Davis will face recall

[charrison]

linkage

Gov. Gray Davis became the nation's first governor in 82 years to face a recall election, as California's secretary of state announced Wednesday that a Republican-led campaign once discounted as improbable had qualified for the ballot.

Davis, a career Democratic politician who was elected in a landslide in 1998 before his popularity plunged amid California's energy crisis and budget deficit, must face the electorate in 60 to 80 days, according to state law

 

[tm37]

Good deal.

I really hope that ISSA wins.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

My only beef with the recall is that it will cost alot of taxpayers money to have the recall. But if that is what Californians want/need to get someone who they think will stand up and be the ideas guy then that is their call. I just hope they don't replace one fool with another. California is in need of strong leadership in the worst way.

We just hired an Electrical Engineer who worked and lived in the Bay area who says that it is alot worse than the national media is letting on. The teachers are in jeopardy of having to lay off thousands of teachers, and state workers are on the block too. I hope they can get things turned around quick no matter what they decide on the recall.

CkG

 

[JellyBaby]

I agree with CADkindaGUY and feel this is healthy in a general sense. Leaders who lead so poorly they get their state into a fiscal crisis need to know they can be held accountable and removed should the citizens demand it.

I just hope they don't replace one fool with another.

I wonder if Ahnuld might be that fool? His politics are unknown to me though I've heard he's a liberal republican (Maria's influence?).

 

[Tripleshot]

I don't live there anymore, but out of curiosity, is the budget woes at all tied to the energy expenses charged at the time Bush was appointed president?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Tripleshot
I don't live there anymore, but out of curiosity, is the budget woes at all tied to the energy expenses charged at the time Bush was appointed president?

no, it is tied to huge spending increases and decreased tax receipts

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Tripleshot
I don't live there anymore, but out of curiosity, is the budget woes at all tied to the energy expenses charged at the time Bush was appointed president?

I believe Davis was blaming the budget crisis on the sluggish ecomomy, which is true to an extent.

CkG

 

[LunarRay]

I don't know... if he will or won't..

If he resigns the Lt. Govenor... a dem will take over... and poof goes the recall..
If he faces recall but the election for a new govenor is not on the ballot... a legit thing I think... then the election will be in March fro Gov... when there will be greater Dem turnout... and no one will run but Davis and the Republican....

I think if it looks bad for Davis he'll quit and let the Lt. Gov take over... good strategy.. me thinks and then Lt. Gov can rerun in four years..

 

[Dari]

this direct democracy thing is disturbing, to say the least. you can't elect someone, then have somebody with deep pockets unseat him via a recall. Grey Davis may be unpopular, but the methodolgy to change things is unsettling. California needs to get rid of the referendum clause in their legislative system. At best, gets citizens more involved with politics. At worst, it's a recipe anarchy where ANY measure can be passed, bypassing an elected (and eventually inept) council.

 

[Michael]

Tripleshot - It has a lot more to do with huge spending increases that relied on the internet bubble going forever to keep revenues high. Revenue crashed and can't support the spending increases that far outpaced population growth.

The government isn't paying for the energy costs, that's being passed on to the consumers. Indirectly, the higher costs probably are hurting employment and hence revenue, but California has many more structural problems than just high electricity costs.

Michael

ps - the crisis started before Bush was President. If anything, it had to do with not building any infrastructure for a long time (long enough that you can blame Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton and you may need to go before Reagan). I know you can't resist tossing in an anti-Bush comment. Your question would have been fine without it. Too bad you're so blinded by hate that you couldn't resist. Look on the bright side, your meds must be working tonight because your post was coherent.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Dari
this direct democracy thing is disturbing, to say the least. you can't elect someone, then have somebody with deep pockets unseat him via a recall. Grey Davis may be unpopular, but the methodolgy to change things is unsettling. California needs to get rid of the referendum clause in their legislative system. At best, gets citizens more involved with politics. At worst, it's a recipe anarchy where ANY measure can be passed, bypassing an elected (and eventually inept) council.

Don't ya think the people are the government and ought to be able to choose what they wish.. even if some don't agree we are smart enough to know how to tie a shoe.. a citizen is a citizen... maybe not a neocon but, a citizen none the less... take the power back.. I think it would be OK to do away with the legislature and let the people vote directly.. ya know without the agent in between... I certainly want no one who rely on voter apathy to get an agenda through..

 

[Ferocious]

As much as Davis sucks....I really think this is bad idea and will open up a can of worms.

Just vote him out of office in the next election.

heh rich Republicans are going to be looking elsewhere after this victory.

 

[DealMonkey]

Personally, I don't see what the big flap is over Gray Davis. He seems like an impersonal cur, but I do think a lot of things he's blamed for could be attributed elsewhere.

Energy Crisis: Davis inherited a deregulated energy market (deregulated by Pete Wilson) which was then manipulated by energy producers.

Online NewsHour w/ Jim Lehrer

And in 1996, the legislature and Governor Pete Wilson joined forces with privately owned utilities and large power consumers to begin to deregulate the market. Under the plan, the utilities sold off most of their power plants, mostly to out-of-state companies. And transmission of power was handed over to a semi-private corporation, the California Independent Service Operator -- ISO.

Surprisingly, for nearly everyone, competition failed to develop. Only a few new power plants were built, as investors shied away from the uncertain regulatory and environmental climate in California. Meanwhile, demand for power kept rising, as the state and the economy grew. Still, practically no one saw a shortage coming.

Budget/CA Economy: A trifecta of a faltering national economy, reduced funds from the federal government, and yes increased spending.

Budget Woes Trickle Down

It feels that way in many towns and cities from border to border, as Washington and the states push fiscal crises of historic proportions from one level of government down to the next. While cutting federal taxes, President Bush and Congress left billions of dollars of federal education, health care and homeland security obligations to states. Governors and legislators -- already struggling to fix record budget deficits, mostly without raising taxes -- cut spending deeply in almost every area, including local aid. With nowhere else to send the bill, local governments are cutting services and, in many cases, raising property taxes.

Beyond all of this though, who's to say budget deficits are so bad, certainly when the feds doing it? So it's OK for Bush to run a big deficit, but not the states? A lot of other states are in sad shape too -- I don't think any of this is limited to California.

 

[Michael]

DealMonkey - Republican governor and Democrat House and Senate. Both parties are to "blame" for the deregulation. Not that it is a bad idea, but it was implemented poorly considering the lack of investment in supply in California.

Also, California's budget gap is huge compared to other states. Mostly caused by decisions made inside California, not outside mandated spending increases. California is almost a 1 party state. The Democrats have every sigle state-wide office at this point. However, this is also a state that was a leader in medical tort reform that is being blocked in Washington now and it actually is an OK place to practice medicine in.

Michael

- edit - I'll insert my personal opinion - the recall is a dumb idea. The situation really isn't all that different than what was presented last election. Davis won it. I think this isn't quite what the recall was intended for. This would have been better to be settled the next general election for Governor.

 

[Shantanu]

Medical tort reform, eh? Maybe I'll have to look into California some more after med school.

 

[Moonbeam]

This is really a horrible day. I agree here with Dari:

"this direct democracy thing is disturbing, to say the least. you can't elect someone, then have somebody with deep pockets unseat him via a recall. Grey Davis may be unpopular, but the methodolgy to change things is unsettling. California needs to get rid of the referendum clause in their legislative system. At best, gets citizens more involved with politics. At worst, it's a recipe anarchy where ANY measure can be passed, bypassing an elected (and eventually inept) council."

What we have here which is disturbing, to borrow a word, is a tyranny of a minority, a recall based on the signatures of a small minority of the state's population. I forget the percent and don't want to go find it. These signatures are gathered often by bounty hunters, essentially who may not give a rat's ass about the issues, but get a dollar a signature for the vultures funding the recall. These types are expert at extracting an easy sign on from people who are approached brain dead as they shop. This is unimaginably far from a deliberative process, a spur of the moment thing. The problem is that Davis is not well liked even though according to one of our fiercely rightist radio hosts, he's actually not done that bad of a job. On the other hand LR's post points to an equally valid if opposite point:

"Don't ya think the people are the government and ought to be able to choose what they wish.. even if some don't agree we are smart enough to know how to tie a shoe.. a citizen is a citizen... maybe not a neocon but, a citizen none the less... take the power back.. I think it would be OK to do away with the legislature and let the people vote directly.. ya know without the agent in between... I certainly want no one who rely on voter apathy to get an agenda through.."

It will be by citizen initiative in Ca that we will be able to keep our financial records private. Jacky Speer? will bring that to a vote because the lobbyists were able to stymie it in the legislature via campaign contributions even thought the voters favor it 97 to 3. The financial corps will spend 30 million to defeat the initiative, but I bet they fail. So citizen democracy is and can be vitally important.

I think the answer here is to raise the ridiculously low % is it like 12% to approve a recall to something approaching reality, maybe 50% or more so that you could get rid of a criminal, but not some dude who walked into and maybe didn't tremendously handle a genuine financial catastrophe. The referendum is an opportunistic attack by a guy Davis defeated at the ballot box in better days. I think he should be out of the running till next election and not get in through the back door. Whatever your opinion of Davis, can't stand him myself, he is neither incompetent nor a crook. He disserves his term, I think.

 

[LunarRay]

On the off chance anyone would like the budget facts

budget

Go to the section that deals with the issue at hand... the deficit...

 

[flavio]

I'm no huge fan of Davis but he does get blamed for a lot of things unfairly. The energy crisis for example, is one of the biggest. Largely inherited and then made far worse by out of state companies raping the CA for profits.

Davis won the last election because his competition (Simon) was a joke. As happens in most elections you hold your nose and vote for the person that sucks the least.

The recall election will cost the state millions it can't afford and has a very good chance of ending with Davis still in office. The guy that is bankrolling the recall effort is not a great choice for the position either.

 

[Drift3r]

I just wanna know how this is going to solve anything ? I have not seen any answers from those who wanted this recall as to how to solve our problems aside from the spending cuts that are already going through. The only thing I have seen is both sides blame each other and thats not solving anything. This whole recall thing is freaking waste of my tax dollars. It's bad enough that the prison guard union demanded and got their pay raise which happened to raise my car registration fees. Now we have this mess to deal with. Can't these guys just freaking grow the hell up and wait for the next official election instead of waste millions of dollars we don't have !?

 

[SuperTool]

I think it's a terrible idea. We have elections for a reason. Davis won. I would have hoped that GOP have nominated Riordan.
I don't think we should have partisan recalls just because you can raise 1 million signatures. Considering we have 30 million people in CA, i don't think a tiny minority should have the right to distract a sitting governor by forcing him into a recall election whenever they please.

 

[chrisms]

Asta la vista, Gray Davis.

Who would name their kid Gray? What bastard parents.

 

[digitalsm]

CA is squarely to blame for their budget problems. It has been mismanaged, yes there are other factors but its still left on the shoulders of Cali for not doing something well before now. Other states have deficits but are no where near the sorry shape of CA. You cant just blame one person for CAs budget problem its their entire state government, but it is ultimately Davis resposibility. Hes the scapegoat, no one that replaces hims going to solve a thing.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
I think it's a terrible idea. We have elections for a reason. Davis won. I would have hoped that GOP have nominated Riordan.
I don't think we should have partisan recalls just because you can raise 1 million signatures. Considering we have 30 million people in CA, i don't think a tiny minority should have the right to distract a sitting governor by forcing him into a recall election whenever they please.

Duh, thats why there are two questions that will be on the ballot. Should the governer be recalled? and Who should the governer be?

If the first question doesnt have a majority vote, the second part doesnt matter.

 

[chowderhead]

The Republicans are playing with fire and risk a lot of their political futures with this recall but with a lot to gain. Currently, they cannot win a standard general election so they use the recall in order to try and win. Imagine the next time a Republican becomes governor. This might start a very partisan cycle of attack and counterattacks.

Gray Davis is very unpopular but he has been counted out in the past countless times. I think that he will try very hard to convince all top Democrats to stay off the ballot with a promise that if the poll look bad as the recall election comes near, he will resign and allow the Lt. Governor to take over. He will mobilize labor, pro-choice, gays, minorities, environmentists and others in the liberal base. He will attack Issa, etc and paint the election in stark contrast as not a recall on him but a choice between him and the right wing extremists. He will spend whatever it takes and I would not count him out just yet. In a low-turnout election, it's a matter of getting your base out. Gray Davis is a good campaigner so it is not over.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: SuperTool
I think it's a terrible idea. We have elections for a reason. Davis won. I would have hoped that GOP have nominated Riordan.
I don't think we should have partisan recalls just because you can raise 1 million signatures. Considering we have 30 million people in CA, i don't think a tiny minority should have the right to distract a sitting governor by forcing him into a recall election whenever they please.

Duh, thats why there are two questions that will be on the ballot. Should the governer be recalled? and Who should the governer be?

If the first question doesnt have a majority vote, the second part doesnt matter.

I would be fine with it if there was a requirement that say 50% of registered voters turn out. But as it stands now, republicans are agitated by talk radio and Issa's campaign, and will turn out in large numbers, while the rest of the state hasn't been paying much attention to this mostly republican door to door campaign. So a very small minority of state voters can recall the governor, and place a Republican in the office, even if they couldn't do it in the regular election. Mostly it reinforces the view that Republicans don't respect democratic elections. They tried to impeach Clinton, even though majority of Americans were against it. Then we have 2000 election, and losing the popular vote. And now, we have this.