Here's a 'quality of life' link
Cuba ranked 108th overall, but I think the numbers are a little skewed. They were given "0" for freedom. I understand they have less freedom than people living under a democracy, but really, they can pretty much do what they want when they're not at work.
They scored very high on environment and culture, which is what I experienced and I suppose what I base most of my opinions on.
Cuba ranked 108th overall, but I think the numbers are a little skewed. They were given "0" for freedom. I understand they have less freedom than people living under a democracy, but really, they can pretty much do what they want when they're not at work.
They scored very high on environment and culture, which is what I experienced and I suppose what I base most of my opinions on.
dug777
Lifer
- Oct 13, 2004
- 24,778
- 4
- 0
Originally posted by: SickBeast
I scuba dived over a coral reef and it was absolutely incredible. We were out on the catamaran...they anchored it then threw some sort of food into the water. We jumped in and there had to be 10,000 fish in our immediate vicinity, including a barracuda that looked to be around 3' long. The water was about as warm as a warm bath.Originally posted by: Wapp
Originally posted by: dug777
I've heard Cuban scuba diving is out of this world
All the guys I worked with when I was down at Guantanamo were either Master Divers or close to becoming one. All they did was work, dive, sleep.
Dayum
There was Cuban rum on teh boat too. They even let me take the captain's helm for a photo op. :beer:Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: SickBeast
I scuba dived over a coral reef and it was absolutely incredible. We were out on the catamaran...they anchored it then threw some sort of food into the water. We jumped in and there had to be 10,000 fish in our immediate vicinity, including a barracuda that looked to be around 3' long. The water was about as warm as a warm bath.Originally posted by: Wapp
Originally posted by: dug777
I've heard Cuban scuba diving is out of this world
All the guys I worked with when I was down at Guantanamo were either Master Divers or close to becoming one. All they did was work, dive, sleep.
Dayum
dug777
Lifer
- Oct 13, 2004
- 24,778
- 4
- 0
Originally posted by: SickBeast
There was Cuban rum on teh boat too. They even let me take the captain's helm for a photo op. :beer:Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: SickBeast
I scuba dived over a coral reef and it was absolutely incredible. We were out on the catamaran...they anchored it then threw some sort of food into the water. We jumped in and there had to be 10,000 fish in our immediate vicinity, including a barracuda that looked to be around 3' long. The water was about as warm as a warm bath.Originally posted by: Wapp
Originally posted by: dug777
I've heard Cuban scuba diving is out of this world
All the guys I worked with when I was down at Guantanamo were either Master Divers or close to becoming one. All they did was work, dive, sleep.
Dayum
Sounds like an awesome trip. One day
SickBeast, I have to say, I'm honestly saddened by what you've posted in this thread. You usually show a fairly level head and rationality, but its obvious that the Cuban government has succeeded in convincing you of what they aimed to. Yes, I'm sure Cuba isn't as bad as its been painted by our government, but don't be naive enough to think that what you saw and heard about isn't exactly what they want you to think. And you actually resort to the same thing you are speaking against. You say you don't live nor will live in the US and say how bad it is to live there, but then you get mad when people who have lived and do live in Cuba say its not what it seems. By saying it'd be better to live in Cuba or any communist country would be better than living in the US is absurd. You should check out China and North Korea and then try to convince us how much better they have it than people in America. They only give a facade of being well off, but most of the people living in those countries do not live well at all.
I can understand your disdain for America, our government has taken one extreme, by making it seem like our way is the only right way (or so you're led to believe, I'm not saying its wrong or right), but you're making a mistake if because of that you decide to take the opposite extreme. I think you'll find that on most issues, the reality is not at either extreme, but rather in the middle.
I can understand your disdain for America, our government has taken one extreme, by making it seem like our way is the only right way (or so you're led to believe, I'm not saying its wrong or right), but you're making a mistake if because of that you decide to take the opposite extreme. I think you'll find that on most issues, the reality is not at either extreme, but rather in the middle.
Lemme get this straight.
1. You've never lived in the US, yet you say you'd rather live under communism than Bush.
2. You get your information about the US from Vietnam war veterans who obviously have a less than positive view of America.
3. You went on a bunch of state sponsored tours with state sponsored people who are paid to make your trip as beautiful as possible and believe that you have seen the "real" Cuba. Listen bud, try going there for humanitarian work rather than a vacation. You're a typical Westerner of the worst kind: an ignorant, naive one, who believes anything you read or hear.
4. You take landscaping and colorful housing as quality of life determinants.
5. This thread is sooo obviously biased to the left from the beginning...I don't remember Clinton doing any business with Cuba.
6. You undermine the internationally understood fact that democratic nations have never gone to war with one another, and are generally better places to live than any other form of government by stating that "I think the numbers are a little skewed" (a laughable comment given your propensity to defend Cuba and rag on the right, not to mention your obvious lack of basic political science principles regarding governments and quality of live determinants (see # 4)).
...add as we go?
1. You've never lived in the US, yet you say you'd rather live under communism than Bush.
2. You get your information about the US from Vietnam war veterans who obviously have a less than positive view of America.
3. You went on a bunch of state sponsored tours with state sponsored people who are paid to make your trip as beautiful as possible and believe that you have seen the "real" Cuba. Listen bud, try going there for humanitarian work rather than a vacation. You're a typical Westerner of the worst kind: an ignorant, naive one, who believes anything you read or hear.
4. You take landscaping and colorful housing as quality of life determinants.
5. This thread is sooo obviously biased to the left from the beginning...I don't remember Clinton doing any business with Cuba.
6. You undermine the internationally understood fact that democratic nations have never gone to war with one another, and are generally better places to live than any other form of government by stating that "I think the numbers are a little skewed" (a laughable comment given your propensity to defend Cuba and rag on the right, not to mention your obvious lack of basic political science principles regarding governments and quality of live determinants (see # 4)).
...add as we go?
Well, I appreciate your response. Thank-you for not insulting me as the others did.
I'm certain that Cuba has its problems. I just wanted to start the thread to share how shocked I was to see the place as I saw it.
I agree that North Korea and Iran would not be good spots for me to live, and I *would* chose the US over them. There are also some messed up democracies where I would never want to live either though. Really and truly, I don't think it comes down to 'democracy' or 'communism' equating to freedom or quality of life. I think it depends on the individual nation and the conscience of the people running them. Right now in the US, you guys have horrible people with vested interests in your military industry running the show; it's sad.
I don't completely distain America. Growing up, you guys always seemed like 'good neighbours' and generally friendly folks. It's been the past 6+ years that have completely trashed your image to foreigners.
I agree with you on the 'middle ground' comment. I suppose my statement about preferring life under communism to life under Bush was a knee-jerk response to thread-crapping. I apologize if I have offended you. :beer:
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Well, I appreciate your response. Thank-you for not insulting me as the others did.
I'm certain that Cuba has its problems. I just wanted to start the thread to share how shocked I was to see the place as I saw it.
I agree that North Korea and Iran would not be good spots for me to live, and I *would* chose the US over them. There are also some messed up democracies where I would never want to live either though. Really and truly, I don't think it comes down to 'democracy' or 'communism' equating to freedom or quality of life. I think it depends on the individual nation and the conscience of the people running them. Right now in the US, you guys have horrible people with vested interests in your military industry running the show; it's sad.
I don't completely distain America. Growing up, you guys always seemed like 'good neighbours' and generally friendly folks. It's been the past 6+ years that have completely trashed your image to foreigners.
I agree with you on the 'middle ground' comment. I suppose my statement about preferring life under communism to life under Bush was a knee-jerk response to thread-crapping. I apologize if I have offended you. :beer:
<-------- TAKE IT TO P&N COMMIE
I've visited both the US and Cuba. Based on how the people treated me alone I would rather be in Cuba.
Not entirely. I lived with a Texan while I was in university. He now lives in Japan and didn't care much for the US. I've travelled the US fairly extensively, and really, the culture in the states just isn't for me.
I'm actually basing my opinion of the country on first hand experience, not on what I 'read or hear'. We travelled by ourselves on local transit into the city near our hotel; there were no tour guides that day. Sounds to me like you're the pot trying to call the kettle black. Have you been to Cuba?
No. I said that the people seemed healthy. They were well-educated. The cities were very clean and felt safe.
Well, you've just shown me how far to the 'right' US politics are. You ban trade with a nation based on their political affiliation.
Have two communist nations ever gone to war with one another? I would assume that having a common viewpoint with a nation would generally deter war.
I agree that democracies tend to have a higher quality of life, although I did speak with a Russian woman who told me she preferred life there when the country was doing well under communism.
I posted the link to the quality of life survey. My main issue was with them assigning a freedom score of "0". If the entire island were incarcerated, that would be my definition of "0" freedom.
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
- 0
2001. I saw Greece, Italy, France, Spain, and Switzerland. Greece and Spain were both very comparable to Cuba. Switzerland, Italy, and France, perhaps not.
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Well, I appreciate your response. Thank-you for not insulting me as the others did.
I'm certain that Cuba has its problems. I just wanted to start the thread to share how shocked I was to see the place as I saw it.
I agree that North Korea and Iran would not be good spots for me to live, and I *would* chose the US over them. There are also some messed up democracies where I would never want to live either though. Really and truly, I don't think it comes down to 'democracy' or 'communism' equating to freedom or quality of life. I think it depends on the individual nation and the conscience of the people running them. Right now in the US, you guys have horrible people with vested interests in your military industry running the show; it's sad.
I don't completely distain America. Growing up, you guys always seemed like 'good neighbours' and generally friendly folks. It's been the past 6+ years that have completely trashed your image to foreigners.
I agree with you on the 'middle ground' comment. I suppose my statement about preferring life under communism to life under Bush was a knee-jerk response to thread-crapping. I apologize if I have offended you. :beer:
Now that's the type of response I was expecting.
Its true, America has its problems, no one knows that more than the people who live here. I think everywhere in the world has pretty significant issues to deal with (even Canada, where I seem to notice quite a few people remark about the health care system). I think it was just some of the things you said, and how strongly some people feel about them, and it devolved from there.
Its interesting how you point out how the tourist parts of Cuba are better than the tourist parts of America. I think that might actually be a tip, especially when you consider the state of Cuba. Its the old, pull the wool over people's eyes and convince them that things are better than they are. Works like a charm time after time (and dictatorships tend to be pretty good at using it).
It does sound like what you did see was quite nice and sounds like it would've been a fun trip.
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
- 0
Spain is like Cuba in language only, hombre. And you are comparing modern Greece with a corrupt dictatorship under the cosh of embargoes and political exile? Seriously?
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,702
- 46,448
- 136
Civil and political liberty ratings by country
US score: 6
Cuba score:0
(scale is 0 to 6)
Ecnomic Freedom
Almost dead last ahead of North Korea
Not to mention a national GDP equal to that of the state of Rhode Island
http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/Regions/Americas/Cuba
Sounds like a splendid place to live, perhaps you should apply for citizenship.
Just remember to keep you yap shut.
US score: 6
Cuba score:0
(scale is 0 to 6)
Ecnomic Freedom
Almost dead last ahead of North Korea
Not to mention a national GDP equal to that of the state of Rhode Island
http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/Regions/Americas/Cuba
Sounds like a splendid place to live, perhaps you should apply for citizenship.
Just remember to keep you yap shut.
Fine, you've convinced me. There's no way that all of Cuba is nicer than even the touristy parts of the US. It was a fun trip, I just didn't like having to pay Castro $25 to leave the island (and I am wary of giving him my dollars).Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Well, I appreciate your response. Thank-you for not insulting me as the others did.
I'm certain that Cuba has its problems. I just wanted to start the thread to share how shocked I was to see the place as I saw it.
I agree that North Korea and Iran would not be good spots for me to live, and I *would* chose the US over them. There are also some messed up democracies where I would never want to live either though. Really and truly, I don't think it comes down to 'democracy' or 'communism' equating to freedom or quality of life. I think it depends on the individual nation and the conscience of the people running them. Right now in the US, you guys have horrible people with vested interests in your military industry running the show; it's sad.
I don't completely distain America. Growing up, you guys always seemed like 'good neighbours' and generally friendly folks. It's been the past 6+ years that have completely trashed your image to foreigners.
I agree with you on the 'middle ground' comment. I suppose my statement about preferring life under communism to life under Bush was a knee-jerk response to thread-crapping. I apologize if I have offended you. :beer:
Now that's the type of response I was expecting.
Its true, America has its problems, no one knows that more than the people who live here. I think everywhere in the world has pretty significant issues to deal with (even Canada, where I seem to notice quite a few people remark about the health care system). I think it was just some of the things you said, and how strongly some people feel about them, and it devolved from there.
Its interesting how you point out how the tourist parts of Cuba are better than the tourist parts of America. I think that might actually be a tip, especially when you consider the state of Cuba. Its the old, pull the wool over people's eyes and convince them that things are better than they are. Works like a charm time after time (and dictatorships tend to be pretty good at using it).
It does sound like what you did see was quite nice and sounds like it would've been a fun trip.
Your comment on people feeling strongly is an understatement.
I'm just giving my honest opinion. I have no vested interest in Cuba (nor would it be possible for me to).
if it was such a nice paradise why are people risking their lives to come to the US in floating furniture?
if it was such a nice paradise why are the elite of their baseball stars, the ones living up the rich life in Cuba, top of the paradise chain trying to defect to the US every chance they can get?
People coming back from China always tell me how modern it is, how nice it is, how wonderful it is to live there. They visited the nice cities and lived in posh hotels that 95% of the Chinese people can't afford to live in. They lived in or visited sections of China that the government keeps nice or is newly designed to attract foreign customers and foreign investment. The rest of China is ghetto. I lived for close to 3 months in China living in the ghetto areas where there is garbage all over the place, dead fishes floating along the river where people still fish, children taking a dump on the sides of roads, little brick huts for housing where everyone has to go to a local well to get water. All the water is undrinkable unless you enjoy diarrhea. And you're never sure if you order something with meat in it, if the animal was long dead before they cut and cooked the meat and what did it die of, sickness? natural causes? blade? The area I lived was definitely not for tourists but isn't that far away from the big cities.
Next time you visit Cuba, learn the local language and venture outside the tourist areas. Visit places not on tourist maps of places to go. It may or may not be the wonderful place you saw.
if it was such a nice paradise why are the elite of their baseball stars, the ones living up the rich life in Cuba, top of the paradise chain trying to defect to the US every chance they can get?
People coming back from China always tell me how modern it is, how nice it is, how wonderful it is to live there. They visited the nice cities and lived in posh hotels that 95% of the Chinese people can't afford to live in. They lived in or visited sections of China that the government keeps nice or is newly designed to attract foreign customers and foreign investment. The rest of China is ghetto. I lived for close to 3 months in China living in the ghetto areas where there is garbage all over the place, dead fishes floating along the river where people still fish, children taking a dump on the sides of roads, little brick huts for housing where everyone has to go to a local well to get water. All the water is undrinkable unless you enjoy diarrhea. And you're never sure if you order something with meat in it, if the animal was long dead before they cut and cooked the meat and what did it die of, sickness? natural causes? blade? The area I lived was definitely not for tourists but isn't that far away from the big cities.
Next time you visit Cuba, learn the local language and venture outside the tourist areas. Visit places not on tourist maps of places to go. It may or may not be the wonderful place you saw.
The tourist areas are nice, the beaches are terrific; this makes sense as Cuba has focused on developing its tourism, which is now the largest part of its GDP. Havana is a shithole and very depressing, and while there's a few things that are good about Castro's socialism (education, healthcare), there's also many that are not so good (rationing, housing, standard of living, political persecution).
Basing your opinion of the whole country on having visited a tourist beach in Cuba is pretty lame, about as lame as the trade embargo the US has perpetuated.
Basing your opinion of the whole country on having visited a tourist beach in Cuba is pretty lame, about as lame as the trade embargo the US has perpetuated.
Here's another opinion of Cuba...I may not be so far off
He also talks about how good their education and health care systems are, among other things.
MikeyIs4Dcats
Lifer
- Nov 5, 2001
- 18,366
- 3
- 0
if Cuba is so great, why do people try to escape it by risking their lives trying to sail a bathtub 90 miles to the US?
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,702
- 46,448
- 136
political persecution.....but they have free healthcare!
authoritarian police state.....but they have free healthcare!
almost zero economic mobility.....but they have free healthcare!
dismal industrial and agricultural efficiency....but they have free healthcare!
no personal freedoms.....but they have free healthcare!
independent and UN human rights agencies not allowed in the country.....but they have free healthcare!
standard of living stuck in the 1950s.....but they have free healthcare!
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 411
-
Facebook
Twitter