Davis will face recall

[tm37]

Originally posted by: Michael
Here's a list of reasons why businesses are leaving (and taking revenue):

Fortune article

Michael

Good read there.

You anti recall folks are really something else.

Lets look at the facts.

When Davis took office California had a SURPLUS in it's budget. How big of a surplus? Well in davis's first year as govener he spent a few million in executive orders to try and get that surplus under a cap that mandates that the state cut sales tax. He failed to spend enough.

When davis ran for reelection he clained the defict was somewhere around 5-7 BILLIOB Dollars. he assured voters that it was relativily small and that they would work it out. Experts at the time were saying that it was much closer to 20 or 30 billion.

Shortly after the election Davis "realized" that the budget was in far worse shape than he imagined with a 20+ billion dollar deficit. That number grows every day.

Davis has blamed the budget crisis on the electricity crisis he claim was created by the power companies yet the states spemding on electricity is not mnear the dicifit and that doesn't take into consideration the INCOME the state gets from selling that power.

While Davis cannot be blamed for the intial cause of the power crunch he can and should be held responsible for his total ineptitude in dealing with the said power problem.

Shortly after Davis took office the people of san diego found the flaws of the new deregulation plan. As power bills spiked The mayor and a few local officals made a trip to Talk with the gov. They had a big question why in So. California where there is a surplus of electricity were it's people paying 2,3,4, and even five times the going rate for electricity. Mayor Golding asked the Gov to allow our power providers to BYPASS the power exchange and deal directly with the producers of the power. The gov said that the problem would pass. Fast forward a few months and now people in San DIego are really starting to feel the pinch. Stores are half lit. Some are closing. Again the elected local officials look to davis for help. This time Davis agrees and places a price Cap on SDG&E. So SDG&E is still forced to purchase from the power exchange (and it's screwy bidding system) yet nust sell it power to consumers at a fraction of its cost to get it. Davis assures the people of san diego they will now have affordable power (with a brankrupt provider but hay who's counting). Noy this system was freat for the users of electricity but not so hot for the providers (selling at a HUGE LOSS and All). SDG&E along with the local leaders realize while this makes my power bill go down it really didn't fix the problem. That problem remains with the bidding system at the power exchange.

Davis's Next move was pure genius. Rather than wait for San Diego to plummet into the abyss that is economic Chaos he dicides that it would be wrong to only make the people to suffer from this idiotic power scheme so he ensure that every california can feel the pain. The entire state will now buy power from the power exchange under it's still UNCHANGED bidding system(more on that later). Now with every provider in the state seeing red davis decides that if proce caps can work for the consumer they can work for the provider. So now all power produced AND sold in the state of califonia will be sold at a price well below market value. Power from out of state will still go through the power exchage.

Now If I make a product and I can sell it for TWICE the amount somewhere other than where I am you would be silly not to ship that bad boy out. The really fvcked part about Davis's caps is that they created a HUGE shortage because the power comapanies are going to sell to the highest bidder. And Califonia had no chance of that. Now the companies were able to sell that power for more money than than they could get in california in say utah. Now they could buy power in utah and transmitt it back to california and sell it for top dollar through the power exchange (sense a trend here). This was perfectly legal for COMPANIES but municipalies are not allowed to "piggyback"

Davis finally decides that the power exchange is not really working and decides to help ease the tension of not knowing when the state will start buying power at a reasonable rate answers our questions. it will be about twenty years. Davis signs long term contracts with providers that insure californians will pay top dollar for a while. Not to worry though this will not be passed along to the consumer as davis will have the state buy the power, sell it at a loss so everyone can have a nice small power bill ( and a larger tax bill to boot)

now if this was davis's only flaw I might not have a problem (actually I would) but he has done alot more.

Incluing closing privte run prisons even though they provided the service better and cheaper than the state run ones.

I really haven't seen grey do anything that impressed me and the energy crisis was one of the reasons I chose to leave california. I still read my paper and try to keep up on the news. My folks still live there but are looking to leave soon.

Califonia has run off any bussiness that can do bussiness somewhere else and will continue to until someone stops the bleeding. Davis has procen time and time again that he is not the guy to deal with crisis.

 

[Michael]

tm37 - I agree with your list of Davis' faults. However, these were pretty much known at the time of the last election. I hate the guy, but he was elected. I think the recall is a dumb idea.

Michael

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: Michael
tm37 - I agree with your list of Davis' faults. However, these were pretty much known at the time of the last election. I hate the guy, but he was elected. I think the recall is a dumb idea.

Michael

I honestly think that Davis won because most of the state Felt that simon was a crook because the state atty gen. took every chance he had to attack Simon in a court room. Of course they all got thrown out do to lak of evidence. TO think that a sitting gov. abused his power and LIED regarding the state of the budget is enough for me. I for one believe that the electoin was won under false pretenses

 

[manly]

Regarding the size of the shortfall, the ironic thing is when Davis released his proposed budget in January, the state GOP cried foul and said he inflated the figure only to force tax increases. They insisted the actual shortfall was about $10 billion less. Furthermore, IIRC correctly, that original budget did not rollover the deficit over a number of years through a bond issue. The non-partisan state office that analyzes the budget both agreed with his shortfall figures and stated that his proposed budget would correct the overspending. It was a bitter pill to swallow with severe cuts, but it was probably the best proposal on the table. To Davis' discredit, facing political fire from both aisles in state Congress, and an increasingly disappointed public, his May revision included the bond measure and was subsequently blasted by GOP lawmakers as a step backward.

Not only have GOP lawmakers crafted only a partial budget with punishing cuts, and insisted on borrowing money to rollover the remaining shortfall without the sales tax increase insisted by Wall Street (who would underwrite the bonds), they still have not bridged the shortfall to balance the budget. In other words, they're happy to stonewall on tax increases until the state literally goes bankrupt, but they do not have a complete budget on the table.

tm37, I largely disagree with your political analysis and I would reply to your previous PM, but I've reached the non-subscriber limit. I suppose I'll empty out some PMs eventually or perhaps email a reply.

If the state GOP had simply chosen an electable candidate, namely Richard Riordan who would have easily defeated Davis, they wouldn't try to be stealing the Governor's office by breaking in from the back door.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: manly
Regarding the size of the shortfall, the ironic thing is when Davis released his proposed budget in January, the state GOP cried foul and said he inflated the figure only to force tax increases. They insisted the actual shortfall was about $10 billion less. Furthermore, IIRC correctly, that original budget did not rollover the deficit over a number of years through a bond issue. The non-partisan state office that analyzes the budget both agreed with his shortfall figures and stated that his proposed budget would correct the overspending. It was a bitter pill to swallow with severe cuts, but it was probably the best proposal on the table. To Davis' discredit, facing political fire from both aisles in state Congress, and an increasingly disappointed public, his May revision included the bond measure and was subsequently blasted by GOP lawmakers as a step backward.

Not only have GOP lawmakers crafted only a partial budget with punishing cuts, and insisted on borrowing money to rollover the remaining shortfall without the sales tax increase insisted by Wall Street (who would underwrite the bonds), they still have not bridged the shortfall to balance the budget. In other words, they're happy to stonewall on tax increases until the state literally goes bankrupt, but they do not have a complete budget on the table.

tm37, I largely disagree with your political analysis and I would reply to your previous PM, but I've reached the non-subscriber limit. I suppose I'll empty out some PMs eventually or perhaps email a reply.

If the state GOP had simply chosen an electable candidate, namely Richard Riordan who would have easily defeated Davis, they wouldn't try to be stealing the Governor's office by breaking in from the back door.

They were on the way to selecting Riordan when Davis stepped in and provided a nice amount of his campaign funds to run attack ads against Riordan thereby swinging the primary to Simon.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: manly
Regarding the size of the shortfall, the ironic thing is when Davis released his proposed budget in January, the state GOP cried foul and said he inflated the figure only to force tax increases. They insisted the actual shortfall was about $10 billion less. Furthermore, IIRC correctly, that original budget did not rollover the deficit over a number of years through a bond issue. The non-partisan state office that analyzes the budget both agreed with his shortfall figures and stated that his proposed budget would correct the overspending. It was a bitter pill to swallow with severe cuts, but it was probably the best proposal on the table. To Davis' discredit, facing political fire from both aisles in state Congress, and an increasingly disappointed public, his May revision included the bond measure and was subsequently blasted by GOP lawmakers as a step backward.

Not only have GOP lawmakers crafted only a partial budget with punishing cuts, and insisted on borrowing money to rollover the remaining shortfall without the sales tax increase insisted by Wall Street (who would underwrite the bonds), they still have not bridged the shortfall to balance the budget. In other words, they're happy to stonewall on tax increases until the state literally goes bankrupt, but they do not have a complete budget on the table.

tm37, I largely disagree with your political analysis and I would reply to your previous PM, but I've reached the non-subscriber limit. I suppose I'll empty out some PMs eventually or perhaps email a reply.

If the state GOP had simply chosen an electable candidate, namely Richard Riordan who would have easily defeated Davis, they wouldn't try to be stealing the Governor's office by breaking in from the back door.

Go ahead and reply here

I'm game I PMed you to insure you got it,

 

[tm37]

BTW- here is the PM I sent to manly

after reading your post regarding the energy crisis I have to beg the question. Where do you live?

I was in San Diego when the first signs were coming to be. SDG&E was the first "DEREGULATED". As soon as it happened many local leaders traveled to sac. to discuss the impending doom that san diego was facing. Davis told them it was not an issue.

To truely understand what went wrong you need to look at the the way the system worked (or didn't work for that matter).

Everyone paid the highest bid price for the day. IF there was 100 units availible and I bid on 90 at 1 dollar and you bid on 5 at 100 dollars we would both pay the 100 even though there was a surplus of 5 units. Now knowing that one of davis FIRST STEPS was to MAKE EVERYONE BUY UNDER THIS PLAN. THat's right not just San DIego but the entire state was forced to buy energy (in state) under this plan.

THe next step of course was to cap the price for consumers because they couldn't afford to pay the bills. Nothing was done to the cost of the energy for the providers only the consumers. This of course lowered my bill but it just about bankrupted the providers.

THen Davis placed a cap on the price of energy PRODUCED and SOLD in california. So if I produced electricy in califorinia then if I wanted to sell in Cali I had to sell it at a much reduced price to what I copuld get say in Utah. Of course there were no caps on incoming power. SO in state producers shipped that power to other states where they could get a better price, Creating a shortage.

But that shortage only really effected Northern California because southern california produces enough itself and through contracts with the hoover dam to have plenty of power. Of course this would mean that those of us in San Diego would never half to deal with rolling blackouts. SO davis ORDERED PLANTS SHUT DOWN in southern California. Then in a pure stoke of genius he ordered a Plant in Chula Vista to remain operating EVEN THOUGHdoing so would cost MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN EPA Fines. The he did however allow the cost to passed on to the consumer which cost the state millions and was totally unnessisary.

They reason that Davis needed bonds to start paying for electricity was by the time he had done that he had allready spent the surplus. It was GONE. So in part you are right that the buget deficit was caused by the energy crisis. Yet I contend that had Davis not scaundered away the surplus though hue spending increases while the energy crisis was looming, and he knew it.

I am glad that I left California because with him at the helm it would appear that California is going down fast. Hell he hired Steve Peace as a finance director and as someone as informed as you claim to be even you should know who he is.

 

[Dari]

california's economy rode on the internet boom. politicians were only too happy to spend the extra tax revenues. Now that the boom has turned into a bust, they are reeling from all the spending and mismanagement. People want answers now, but they weren't complaining when the gov't was doling out the cash. And when Greenspan warned of "irrational exuberance", no one heeded it. I hope this recall fails and california (and my home state of New York for that matter) get better managers.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

California sets Oct. 7 for governor recall vote

It'll be interesting to see this play out.

CkG

 

[LunarRay]

What was it like here in CA. before the boom that went kaboom occured... anyone... well lets start with about 10m less folks to consume the infrastructure.. social structure etc... as I recall we was doing pretty OK.. so I see it as the same as "No Name City"... just a quit little folksey place until the gold was found... then all the speculators and their kids came... they got divorced and the bread winner left for Montana... the Illegals figure we can't find folks to operate McDonald's and the Arab's figure we need the corner convience store... Now the gold is all run out... no more gold... but all lots of folks are!... they are here and they ain't diggin for gold no more...nope they be looking for work... and have been for the longest... It is Davis' fault.. fer sure... totaly... man like its all like his gig and all..

 

[aluehrs]

hm... surplus turned to deficit , sounds like another politician i knoW.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: aluehrs
hm... surplus turned to deficit , sounds like another politician i knoW.

The sad thing is people actually believe there was a surplus

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Linflas

They were on the way to selecting Riordan when Davis stepped in and provided a nice amount of his campaign funds to run attack ads against Riordan thereby swinging the primary to Simon.

That's because Davis knew he'd lose Democrat votes to Roirdan and that he would beat Simple Simon. Leave it to Ca Republicans to always nominate the worst possible candidate.

 

[SuperTool]

What if this happens
45% Vote to keep Davis
30% Vote to recall and pick Issa (for example)
25% Vote to recall and pick Riordan

Then, Davis has to give his job to a guy who got a third less votes than him?
Seems to me to be a fundamentally flawed and undemocratic election, where a minority might get to pick CA's governor.
I will definitely vote to recall the new illegitimate governor if that happens.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
What if this happens
45% Vote to keep Davis
30% Vote to recall and pick Issa (for example)
25% Vote to recall and pick Riordan

Then, Davis has to give his job to a guy who got a third less votes than him?
Seems to me to be a fundamentally flawed and undemocratic election, where a minority might get to pick CA's governor.
I will definitely vote to recall the new illegitimate governor if that happens.

The format that I saw or heard on the tv was that there would be the question of recall... requiring . 50% to pass then if it passes the question of who will be looked at... if 50% or < then the issue is moot.. (I think this is what I heard)

 

[manly]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: SuperTool
What if this happens
45% Vote to keep Davis
30% Vote to recall and pick Issa (for example)
25% Vote to recall and pick Riordan

Then, Davis has to give his job to a guy who got a third less votes than him?
Seems to me to be a fundamentally flawed and undemocratic election, where a minority might get to pick CA's governor.
I will definitely vote to recall the new illegitimate governor if that happens.

The format that I saw or heard on the tv was that there would be the question of recall... requiring . 50% to pass then if it passes the question of who will be looked at... if 50% or < then the issue is moot.. (I think this is what I heard)

Umm, that's exactly what SuperTool is talking about. Can Davis can get a plurality of the total selections and get tossed out of office (the math isn't trivial because it's a two-step vote). I think Bustamante drafts the rules (with advice from legal counsel) and the state Supreme Court will make some call along the way, hopefully not vote counting a la Florida 2000.

For example, let's say 10 million people vote (a number too large, but keeps the math simple). 45% or 4.5 million vote to keep Davis, while the remainder vote for recall.

Now let's say half of those select Riordan, or 2.75 million. SuperTool is asking does 27.5% of the total vote really win a governor's election?

Davis is in for the fight of his political life, but knowing how inept the CA state GOP is, they'll probably figure out some way of fvcking it up. Like pushing Bill Simon as the man again, for example.

 

[SuperTool]

Yeah, but what if 49% vote to keep Davis, and there are 6 alternative candidates, and each one of them gets 10% of the vote or less. Does Davis then have to give his job to some shmuck who got 1/5th of the votes Davis got? How is that democratic?

 

[SuperTool]

Also, according to http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_recall_faqs.htm#14
There is nothing stopping Davis from running as a replacement for himself.
Oh man, this is going to be interesting.

 

[LunarRay]

The Lt. Gov. only get to select the date of the recall election according to Cruz..B.

What I said.. or suggested was... the first step is 1) shall davis be recalled.. yes or no.. if less than 50 % vote yes... then the rest as it relates to the govenor is moot. However, there will be other non related issues on the ballot..

If more than 50% vote yes to recall davis then on to the next part.. 2) who shall be the next govenor.. davis, issa, reardon etc... the winner gets the nod... the only question I'd have is does there need to be 50% +1 to be the next govenor ... unlike the president who operates on the elector system.. or does it go to a run off of the high two.. sometime in March with the lt. gov filling the shoes of Davis in the mean time.

I think this is what you are saying... asking.. I've looked in the code but will have to revisit it..california code

I'll be back when I've found the law in the code..

 

[SuperTool]

Actually the code says Davis cannot run.
So basically, a minority can take the governor's office in a recall election by being the second largest minority after the governor's own party.
Of course then, the majority, can recall the new governor and get that seat back. This is ripe for abuse.

 

[LunarRay]

Supertool,
you found davis can't run in the code... I couldn't find it..( the reference) do you mind giving me the reference..

 

[SuperTool]

Actually, there is an identical thread running in offtopic, and someon posted a link there.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=elec&codebody=&hits=20
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=elec&group=11001-12000&file=11381-11386

(c) No person whose recall is being sought may be a candidate to
succeed himself or herself at a recall election nor to succeed any
other member of the same governing board whose recall is being sought
at the same election.

 

[LunarRay]

11385. If at a recall election an officer is recalled, the
candidate receiving the highest number of votes for the office shall
be declared elected for the unexpired term of the recalled officer.

I guess if there were 10 folks running and the highest was 11% of the vote he would become govenor... something wrong... here..

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Actually, there is an identical thread running in offtopic, and someon posted a link there.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=elec&codebody=&hits=20
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=elec&group=11001-12000&file=11381-11386

(c) No person whose recall is being sought may be a candidate to
succeed himself or herself at a recall election nor to succeed any
other member of the same governing board whose recall is being sought
at the same election.

Sounds right, it wouldn't be a "recall" if the person being ousted is able to re-run and get the position right back.

 

[Moonbeam]

The way it works is that you vote first yes or no to recall and then you vote for a candidate. That is counterintuitive, because if you vote no, you don't want anybody running to win, but you need to vote for your favorite anyway in case the recall wins. But by voting no on part A, if the recall fails, your second vote won't matter even if that person got 100% of the vote. A win for part A means Davis stays in office.

Also, the scum who started this process are not costing the state some 30 million dollars for election costs. Because of uncertainties created in the financial markets over this potentially interminable, serial, recalls, California bonds are now somewhere down there with junk. The additional costs in interest payments over the next ten years to California tax payers, thanks to California Republicans, will be one billion dollars.

Michael Weiner, I mean Michael Savage will be on the ballot. If you are a resident you can too. I'm thinking of running myself. All you need is $3500 and 65 signatures, or 10,000 signatures and $65 to get on the ballot. Both Huffington's are running too although the hetero half is running against the recall. A vote for me is a vote for WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! That's my campaign slogan. Be sure to vote!