked with these people in a long time. Obama was pretty much that guy--if you recall, he was hated by the established Chicago democratic machine when running for senate. The Daley/Jackson regime would not endorse him, and only begrudgingly supported him when he finally beat Hillary in the primaries. He came through the democratic party similar to how Trump obliterated the republicans. Yes, style, form, substance--all of that was very different, far more tolerable, but the truth is that these people as well as many other voters swung from Obama to Trump because they saw these two candidates as upsetting the apple cart of politics as usual. Obama loathed the Silicon Valley elites, donors, talking with these type of people. He absolutely hated that part of raising money and gladhanding, until Bill C started grooming him and educating him on "how things need to be done"

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/10/lets-be-friends

The Clinton's hated Obama because he wasn't playing "by their rules." I still think Obama has been a pretty awesome president and the way things are looking now, certainly the greatest of my lifetime, but you have to admit that his pivot towards constant Silicon Valley trips for fundraising and shmoozing with other interests became rather distasteful. --not that this is unusual from any president or politician, and I don't really think it is who Obama is--but the perception remains that he is certainly no longer the upstart, small-donor based populist that propelled his wave from 2004 to 2008.

A lot of what I think is happening with this voter base is that they are sick of the same politics over and over--not so much that it's scandal-ridden, or mean or racist, but as one new person promises a bridge to the next century or hope and change, only to watch them gravitate towards the Elite and WS while ignoring the promises they gave them--or watching those solutions fail--they just move on to the next person looking to make them Great Again until, maybe, that person moves on to being, well, pretty much who everyone (including those same voters) knew he always was.

Dems need answers. They aren't going away or dying off like everyone knew the republicans would after 2012 (lol--remember that?), but they need to get back to their roots and fight for the working class again, offering them real working class solutions and not complicated grand economic schemes that continue to figure these people into the "unfortunate losers" part of the balance sheet.

 

[Brainonska511]

Bernie supporters did. There is utterly NO doubt about that. The DNC collusion was just too much for some to get over.

I don't think it was so much DNC collusion as it was that Bernie's message didn't resonate with the other parts of the larger part of the Democratic coalition.

This (pre-election) article touched on it a bit: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/hillary-clinton-and-the-populist-revolt

edit: looks like zinfamous beat me to it with the link to the article.

 

[zinfamous]

Bernie supporters did. There is utterly NO doubt about that. The DNC collusion was just too much for some to get over.

well, those voters are by and large pretty much Bernie supporters, I agree.

I won't blame this on "Bernie voters," but there is no mistaking that Bernie crushed Hillary in these very same states in the primaries, where she was expected to win, handily.

Remember the night of the MI primaries? "Oh gee--hey, Bernie won by 30 points? what's going on here guys? That's interesting, no? Well, doesn't matter because he's losing badly so no one should really care."
Pretty sure he won PA and WI, too. Think about it--he would have crushed the west coast, likely those states, the Northeast (doubt NH would have been as contested). VA might have been close, but I think the same pockets of Hilary voters would have won it for Bernie. No need for FL, NC, Ohio or all the other states where "evil socialist!" would have worked.

He basically told those people exactly what Trump came in later and told them. Hillary got greedy and assumed those states were hers, focusing on what she didn't need just to make a statement. Hindsight and all that, and a lot of the polling was clearly broken (bad data in = bad data out, but pretty much everyone was a victim here. 538 was actually quite accurate, and Silver took a lot of shit for it throughout. The only problem with his model this year was that there wasn't enough uncertainty or enough adjusting for bad data).

And I can't blame those people going from Bernie to Trump. How can anyone? Bernie was there talking to them constantly, telling them they had his ear and he knew what their problems were. He was goddamn sick of the very same issues and the very same entities that were working to crush these people. Trump swooped in later and repeated the same (dishonest though he may have been); both of those guys knew what they were doing.

Say I'm some barely-employed 56 year old former steal worker living in a trailer with a leaking roof, busted water heater, depend on Piggly Wiggly for my food, 23 year old unemployed, high school dropout kid is addicted to meth and so on and so on, living in the only place I have ever known--I give a few people a chance to create jobs in my town, they never do after telling me to wait for the 1% to create those opportunities....what am I supposed to do when someone else comes along, 8 years later, tells me the same thing? Do I support her, or the guy that tells me he's going to threaten the only major employer in the region with high tariffs if they shut down, move over seas, and try to sell their cars or products back to me?

Gee, tough decision.

 

[LegendKiller]

Yeah right, numbnuts. Just like that "criminal Hilary!" in whose case, failure to prove guilt is only PROOF that everyone around her is even more guilty. Amiright?

You are so transparently useless.

She's guilty cause I just know it!

But there we have a plethora of evidence. Here, we have nothing. No video, just some SJWs trigglypuff rant.

 

[Blackjack200]

You may have missed that I am talking about a specific set of Trump voters. Not "trump voters." I am talking about the very specific voters that have been 100% Dem since at least 1980 and earlier, loyal union workers that have watched their jobs dissolve and move away (while others benefited so, you know--"everyone" is better off!...on average), Lack of better education and advanced jobs trickling into their communities to replace their forever-gone jobs (the new democrat, AKA Clinton-style "upward mobility" strategy fail to improve their lives), and a lot of Hope that they really liked from Obama never seem to materialize, for them.

Dems have tried to put in policies to help these people, sometimes it's worked, other times it hasn't. Obama has supported tons of programs, but either they haven't improved their lives or the republicans blocked his efforts to extend a hand. Either way, the means don't really matter because the end result is that their lives have actually been pretty miserable for decades. The only reward they have gotten for their quiet loyalty all these years is crumbling infrastructure, unemployment, lack of food, healthcare, and children that are addicted to drugs because it's all they really have. Moving to the city and "making yourself better" was never a viable option.

Hillary and others can cry all they want about how these people "Just need to listen more!" to what they're saying about how to improve their lives, but I think they were sick of the message.

Again, this is a specific section of voters whose misery and needs in this election simply can not be explained by racism and baseless ignorance. These are the classic Democratic base. You couldn't really get more loyal than these people. They just got sick and fed-up of the bullshit

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/hillary-clinton-and-the-populist-revolt

http://trumplandmovie.com/

Aren't you sick of sitting in your relatively comfortable, middle, upper-middle class educated life and neighborhood, comfy job, with access to everything you need, telling all these people out there that life really is swell so it should be swell if you just take advantage of all these programs that, I am told so assume to be true, are great and would be great for you? I know I am. That was me up until about 2 days ago. I feel like I "get it" now. I don't see any racial or gender/sexuality grievances expressed in these people, other than the annoyance and anger that they feel when the assumption about their opinions seems to fall on those types of complaints.

The truth is that these solutions haven't worked for them and they aren't about to work anytime soon. No one (well, literate) is denying that unemployment is actually much better in this country, salaries are getting better, GDP has been amazing all things considered, but there are always costs embedded in those numbers. These people are the costs, and they chose to kick this country's ass by electing an incompetent fascist asshole for no other reason than to remind this country that they are sill here suffering and if, at the very least, this piece of shit orange yelling man can shake things up (like he told them he would--honestly not that different than Obama's message of Hope...if you ignore that one had actual policy and the other just had bile) a bit and restore equanimity across socioeconomic classes and not just care about race and gender issues. All I can do is admire them for that. Obviously I'm rather terrified of a Trump presidency for many, many reasons, but this is the new reality.

I went through my 5 phases within one sleepless night and the following day. I am feeling a bit better about things despite very real concerns. I'm less angry, at least, which helps me to think.

A good portion of the democratic party simply hasn't gone out to these places and worked with these people in a long time. Obama was pretty much that guy--if you recall, he was hated by the established Chicago democratic machine when running for senate. The Daley/Jackson regime would not endorse him, and only begrudgingly supported him when he finally beat Hillary in the primaries. He came through the democratic party similar to how Trump obliterated the republicans. Yes, style, form, substance--all of that was very different, far more tolerable, but the truth is that these people as well as many other voters swung from Obama to Trump because they saw these two candidates as upsetting the apple cart of politics as usual. Obama loathed the Silicon Valley elites, donors, talking with these type of people. He absolutely hated that part of raising money and gladhanding, until Bill C started grooming him and educating him on "how things need to be done"

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/10/lets-be-friends

The Clinton's hated Obama because he wasn't playing "by their rules." I still think Obama has been a pretty awesome president and the way things are looking now, certainly the greatest of my lifetime, but you have to admit that his pivot towards constant Silicon Valley trips for fundraising and shmoozing with other interests became rather distasteful. --not that this is unusual from any president or politician, and I don't really think it is who Obama is--but the perception remains that he is certainly no longer the upstart, small-donor based populist that propelled his wave from 2004 to 2008.

A lot of what I think is happening with this voter base is that they are sick of the same politics over and over--not so much that it's scandal-ridden, or mean or racist, but as one new person promises a bridge to the next century or hope and change, only to watch them gravitate towards the Elite and WS while ignoring the promises they gave them--or watching those solutions fail--they just move on to the next person looking to make them Great Again until, maybe, that person moves on to being, well, pretty much who everyone (including those same voters) knew he always was.

Dems need answers. They aren't going away or dying off like everyone knew the republicans would after 2012 (lol--remember that?), but they need to get back to their roots and fight for the working class again, offering them real working class solutions and not complicated grand economic schemes that continue to figure these people into the "unfortunate losers" part of the balance sheet.

Yeah, you want to excuse a bunch of people for being racists because they were left behind (largely by Republican policies). You can have very real and legitimate grievances and still be a racist. If you voted for the man who was primarily known (in politics) for being a birther, who pledged to ban Muslims, who wants to kick out the Mexicans, you're racist.

Racist. Rural. White people. There is no other cause for trump's election.

 

[Blackjack200]

538 was actually quite accurate, and Silver took a lot of shit for it throughout. The only problem with his model this year was that there wasn't enough uncertainty or enough adjusting for bad data).

Silver wasn't accurate, his model just allowed for more uncertainty. Other than that his forecast was essentially for a comfortable Clinton win. I don't know if there's any precedent for so many respected pollsters fouling up so badly.

In a way, it's good. I'm glad I got to go all the way to November 8th thinking Clinton was going to win. I mean, if you're going to get hit by a truck one day, do you really want to know about it a year ahead of time? Or would you rather not know, and be able to enjoy that time.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Aren't you sick of sitting in your relatively comfortable, middle, upper-middle class educated life and neighborhood, comfy job, with access to everything you need, telling all these people out there that life really is swell so it should be swell if you just take advantage of all these programs that, I am told so assume to be true, are great and would be great for you? I know I am. That was me up until about 2 days ago. I feel like I "get it" now. I don't see any racial or gender/sexuality grievances expressed in these people, other than the annoyance and anger that they feel when the assumption about their opinions seems to fall on those types of complaints.

The truth is that these solutions haven't worked for them and they aren't about to work anytime soon. No one (well, literate) is denying that unemployment is actually much better in this country, salaries are getting better, GDP has been amazing all things considered, but there are always costs embedded in those numbers. These people are the costs, and they chose to kick this country's ass by electing an incompetent fascist asshole for no other reason than to remind this country that they are sill here suffering and if, at the very least, this piece of shit orange yelling man can shake things up (like he told them he would--honestly not that different than Obama's message of Hope...if you ignore that one had actual policy and the other just had bile) a bit and restore equanimity across socioeconomic classes and not just care about race and gender issues. All I can do is admire them for that. Obviously I'm rather terrified of a Trump presidency for many, many reasons, but this is the new reality.

If more people could have this sort of intellectual honesty and empathy we wouldn't be where we are today.

 

[agent00f]

Your brainwashing by CNN is astounding. Your candidate lost, loser. Now go back and read more MSM like a good little boy.

I imagine this is the sort of person perpetrating what's being described.

But that doesn't mean it did. Doesn't stop you from posting stupid shit with no backup, trying to foment more unrest.

Interesting that the model minority are now liars; looking forward to that new leg of the trump platform.

 

[kage69]

I wonder how many minorities who voted for Drumpf are already regretting it, and he's not even in office yet.

 

[agent00f]

I wonder how many minorities who voted for Drumpf are already regretting it, and he's not even in office yet.

Uncle Tom don't regret shit.

 

[kage69]

Trump was elected by rural racist whites. The end.

Sam Bee did a nice break down I thought, although I disagree on the jews part. He likes them counting his money, remember? Totally safe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1SaD-gSZO4

 

[kage69]

Uncle Tom don't regret shit.

Not yet he don't.

Juan looks sweaty though.

 

[nutxo]

Does no one remember when HC got busted calling some of her constituents " Fucking Hymies" ? I have a clear conscience. I didn't vote for either one of those racist fuckin crooks.

I'm embarrassed that my countrymen even considered these people fit to be POTUS.

 

[Double Trouble]

You may have missed that I am talking about a specific set of Trump voters. Not "trump voters." I am talking about the very specific voters that have been 100% Dem since at least 1980 and earlier, loyal union workers that have watched their jobs dissolve and move away (while others benefited so, you know--"everyone" is better off!...on average), Lack of better education and advanced jobs trickling into their communities to replace their forever-gone jobs (the new democrat, AKA Clinton-style "upward mobility" strategy fail to improve their lives), and a lot of Hope that they really liked from Obama never seem to materialize, for them.

Dems have tried to put in policies to help these people, sometimes it's worked, other times it hasn't. Obama has supported tons of programs, but either they haven't improved their lives or the republicans blocked his efforts to extend a hand. Either way, the means don't really matter because the end result is that their lives have actually been pretty miserable for decades. The only reward they have gotten for their quiet loyalty all these years is crumbling infrastructure, unemployment, lack of food, healthcare, and children that are addicted to drugs because it's all they really have. Moving to the city and "making yourself better" was never a viable option.

Hillary and others can cry all they want about how these people "Just need to listen more!" to what they're saying about how to improve their lives, but I think they were sick of the message.

Again, this is a specific section of voters whose misery and needs in this election simply can not be explained by racism and baseless ignorance. These are the classic Democratic base. You couldn't really get more loyal than these people. They just got sick and fed-up of the bullshit

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/hillary-clinton-and-the-populist-revolt

http://trumplandmovie.com/

Aren't you sick of sitting in your relatively comfortable, middle, upper-middle class educated life and neighborhood, comfy job, with access to everything you need, telling all these people out there that life really is swell so it should be swell if you just take advantage of all these programs that, I am told so assume to be true, are great and would be great for you? I know I am. That was me up until about 2 days ago. I feel like I "get it" now. I don't see any racial or gender/sexuality grievances expressed in these people, other than the annoyance and anger that they feel when the assumption about their opinions seems to fall on those types of complaints.

The truth is that these solutions haven't worked for them and they aren't about to work anytime soon. No one (well, literate) is denying that unemployment is actually much better in this country, salaries are getting better, GDP has been amazing all things considered, but there are always costs embedded in those numbers. These people are the costs, and they chose to kick this country's ass by electing an incompetent fascist asshole for no other reason than to remind this country that they are sill here suffering and if, at the very least, this piece of shit orange yelling man can shake things up (like he told them he would--honestly not that different than Obama's message of Hope...if you ignore that one had actual policy and the other just had bile) a bit and restore equanimity across socioeconomic classes and not just care about race and gender issues. All I can do is admire them for that. Obviously I'm rather terrified of a Trump presidency for many, many reasons, but this is the new reality.

I went through my 5 phases within one sleepless night and the following day. I am feeling a bit better about things despite very real concerns. I'm less angry, at least, which helps me to think.

A good portion of the democratic party simply hasn't gone out to these places and worked with these people in a long time. Obama was pretty much that guy--if you recall, he was hated by the established Chicago democratic machine when running for senate. The Daley/Jackson regime would not endorse him, and only begrudgingly supported him when he finally beat Hillary in the primaries. He came through the democratic party similar to how Trump obliterated the republicans. Yes, style, form, substance--all of that was very different, far more tolerable, but the truth is that these people as well as many other voters swung from Obama to Trump because they saw these two candidates as upsetting the apple cart of politics as usual. Obama loathed the Silicon Valley elites, donors, talking with these type of people. He absolutely hated that part of raising money and gladhanding, until Bill C started grooming him and educating him on "how things need to be done"

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/10/lets-be-friends

The Clinton's hated Obama because he wasn't playing "by their rules." I still think Obama has been a pretty awesome president and the way things are looking now, certainly the greatest of my lifetime, but you have to admit that his pivot towards constant Silicon Valley trips for fundraising and shmoozing with other interests became rather distasteful. --not that this is unusual from any president or politician, and I don't really think it is who Obama is--but the perception remains that he is certainly no longer the upstart, small-donor based populist that propelled his wave from 2004 to 2008.

A lot of what I think is happening with this voter base is that they are sick of the same politics over and over--not so much that it's scandal-ridden, or mean or racist, but as one new person promises a bridge to the next century or hope and change, only to watch them gravitate towards the Elite and WS while ignoring the promises they gave them--or watching those solutions fail--they just move on to the next person looking to make them Great Again until, maybe, that person moves on to being, well, pretty much who everyone (including those same voters) knew he always was.

Dems need answers. They aren't going away or dying off like everyone knew the republicans would after 2012 (lol--remember that?), but they need to get back to their roots and fight for the working class again, offering them real working class solutions and not complicated grand economic schemes that continue to figure these people into the "unfortunate losers" part of the balance sheet.

Nice post. I don't agree with all of it, but if we had a little more introspection and listening on everyone's part we'd be a lot better off.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I was thinking that since he's won the election he can cancel Trump TV and create a new newspaper, maybe even employee some of the editors and writers from over at the Crusader. He can even give it a catchy name, wait for it, The Trumpeter and let the printing begin. He can have a special deportations section so we can all see who ICE has ejected from our country and then maybe a sports section so we can see which minority group is being beaten this week by the police. Then he can finish it of with a nature section, yes plants and all, and what would be call it. Wait for it, Yes We Cannabis! Do you guys think that would sell?

 

[Double Trouble]

Yeah, you want to excuse a bunch of people for being racists because they were left behind (largely by Republican policies). You can have very real and legitimate grievances and still be a racist. If you voted for the man who was primarily known (in politics) for being a birther, who pledged to ban Muslims, who wants to kick out the Mexicans, you're racist.

Racist. Rural. White people. There is no other cause for trump's election.

You are a bigot, pure and simple. People like you also share a good part of the blame/credit for getting Trump elected. Your knee jerk reaction is to simply dismiss how people feel and what their opinions are and label them as racist. A lot of people are tired of having their grievances or positions dismissed off-hand and being derided as stupid or racist just because they are not on board with the democratic party platform. IMO, the democrats and the media pushed a lot of these blue collar whites into voting for Trump when they otherwise would not have.

Incidentally, there's nothing inherently racist about wanting to kick people in the country illegally out or keeping illegal immigrants out. Racism might very well be behind that sentiment for some, but it's completely illogical to simply assume that any desire to support the rule of law must be racist.

 

[Double Trouble]

Does no one remember when HC got busted calling some of her constituents " Fucking Hymies" ? I have a clear conscience. I didn't vote for either one of those racist fuckin crooks.

I'm embarrassed that my countrymen even considered these people fit to be POTUS.

Clinton and her inner circle also slandered Catholics and other groups. I'm Catholic, but I don't have a big issue with this kind of stuff. I'm sure there are times in everyone's life when they used politically incorrect terms or said offensive or insensitive things. I'm more concerned with someone's overall character than I am with revelations of something appalling said in private that was captured or leaked.

 

[agent00f]

You may have missed that I am talking about a specific set of Trump voters. Not "trump voters." I am talking about the very specific voters that have been 100% Dem since at least 1980 and earlier, loyal union workers that have watched their jobs dissolve and move away (while others benefited so, you know--"everyone" is better off!...on average), Lack of better education and advanced jobs trickling into their communities to replace their forever-gone jobs (the new democrat, AKA Clinton-style "upward mobility" strategy fail to improve their lives), and a lot of Hope that they really liked from Obama never seem to materialize, for them.

Dems have tried to put in policies to help these people, sometimes it's worked, other times it hasn't. Obama has supported tons of programs, but either they haven't improved their lives or the republicans blocked his efforts to extend a hand. Either way, the means don't really matter because the end result is that their lives have actually been pretty miserable for decades. The only reward they have gotten for their quiet loyalty all these years is crumbling infrastructure, unemployment, lack of food, healthcare, and children that are addicted to drugs because it's all they really have. Moving to the city and "making yourself better" was never a viable option.

Hillary and others can cry all they want about how these people "Just need to listen more!" to what they're saying about how to improve their lives, but I think they were sick of the message.

Again, this is a specific section of voters whose misery and needs in this election simply can not be explained by racism and baseless ignorance. These are the classic Democratic base. You couldn't really get more loyal than these people. They just got sick and fed-up of the bullshit

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/hillary-clinton-and-the-populist-revolt

http://trumplandmovie.com/

Aren't you sick of sitting in your relatively comfortable, middle, upper-middle class educated life and neighborhood, comfy job, with access to everything you need, telling all these people out there that life really is swell so it should be swell if you just take advantage of all these programs that, I am told so assume to be true, are great and would be great for you? I know I am. That was me up until about 2 days ago. I feel like I "get it" now. I don't see any racial or gender/sexuality grievances expressed in these people, other than the annoyance and anger that they feel when the assumption about their opinions seems to fall on those types of complaints.

The truth is that these solutions haven't worked for them and they aren't about to work anytime soon. No one (well, literate) is denying that unemployment is actually much better in this country, salaries are getting better, GDP has been amazing all things considered, but there are always costs embedded in those numbers. These people are the costs, and they chose to kick this country's ass by electing an incompetent fascist asshole for no other reason than to remind this country that they are sill here suffering and if, at the very least, this piece of shit orange yelling man can shake things up (like he told them he would--honestly not that different than Obama's message of Hope...if you ignore that one had actual policy and the other just had bile) a bit and restore equanimity across socioeconomic classes and not just care about race and gender issues. All I can do is admire them for that. Obviously I'm rather terrified of a Trump presidency for many, many reasons, but this is the new reality.

I went through my 5 phases within one sleepless night and the following day. I am feeling a bit better about things despite very real concerns. I'm less angry, at least, which helps me to think.

So where are these people from the rust belt applauding the democrats fighting to save the auto industry which is a sizable chunk of the good jobs they got remaining? Too busy cheering the wall getting 10ft taller?

A good portion of the democratic party simply hasn't gone out to these places and worked with these people in a long time. Obama was pretty much that guy--if you recall, he was hated by the established Chicago democratic machine when running for senate. The Daley/Jackson regime would not endorse him, and only begrudgingly supported him when he finally beat Hillary in the primaries. He came through the democratic party similar to how Trump obliterated the republicans. Yes, style, form, substance--all of that was very different, far more tolerable, but the truth is that these people as well as many other voters swung from Obama to Trump because they saw these two candidates as upsetting the apple cart of politics as usual. Obama loathed the Silicon Valley elites, donors, talking with these type of people. He absolutely hated that part of raising money and gladhanding, until Bill C started grooming him and educating him on "how things need to be done"

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/10/lets-be-friends

The Clinton's hated Obama because he wasn't playing "by their rules." I still think Obama has been a pretty awesome president and the way things are looking now, certainly the greatest of my lifetime, but you have to admit that his pivot towards constant Silicon Valley trips for fundraising and shmoozing with other interests became rather distasteful. --not that this is unusual from any president or politician, and I don't really think it is who Obama is--but the perception remains that he is certainly no longer the upstart, small-donor based populist that propelled his wave from 2004 to 2008.

A lot of what I think is happening with this voter base is that they are sick of the same politics over and over--not so much that it's scandal-ridden, or mean or racist, but as one new person promises a bridge to the next century or hope and change, only to watch them gravitate towards the Elite and WS while ignoring the promises they gave them--or watching those solutions fail--they just move on to the next person looking to make them Great Again until, maybe, that person moves on to being, well, pretty much who everyone (including those same voters) knew he always was.

Dems need answers. They aren't going away or dying off like everyone knew the republicans would after 2012 (lol--remember that?), but they need to get back to their roots and fight for the working class again, offering them real working class solutions and not complicated grand economic schemes that continue to figure these people into the "unfortunate losers" part of the balance sheet.

Obama was very much created in the mold of the modern centrist, he talks about it himself if you listen carefully. That's why he had no problems conforming to the party platform. He's also clearly quite charismatic enough to have people believe he's not an immaculate conception of the movement that the clintons started.

 

[nutxo]

Clinton and her inner circle also slandered Catholics and other groups. I'm Catholic, but I don't have a big issue with this kind of stuff. I'm sure there are times in everyone's life when they used politically incorrect terms or said offensive or insensitive things. I'm more concerned with someone's overall character than I am with revelations of something appalling said in private that was captured or leaked.

She also was quoted saying something about having a personal and professional persona. Whats better, a person who talks behind your back or says it to your face? These are not good people. I remember whitewater. A lot of people don't. That was enough to keep me from voting for her. I know she refused to release transcripts of paid speeches. I know how much wealth her family has accumulated since Bill left office.

The candidates in this race were the lowest of the low. I honestly thought the only way Clinton could win ( and I thought for sure this one was in the bag) was against a shitbag like Trump.

 

[Paratus]

Silver wasn't accurate, his model just allowed for more uncertainty. Other than that his forecast was essentially for a comfortable Clinton win. I don't know if there's any precedent for so many respected pollsters fouling up so badly.

In a way, it's good. I'm glad I got to go all the way to November 8th thinking Clinton was going to win. I mean, if you're going to get hit by a truck one day, do you really want to know about it a year ahead of time? Or would you rather not know, and be able to enjoy that time.

His comfortable win for Hillary was 2:1.

If I told you a guy playing Russian Roulette with two loaded chambers blew his head off would you be surprised?

 

[buckshot24]

His comfortable win for Hillary was 2:1.

If I told you a guy playing Russian Roulette with two loaded chambers blew his head off would you be surprised?

His probability figures simply aren't credible. No way he gets 50 states correct with the odds he put on all of them. (2012)

 

[agent00f]

His probability figures simply aren't credible. No way he gets 50 states correct with the odds he put on all of them. (2012)

Claiming such things with your understanding of mathematics is why you tend to be a punchline around here.

 

[buckshot24]

Claiming such things with your understanding of mathematics is why you tend to be a punchline around here.

I know what the odds of two things happening that have a 60% chance of happening individually. The math is simple.

 

[SP33Demon]

Yeah, you want to excuse a bunch of people for being racists because they were left behind (largely by Republican policies). You can have very real and legitimate grievances and still be a racist. If you voted for the man who was primarily known (in politics) for being a birther, who pledged to ban Muslims, who wants to kick out the Mexicans, you're racist.

Racist. Rural. White people. There is no other cause for trump's election.

You're just another dipshit injecting race into Zin's spot on discourse which is solely about economics. You have zero clue how the Rust Belt people live because you are a city fuck. Keep ignoring them, keep labeling them as racists and you'll get your ass handed to you again in 2020. Carry on.