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Damn it's sad when a thread falls apart due to a pissing match
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RabidMongoose
Lifer
Actually I was more referring to the first line of your post. However, now I see that your second line was also an insult.
'Proud to be a Canadian!!'? I don't get it. What a horrible joke. 😉
shiner
Lifer
Infohawk.....Let me see if I can answer your questions.....
In that locked thread it seemed to me that CAD was being attacked because the people doing the attacking were not listening to what he had to say from his point of view. He posted a link to a thread about confidence in the office of the President and how if people didn't have confidence in the office how could they respect the person in office. A valid point to me....then again maybe that is just the way we see it. Personally I would have a hard time respecting something I had no confidence in. When CAD posted this he was attacked because others could not see how he could think that way. It just seems to me that once again someone was being attacked because their point of view was different. Instead of saying "ok that's the way you see it" it turned into a free for all against CAD.
The reverse has happened many times as well. The conservatives on this forum are just as guilty as the liberals. I myself have been an attack dog at times and refused to listen to the other side. I always feel like a dumbass afterwards when I do something like that because just trying to shout someone down isn't going to accomplish anything. Sure there are going to be times when emotions flare and things are said in the heat of the moment....that is understandable. What I don't understand is the mindset of those who seem to be rabid attack dogs and nothing more.
As for being objective and neutral. I can be objective, and try to be, but I can't be neutral. That would mean betraying my beliefs and that is something I just won't do. I can however listen to both sides and try to do that in when I enter a thread.
What I am trying to say right now is that we all need to get out of the gutter and try to return this place back to a higher level of discussion. Neither side gains anything as long as the arguments end up in the mud. When that happens all that occurs is people become further entrenched in what they already believe and won't even listen to a differing opinion. We should all listen to each other. You don't have to agree or even like what a person is saying, but you should recognize the fact that they have the right to say it without being yelled at like a dog that just pissed on the sofa.
In that locked thread it seemed to me that CAD was being attacked because the people doing the attacking were not listening to what he had to say from his point of view. He posted a link to a thread about confidence in the office of the President and how if people didn't have confidence in the office how could they respect the person in office. A valid point to me....then again maybe that is just the way we see it. Personally I would have a hard time respecting something I had no confidence in. When CAD posted this he was attacked because others could not see how he could think that way. It just seems to me that once again someone was being attacked because their point of view was different. Instead of saying "ok that's the way you see it" it turned into a free for all against CAD.
The reverse has happened many times as well. The conservatives on this forum are just as guilty as the liberals. I myself have been an attack dog at times and refused to listen to the other side. I always feel like a dumbass afterwards when I do something like that because just trying to shout someone down isn't going to accomplish anything. Sure there are going to be times when emotions flare and things are said in the heat of the moment....that is understandable. What I don't understand is the mindset of those who seem to be rabid attack dogs and nothing more.
As for being objective and neutral. I can be objective, and try to be, but I can't be neutral. That would mean betraying my beliefs and that is something I just won't do. I can however listen to both sides and try to do that in when I enter a thread.
What I am trying to say right now is that we all need to get out of the gutter and try to return this place back to a higher level of discussion. Neither side gains anything as long as the arguments end up in the mud. When that happens all that occurs is people become further entrenched in what they already believe and won't even listen to a differing opinion. We should all listen to each other. You don't have to agree or even like what a person is saying, but you should recognize the fact that they have the right to say it without being yelled at like a dog that just pissed on the sofa.
RabidMongoose
Lifer
I don't know, it seems like a pretty damn big joke. 'Proud to be a Canadian!!' ..I think I get it now. BWAHAHAHAHAHA hilarious!
Stunt, being that you like to think that you are an engineer (when in fact you are an engineering STUDENT) and seem to have a horrible ability with facts and numbers, maybe you should be a comedian now.
It is very interesting to see once your flaw was pointed out, you went on insulting.
DealMonkey
Lifer
I've tried to be as civil as I can - I'm sure some would disagree with that. 🙂 Sometimes though I have my pissy days, as we all do, and I tend to take it out on some social conservative around here. I apologize for that, but sometimes you guys just get me all riled up. You know who you are 😉 (*ahem* Corn *ahem*)
MonstaThrilla
Golden Member
Unfortunately, pleas have been made before to elevate the level of discourse here. None have ever worked.
My fellow inmates,
we may be jailed but very few of us will escape if we can't even get talk of a good escape plan going.
Yes I was dissapointed that thread went up in flames. I think the key is to not take offense when someone points out you're locked in your cell. After all, he is, too. 🙂
Empathy goes a long ways toward controlling your baser lashings. Try to put yourself in the other guy's shoes. (If you just snorted upon reading that, well, try harder heh).
The forum is entertainment but it's also other things: distributor of information, opener of minds (hopefully), inquisitor of convictions, tester of truths. All that is lost when the noise dominates the reason. Do you really want that chaos?
we may be jailed but very few of us will escape if we can't even get talk of a good escape plan going.
Yes I was dissapointed that thread went up in flames. I think the key is to not take offense when someone points out you're locked in your cell. After all, he is, too. 🙂
Empathy goes a long ways toward controlling your baser lashings. Try to put yourself in the other guy's shoes. (If you just snorted upon reading that, well, try harder heh).
The forum is entertainment but it's also other things: distributor of information, opener of minds (hopefully), inquisitor of convictions, tester of truths. All that is lost when the noise dominates the reason. Do you really want that chaos?
Fair enough.
I also think both sides should avoid personal attacks (flames). A lot of people enjoy it but it quickly veers nowhere and prevents serious discussions.
Just to be clear I don't think there's anything wrong with "bashing" people not on the board like celebrities or politicians. I also think a lot of time simple disagreement is mistaken as an attack and valid criticism is mistaken as "bashing."
Stunt
Diamond Member
"it seems like a pretty damn big joke. 'Proud to be a Canadian!!' ..I think I get it now. BWAHAHAHAHAHA hilarious!"
Again way to show your lack of humor, the bigger joke is the 'Proud to be American' sentiment at the present time...but that's just me.
"like to think that you are an engineer"
Nope not accredited yet...just finished third year of four. And nice of you to think i am horrid with numbers...I would be willing to go toe to toe against you in this area. The majority of my facts are correct and backed up by solid sources (linked). I am not perfect, i am human, 2 minor mistakes (which have since being corrected and original view/theory unchanged) in 100+ posts here since joining is nothing to be criticized over.
Again way to show your lack of humor, the bigger joke is the 'Proud to be American' sentiment at the present time...but that's just me.
"like to think that you are an engineer"
Nope not accredited yet...just finished third year of four. And nice of you to think i am horrid with numbers...I would be willing to go toe to toe against you in this area. The majority of my facts are correct and backed up by solid sources (linked). I am not perfect, i am human, 2 minor mistakes (which have since being corrected and original view/theory unchanged) in 100+ posts here since joining is nothing to be criticized over.
PingSpike
Lifer
When I first came here, I read posts from everyone and tried arguing with a lot of people when I disagreed with them. I didn't expect them to change their point of view, but I did expect them to acknowledge my points. I learned my lesson.
Now, I usually just scroll past the posts of certain forum members that are unwilling to hear others points of view that differ from their own, or to respond in an unbiased manner. If they don't want to hear what others have to say, I return the favor. Its much easier if I never read what they post to begin with. Do they sometimes have valid points to make? Probably. But even a broken clock is right twice a day and some one else probably had already made the point without pulling as much of an illogical skew onto it.
I mean, its pretty easy to figure out the meat of a lot of regulars' posts are without reading them. I just see so and so's username, think "some rant about liberals raping everyone's grandmother" and scroll to the next message. I don't get worked up over something that makes no sense and they can continue their illogical ranting about some liberal conspiracy or whatever. Everyone wins.
Now, I usually just scroll past the posts of certain forum members that are unwilling to hear others points of view that differ from their own, or to respond in an unbiased manner. If they don't want to hear what others have to say, I return the favor. Its much easier if I never read what they post to begin with. Do they sometimes have valid points to make? Probably. But even a broken clock is right twice a day and some one else probably had already made the point without pulling as much of an illogical skew onto it.
I mean, its pretty easy to figure out the meat of a lot of regulars' posts are without reading them. I just see so and so's username, think "some rant about liberals raping everyone's grandmother" and scroll to the next message. I don't get worked up over something that makes no sense and they can continue their illogical ranting about some liberal conspiracy or whatever. Everyone wins.
MidasKnight
Diamond Member
Excellent point. And I hope people here understand it. :beer:
Corn
Diamond Member
I don't think I would term myself as a "social conservative":
I'm for equal rights for all, including gay "marriage", so long as religious institutions are not required to perform these marriages against their will.
I believe it is futile to fight the "war on drugs". Decriminalizing personal consumption of street drugs is a good start--so long as driving/operating heavy machinery remains severly punished.
I'm personally opposed to abortion and if you've had an abortion, please dont tell me about it, because if you do I would never be able to not see you as anything other than a murderer........but it's your right to have one.
I believe that men's clubs should stay men's clubs, unless they decide for themselves to become inclusive of women. I hate Michigan winters because there's no place I can go smoke my cigars and "man act" and gossip without being sensitive to the ears and eyes of nosy up to no good females. [/soapbox] (All because I'm not man enough to insist on a man room in my own home. But since I remain unsuccessful at finding the location of where my wife has buried my balls out in the back yard, wtf am I supposed to do?)
Yeah, some level of liberal mixed with a few parts conservative. Whatever........Please don't call me a moderate though.
Stunt
Diamond Member
Moderate! 😉
jk, I'm the opposite, conservative and a few parts liberal.
But Canadian conservative is probably more along the lines of Right leaning Democrats.
Our conservative government is right of the current governing party and is proposing 2-3mill /yr on healthcare. Just shows how relatively left our system is...
Nowhere near as left as Scandinavian countries
jk, I'm the opposite, conservative and a few parts liberal.
But Canadian conservative is probably more along the lines of Right leaning Democrats.
Our conservative government is right of the current governing party and is proposing 2-3mill /yr on healthcare. Just shows how relatively left our system is...
Nowhere near as left as Scandinavian countries
RabidMongoose
Lifer
I am now proud to be Canadian! I am actually more proud than you since I have an extra exclamation mark.
You have said previously that you are a mechanical engineer. Add that as another mistake. Or perhaps it was your ego that was talking.
Let's not lie here. One of your mistakes was huge and very related to your original view/theory.
"I would be willing to go toe to toe against you in this area" - considering that you cannot recognize percentages or simple numbers, that would be hilarious. You really do think so highly of yourself.
Again, it is very interesting to see that once your flaw was pointed out, you went on insulting. Even more interesting is that you didn't comment on that...
Stunt
Diamond Member
"considering that you cannot recognize percentages or simple numbers"
this statement just shows the ignorance of your arguement. Telling an engineering student that he cannot recognize numbers or percentages is not only next to impossible but shows your opinion is thwarted to such extreme levels you are willing to create your own propoganda.
"One of your mistakes was huge"
It was a misread number, corrected, and if you think that is huge...i'd hate to think of how you describe certain areas of your body 😉
And no it did not take away from the principles of my arguement.
I'm tired of you bringing up my small typos as being a means to discredit my input.
If you opened your eyes in other threads and not pick on my tiny mistakes, you'd understand my input is valid, level headed, and constructive P&N material.
Appreciate if you could get a life and move on from a small mistake corrected asap...not like i dragged the mistake out or anything...
this statement just shows the ignorance of your arguement. Telling an engineering student that he cannot recognize numbers or percentages is not only next to impossible but shows your opinion is thwarted to such extreme levels you are willing to create your own propoganda.
"One of your mistakes was huge"
It was a misread number, corrected, and if you think that is huge...i'd hate to think of how you describe certain areas of your body 😉
And no it did not take away from the principles of my arguement.
I'm tired of you bringing up my small typos as being a means to discredit my input.
If you opened your eyes in other threads and not pick on my tiny mistakes, you'd understand my input is valid, level headed, and constructive P&N material.
Appreciate if you could get a life and move on from a small mistake corrected asap...not like i dragged the mistake out or anything...
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
I appreciate your having the heart to start this thread in the first place. It needs to be said (God knows I have been beating this drum a lot lately).
The thing is, all too many people here, and in the world at large, view one's political perspective as shorthand for whether he is good or bad. I cringe whenever I see the words "libs" and "neocons" here, because they tend to be indicative of a lot of pointless bickering. Guys, your political opponent need not be your arch enemy. You may have more common ground than you realize.
What I find even more disruptive, in many ways, is the constant, random partisan sniping that masquerades as "joking," because the poster doesn't even have the moral courage to admit he is trolling. Your nasty, categorical attack on "welfare-loving liberals" or "conservative morons" is not OK because it includes a smiley-face IMO. This kind of passive-aggressive viciousness is like the rhetorical version of a drive-by shooting.
Lastly, I think the worst kind of bandwidth-wasting that occurs here is attributable to a handful of posters who share the same childish, hate-thy-enemy attitude. Edge3D and Passions are two who come to mind. They seem bound and determined to start fights, and add nothing relevant to most discussions. Either grow up or move on, please, guys.
This can be a great place that inspires thoughtful discussion and discourse, or the online version of a grafitti-spattered tenament. It's all our choices, and we need to make this board a place we would want to live, IMO.
The thing is, all too many people here, and in the world at large, view one's political perspective as shorthand for whether he is good or bad. I cringe whenever I see the words "libs" and "neocons" here, because they tend to be indicative of a lot of pointless bickering. Guys, your political opponent need not be your arch enemy. You may have more common ground than you realize.
What I find even more disruptive, in many ways, is the constant, random partisan sniping that masquerades as "joking," because the poster doesn't even have the moral courage to admit he is trolling. Your nasty, categorical attack on "welfare-loving liberals" or "conservative morons" is not OK because it includes a smiley-face IMO. This kind of passive-aggressive viciousness is like the rhetorical version of a drive-by shooting.
Lastly, I think the worst kind of bandwidth-wasting that occurs here is attributable to a handful of posters who share the same childish, hate-thy-enemy attitude. Edge3D and Passions are two who come to mind. They seem bound and determined to start fights, and add nothing relevant to most discussions. Either grow up or move on, please, guys.
This can be a great place that inspires thoughtful discussion and discourse, or the online version of a grafitti-spattered tenament. It's all our choices, and we need to make this board a place we would want to live, IMO.
RabidMongoose
Lifer
Perhaps you should change your major. I've known many mathematically challenged engineering majors. You are probably one of those engineering majors that is very arrogant and thinks that his major is impossible for others to comprehend. You really need to get off your high horse.
No, I'm talking about how you said that Canada was not involved in the Korean War. The entire basis of one of your ridiculous comments was that the US was obligated to defend South Korea because it was involved in the Korean War. Canada was, too, and you decided to not apply the same warped logic to Canada.
You need to research facts before you post a comment based on an incorrect fact.
Again, it is very interesting to see that once your flaw was pointed out, you went on insulting. Even more interesting is that you didn't comment on that...
Stunt
Diamond Member
"Perhaps you should change your major. I've known many mathematically challenged engineering majors."
Well i am definately not mathematically challenged...if you looked at the other 99.9% of my posts involving numbers in the same thread, you'd understand this fact. Nice of you to nitpick though...again...get a life. And i am hardly surprised that you hang around with many academically challenged people.
Actually not wanting to start this conversation again...but...i was emphasizing economies of scale and that the canadian military is currently on 13 missions and cannot support all the other missions that the US happens to be on. Just because we supported your cold war campaign many years ago doesn't mean we are obligated to send troops to SK to replace the troops you are sending to your unilateral iraq campaign. And yes the economics of it all came under inspection...such as the reason for the large US economy (the ultimate reason for the ability for the large military) is the international community supporting yoru massive trade deficit ($500billion) and without support of smaller countries like my own, the US would not be able to invest in the large military that you have currently. It wasn't an unreasonable theory...but as the worlds only superpower, there are some campains you must go at alone when times are tight on behalf of the beliefs of not only your own.
"research facts before you post a comment based on an incorrect fact."
I did but i was answering questions left right and centre so i was typing quickly and missed a detail which was not realized for a short period after. I'm sorry this problem is such a problem in your life and i hope i don't make small errors in the future as im sure to get the same irrational response.
Thanks for dragging this out once again...when will you be satisfied?
Well i am definately not mathematically challenged...if you looked at the other 99.9% of my posts involving numbers in the same thread, you'd understand this fact. Nice of you to nitpick though...again...get a life. And i am hardly surprised that you hang around with many academically challenged people.
Actually not wanting to start this conversation again...but...i was emphasizing economies of scale and that the canadian military is currently on 13 missions and cannot support all the other missions that the US happens to be on. Just because we supported your cold war campaign many years ago doesn't mean we are obligated to send troops to SK to replace the troops you are sending to your unilateral iraq campaign. And yes the economics of it all came under inspection...such as the reason for the large US economy (the ultimate reason for the ability for the large military) is the international community supporting yoru massive trade deficit ($500billion) and without support of smaller countries like my own, the US would not be able to invest in the large military that you have currently. It wasn't an unreasonable theory...but as the worlds only superpower, there are some campains you must go at alone when times are tight on behalf of the beliefs of not only your own.
"research facts before you post a comment based on an incorrect fact."
I did but i was answering questions left right and centre so i was typing quickly and missed a detail which was not realized for a short period after. I'm sorry this problem is such a problem in your life and i hope i don't make small errors in the future as im sure to get the same irrational response.
Thanks for dragging this out once again...when will you be satisfied?
Stunt, you do make up a lot of lies and misrepresent facts. Just from the last couple of days:
On target
Sweden +3.3%
UK +1.4%
Off target
Germany -1.3%
Luxembourg -5.6%
France -9.5%
Italy -10.2%
Greece -10.7%
Netherlands -12.1%
Portugal -14%
Finland -16.5%
Belgium -22.9%
Austria -24.5%
Ireland -26.8%
Spain -33.3%
Denmark -37.8%
The principal combatants were North and South Korea, the United States, Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the People's Republic of China. Other nations sent troops under the aegis of the United Nations.
From the article you linked: $128.5 billion in GDP - 11% of state GDP
I don't know how you could have missed that 11% of state GDP.
You do not have a right to the US military because you trade with us. Using your own logic, because the US is responsible for 75% of Canada's trade, does the US have a right to Canada's healthcare system?
I don't even support the Iraq war, but it's not unilateral.
I really hope most of those were accidental. A few would be ok, but some of those are just too much. They don't seem like exaggerations either.
On target
Sweden +3.3%
UK +1.4%
Off target
Germany -1.3%
Luxembourg -5.6%
France -9.5%
Italy -10.2%
Greece -10.7%
Netherlands -12.1%
Portugal -14%
Finland -16.5%
Belgium -22.9%
Austria -24.5%
Ireland -26.8%
Spain -33.3%
Denmark -37.8%
The principal combatants were North and South Korea, the United States, Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the People's Republic of China. Other nations sent troops under the aegis of the United Nations.
From the article you linked: $128.5 billion in GDP - 11% of state GDP
I don't know how you could have missed that 11% of state GDP.
You do not have a right to the US military because you trade with us. Using your own logic, because the US is responsible for 75% of Canada's trade, does the US have a right to Canada's healthcare system?
I don't even support the Iraq war, but it's not unilateral.
I really hope most of those were accidental. A few would be ok, but some of those are just too much. They don't seem like exaggerations either.
RabidMongoose
Lifer
Your posts show otherwise.
Again, you fail to apply your own warped logic to Canada. Your error did significantly relate to your comment.
If I make an entire argument based off of an INCORRECT 'fact', then that would be a mistake. Too bad you refuse to admit it.
Perhaps when you realize your own faults.
Again, it is very interesting to see that once your flaw was pointed out, you went on insulting. Even more interesting is that you didn't comment on that...
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