Cuba Thread

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
It's retarded that the US embargo still exists.

I completely agree 100%.

Apparently 99% of what you hear about Cuba here is generated by right-wing extremists in Miami. I guess they have a right to be upset; I'm assuming that they are the former 'Bourgeoisie' of Cuba that had their mansions and such expropriated. That said, they are spreading FUD that is nonsense.

well said. I remember seeing an interview during the whole Elian (however you spell his name) where the one guy actually straight up admitted it. Basically said his family was wealthy landowners and he had to flee.

All I have to say is I would much rather live in Cuba than any other Central or South American country. Cuba has done wonders for itself compared to other countries. I mean look at Panama. Would you really want to live under the rule of drug lords put into power by the US government.

Well...they aren't there anymore. but that doesn't mean we won't put them back in the future...

For some reason, my dad is buying property in Panama (big eco-tourism potential)--but I still think it's a bad idea

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
LOL. Dude goes to the touristy parts of Cuba and formulates an impression. Feels strongly enough about it to post on a message board forum. Canadian public school system FTW!!!!

it's like defining Mexico based on Cancun (meaning the resort area where the tourists are confined from the real Cancun)

The Mexican government will not prevent you from going out and looking around at whatever you want to look at in Mexico. If tourists are "confined" in Cancun it is because they choose to confine themselves to Cancun.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
You know what amazes me the most about this thread? A bunch of beligerant and rude Americans that have never even been to Cuba have had the audacity to tell me what it's like there, and that I'm flat-out wrong. :thumbsdown:

I told you that you were wrong. I'm American, I've been there, and not just to some beach resort.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
It's retarded that the US embargo still exists.

I completely agree 100%.

Apparently 99% of what you hear about Cuba here is generated by right-wing extremists in Miami. I guess they have a right to be upset; I'm assuming that they are the former 'Bourgeoisie' of Cuba that had their mansions and such expropriated. That said, they are spreading FUD that is nonsense.

well said. I remember seeing an interview during the whole Elian (however you spell his name) where the one guy actually straight up admitted it. Basically said his family was wealthy landowners and he had to flee.

All I have to say is I would much rather live in Cuba than any other Central or South American country. Cuba has done wonders for itself compared to other countries. I mean look at Panama. Would you really want to live under the rule of drug lords put into power by the US government.

Well...they aren't there anymore. but that doesn't mean we won't put them back in the future...

For some reason, my dad is buying property in Panama (big eco-tourism potential)--but I still think it's a bad idea

I have some close friends who moved back to Panama from Canada, so it must be pretty nice. They claim to have lived quite lavishly there.

My one concern would be the heat. Cuba was *hot*. My guess is that Panama would be unbearably hot year-round.

 

[So]

Prediction: SickBeast will be posting a "North Korea Thread" about a year from now, singing the praises of how wonderful the people were in Pyongyang, and how great their lives are...

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
A cuban house (typical in Varadero)

Gorgeous. I soooo want a house like that. On a beach.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: zinfamous
anyhoo, I also agree that this likely belongs in P&N

This thread de-generated into P&N via a flame-war.

I agree it should *now* be there. I started this thread to talk about a vacation in Cuba so I figured it belonged here. :shrug;

Oh I know...just mentioning that anything posted that can (and certainly will) be construed as "commie propaganda" on these pages will invariably devolve into P&N material.

God forbid that someone who goes out of their borders to experience a different lifestyle and culture on their own, rather than depend on their media and politicos to "inform" them of the truth, share this with ATers and expect a rational discussion. :roll:

I'm not saying Cuba is roses and candy, just the general attitude you get here when someone with legitimate experience (no matter how limited) is immediately deemed inferior by those who clearly have no desire to ever leave their own sheltered existence. A forced opinion seems to hold greater value than one cultured by experience. (Weren't these people supposed to be confined in P&N initially? )

Just read my sig (Meltdown) for a nice summary of this point.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
They are ingenious though!

Those certainly aren't bathtubs.

They are good with cars there. Just about every car I saw was vintage from the 50's.

it's because there's an embargo. they HAVE to be good with cars or they'll have none.

That was a joke you'd get if you looked at the link.

Besides other countries than America make cars.

Japan.
China.
Germany.

to name a big set of 3.

I hate it when people try to blame the U.S. for Cuba's faults. Instead blame the fact that it's run by an old crooked regime that has temper tantrums.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: zinfamous
anyhoo, I also agree that this likely belongs in P&N

This thread de-generated into P&N via a flame-war.

I agree it should *now* be there. I started this thread to talk about a vacation in Cuba so I figured it belonged here. :shrug;

Oh I know...just mentioning that anything posted that can (and certainly will) be construed as "commie propaganda" on these pages will invariably devolve into P&N material.

God forbid that someone who goes out of their borders to experience a different lifestyle and culture on their own, rather than depend on their media and politicos to "inform" them of the truth, share this with ATers and expect a rational discussion. :roll:

I'm not saying Cuba is roses and candy, just the general attitude you get here when someone with legitimate experience (no matter how limited) is immediately deemed inferior by those who clearly have no desire to ever leave their own sheltered existence. A forced opinion seems to hold greater value than one cultured by experience. (Weren't these people supposed to be confined in P&N initially? )

Just read my sig (Meltdown) for a nice summary of this point.

Sorry but he knew exactly what he was going to get when he made the original post. In case you didn't read it:

The funny thing was, there was a show on local radio the day before I left talking about how evil Catro is, how many people he kills each year, and how Cuba had better quality of life than most of Europe did in the 50's (but not anymore - he said something along the lines of no Hatians being willing to move there). IMO they have equal quality of life to Europe TODAY.

Thoughts?

As he asked for there are now multiple pages of thoughts on the quality of life in Cuba.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: So
Prediction: SickBeast will be posting a "North Korea Thread" about a year from now, singing the praises of how wonderful the people were in Pyongyang, and how great their lives are...

So?

Actually I'm thinking about teaching in South Korea, so it's not that far outside the realm of possibility, although really I can't see North Korea being even the least bit bearable.

Cuba is actually nice, trust me. I have no reason to say that it's nicer than it is.

 

[lokiju]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: SickBeast
You know what amazes me the most about this thread? A bunch of beligerant and rude Americans that have never even been to Cuba have had the audacity to tell me what it's like there, and that I'm flat-out wrong. :thumbsdown:

because believe it or not many of us have talked with people that have ran from Cuba.

you went on a State sponsored trip. you did not go see teh majority of it.

Go to Florida and talk to people that have ran from cuba. they lived it and will tell you how bad it was.

I will believe what they say over someone that went on a trip for a short time.

I very much doubt that most of these people have ever spoken to a Cuban.

I have countless times, Miami is now New Cuba where all Cubans that escape Cuba go to be free. Go spend a week in Miami (just not the touristy only parts) and you'll see how the majority of people there are Cuban. There IS a reason they all illegally flee Cuba and illegally immigrate to America. Are you trying to deny that they do this?

What is your rationalization for soo many thousands and thousands of Cubans illegally fleeing Cuba to come to America? Do you think they're all criminals trying to hide from Cuban law enforcement?

I see how there are all these Cuban ghettos in Miami and have even asked Cubans I've worked with how other Cubans can stand to live like this, the answer is always the same, because it's still much better than living in Cuba.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Really and truly, if I had the chance I would be very tempted to immigrate there.

I find that quite ironic considering the number of people who die every year trying to escape that prison. People who visit love it, but people who live there have a different opinion.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Seeing as the US destabilized Iraq to begin with, you guys had better well clean up the mess.

Al Quaeda and the Taliban were effectively broadcasting that they were going to take over Iraq. We had to get there first.

All of the current instability is simply the insurgents attacking the American troops. Get rid of the troops and Iraq will settle down.

:laugh: hahahaha

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: lokiju

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: SickBeast
You know what amazes me the most about this thread? A bunch of beligerant and rude Americans that have never even been to Cuba have had the audacity to tell me what it's like there, and that I'm flat-out wrong. :thumbsdown:

because believe it or not many of us have talked with people that have ran from Cuba.

you went on a State sponsored trip. you did not go see teh majority of it.

Go to Florida and talk to people that have ran from cuba. they lived it and will tell you how bad it was.

I will believe what they say over someone that went on a trip for a short time.

I very much doubt that most of these people have ever spoken to a Cuban.

I have countless times, Miami is now New Cuba where all Cubans that escape Cuba go to be free. Go spend a week in Miami (just not the touristy only parts) and you'll see how the majority of people there are Cuban. There IS a reason they all illegally flee Cuba and illegally immigrate to America. Are you trying to deny that they do this?

What is your rationalization for soo many thousands and thousands of Cubans illegally fleeing Cuba to come to America? Do you think they're all criminals trying to hide from Cuban law enforcement?

I see how there are all these Cuban ghettos in Miami and have even asked Cubans I've worked with how other Cubans can stand to live like this, the answer is always the same, because it's still much better than living in Cuba.

You know, Cubans aren't allowed to leave the island, and if those Miami residents were to ever try to return to Cuba they would surely be executed or imprisoned for a very long time. So, they can't go back. I have a feeling they see the US as some sort of paradise because of what they see in the media. Nobody in Cuba starves; it can't be *that* bad for them.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Seeing as the US destabilized Iraq to begin with, you guys had better well clean up the mess.

Al Quaeda and the Taliban were effectively broadcasting that they were going to take over Iraq. We had to get there first.

All of the current instability is simply the insurgents attacking the American troops. Get rid of the troops and Iraq will settle down.

:laugh: hahahaha

You didn't even refute either of my points and you have the audacity to laugh at me? :roll:

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Seeing as the US destabilized Iraq to begin with, you guys had better well clean up the mess.

Al Quaeda and the Taliban were effectively broadcasting that they were going to take over Iraq. We had to get there first.

All of the current instability is simply the insurgents attacking the American troops. Get rid of the troops and Iraq will settle down.

:laugh: hahahaha

You didn't even refute either of my points and you have the audacity to laugh at me? :roll:

You are drawing flawed conclusions. I'm helping to redirect your logic path onto the correct course.

Al Quaeda / Taliban overthrowing Iraq: Chaos in the middle east for many decades, more terrorist attacks world wide, Iraq turns into a central hub for terrorists like Afghanistan used to be.

USA + other countries finding multiple justifications (including a report declassified July of last year stating an official number of 500+ WMD's recovered in Iraq violating UN sanctions) for invading Iraq: Chaos in the middle east for maybe a decade before Iraq can support and defend their own way of life, horrific monster of a dictator gone and no longer raping countries around them for his own personal gain, the majority of the free world continuing to chase an admittedly-unbeatable hostile and violent mindset away from innocent people throughout the world and attempting to secure a more safe future for everyone other than said hostile and violent mindsets, blah blah blah.

But you just go right ahead and continue to believe what you choose to believe.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Seeing as the US destabilized Iraq to begin with, you guys had better well clean up the mess.

Al Quaeda and the Taliban were effectively broadcasting that they were going to take over Iraq. We had to get there first.

All of the current instability is simply the insurgents attacking the American troops. Get rid of the troops and Iraq will settle down.

:laugh: hahahaha

You didn't even refute either of my points and you have the audacity to laugh at me? :roll:

You are drawing flawed conclusions. I'm helping to redirect your logic path onto the correct course.

Al Quaeda / Taliban overthrowing Iraq: Chaos in the middle east for many decades, more terrorist attacks world wide, Iraq turns into a central hub for terrorists like Afghanistan used to be.

USA + other countries finding multiple justifications (including a report declassified July of last year stating an official number of 500+ WMD's recovered in Iraq violating UN sanctions) for invading Iraq: Chaos in the middle east for maybe a decade before Iraq can support and defend their own way of life, horrific monster of a dictator gone and no longer raping countries around them for his own personal gain, blah blah blah.

But you just go right ahead and continue to believe what you choose to believe.

At least I'm not coming up with wacko prophecies. Seriously, get help.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
They are ingenious though!

Stupid Cubans should just move to the nice touristy neighborhoods and get real jobs...

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
You didn't even refute either of my points and you have the audacity to laugh at me? :roll:

Originally posted by: SickBeast
At least I'm not coming up with wacko prophecies. Seriously, get help.

Just shot yourself in the foot.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: SickBeastYou know, Cubans aren't allowed to leave the island, and if those Miami residents were to ever try to return to Cuba they would surely be executed or imprisoned for a very long time. So, they can't go back. I have a feeling they see the US as some sort of paradise because of what they see in the media. Nobody in Cuba starves; it can't be *that* bad for them.

wow.

rarely am i shocked at how idiotic a post is. but this one...really i am speechless. just amazing.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: SickBeastYou know, Cubans aren't allowed to leave the island, and if those Miami residents were to ever try to return to Cuba they would surely be executed or imprisoned for a very long time. So, they can't go back. I have a feeling they see the US as some sort of paradise because of what they see in the media. Nobody in Cuba starves; it can't be *that* bad for them.

wow.

rarely am i shocked at how idiotic a post is. but this one...really i am speechless. just amazing.

Care to point out what was wrong with it instead of insulting me like the rest of your clan?

All Cubans are given food rations by the government there. They don't go hungry. Like I said, I'm interested in knowing *why* they want to leave Cuba. You say you've talked to them and seen their ghettoes but you have yet to explain why they go to Miami.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: SickBeast
You didn't even refute either of my points and you have the audacity to laugh at me? :roll:

Originally posted by: SickBeast
At least I'm not coming up with wacko prophecies. Seriously, get help.

Just shot yourself in the foot.

Well, I gave him two chances to actually refute my point instead of laughing at me and he couldn't. It's hard to have rational discussion with people who throw insults instead of engaging in a dialogue.

 

[Nik]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba

There's a good start for you, SickBeast. It's a lot of material to go through if you're just interested in arguing on a forum. However, if you're legitimately interested in the answers to the questions you ask, start reading and clicking supporting links.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: SickBeastYou know, Cubans aren't allowed to leave the island, and if those Miami residents were to ever try to return to Cuba they would surely be executed or imprisoned for a very long time. So, they can't go back. I have a feeling they see the US as some sort of paradise because of what they see in the media. Nobody in Cuba starves; it can't be *that* bad for them.

wow.

rarely am i shocked at how idiotic a post is. but this one...really i am speechless. just amazing.

Care to point out what was wrong with it instead of insulting me like the rest of your clan?

All Cubans are given food rations by the government there. They don't go hungry. Like I said, I'm interested in knowing *why* they want to leave Cuba. You say you've talked to them and seen their ghettoes but you have yet to explain why they go to Miami.

You have been told again and again why they leave. Because the economic and political situation in Cuba sucks badly.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: SickBeast
You didn't even refute either of my points and you have the audacity to laugh at me? :roll:

Originally posted by: SickBeast
At least I'm not coming up with wacko prophecies. Seriously, get help.

Just shot yourself in the foot.

Well, I gave him two chances to actually refute my point instead of laughing at me and he couldn't. It's hard to have rational discussion with people who throw insults instead of engaging in a dialogue.

I don't recall insulting you. You do not seem to hold yourself to the same standards that you hold others to, either.

If you want to talk about this maturely, then do it. If you want someone to back up their arguments, then pony up with your own supporting information that you draw your conclusions from instead of just jumping around the thread barking orders at folks.

Thank you.