Cubans told to shun foreigners

[StageLeft]

I went there a few years ago. We have family who go there every year or so. I didn't realize they weren't trading US dollars anymore...I personally am in no hurry to go back, because although our hotel was ok everything around us was poor. I don't like getting on a plane, driving by starving cows (yes the cows were fvcking starving!), then to some hotel that's too poor to have ice machines.

Also the commies stole some of our luggage on the way back.

Anyway, tourism is a big part of cuba and if they knock it down it's going to help the economy much less.

Castros BS is no worse then the sh1t we have had to put up with over the years here.....

You twit. What a dumb thing to say.

Yeah someone who runs away from their country becasue they don't like those in power are so great. Yeah
I can't stand bush but I am still here fighting.

Ignorant... it's far easier to step up and whine about the gov't in America than in Cuba. You're a big talker because you don't have jail hanging over your head for dissent.

And yes Cuba is a poor dump. I've been there and seen it with my own eyes.

me if my firsthand accounts completely differ with the popular opinion of mainstream america that cuba is a total sh1thole.

Apparently it differs with the people who're so desperate to leave that they're drowning and building rafts.

forigen policy of downplaying cuba as a thrid world sh1thole is outdated

It's a third world country.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Although, Cuba wasn't even close to "real" democratic reforms, it's arguable that moderates (plus the influence of foreign tourism/investment) were a significant force for change . . . albeit slow. Unfortunately, the increased belligerence by the Bush administration has produced a reflexive "hardening" of the regime.

You believe that without this perceived increase in belligerence by the Bush administration, the moderates would not have been checked by the regime? That's pretty specious and rather smacking of partisan bull. I've been reading your posts for years here and I know you're smarter than that.

Alas, I am limited by the fallacy of the unobserved. In essence, we will NEVER know if a Clinton-like approach to Cuba would have allowed snail's pace progress in Cuba. But clearly the Bush approach has coincided with a rather vicious backsliding. Naturally, correlation is not causation but it's hard to believe that vigorous trade relations along with loosening of "cultural and educational" exchanges would have coincided with a crackdown on moderates on the island.

"Partisan bull" would be to claim Castro is taking Cuba in the right direction. Although, US policy is a formidable drag on Cuban development, Cuba's primary liability is Castro and the hardliners. I will NEVER support the embargo b/c such policies invariably hurt the people FAR more than the powerful. But support for Castro by people like myself is getting much softer. He's definitely failing the "what have you done lately" test.

In sum, I still stand behind the notion that a "less antagonistic" Cuba policy might have been helpful over the past 4 years. Considering where we are today . . . is it really possible that things could be any worse? Granted, there was the whole "biological weapons" thing before Carter's visit.:roll:

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I went there a few years ago. We have family who go there every year or so. I didn't realize they weren't trading US dollars anymore...I personally am in no hurry to go back, because although our hotel was ok everything around us was poor. I don't like getting on a plane, driving by starving cows (yes the cows were fvcking starving!), then to some hotel that's too poor to have ice machines.

Also the commies stole some of our luggage on the way back.

Anyway, tourism is a big part of cuba and if they knock it down it's going to help the economy much less.

Castros BS is no worse then the sh1t we have had to put up with over the years here.....

You twit. What a dumb thing to say.

Yeah someone who runs away from their country becasue they don't like those in power are so great. Yeah
I can't stand bush but I am still here fighting.

Ignorant... it's far easier to step up and whine about the gov't in America than in Cuba. You're a big talker because you don't have jail hanging over your head for dissent.

And yes Cuba is a poor dump. I've been there and seen it with my own eyes.

me if my firsthand accounts completely differ with the popular opinion of mainstream america that cuba is a total sh1thole.

Apparently it differs with the people who're so desperate to leave that they're drowning and building rafts.

forigen policy of downplaying cuba as a thrid world sh1thole is outdated

It's a third world country.

Nice job totally destroying his argument.

 

[raildogg]

More US bashing and loving of enemies of America by Steeplerot. Never seen someone mindlessly ramble away at each and every post. It's just non-stop BS.

The Cuba bashing is about one of the stupidest things coming out of the us corprate media nowdays. *yawn*

Wait, bashing of Castro is not the same as bashing Cuba. In fact, if you looked beyond your radical leftist lenses, you would realize that Cuban Americans are at the forefront in pointing out the negative issues in Cuba. And I might add, they are loyal Bush supporters

Who needs a dying currency propped up by his would-be assasins and the rouge nation of the world?

Lafffffffffffff. The dollar is reviving and is certainly the worlds standard currency, among banks especially. Lame.

Yeah someone who runs away from their country becasue they don't like those in power are so great.

Well yeah ... lots of Iranians ran away when the Ayatollah took control of the nation, lots of Iraqs ran away during the Saddam regime and a whole lot of Cubans ran away during Castro. What is your point?

Nah, I have no interest to go to cuba I am just calling you on your BS agenda of trashing cuba.

Wow, so you know more about Cuba and the standard of living than a person who has lived there for 15 years? Maybe his agenda is the truth!

Forgive me if my firsthand accounts completely differ with the popular opinion of mainstream america that cuba is a total sh1thole. The world disagrees with you.:roll:

Communist China disagrees with us? Soviet Russia disagrees with us? Old Europe disagrees with us?

Well I'd rather have those countries disagree with us than agree. That means we're on the right side of history.

But sh1tting on them as they progress and you backed out already is prety lame.
keep an eye on this Ven. and Cuba are getting their sh1t together with Chinas help dumping on them
is just going to distance our neighbors even more in a crucial time.
us forigen policy of downplaying cuba as a thrid world sh1thole is outdated in a time when a new start and to let old wounds close, would serve us well, better then driving them into chinas arms

Helllooooo, they've been in Soviet Russia and Red China's corner since 1959, helllllooooo.

Venezuela is getting its sh!t together? :laugh:

Well it clearly is a third world country even by a liberal's standards, but you clearly are wayyyy over there to the extreme left.

Castros BS is no worse then the sh1t we have had to put up with over the years here.....except things have got BETTER for them.(even the life expectancy of Cubans is better then ours now)
Like I said bashing Cuba is outdated. Normalazation needs to start NOW.

Ut oh. Cuba has 10 million people. US has 300 million people and many of them immigrants from foreign nations. I don't believe it has better life expectancy than us, but even if did what does it prove? Yeah go treat your condition in a state-of-the-art hospital in Havana.

It is amazing for a country of 300 million to have one of the highest life expectancies in the world.

Ex-Cubans are the ones mainly doing the bashing. It's their country, let them handle the situation.

 

[Aimster]

Doesn't Cuba have one of the better health systems?

 

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Doesn't Cuba have one of the better health systems?

Getting medical attention is pretty easy now trying to get medicine is the tricky part.Malnutrition is a big problem though early in the 90's there was an outbreak of neuropathy and still the on going low birth weight babies.Abortion has become a common practice due to the malnutrition problems(low brith weight babies and etc..) and rampant prostitution(tourist love the women).

Modern equipment there isn't much of except at the foreign only hospitals which lead Dr. Hilda Molina (pioneered brain surgery and stem cell research in Cuba) to denounce the government.

Molina, a prestigious medical figure, who had a seat in Cuba's legislature, fell out with Castro. She disagreed with the conversion of the hospital where she worked to serve dollar-paying foreigners and had other ethical issues regarding her research.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Beowulf

Castro is always damn paranoid now the lucky few who get to work with tourist are going to suffer harder restrictions.How come the ppl have to suffer from all restrictions and no one in the government helps them out yet tourist pump cash into Castro and his revolutionary buddies pockets.I couldn't even see a hotel's inside last time I was in Varadero because I wasn't a tourist thats some bullsh!t.Anyways I'm still waiting for ppl like Oliver Stone and Robert Redford who seem to adore Cuba to actual do something for the Cuban cause instead of kiss Castro's rear end.Just another disgruntled Cuban-American in Miami,one day it'll be nice to be able to go back to a democratic Cuba.

Well, that's Socialism/Communism for you!

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
It's not paranoia if they are out to get you. Chavez too.
Good luck to Castro getting the new economy going, he has been kicking ass latley with the euro.
Who needs a dying currency propped up by his would-be assasins and the rouge nation of the world?
The Cuba bashing is about one of the stupidest things coming out of the us corprate media nowdays. *yawn*

Yeah, we should support MORE dictators around the world! What matters it if he Imprisons journalists for reporting the news? What difference does it make if Castro locks away PEACEFUL protesters for the crime of voicing their opinions? After all, he's the leader! And everyone knows that the leader OWNS the people!

Castro is not right, not good and not noble. He is a dictator and a man of immeasurable evil who perpetrates great crimes against people who deserve better.

If you have a few bucks, donate to the Victims of Communism Memorial Fund.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Beowulf

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
It's not paranoia if they are out to get you. Chavez too.
Good luck to Castro getting the new economy going, he has been kicking ass latley with the euro.

Ugh being from Cuba for 15 years I didn't see an economic system that actually worked other than to feed Castro.I don't maybe its just me but I didn't even get my medicine for my medical problems till I got to the USA.Oh and if you ever go to Cuba you'd know everyone wants Castro gone but now with the oil drilling and the oil reserves found by Varadero and Matanza it looks like the next succesor will have more money to play with so seems like repression is going to stay for sometime.Cuba bashing? I don't see anyone bash Cuba(not like it deserves) except the actual Cubans who aren't clueless about what is happening and the few refugees who made it.Hell even former revolutionary commandantes are living in Miami,FL cause they know Cuba is down the toliet.

Yeah someone who runs away from their country becasue they don't like those in power are so great. Yeah
I can't stand bush but I am still here fighting.

What was the word my cuban friends called them....nm it's pretty derogratory.

It's a whole lot different when you're in the United States and you have the FREEDOM to bash Bush all day everyday. In Communist countries like Cuba the people don't have that luxury. We can talk all day about fighting instead of running away, but there is a fundamental fact we HAVE to know and agree on: WE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE FULL MEANING OF LIVING UNDER A DICTATOR. We *CAN'T* understand it. We've never had it.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
While I have FAR more respect for what Castro has done for Cuba compared to what Bush has done to Americans . . . I think Castro has made some terrible moves over the past few years.

The US embargo is viewed internationally for just what it is . . . bullying by a bitter superpower incapable of exerting "influence" 100 miles away. The embargo isolates the US not Cuba even with BS like Helms Burton.

Although, Cuba wasn't even close to "real" democratic reforms, it's arguable that moderates (plus the influence of foreign tourism/investment) were a significant force for change . . . albeit slow. Unfortunately, the increased belligerence by the Bush administration has produced a reflexive "hardening" of the regime.

Beowulf, if I may assume, is just another bitter ex-pat. I'm not saying he doesn't have many reasons to be bitter but such sentiments tend to cloud judgment. The future of Cuba is best served by Cubans (both within and expats) assisting in a very very gradual transition towards a state approximating the most socialist of the Western European nations. The US could help but only after we have new leadership willing to come to terms with why MANY Cubans still support "The Revolution" despite Castro's failures.

The best "Help" we could offer would be to assassinate Castro and his flunkies and turn Cuba back over to its people.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Beowulf

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Cuba is not the dump they make it out to be in the media here.
Madre (and other good bits about SA)

Have you lived in Cuba come back after 15 years and lets share our memories.I find it funny anyone who hasn't lived in Cuba like me can tell me Cuba isn't a dump.

Nah, I have no interest to go to cuba I am just calling you on your BS agenda of trashing cuba.
I know many cubans and they have a very diffrent story then what you and the corprate media have (and a lot of cubans in miami). Forgive me if my firsthand accounts completely differ with the popular opinion of mainstream america that cuba is a total sh1thole. The world disagrees with you.
americans need to get off their anti-cuban trip, the cold war is over folks, wake up. :roll:

I'd love to hear from the cubans you know. I've known many and not *ONE* has ever praised Castro. They do, from what I have seen, tend to love their country and their families and friends there, but on the whole they want Castro GONE.

It's extraordinary what great CAPITALISTS and ENTREPRENEURS they become when the get to the US. Reminds me of Asians who come here and make great, profitable lives for themselves and their loved ones.

CONGRATULATIONS to those who ABANDON dictatorships. SHAME to those who try to justify them and prop them up.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
That's fine if you think your former home is a dump then don't go back.
But sh1tting on them as they progress and you backed out already is prety lame.
keep an eye on this Ven. and Cuba are getting their sh1t together with Chinas help dumping on them
is just going to distance our neighbors even more in a crucial time.
us forigen policy of downplaying cuba as a thrid world sh1thole is outdated in a time when a new start and to let old wounds close, would serve us well, better then driving them into chinas arms.

If they were "getting their sh1t together" they'd be DUMPING THE SCOURGE OF COMMUNISM. Cuba will never have it's sh1t together until Communism is DEAD.

Jason

 

[Colt45]

Viva la revolucion!

 

[Stunt]

Just got back from Cuba two days ago.
Beautiful country, and that's not just the tourist spots, my resort was in the countryside and was 1hr from the nearest town where the cubans have never seen tourists (resort is less than 2yrs old).
I had the opportunity to rent a car and take a look at the city. The people were great, very happy, friendly, outgoing and didnt impose for money or anything at all. The staff at the resort were the same way, they referred to us as their amigos and turned down tips from us. We would force them by tucking it in their pockets when not looking or on the counter as we left. The cubans were very well educated. The ones that took english in university (everyone goes to university) could speak fluently. I remember having this conversation with one of the cooks about how flaming the entertainment staff were (i wonder if castro sends all the gays to dance camp...hehe).
Anyways, they are proud of their communist society, they don't mind helping each other out, we noticed that the waiters volutarily put their tips in a jar so that all the employees, including dishwashers and landscapers got some of the tips.
They told this to us in private, when there was nobody around and in private areas in the wee hours of the morning. They were even taking a few shots at castro. So you know they were being honest.
They were well versed on current events too...like i asked them what they thought of bush and they were able to comment why with logical comments and arguements...similar to dem arguements (if you consider that logical...heh).

I think i could field a few questions about the cuban people, from my experiences.
Of course these will be far different from Beowulf who's dad was persecuted by castro's gov't, so of course there is a grudge there. But all in all he's the closest we are going to get from a cuban perspective.

Not to portray the country as good, but in general the cuban people know they are socialist and like it that way (similar to norway and sweden), they are not aware of technology and our lifestyle, but we showed them our digital cameras, ipods, etc. They were interested in learning and very quick to understand...you could definately tell they were all smart.
Again, they are a third world country, so the buildings were run down and little technology. But the banks in town had computers, internet, etc. I'd parallel it to a society where there is teleporters and even greater technology than we have now. Do we feel left out because we do not have these crazy technologies...no...we are content with what we have and survive on what we are given.
So conditions are poor as compared to us. But the healthcare is excellent, education is excellent, people are happy and enjoyable, so what more can you ask of them. That's my take anyways.

 

[Steeplerot]

Jeez, thanks they get all in a huff if foxnews doesent prep them on talking points first.
I was not saying Heil Castro but saying hurrah to Cuba for moving on.
You people that believe that tired Cuba stuff are holding a lot of people back becasue you drink that
US mixed kool-aid too much. Always looking to hate on communists even though they are doing their thing we are doing ours.
I am glad you all aren't MY neighbors.
Yoo hoo! the cold war is over folks the commies ARENT coming for your children :roll:

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Colt45
Viva la revolucion!

Hey colt, i was looking through my pics, and your comment reminded me of this one.
Revolucion

PS can somebody PM me a good image shrinking app so i can post bulk images without wasting hours converting the large sizes. Thanks.

 

[Steeplerot]

ugh that miami blue color wtf is with light pinks and light blues on building down there?
nuke em! /sarcasm

 

[Steeplerot]

http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/
totally free and just about as good as photoshop there Stunt.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/
totally free and just about as good as photoshop there Stunt.

Irfanview is good for batch conversions.

 

[Stunt]

Ok, the pics are converted, the quality is pretty bad, but i needed them small enough to fit on the free site hosting.
soooo...i'll post the site name when it's good.
I put all the pics from our tour of the small town i mentioned, a few of where i was, and some of my friends and i.
I figure what the hell, my mug is in my sig all the time...

 

[Stunt]

Here it is...Cuba Photos
Tell me what you think, again, sorry for the quality.

 

[Stunt]

So what?...everyone comes to bash communism and socialism...but don't want to learn about the country and the people?
Even for those what want to take this debate down to communism vs. democracy...
I'd be interested to hear your suggestions on another central american country with education, healthcare, and life expectancy close to cuba's standards. This is your chance to give examples of why a regime change is good for this island nation.

 

[illustri]

but they still need soap
and tourists still want sex

/having sex with someone who just wants to get clean
//is that ironing?

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Jeez, thanks they get all in a huff if foxnews doesent prep them on talking points first.
I was not saying Heil Castro but saying hurrah to Cuba for moving on.
You people that believe that tired Cuba stuff are holding a lot of people back becasue you drink that
US mixed kool-aid too much. Always looking to hate on communists even though they are doing their thing we are doing ours.
I am glad you all aren't MY neighbors.
Yoo hoo! the cold war is over folks the commies ARENT coming for your children :roll:

That's right, and after all, who cares about those who, to this very day, rot in Cuba's prisons for having disenting OPINIONS about their government? Nothing wrong with a little political persecution, eh, Rot?

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Stunt
So what?...everyone comes to bash communism and socialism...but don't want to learn about the country and the people?
Even for those what want to take this debate down to communism vs. democracy...
I'd be interested to hear your suggestions on another central american country with education, healthcare, and life expectancy close to cuba's standards. This is your chance to give examples of why a regime change is good for this island nation.

The debate isn't "Communism Vs. Democracy" it's about Communism Vs. Liberty, or if you want to get to the REAL root of it, Collectivism Vs. Individualism.

Your pictures are very nice, but they certainly don't tell the whole story, and neither does your several day vacation. It's plain enough to anyone who thinks a little bit that a tourist, on whom the country *greatly* depends for money, is treated a whole lot better and sees all the bright sides of the country than its native citizens.

Jason