Cuba Openly Mocks US Healthcare, etc.

[HamburgerBoy]

Nurse anesthetist is the pinnacle salary earner for a 'nurse' and even they don't come close to that kind of money. Unless he's talking about a ND (doctorate) who's a senior hospital admin. There are doctors that don't make that kind of money.

Slew Foot has shown his butthurt in this area before; basically, EVERYONE involved in the medical system is greedy and overpaid, except for the doctors (which he is).

 

[cliftonite]

lol, you people are so stupid, you thk doctors are the reason healthcare is so expensive, Half the nurses in my hospital make 300k/yr after benefits are added.

Wow that is as much as my wife (Dr.) makes. What hospital is this?

 

[momeNt]

What are you talking about? Are you advocating that a fast food worker deserves the same pay as a neurosurgeon?

Cuba mocks the USA that they don't have an equal pay policy like Cuba.

Cuba is not in a position to mock though....

Cuba in 2008 eased on equal pay and allowed for performance bonuses and other salary incentives. In doing so they have eroded the economic freedom enjoyed by the lazy, unmotivated, and untalented workers that make up a majority of the workforce.

I hardly view that as a defense of human rights. So Cuba should be a little bit more introspective and learn how to motivate without pay, as they successfully did before confidence in economic freedom eroded which prompted the 2008 policy changes.

 

[JSt0rm]

With this one weird trick Cuba killed 3 million Cubans. Ask me how.

 

[squarecut1]

This isn't about Cuba - but it is truly rich and ironic for us to be lecturing the whole on human rights when supposedly the richest country in the world does not provide health care to its citizens and so many suffer and die because of lack of adequate care - all in the supposedly richest country in the world.

I don't care about Cuba. But I do care about our country.

 

[glenn1]

So poor and unhealthy/sick deserve to die. Diseases should be allowed to be spread because if you can't afford to avoid/cure them then you should suffer. Profit before people, right? That's what creates a strong society right?

I guess when the founding fathers created the constitution and included the general welfare clause it was an accident (twice).

By the way, how many times do the words "free market" or "capitalism" appear in the constitution?

Besides "collective action problem" why aren't you helping those needy people? And saying someone should not be compelled to help another isn't saying that the person not helped "deserves to die." Just like if I said you should not be compelled to have sex with someone you didn't wish to, that would not mean I was saying the sexless person "deserves to be forever alone."

 

[ivwshane]

Besides "collective action problem" why aren't you helping those needy people? And saying someone should not be compelled to help another isn't saying that the person not helped "deserves to die." Just like if I said you should not be compelled to have sex with someone you didn't wish to, that would not mean I was saying the sexless person "deserves to be forever alone."

I do, I pay my taxes and I advocate policies that help everyone and I vote for politicians who support addressing the issues.

Congrats on avoiding the question though. Would you like to try again?

 

[CZroe]

This isn't about Cuba - but it is truly rich and ironic for us to be lecturing the whole on human rights when supposedly the richest country in the world does not provide health care to its citizens and so many suffer and die because of lack of adequate care - all in the supposedly richest country in the world.

I don't care about Cuba. But I do care about our country.

...our country where we have access to much better affordable health care than the "free" healthcare available in Cuba and Canada? No thanks.

My God... he actually BRAGGED that every Cuban can be born in a hospital thanks to their free universal health care! 🙄 Yep: we're just dying left and right over here and only the rich with health insurance can access hospitals!

 

[ivwshane]

...our country where we have access to much better affordable health care than the "free" healthcare available in Cuba and Canada? No thanks.

According to who and who is "we"? What measurements are you using to base the quality of health care on?

 

[CZroe]

According to who and who is "we"? What measurements are you using to base the quality of health care on?

R&D, choice, access to treatments that government-run healthcare has yet to approve, etc

There's a reason people leave Mexico and Canada to get treated in the USA when things get too serious for their lowest-common-denominator healthcare systems to handle.

 

[glenn1]

I do, I pay my taxes and I advocate policies that help everyone and I vote for politicians who support addressing the issues.

Congrats on avoiding the question though. Would you like to try again?

What question? Even with your construction I'd say yes, you "deserve to die" if you can't pay for your care as compelling others to provide services on your behalf is immoral. Your side uses that very construction when it comes to abortion ("women can't be forced to carry a fetus against their will").

Just to show you how ridiculous your statement is, If I asked you to "volunteer" to donate one of your kidneys to me and you refused would you be saying "I deserved to die"? If not, then if your refusal instead is refusal to donate your wallet then likewise you aren't saying the person "deserves to die" either.

 

[ivwshane]

R&D, choice, access to treatments that government-run healthcare has yet to approve, etc

There's a reason people leave Mexico and Canada to get treated in the USA when things get too serious for their lowest-common-denominator healthcare systems to handle.

We are indeed number 1 in research, by a wide margin.
I'm not sure how you'd measure choice and I doubt you'd have too many people agree with you on that one.
We are ranked in the middle in terms of access though.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/2014/jun/us-health-system-ranks-last

So you only managed to come up with 1 thing we are great at in terms of medical care.

 

[CZroe]

We are indeed number 1 in research, by a wide margin.

I'm not sure how you'd measure choice and I doubt you'd have too many people agree with you on that one.

We are ranked in the middle in terms of access though.



http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/2014/jun/us-health-system-ranks-last



So you only managed to come up with 1 thing we are great at in terms of medical care.

You don't agree that treatments and procedures available for certain conditions are artificially limited by what the government is willing to pay for in Canada and similar countries? Choice. We has it. We'd have more if insurance were more optional because more choices would be forced to be price-competitive (free market).

 

[ivwshane]

What question? Even with your construction I'd say yes, you "deserve to die" if you can't pay for your care as compelling others to provide services on your behalf is immoral. Your side uses that very construction when it comes to abortion ("women can't be forced to carry a fetus against their will").

Just to show you how ridiculous your statement is, If I asked you to "volunteer" to donate one of your kidneys to me and you refused would you be saying "I deserved to die"? If not, then if your refusal instead is refusal to donate your wallet then likewise you aren't saying the person "deserves to die" either.

Except we aren't compelling individuals to care for other individuals we are compelling our government and all Americans, you know that collective action you like to dismiss, to address issues. You know that collective action that this country has always required of its citizens.

But hey, it must be nice to be that douche that complains about the poor not taking care of themselves while you use public roads and public services, while collecting social security and Medicare.

 

[ivwshane]

You don't agree that treatments and procedures available for certain conditions are artificially limited by what the government is willing to pay for in Canada and similar countries? Choice. We has it. We'd have more if insurance were more optional because more choices would be forced to be price-competitive (free market).

That's called access not choice and as I linked for you, we aren't number one.

As to your second point: you are either very young and ignorant or just really stupid. We had health insurance that was optional (hell we still do!) and not only were prices rising but they were rising faster than they are now, not only that but people not only had less choices they had less access.

 

[thesmokingman]

Did you guys already touch on the pharmacos and equipment manufacturers? Those two are seriously raking in the bucks.

 

[glenn1]

Did you guys already touch on the pharmacos and equipment manufacturers? Those two are seriously raking in the bucks.

No one is ever paid a salary what they're truly worth, it's just everyone else in the world and especially in that other field who overcharge and are greedy bastards to boot. It's like taxes, no one is ever the rich guy they want to sic the IRS upon.

 

[fskimospy]

No one is ever paid a salary what they're truly worth, it's just everyone else in the world and especially in that other field who overcharge and are greedy bastards to boot. It's like taxes, no one is ever the rich guy they want to sic the IRS upon.

That's funny for you to say, considering how angry you get at the super high earning cities and coasts.

You're exactly what you complain about.

 

[CZroe]

That's called access not choice and as I linked for you, we aren't number one.



As to your second point: you are either very young and ignorant or just really stupid. We had health insurance that was optional (hell we still do!) and not only were prices rising but they were rising faster than they are now, not only that but people not only had less choices they had less access.

No. When Canada tells me I have to get my arm amputated because they won't pay for a treatment that could save it but many insurance plans in the US would, they removed a choice. When the US passes a law to penalize the "Cadillac" plans that will cover it to subsidize those who elect to go uninsured or buy the minimum then they have depressed a choice. Our leaders have done their best to make it work almost as poorly as universal healthcare and the trend started decades ago.

...and for your other point: that's why I made it a point to point out that it was because of the system discouraging uninsured self-payment even before insurance became mandatory. It's the same reason office furniture costs so much more than home furniture: they know it's coming out of a budget managed by a buyer and not directly from a buyer's pockets. One buyer cares less about getting a deal than the other. With incentivized health savings accounts we would have a huge segment of the population that is personally invested in the cost of their healthcare and they will be forced to compete for business. It's very simple to see the underlying economic principles.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Did you guys already touch on the pharmacos and equipment manufacturers? Those two are seriously raking in the bucks.

What equipment manufacturers are "raking in the bucks"? Making an MRI machine isn't cheap, but I am extremely willing to bet that no matter how much mark-up they charge a hospital when they sell one, the doctors that operate it take in far more after charging patients to use it over the instrument's lifetime.

Drug development is extremely expensive too.

Doctors and their hospitals are by far the most expensive and overpriced aspect of medical care.

 

[glenn1]

That's funny for you to say, considering how angry you get at the super high earning cities and coasts.

You're exactly what you complain about.

I am no more "mad" at blue cities then their residents are "mad" at red states for earning less. I object to some prevailing blue state behaviors and political beliefs just as I likewise object to some different ones for red states. In this particular thread the behavior I'm criticizing is the repeated actions of blue state rich people (and yes, if you're making $250k you're rich) to wrongly include themselves in the "middle class" and thus exempt themselves from the taxes they simultaneously call for while citing "collective action problem" as the reason they refuse to voluntarily help without government coercion. "I'll help but only after the rich guy (and I'm not rich although I make $249 grand) is forced to help first" is breathtaking in its dishonesty.

 

[itsmydamnation]

As an Australian i find the polarization of this topic insane. My misses recently made friends with a immigrant american couple, the couples families assumed that they would come back to America when they are going to have children. They just had the fun conversation where they told their folks they are not coming back and its all because of education and health care costs.

As an Australian i would openly mock your health care system, when i travel in the USA i make sure i have multiple copies over my travel insurance on my body at any time, because screw being unconscious with stolen wallet and given sub optimal care. I don't have that fear in any other first world country........

 

[ivwshane]

No. When Canada tells me I have to get my arm amputated because they won't pay for a treatment that could save it but many insurance plans in the US would, they removed a choice. When the US passes a law to penalize the "Cadillac" plans that will cover it to subsidize those who elect to go uninsured or buy the minimum then they have depressed a choice. Our leaders have done their best to make it work almost as poorly as universal healthcare and the trend started decades ago.

...and for your other point: that's why I made it a point to point out that it was because of the system discouraging uninsured self-payment even before insurance became mandatory. It's the same reason office furniture costs so much more than home furniture: they know it's coming out of a budget managed by a buyer and not directly from a buyer's pockets. One buyer cares less about getting a deal than the other. With incentivized health savings accounts we would have a huge segment of the population that is personally invested in the cost of their healthcare and they will be forced to compete for business. It's very simple to see the underlying economic principles.

How do you force an industry to be competitive when the very nature of their business creates a demand that can lead to death if not treated? Hint: you don't.

 

[thesmokingman]

What equipment manufacturers are "raking in the bucks"? Making an MRI machine isn't cheap, but I am extremely willing to bet that no matter how much mark-up they charge a hospital when they sell one, the doctors that operate it take in far more after charging patients to use it over the instrument's lifetime.

Drug development is extremely expensive too.

Doctors and their hospitals are by far the most expensive and overpriced aspect of medical care.

You're seriously defending the pharmacos and equipment makers? Those two sectors have staggering profit margins. There are a lot of hands yanking on the money tree problem we call US healthcare but painting the two biggest earners into some saints is hardly kosher. They're so deregulated compared to the insurance companies whom are forced by law to put every cent back into the buisness and they are only allowed to keep like I forget don't quote me but something like 3-5%.

I don't disagree that doctors and hospitals are a big part of it, because hell yea they are! My daughter was booked for 3 nights for observation at our local hospital for bloodwork. She had developed swelling in her hip joint due to a fever. Normally it's nothing but they made us stay for fear. The real fear was them covering their asses using our money in case of a suit. Their CYA amounted to just under $10K for blood test and crappy hospital food. If it wasn't for our insurer lol... whom negotiated the ludicrous fee down I dunno. Americans spend too much time hating insurers and ignoring the real pirates.

Anyways, look Tamaflu is still sucking millions down the pipe and it has been proven to do nothing. Remember years back when local governments were stockpiling the crap? Millions and millions of useless doses. The pharmacos are raking it in, while hiding the data so no one can make a sound judgement. Is it a problem for society that the most needed drugs are the most costly? Isn't it a problem for us when the makers lie about a drugs usefulness to profit? Omg, then there are the equipment makers who can charge whatever they want... that's a whole other bag of beans.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/02/tamiflu-myth-and-misconception/273167/

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26954482

 

[MagickMan]

Cuban revolution shows 5000 casualties:
*SNIP*

You're only citing numbers from the regime conflicts? Hell, an estimated quarter million have been killed just trying to leave that shithole (~1/3rd who have tried), but no, it's such a wonderful tropical utopia. So cigars, much healthcare! 🙄 Dumbass.