Custom R9 290/290X Reviews/Availability/Listings thread

[thilanliyan]

91°/78° is not bad mid 80°'s is pretty common. It's not awesome, mind you, but not awful.

Look at the quiet mode though...108C?!

A lot worse than the reference card in that respect.

Also, isn't it funny that the card draws LESS power in Performance mode than in Quiet mode. I know it's because of the temp drop but still that feels weird. That is probably true of all cards with this kind of dual mode setup.

 

[Silverforce11]

Thats pretty awful results on the VRM temps TBH, even worse is its in an open setup where these open blowers have an edge.

Seems like all these custom cards cheap out on cooling VRM and this is bad because mining puts a heavier load on them much more than gaming.

Not sure why other review sites didnt even check vrm temps because thats crucial, welldone to [H]!

 

[blastingcap]

I just don't even. WOW. REALLY. An open air aftermarket card will be cooler in a good case? As opposed to an OPEN AIR test bench which REMOVES the need for air flow? Is that what you seriously just said? Did you think twice before you hit post?

Maybe we can do some basic physics/energy dissipation lessons here.

Can high end cases that promote strong airflow can actually cool better than open bench in some cases? Even with axial fan GPUs?

 

[Imouto]

Where did you get that number from? Exhaustive research, I'm sure. A good case will cool better than an open bench.

From the ComputerBase review done with a 800D chassis. Somehow they want people to believe that it isn't able to remove the heat generated by a single card. The card is running 16ºC higher with the fan 35% faster according to their testing.

A card that is just like any other PCB with a DCU cooler slapped on top of it.

Thermal problems that seem to be gone in the 290 Tri-x review.

Go figure.

 

[Silverforce11]

Its surprising because the DC2 has a beefy VRM heatsink on it and still temps go to 90C, ASUS must have cheap out on good VRMs for that to occur. I would definitely not recommend this card if its struggling already at stock and under gaming loads.

 

[Imouto]

Maybe we can do some basic physics/energy dissipation lessons here.

With a good case you're actively removing the hot air and avoiding it to be recycled by the component. Is that hard to understand?

 

[3DVagabond]

A well designed case will cool better than an open bench because the air is static with an open bench. The best part is it's the only number that can be looked at and isn't terrific. It therefore is the only number we will focus on. Let's see how much we can deflect conversation away from the performance numbers. Damage control in full effect.

How about we talk about the massive FPS crash in BF4 with 4xMSAA on the 780ti? I mean if we really want to just focus on a single number so much. This isn't at 4K either. It's @ 2560*1600. A reasonable res for a $700 card. Doesn't bode well, IMO, for future titles.

 

[blackened23]

LOL. It's like, you've never assembled a PC. You're so wrong on so many levels in stating that a case would cool an open air card better than a test bench. With a blower style cooler it doesn't matter. With aftermarket open air, it's actually downright hilarious that you're suggesting a closed chassis would cool it better. Fans cannot dissipate energy at 100% efficiency in an enclosure. It takes time to dissipate the energy emanating through the GPU open air cooler and DURING THIS TIME the ambient temperatures inside the case rise. The CPU temperatures rise. Even with tons of fans. Fans don't remove energy at 100% efficiency as it takes time and during that time the case temperatures will go up. On an open test bench, there is that much more room to dissipate energy without the need for fans. There's an entire freaking room for that energy to just flow freely in without the need for fans or anything. Hilarious. Just, hilarious.

The side effect of this is why reference coolers are more desirable for multi GPU setups. There are no fans in the world that will dissipate that much heat flowing into a case fast enough without the GPUs overheating with aftermarket variants, particularly with sandwiched tri and quad SLI setups. Anyone who has direct experience with sandwiched quad SLI knows this.

You just keep right on doing what you're doing though. Whatever.

 

[Zanovar]

The saphire 290 tri-x is what i have my eye on.but i have a feeling they are going to come out with a card with better cooler/sinks/phases ect.

 

[Zanovar]

LOL. It's like, you've never assembled a PC. You're so wrong on so many levels in stating that a case would cool an open air card better than a test bench. With a blower style cooler it doesn't matter. With aftermarket open air, it's actually downright hilarious that you're suggesting a closed chassis would cool it better. Fans cannot dissipate energy at 100% efficiency in an enclosure. It takes time to dissipate the energy emanating through the GPU open air cooler and DURING THIS TIME the ambient temperatures inside the case rise. The CPU temperatures rise. Even with tons of fans. Fans don't remove energy at 100% efficiency as it takes time and during that time the case temperatures will go up. On an open test bench, there is that much more room to dissipate energy without the need for fans. There's an entire freaking room for that energy to just flow freely in without the need for fans or anything. Hilarious. Just, hilarious.

The side effect of this is why reference coolers are more desirable for multi GPU setups. There are no fans in the world that will dissipate that much heat flowing into a case fast enough without the GPUs overheating with aftermarket variants, particularly with sandwiched tri and quad SLI setups. Anyone who has direct experience with sandwiched quad SLI knows this.

You just keep right on doing what you're doing though. Whatever.

Sweet jesus calm down you green goose.

 

[f1sherman]

Can high end cases that promote strong airflow can actually cool better than open bench in some cases? Even with axial fan GPUs?

That's entirely non trivial question.

my guesstimate:
I'll allow that some ungodly case/fan setup could achieve better results than open bench setup,
but it is my opinion that open bench setup is generally superior to 99.9% of closed cases, and especially when we are talking about 290/x/open-style-cooler.

COOL static air(3DVagabond) can easily be better thermal conductor than HOT running air

 

[3DVagabond]

LOL. It's like, you've never assembled a PC. You're so wrong on so many levels in stating that a case would cool an open air card better than a test bench. With a blower style cooler it doesn't matter. With aftermarket open air, it's actually downright hilarious that you're suggesting a closed chassis would cool it better. Fans cannot dissipate energy at 100% efficiency in an enclosure. It takes time to dissipate the energy emanating through the GPU open air cooler and DURING THIS TIME the ambient temperatures inside the case rise. The CPU temperatures rise. Even with tons of fans. Fans don't remove energy at 100% efficiency as it takes time and during that time the case temperatures will go up. On an open test bench, there is that much more room to dissipate energy without the need for fans. There's an entire freaking room for that energy to just flow freely in without the need for fans or anything. Hilarious. Just, hilarious.

The side effect of this is why reference coolers are more desirable for multi GPU setups. There are no fans in the world that will dissipate that much heat flowing into a case fast enough without the GPUs overheating with aftermarket variants, particularly with sandwiched tri and quad SLI setups. Anyone who has direct experience with sandwiched quad SLI knows this.

You just keep right on doing what you're doing though. Whatever.

All of this from the man who likes to accuse other people of getting personal.

I've seen fans used on open air benches because active cooling is always more efficient than static. Carry on with the nonsense though. There might actually be someone who's buying it.

BTW, looking for the SLI review in this thread, since you now have moved the goalposts to multi-GPU. Especially the "sandwiched quad SLI" you are now inventing as somehow being on topic.

 

[blastingcap]

That's entirely non trivial question.

my guesstimate:
I'll allow that some ungodly case/fan setup could achieve better results than open bench setup,
but it is my opinion that open bench setup is generally superior to 99.9% of closed cases, and especially when we are talking about 290/x/open-style-cooler.

COOL static air(3DVagabond) can easily be better thermal conductor than HOT running air

I think I agree... it's possible but unlikely that a case cools better than open bench for video cards. Because I'm thinking of a small wind tunnel, right? Imagine a small wind tunnel moving air at 20 mph, wouldn't that cool down the PC better than an open bench in a room with still air? But I also know that non-server PC fans aren't that strong--nowhere near 20 mph and especially with filters and stuff in the way. So in most PC cases there are inefficiencies in getting air in and out, which axial fans exacerbate, which is why Guru3D and Hardware.fr have seen that open-air video cards tend to heat up the guts of a PC more than reference-style blowers. In particular, most cases have non-removable rear fan filter/holes and this actually winds up making it harder to expel hot air. Ehume and other fan experts at OCN have done a lot of studies about fans and cooling.

I think you meant the other way around, that cool static air can be a better thermal conductor that hot air coming out of certain posters?

 

[Zanovar]

I think I agree... it's possible but unlikely that a case cools better than open bench for video cards. Because I'm thinking of a small wind tunnel, right? Imagine a small wind tunnel moving air at 20 mph, wouldn't that cool down the PC better than an open bench in a room with still air? But I also know that non-server PC fans aren't that strong--nowhere near 20 mph and especially with filters and stuff in the way.

I think you meant the other way around, that cool static air can be a better thermal conductor that hot air coming out of certain posters?

Haha miaow.

 

[3DVagabond]

That's entirely non trivial question.

my guesstimate:
I'll allow that some ungodly case/fan setup could achieve better results than open bench setup,
but it is my opinion that open bench setup is generally superior to 99.9% of closed cases, and especially when we are talking about 290/x/open-style-cooler.

COOL static air(3DVagabond) can easily be better thermal conductor than HOT running air

That's because 99.9% of cases suck.

Something like an NZXT 630 case will cool better than an open bench. Besides, there's really nothing wrong with the VRM temps on the DCII. I wouldn't recommend putting it in quiet mode and then O/C'ing it, but 100°, while not ideal, isn't excessive for VRM's.

Remember this?

This is the reference gtx 460 under load. VRM temp over 100°.

I posted this when it first appeared merely suggesting that people should consider whether or not they wanted to add voltage to their cards when O/C'ing. Of course I was called out for being bias. But, with that said, how many people overvolted and overclocked 460's to heaven and back? Heaps! No outcry then about VRM temps though from the faithful. Now, we have a card with VRM's @ (OMG!!!) 91° and the card simply sucks. *Give me a break.

The real story here is the overall gaming performance of this card and the effort to obfuscate that.

* Not directed at you, fisherman.

 

[Imouto]

Custom cards being actively cooled in a case behave way better than in an open bench just because the air restrained by the motherboard isn't recycled as much as it does in an open bench. At least if your case is any good and you know what you're doing. Half of the PC enthusiasts don't even know about positive or negative pressure.

Just take a look at a TwinFrozr cooler and tell me where the hot air would go after being pushed to the motherboard.



IMHO it will be recycled by the fans without using proper airflow.

 

[OCGuy]

Is someone suggesting that after waiting 3+ months to get an adequate cooling solution, a consumer should also have to worry about their case being good enough?


I prefer the old "plug in and it works" route that AMD usually takes.

 

[f1sherman]

@3DVagabond
You can't say "NZXT 630 case will cool better than an open bench". Why?

Because that might be true for the likes of say GTX 460, or maybe referent 6970.
But when you put in that case something like 290/X with open-style-cooler, that may not be the case any longer.

Because the shear amount of heat generated will poly defeat case fans (and Im guessing intake fans sooner more than exhaust)

 

[blackened23]

I love that he used a reference card in his example. There are no fans that can dissipate energy from a small case with an opened air card with 100% efficiency, the GPU outputs out heat faster than fans can remove it - especially when dealing with a 275+W TDP video card. Whereas an open room with an open test bench, christ I can't believe i'm explaining this. But the entire room is there to dissipate energy in. No fans required. Energy heat free to dissipate and move around the entire room. Meanwhile you have an small case in which even 6-8 fans cannot remove the heat faster than the GPU outputs it. Case temps rise. CPU temps rise. The amount of which is variable depending on size of case but 10C is the norm for non GPU components even with an EATX case with tons of fans. Removing energy (heat) with case fans takes time. Not 100% efficient.

Since he stated that he normally "takes notes" while watching AMD Mantle marketing videos in the Mantle thread (gotta wonder about that), maybe note taking would be in order the next time someone in his vicinity is building a PC in a chassis.

 

[Silverforce11]

My mITX setup runs cooler in a closed case with a large 240mm intake and high CFM 120mm exhaust on top. Was surprising, but not really once you put your hands above the exhaust, that is a lot of warm airflow that would be hanging around and recycled by the fans.

But generally most users cases aren't setup with such high pressure airflow, so open design cards work better outside cases for most.

 

[Imouto]

@3DVagabond
You can't say "NZXT 630 case will cool better than an open bench". Why?

Because that might be true for the likes of say GTX 460, or maybe referent 6970.
But when you put in that case something like 290/X with open-style-cooler, that may not be the case any longer.

Because the shear amount of heat generated will poly defeat case fans (and Im guessing intake fans sooner more than exhaust)

That's why usually opening the VGA bays even when not used and having a positive pressure airflow help open style coolers a lot since that will be the only place the case will exhaust hot air.

EDIT: On a side note I'm still puzzled about why case makers keep placing a HDD cage right in front the intake fans. Such dumbness.

 

[Zanovar]

Well i like to think i have positive pressure in my case.who am i kidding,without them screaming they wouldnt blow down a feather.due to lazyness i actually have them turned off 2x 140 in front 1x120 in top 1x140 out back.sli/xfre possibly.temps are fine btw

 

[Silverforce11]

That's why usually opening the VGA bays even when not used and having a positive pressure airflow help open style coolers a lot since that will be the only place the case will exhaust hot air.

EDIT: On a side note I'm still puzzled about why case makers keep placing a HDD cage right in front the intake fans. Such dumbness.

On smaller cases there's not much room to put them elsewhere, a lot of users have multiple big HDs that need to be in the case somewhere. It just highlights that most gamers cases have terrible airflow setup, and thats why these open air designs need to step up and offer good cooling for both core and vrms.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I'd rather continue to use my Mobo box, because it's free and it's hard to argue with that value.

Worked fine with reference 470s, worked fine with a TF3 7950, worked terribly with two TF3 7950s but was easily remedied with a fan on top of the cards, worked fine with the 780 GHz I had for the day I had it.

 

[3DVagabond]

I love that he used a reference card in his example. There are no fans that can dissipate energy from a small case with an opened air card with 100% efficiency, the GPU outputs out heat faster than fans can remove it - especially when dealing with a 275+W TDP video card. Whereas an open room with an open test bench, christ I can't believe i'm explaining this. But the entire room is there to dissipate energy in. No fans required. Energy heat free to dissipate and move around the entire room. Meanwhile you have an small case in which even 6-8 fans cannot remove the heat faster than the GPU outputs it. Case temps rise. CPU temps rise. The amount of which is variable depending on size of case but 10C is the norm for non GPU components even with an EATX case with tons of fans. Removing energy (heat) with case fans takes time. Not 100% efficient.

I do find it hilarious that he used a reference card in his example instead of an open air card. Good stuff. Pretty sure he's 100% aware that he's wrong as well.

The reference was talking about relative VRM temps. 101° and nobody was worried at all. Everyone was told to just rush right out, buy them, add some voltage, and O/C them to 5850 levels of performance. Overvolt, overclock, without any limits or concerns. What do you think the VRM temps on 460's were like with extra voltage and +20% overclocks? 91° for the 290X DCII though and it's a big deal. The fact that it easily matches 780ti performance? We won't discuss that.

I love how you insert things like 100% efficient, like anything is 100% efficient. Of course you know that.