Davis will face recall

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LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Well if you're running it must be as a Republican... and doing so to dilute the winner (assuming the recall prevails) and thereby eliminate the claimed mandate to effect some new Agenda for the State. If you win it will only be with 18 to 25 % of the votes cast.. not really anything to call home about..:)

I don't think the recall will prevail but if it does I'll vote for you... but, what do you do about Oakland?
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Keep in mind that if a governor is appointed in a recall election without 50% of the voters picking him, he is an immediate candidate for a recall, because he won't be able to muster the 50% necessary to keep his job in a recall election.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Keep in mind that if a governor is appointed in a recall election without 50% of the voters picking him, he is an immediate candidate for a recall, because he won't be able to muster the 50% necessary to keep his job in a recall election.

Interesting... and another waste of our money.... Why not let Cruz B. take over if the recall effort prevails.. he's not a potted plant.. as Lt. Gov..

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,736
6,759
126
LR, not a chance in hell that Davis will step down. Certainly after the election he can't step down if he looses because he won't have a job to step down from. It may be that he can't step down now that the election is set. Anyway, he won't. Like everybody else, he's more important than California. At least he has an excuse. He won the last election.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Won the last election.. For a change the chief executive was elected and the right wants to overturn the will of the people by garnering some small percentage of voters in extreme right leaning areas and oust the Govenor. Couple years back ('98) the prior govenor (Pete) found all sorts of ways to divie up the 4B surplus..
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Saw this Governor Davis with his wife this morning with Matt Lauer.

He was trying to survive on saying how the recall was started 30 days after the Election, "How can you do anything in 30 days?" he says. The next sentence he says " I was elected for a unprecedented 5th time by the voters of California".

So it wasn't based on 30 days idiot, the people finally woke up.

Also he was crying it is just a ploy by the Republicans to negate another Election like 2002. So I'd like to see another Democrat get in that postion then to shut that rhetoric crap down. Or how bout Californians speak a real message and put a third party candidate in like Minnesota did with Jesse Ventura.

Just put the Terminator in there even if he doesn't run as a write in.
 

LeadMagnet

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,348
0
0
Originally posted by: Michael
It has a lot more to do with huge spending increases that relied on the internet bubble going forever to keep revenues high. Revenue crashed and can't support the spending increases that far outpaced population growth.
[



q]Originally posted by: Michael
The basic argument was that Davis lied about how bad the budget problems were and that he never would have been reelected if the voters of California only knew.

There is a kernal of truth there - the deficit projects did make a huge jump. However, the fact that there was a large deficit coming and that Davis was mostly resposnible for it was no secret and was argued during the election. I sometimes listen to talk radio (I live in the East Bay area of SF) and this was definately discussed including speculation that the numbers were worse.
Michael[/quote]

That says it all. Thanks Michael



Originally posted by: Michael
It has a lot more to do with huge spending increases that relied on the internet bubble going forever to keep revenues high. Revenue crashed and can't support the spending increases that far outpaced population growth.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Schwarzenegger Likely to Not Run for Gov.

blames it on his wife Maria, she says the Campaign would be too much especially for the kids 5 & 13 and she moved away from Washington to get away from Politics.
rolleye.gif
What a wimp, I bet if it was the other way around she would run for Office in a heartbeat.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,736
6,759
126
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Issa may not be what he claims, looks to me like he fabricates 'His Truth for his agenda'

Does this guy imitate Bush the Lessor ?

But, only people with agendas see agendas...right MB? :)
So what's your agenda?

Looking for other people's agendas.
Absolutely, Since I have none I have to ask. I can't read a preconceived one in.
 

ZaneNBK

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2000
1,674
0
76
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
My only beef with the recall is that it will cost alot of taxpayers money to have the recall. But if that is what Californians want/need to get someone who they think will stand up and be the ideas guy then that is their call. I just hope they don't replace one fool with another. California is in need of strong leadership in the worst way.

We just hired an Electrical Engineer who worked and lived in the Bay area who says that it is alot worse than the national media is letting on. The teachers are in jeopardy of having to lay off thousands of teachers, and state workers are on the block too. I hope they can get things turned around quick no matter what they decide on the recall.

CkG

I heard on NPR that the cost of the recall will be around $45-70 million or something like that. Yes, that's a lot of money, but how much money has Davis cost CA? It's in the billions.

He basically lied about our budget situation in order to get re-elected and he signed long term power contracts near the end of the energy crisis when power prices were still super high. It was obvious at the time that the crisis was manufactured (approximately 33% or more of CA's power production was offline for 'routine maintenance' for an extended period of time among other things) and you NEVER sign long term contracts when prices are soaring. His term in office will be costing CA for years to come.

I don't know that his replacement (be it democrat or republican) will be much better, but they sure as hell can't be much worse.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
It could be like Pete Wilson who gave us deregulation in the first place. The blame for the energy crisis lies squarely with Bush appointed FERC, whose job it is to prevent this market manipulation,
and who failed to do its job because Bush political contributors were making lots of money. Not suprising from a presedent who flew on Enron plane during election campaign.
I guess we'll just have to wait till Dubya is out of office before we can get a consumer friendlier FERC to rectify the situation. And yes, Davis should not have signed those contracts.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,435
234
106
SuperTool - The crisis started with Clinton in power and FERC did nothing then. I'm not even sure if the Bush appointees were in place on FERC by the time it all wound down. FERC actually did take action, so I'm incorrect to say they did nothing.

Michael
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
This is interesting
You can vote against the recall, and still pick a replacement in case the recall succeeds.
Basically question 1 will be independent of question 2. You can vote up down or abstain on question 1 (recall), and then pick or not pick a replacement on question 2 (replacement).
Then they will count all the votes for and against recall in question 1, independent of question2, and if more people vote to recall than keep, then they will see who got most votes in question 2, independent of their answer in question 1.
Looks like I will be voting against recall (I don't necessarily like Davis, but I think this recall is wrong since we just elected him last year), but I will put Riordan as a replacement if Davis is recalled.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,266
4,043
136
Okay tm37 probably thinks I'm ducking his PM, when I'm just plain lazy, so I'll respond with my 2 cents.

First off, I live in L.A. but that isn't entirely relevant. ;)

As for the topic of the energy crisis that tm37 described, I'll throw out a few points. For starters, I don't think anybody gives Gray Davis good marks for handling the crisis. But what I do remember are dire predictions that armageddon would break out in the hot summer months. Remember that rolling blackouts hit NorCal in mild winter months; all the pundits expected the whole state to expect daily rolling blackouts come summer 2001. Instead, the much derided long-term contracts went a long way to help stabilize the markets during the worst days of the manufactured crisis.

My recollection of the contracts is that nobody believed he could deliver long-term contracts at his stated goal of 6 cents/Kwh. They did come pretty close at 6.9 cents average, which actually surprised a lot of the analysts IIRC. Now we that know the extent of the criminal market manipulation, IMO it's actually an accomplishment to have gotten what was considered reasonable, stabilizing deals done. In a recurring theme, how is it now Davis' fault that FERC wants to uphold those contracts signed under duress, with many of the same players that gamed the market? Regardless of FERC, the fact that Davis has successfully pressed many companies to renegotiate those deals says a lot about the market pricing under which they were signed. Let's not forget the prices paid on the disfunctional spot market were orders of magnitude worse in comparison.

Or would all the whiners have literally preferred that the state do nothing, let the utilities go bankrupt without a backup plan, and have chaos ensue? While the governor can issue an executive order to take over the entire power grid, he simply doesn't have the authority to force out-of-state suppliers to sell power at any set price.

Secondly, you simply can't blame Davis for the flawed energy marketplace that was implemented. I must say I didn't know a heck of a lot about Steve Peace, alluded to complicit fault by tm37. After doing the requisite Googling, what I learned is he headed the crafting of the deregulation bill in the legislature. But he was not an architect of the actual flawed energy marketplace; in fact, he was credited with making sure deregulation was more consumer-friendly than the proposed plan.

If you want to pin energy deregulation on one person, then pin it on Pete Wilson. Based on my readings, he was probably its biggest champion in CA politics, and actively sold it to the legislature. Besides Props. 187 and 209, energy deregulation AS IT WAS IMPLEMENTED probably are Wilson's crowning achievements.

As for Steve Peace, the energy crisis is credited with costing him his political career, even though like I said, he wasn't actually an energy markets architect.

Anyhow, like most of us would agree, it's fairly fruitless to debate the failings of deregulation in order to assign blame. More importantly, Davis has received poor marks for not handling the crisis effectively. But while it appears no administrators confronted the nascent crisis as it emerged in San Diego, the crisis could also have persisted and become much worse. Not to say that I give praise in the final analysis; CA weathered the energy crisis, but only at a substantially painful cost that's amortized over many years.

On that topic, Michael is correct that FERC was not responsive beginning at that the end of the Clinton administration. However, the record does show V.P. Dick Cheney on multiple news shows affirming that deregulated energy markets are sound, that the crisis was a state problem, and that the federal government absolutely would not intervene. Obviously, FERC's board is appointed by the administration, so it isn't exactly an independent agency. If Cheney was so correct with his poweful assertions in March 2001, why did FERC eventually relent? On balance, it was the price caps (and not any Davis' actions) that were most effective in stabilizing the wildly broken energy markets. Unfortunately, they came so late as to literally cost CA billions of dollars.

Even now, it was comical when FERC chaiman Pat Wood said something like it's coincidental that the long-term contracts he voted to uphold are with some of the same market participants that FERC is not only investigating, but will likely eventually (half-heartedly) penalize. Everybody understands that if I point a gun at your head, and force you to sign over your life savings, that contract is wholly invalid. That a majority of FERC thinks this situation is merely coincidence, and that the legal sanctity of contracts is more important is just plain goofy. The tricky question is what about contracts signed with suppliers who did not actively game the markets, but still benefited from Enron and friend's fraudulent ploys?

We could debate the deregulation/energy crisis for days and still not be done. I've probably left out some points I wanted to mention, but I've written enough on the topic for one post. It's actually tangential (but definitely related) to this thread anyhow.

Anyhow, I'll have to add my opinions on the budget crisis and the recall in a later follow-up.
 

LeadMagnet

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,348
0
0
Originally posted by: tm37
Originally posted by: aluehrs
hm... surplus turned to deficit , sounds like another politician i knoW.

The sad thing is people actually believe there was a surplus


You got that right, the goverment kept increasing spending as more money came in during the roaring 90's, when the revenue decreased with the economy downturn then all those lovely pet pork projects , and essencialy are getting the axe.
 

ZaneNBK

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2000
1,674
0
76
Originally posted by: LeadMagnet
Originally posted by: tm37
Originally posted by: aluehrs
hm... surplus turned to deficit , sounds like another politician i knoW.

The sad thing is people actually believe there was a surplus

You got that right, the goverment kept increasing spending as more money came in during the roaring 90's, when the revenue decreased with the economy downturn then all those lovely pet pork projects , and essencialy are getting the axe.

If those projects WERE getting the axe then a lot more people would be less upset. One of the problems is that instead of axing those projects first they're cutting funding to emergency services such as hospitals and education in an attempt to get more support for increased taxes. Because obviously if they have to cut those vital programs then we really really need to raise more tax money.

Meanwhile pet project 'Make Politicians X, Y and Z even richer' are still sitting around soaking up money.
 

tm37

Lifer
Jan 24, 2001
12,436
1
0
Ok I am gonna try on each of theese points. BTW I am pretty sure there are more than two cents here;)


Originally posted by: manly
Okay tm37 probably thinks I'm ducking his PM, when I'm just plain lazy, so I'll respond with my 2 cents.

First off, I live in L.A. but that isn't entirely relevant. ;)

As for the topic of the energy crisis that tm37 described, I'll throw out a few points. For starters, I don't think anybody gives Gray Davis good marks for handling the crisis. But what I do remember are dire predictions that armageddon would break out in the hot summer months. Remember that rolling blackouts hit NorCal in mild winter months; all the pundits expected the whole state to expect daily rolling blackouts come summer 2001. Instead, the much derided long-term contracts went a long way to help stabilize the markets during the worst days of the manufactured crisis.

but one must ask what was the cause of this electrical shortfall. When before deregulation did we run into these problems of rolling blackouts? What caused the shortage was that energy produced in california when sold in california had a much lower price than anywhere else. They drove the power out of state because the price was so low. SO while you may praise davis for dealing with a shortage I will continue to contend that HE CREATED the shortage."

My recollection of the contracts is that nobody believed he could deliver long-term contracts at his stated
goal of 6 cents/Kwh. They did come pretty close at 6.9 cents average, which actually surprised a lot of the analysts IIRC. Now we that know the extent of the criminal market manipulation, IMO it's actually an accomplishment to have gotten what was considered reasonable, stabilizing deals done. In a recurring theme, how is it now Davis' fault that FERC wants to uphold those contracts signed under duress, with many of the same players that gamed the market? Regardless of FERC, the fact that Davis has successfully pressed many companies to renegotiate those deals says a lot about the market pricing under which they were signed. Let's not forget the prices paid on the disfunctional spot market were orders of magnitude worse in comparison.

see the above to see how I feel about this. Davis signed what many believe(including myself) to be illegal contracts signed and HID from the taxpayers until the courts ordered him to disclose them.

Or would all the whiners have literally preferred that the state do nothing, let the utilities go bankrupt without a backup plan, and have chaos ensue? While the governor can issue an executive order to take over the entire power grid, he simply doesn't have the authority to force out-of-state suppliers to sell power at any set price.

actually they could have done away with the power exchange and allowed the producers to deal directly with the providers as was proposed by susaan golding and mayor dick murphy.

Secondly, you simply can't blame Davis for the flawed energy marketplace that was implemented. I must say I didn't know a heck of a lot about Steve Peace, alluded to complicit fault by tm37. After doing the requisite Googling, what I learned is he headed the crafting of the deregulation bill in the legislature. But he was not an architect of the actual flawed energy marketplace; in fact, he was credited with making sure deregulation was more consumer-friendly than the proposed plan.
Steve peace is a fool. He championed deregulation. When My bill started rising Steve peace told me who to blame was it the energy producers? No Was it the power exchange? Of course not the party to blame was of course that evil SDG&E that was vcharging it's customers the price that was determained by the GOVERNMENT RUN Power Exchange. Steve peace was actually telling people not to pay there elcetric bills becuase sdg&e was ripping them off. for someone who was championing this he really didn't have a clue.

If you want to pin energy deregulation on one person, then pin it on Pete Wilson. Based on my readings, he was probably its biggest champion in CA politics, and actively sold it to the legislature. Besides Props. 187 and 209, energy deregulation AS IT WAS IMPLEMENTED probably are Wilson's crowning achievements.

the original deregulation was a bipartisian bill and signed by pete wilson. While the original bill was seriously flawed, Grey Davis took those flaws and maginfied them. He took everything that was bad about the deregulation and made it worse.


As for Steve Peace, the energy crisis is credited with costing him his political career, even though like I said, he wasn't actually an energy markets architect.

Anyhow, like most of us would agree, it's fairly fruitless to debate the failings of deregulation in order to assign blame. More importantly, Davis has received poor marks for not handling the crisis effectively. But while it appears no administrators confronted the nascent crisis as it emerged in San Diego, the crisis could also have persisted and become much worse. Not to say that I give praise in the final analysis; CA weathered the energy crisis, but only at a substantially painful cost that's amortized over many years.

at the start of the crisis mayor susan golding went to sacromento to get help. Davis told her it was "a local issue" soon after Murphy was elected he made a trip and told Davis of the impending doom agian davis said there was nothing he could do.


On that topic, Michael is correct that FERC was not responsive beginning at that the end of the Clinton administration. However, the record does show V.P. Dick Cheney on multiple news shows affirming that deregulated energy markets are sound, that the crisis was a state problem, and that the federal government absolutely would not intervene. Obviously, FERC's board is appointed by the administration, so it isn't exactly an independent agency. If Cheney was so correct with his poweful assertions in March 2001, why did FERC eventually relent? On balance, it was the price caps (and not any Davis' actions) that were most effective in stabilizing the wildly broken energy markets. Unfortunately, they came so late as to literally cost CA billions of dollars.

Even now, it was comical when FERC chaiman Pat Wood said something like it's coincidental that the long-term contracts he voted to uphold are with some of the same market participants that FERC is not only investigating, but will likely eventually (half-heartedly) penalize. Everybody understands that if I point a gun at your head, and force you to sign over your life savings, that contract is wholly invalid. That a majority of FERC thinks this situation is merely coincidence, and that the legal sanctity of contracts is more important is just plain goofy. The tricky question is what about contracts signed with suppliers who did not actively game the markets, but still benefited from Enron and friend's fraudulent ploys?

We could debate the deregulation/energy crisis for days and still not be done. I've probably left out some points I wanted to mention, but I've written enough on the topic for one post. It's actually tangential (but definitely related) to this thread anyhow.

Anyhow, I'll have to add my opinions on the budget crisis and the recall in a later follow-up.

got other stuff todo so That's all I got for now.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,266
4,043
136
Originally posted by: tm37
Ok I am gonna try on each of theese points. BTW I am pretty sure there are more than two cents here;)
Ahh well you know us tax and SPENDERS. ;)
Originally posted by: manly
Okay tm37 probably thinks I'm ducking his PM, when I'm just plain lazy, so I'll respond with my 2 cents.

First off, I live in L.A. but that isn't entirely relevant. ;)

As for the topic of the energy crisis that tm37 described, I'll throw out a few points. For starters, I don't think anybody gives Gray Davis good marks for handling the crisis. But what I do remember are dire predictions that armageddon would break out in the hot summer months. Remember that rolling blackouts hit NorCal in mild winter months; all the pundits expected the whole state to expect daily rolling blackouts come summer 2001. Instead, the much derided long-term contracts went a long way to help stabilize the markets during the worst days of the manufactured crisis.

but one must ask what was the cause of this electrical shortfall. When before deregulation did we run into these problems of rolling blackouts? What caused the shortage was that energy produced in california when sold in california had a much lower price than anywhere else. They drove the power out of state because the price was so low. SO while you may praise davis for dealing with a shortage I will continue to contend that HE CREATED the shortage."
First off, you know I don't praise Davis. But more importantly, here's the problem I have with your argument. Davis was not governor when the failed deregulation plan was adopted. Your assign of blame to Davis is akin to blaming G.W. Bush for the recession or for 9/11. Now let's be clear, you blame Davis for moves that contributed to the problem, which is fair. Like I said in my PM, I will concede your research on SG&E as valid. However, I strongly disagree that Davis deserves the lion's share of fault for the energy crisis, as you seem to assert. First off, he did not champion deregulation, secondly he did not influence the flawed legislation that passed AFAIK, thirdly he was not a participant in the market gaming that is the "smoking gun" in the crisis, and finally he was not directing FERC to ignore it's stated mission to police energy markets. What we can certainly evaluate Davis, the state's chief executive, on is how he handled the crisis, and clearly you give him an F.

But IMO blaming Davis for causing the energy crisis is also like blaming "tree-hugging" environmentalists for the absence of power plant construction for the decade leading up to the crisis. Sure, the environmental lobby is powerful in CA state. But the whole idea of interstate energy markets is that it does not matter where energy is produced; it is sold and transmitted to the buyer. The problem is that the design of the markets were flawed, and energy companies (mostly political friends of Bush/Cheney/FERC) not only exploited those flaws for profit, which is arguably American free enterprise, but also turned the screws when a full-on crisis hit a handful of Western states.

Furthermore, I believe the record shows that there wasn't a literal energy shortfall. Supplies were crimped because the CA power market was flawed and exploited by an oligopoly, not because CA and out-of-state production was insufficient to meet consumer demand. We all know about the drought in the Northwest that seriously affected hydroelecticity production.

People cite Texas as an example of successful energy deregulation. Well, guess what? They have approx. 15% overproduction based on what I recall reading. Any free market with a glut of supply would lead to prices going down. On the other hand, Houston not only supplanted L.A. as the nation's worst city for air quality, it did so even though the car is king in L.A. Unfortunately, the popularity of light trucks (namely SUVs) is reversing the improvement of air quality in L.A. county. But from the descriptions I've seen, Houston's air quality today is reminiscent of L.A. 25 years ago: dreadful.
My recollection of the contracts is that nobody believed he could deliver long-term contracts at his stated
goal of 6 cents/Kwh. They did come pretty close at 6.9 cents average, which actually surprised a lot of the analysts IIRC. Now we that know the extent of the criminal market manipulation, IMO it's actually an accomplishment to have gotten what was considered reasonable, stabilizing deals done. In a recurring theme, how is it now Davis' fault that FERC wants to uphold those contracts signed under duress, with many of the same players that gamed the market? Regardless of FERC, the fact that Davis has successfully pressed many companies to renegotiate those deals says a lot about the market pricing under which they were signed. Let's not forget the prices paid on the disfunctional spot market were orders of magnitude worse in comparison.

see the above to see how I feel about this. Davis signed what many believe(including myself) to be illegal contracts signed and HID from the taxpayers until the courts ordered him to disclose them.
I haven't analyzed this issue in depth, but I do agree the notion of secret contracts is at least troubling. If you are correct, does that imply FERC has yet another reason to invalidate the contracts?
Or would all the whiners have literally preferred that the state do nothing, let the utilities go bankrupt without a backup plan, and have chaos ensue? While the governor can issue an executive order to take over the entire power grid, he simply doesn't have the authority to force out-of-state suppliers to sell power at any set price.

actually they could have done away with the power exchange and allowed the producers to deal directly with the providers as was proposed by susaan golding and mayor dick murphy.
You're a lot closer to San Diego politics than I am, so I have little to add here. But let me ask you this, if fixing the flawed CA system was so trivial, why did it literally take regulation, namely FERC's price caps, to finally quash the crisis?
Secondly, you simply can't blame Davis for the flawed energy marketplace that was implemented. I must say I didn't know a heck of a lot about Steve Peace, alluded to complicit fault by tm37. After doing the requisite Googling, what I learned is he headed the crafting of the deregulation bill in the legislature. But he was not an architect of the actual flawed energy marketplace; in fact, he was credited with making sure deregulation was more consumer-friendly than the proposed plan.
Steve peace is a fool. He championed deregulation. When My bill started rising Steve peace told me who to blame was it the energy producers? No Was it the power exchange? Of course not the party to blame was of course that evil SDG&E that was vcharging it's customers the price that was determained by the GOVERNMENT RUN Power Exchange. Steve peace was actually telling people not to pay there elcetric bills becuase sdg&e was ripping them off. for someone who was championing this he really didn't have a clue.
Like I said I don't know much about Peace except that he's a politician. ;) I will disagree that he championed deregulation. All the references I saw said he led the legislature's authorship of the deregulation bill, but he did not architect the actual flawed system that was implemented. He probably didn't have a clue, although he tried to make the legislation more friendly for consumers. Unfortunately I doubt anybody in the legislature understood what they were doing.
If you want to pin energy deregulation on one person, then pin it on Pete Wilson. Based on my readings, he was probably its biggest champion in CA politics, and actively sold it to the legislature. Besides Props. 187 and 209, energy deregulation AS IT WAS IMPLEMENTED probably are Wilson's crowning achievements.

the original deregulation was a bipartisian bill and signed by pete wilson. While the original bill was seriously flawed, Grey Davis took those flaws and maginfied them. He took everything that was bad about the deregulation and made it worse.


As for Steve Peace, the energy crisis is credited with costing him his political career, even though like I said, he wasn't actually an energy markets architect.

Anyhow, like most of us would agree, it's fairly fruitless to debate the failings of deregulation in order to assign blame. More importantly, Davis has received poor marks for not handling the crisis effectively. But while it appears no administrators confronted the nascent crisis as it emerged in San Diego, the crisis could also have persisted and become much worse. Not to say that I give praise in the final analysis; CA weathered the energy crisis, but only at a substantially painful cost that's amortized over many years.

at the start of the crisis mayor susan golding went to sacromento to get help. Davis told her it was "a local issue" soon after Murphy was elected he made a trip and told Davis of the impending doom agian davis said there was nothing he could do.


On that topic, Michael is correct that FERC was not responsive beginning at that the end of the Clinton administration. However, the record does show V.P. Dick Cheney on multiple news shows affirming that deregulated energy markets are sound, that the crisis was a state problem, and that the federal government absolutely would not intervene. Obviously, FERC's board is appointed by the administration, so it isn't exactly an independent agency. If Cheney was so correct with his poweful assertions in March 2001, why did FERC eventually relent? On balance, it was the price caps (and not any Davis' actions) that were most effective in stabilizing the wildly broken energy markets. Unfortunately, they came so late as to literally cost CA billions of dollars.

Even now, it was comical when FERC chaiman Pat Wood said something like it's coincidental that the long-term contracts he voted to uphold are with some of the same market participants that FERC is not only investigating, but will likely eventually (half-heartedly) penalize. Everybody understands that if I point a gun at your head, and force you to sign over your life savings, that contract is wholly invalid. That a majority of FERC thinks this situation is merely coincidence, and that the legal sanctity of contracts is more important is just plain goofy. The tricky question is what about contracts signed with suppliers who did not actively game the markets, but still benefited from Enron and friend's fraudulent ploys?

We could debate the deregulation/energy crisis for days and still not be done. I've probably left out some points I wanted to mention, but I've written enough on the topic for one post. It's actually tangential (but definitely related) to this thread anyhow.

Anyhow, I'll have to add my opinions on the budget crisis and the recall in a later follow-up.

got other stuff todo so That's all I got for now.
I'm not sure we ought to continue the debate on the energy crisis; it literally could go on for months. ;) I do believe your position is biased due to your conservative political beliefs and despise for Gray Davis. And I'm sure you'd say I'm colored by bias as well. I'm not a fan of Davis, but I am one of the few remaining CA residents to defend him, simply because I feel the populace unfairly pins all the ills of society on him, which opened the door for the recall effort as an indictment of his popular appeal. Obviously, the guy sitting at the top is the easiest to single out for blame, deservedly or otherwise.

At any rate, I still haven't discussed the budget crisis and the recall like I stated I (eventually) would. Next time.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
Davis has about 40% of the voters as his base (i.e. no on the Recall).
A new poll by the LA Times shows 45% of likely voters against the recall and 50% for the recall.
Parties seek 2 man race in Recall

A new poll release Friday shows Californians are closely divided on whether to recall Davis, a change from earlier polls that suggested stronger support for the effort.
The Los Angeles Times poll found half of likely voters support the recall effort, while 45 percent are opposed and 4 percent undecided. The poll of 801 likely voters had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.


We don't know who the likely voters are so pollsters are probably having a hard time predicting voter turnout and likely voters as there has never been a recall like this.

I think it's also ironic that Davis could lose with 49.99% against the recall and someone else can become governor with 35% of the vote. He needs to continue to nationalize this election and solidfy that base of 40% against and push that number past 50%. Wow! The race is not over.