Cuba Openly Mocks US Healthcare, etc.

[Slew Foot]

Not necessarily better (although our best doctors are obviously far more skilled than theirs are). What I was more getting at is that it's easier to pass medical school and become licensed in Cuba than it is in the USA. Wedging open the AMA's monopoly could help things here.

lol, you people are so stupid, you thk doctors are the reason healthcare is so expensive, Half the nurses in my hospital make 300k/yr after benefits are added.

 

[Excelsior]

lol, you people are so stupid, you thk doctors are the reason healthcare is so expensive, Half the nurses in my hospital make 300k/yr after benefits are added.

No, they don't.

The amount that allied health, nursing, and support positions make isn't the reason healthcare is so expensive in this country.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

lol, you people are so stupid, you thk doctors are the reason healthcare is so expensive, Half the nurses in my hospital make 300k/yr after benefits are added.

lol, you think pharmaceuticals, only 10% of total medical costs, are the real problem.

I don't get your point btw. Are you saying $300k/yr is low for a nurse? That sounds exorbitant.

 

[cbrunny]

lol, you people are so stupid, you thk doctors are the reason healthcare is so expensive, Half the nurses in my hospital make 300k/yr after benefits are added.

well that's false. lol

 

[FerrelGeek]

lol, you people are so stupid, you thk doctors are the reason healthcare is so expensive, Half the nurses in my hospital make 300k/yr after benefits are added.

Would you please PM me the hospital? My daughter is an ICU charge nurse and she doesn't make anywhere near that amount. I'd love to give her an opportunity to make that kind of money.

 

[zinfamous]

You're the one who went off on some nutty rant about mahogany tables, twerp.

are you literate? The point was that high medical costs are directly tied to the insurance industry, which has expenditures well beyond necessity: useless infrastructure and pointless employees that provide no service to anyone.

That is a core part of the argument. it isn't a strawman, unless you decided to shut your head off...which is common for you. I know.

Your strawman is bringing in an assumed alternative--replacing this system 100% with the government, which has nothing to do with my point. I actually don't disagree with you: yes, the government can certainly be inefficient and wasteful at times, but that has nothing to do with my point that current costs are explicitly tied to the insurance industry.

Me: "The insurance industry is a wasteful cesspool of leeches and corporate gladhanders that spend 500% of the cash to provide 3% of the service" (hypothetical numbers that I pulled out of my ass)

You: "But but but Gubbermint! waaaaah!"

That's called a strawman, dummy.

Added to that, are you going to provide an argument for why you think that government waste would be greater and would provide less service than the current model that endlessly robs us? Is medicare, medicaid and even the VA the greatest thing right now? Obviously not, but they mostly work. Are you going to claim that the various models that we can currently compare and look at, are actually more wasteful and useless than our privatized system? lol...good luck. I wonder what would happen if we actually cut those fucking leeches out of our system and diverted a significant amount of capital from killing foreign brown people to treating our own people, actually giving them the support they need.

Rebuilding the mental health infrastructure in this country. you know...the one that the republicans systematically dismantled over the last several decades to replace with the prison for profit industry (Bill Clinton a big culprit here as well) and since they now claim that gun violence is a mental health problem...hey, maybe they would be keen to actually do something about it?

you think? lol

 

[zinfamous]

Would you please PM me the hospital? My daughter is an ICU charge nurse and she doesn't make anywhere near that amount. I'd love to give her an opportunity to make that kind of money.

My guess is that he is factoring costs of benefits: matching 401k, education/reimbursement pay (not that I know of many hospitals that do this), health care paid by hospital, various other expenses....still absurdly exorbitant, imo.

Also, working for a private practice vs big hospital system could be part of that assumption.

 

[BoberFett]

are you literate? The point was that high medical costs are directly tied to the insurance industry, which has expenditures well beyond necessity: useless infrastructure and pointless employees that provide no service to anyone.

That is a core part of the argument. it isn't a strawman, unless you decided to shut your head off...which is common for you. I know.

Your strawman is bringing in an assumed alternative--replacing this system 100% with the government, which has nothing to do with my point. I actually don't disagree with you: yes, the government can certainly be inefficient and wasteful at times, but that has nothing to do with my point that current costs are explicitly tied to the insurance industry.

Me: "The insurance industry is a wasteful cesspool of leeches and corporate gladhanders that spend 500% of the cash to provide 3% of the service" (hypothetical numbers that I pulled out of my ass)

You: "But but but Gubbermint! waaaaah!"

That's called a strawman, dummy.

Added to that, are you going to provide an argument for why you think that government waste would be greater and would provide less service than the current model that endlessly robs us? Is medicare, medicaid and even the VA the greatest thing right now? Obviously not, but they mostly work. Are you going to claim that the various models that we can currently compare and look at, are actually more wasteful and useless than our privatized system? lol...good luck. I wonder what would happen if we actually cut those fucking leeches out of our system and diverted a significant amount of capital from killing foreign brown people to treating our own people, actually giving them the support they need.

Rebuilding the mental health infrastructure in this country. you know...the one that the republicans systematically dismantled over the last several decades to replace with the prison for profit industry (Bill Clinton a big culprit here as well) and since they now claim that gun violence is a mental health problem...hey, maybe they would be keen to actually do something about it?

you think? lol

He mad.

 

[zinfamous]

He mad.

that must be the least invective-strewn reply from you in the last 2 or 3 years of this forum.

I feel honored.

I can only interpret this comment from you as "Oh shit, I guess I totally had no idea what I was talking about and zin is totally correct in pointing that out to me."

I accept your concession. 😀

 

[glenn1]

My guess is that he is factoring costs of benefits: matching 401k, education/reimbursement pay (not that I know of many hospitals that do this), health care paid by hospital, various other expenses....still absurdly exorbitant, imo.

Also, working for a private practice vs big hospital system could be part of that assumption.

Even if he's counting the all-in costs of an employee that's still high for a RN in any specialty or level of experience unless it's some truly bizarre situation (maybe the nurse who winters over in Antarctica or something makes that much, who knows).

Now perhaps if you're talking about a medical specialist that has "nurse" in the title (e.g. Nurse Practitioner, Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist, Nurse Midwife, etc.) then maybe but most people wouldn't consider them in the general category of "nurse".

 

[bshole]

Me: "The insurance industry is a wasteful cesspool of leeches and corporate gladhanders that spend 500% of the cash to provide 3% of the service" (hypothetical numbers that I pulled out of my ass)

Insurance is less than 4% of all health care expenditures. The problem is a hell of lot deeper than that.

I know if America can somehow cripple the AMA and force it to open the floodgates for doctors, it would help tremendously. The AMA is working against all of our health interests when they artificially limit the number of doctors.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-insurers-get-small-percentage-overall-healt/

 

[BoberFett]

that must be the least invective-strewn reply from you in the last 2 or 3 years of this forum.

I feel honored.

I can only interpret this comment from you as "Oh shit, I guess I totally had no idea what I was talking about and zin is totally correct in pointing that out to me."

I accept your concession. 😀

Still mad.

That doesn't mean you're right, just emotionally invested in your wrong answer.

 

[Sonikku]

I think America probably should be mocked when we're paying $300 for Tylenol at the hospital and wondering why healthcare is so unaffordable.

 

[JSt0rm]

I think America probably should be mocked when we're paying $300 for Tylenol at the hospital and wondering why healthcare is so unaffordable.

Why do you hate capitalism?

 

[ivwshane]

Still mad.

That doesn't mean you're right, just emotionally invested in your wrong answer.

Prove it.

Or is this just another one of your, "everyone on this forum is an idiot and it's pointless to have a discussion with them" moments? Is this just another example of how much smarter you are, that you can't even be bothered to address his questions or counter with your own reasoning as to why he is wrong?

He called you out on your straw man and instead of addressing his points (despite the fact that he actually took the time to clarify his position so that you could give an honest reply), you double down on stupidity.

Can you add substance to this discussion?

 

[glenn1]

I think America probably should be mocked when we're paying $300 for Tylenol at the hospital and wondering why healthcare is so unaffordable.

Kind of hard to square complaints about $300 Tylenol against the same organization you're compelling by force of law to provide treatment to all who show up regardless of ability to pay.

Since most of us are consumers of hospital services rather than suppliers let's flip that on its head to see how the $300 Tylenol happens. Let's imagine you were an employee (supplier of labor) to a hospital (the consumer of that labor), and you never knew beforehand if the hospital would pay you or not until after you were forced by law to render your labor service. Would you ask your normal $30/hour rate, or would you instead demand $300/hour to account for all the times you might get paid zero after doing the work?

 

[ivwshane]

Kind of hard to square complaints about $300 Tylenol against the same organization you're compelling by force of law to provide treatment to all who show up regardless of ability to pay.

Since most of us are consumers of hospital services rather than suppliers let's flip that on its head to see how the $300 Tylenol happens. Let's imagine you were an employee (supplier of labor) to a hospital (the consumer of that labor), and you never knew beforehand if the hospital would pay you or not until after you were forced by law to render your labor service. Would you ask your normal $30/hour rate, or would you instead demand $300/hour to account for all the times you might get paid zero after doing the work?

Good point! It appears that the solution would be to have government run/control all aspects of health care. Is that what you support? If not then what is your solution?

 

[CZroe]

Good point! It appears that the solution would be to have government run/control all aspects of health care. Is that what you support? If not then what is your solution?

Free market. If insurance were not the expected norm, services and prices would have to be adjusted for demand. If I want to go in and pay my own medical expenses: let me.

 

[ivwshane]

Free market. If insurance were not the expected norm, services and prices would have to be adjusted for demand. If I want to go in and pay my own medical expenses: let me.

So poor and unhealthy/sick deserve to die. Diseases should be allowed to be spread because if you can't afford to avoid/cure them then you should suffer. Profit before people, right? That's what creates a strong society right?

I guess when the founding fathers created the constitution and included the general welfare clause it was an accident (twice).

By the way, how many times do the words "free market" or "capitalism" appear in the constitution?

 

[CZroe]

So poor and unhealthy/sick deserve to die. Diseases should be allowed to be spread because if you can't afford to avoid/cure them then you should suffer. Profit before people, right? That's what creates a strong society right?



I guess when the founding fathers created the constitution and included the general welfare clause it was an accident (twice).



By the way, how many times do the words "free market" or "capitalism" appear in the constitution?

I didn't say that we shouldn't compel them to care for the uninsured when they can't afford to pay. Stop incentivizing or mandating health insurance. Incentivize health savings accounts would have the opposite effect: prices would come down because people are making choices with their money.

As far as compelling them to aide when someone cannot afford to pay: how well is that working out anyway?! Even if someone could afford to pay in the years before Obamacare, how do you think they were treated when they walked in without insurance? THAT, right there, is why we have runaway costs. We are discouraging even the people who have the money from spending their own money and making choices with it so there is no effort to cater to the market and adjust prices.

 

[momeNt]

Enough about equal pay for equal work.

Equal pay - PERIOD!

America, we need this badly, how can we possibly call ourselves the land of the free when so many experience essentially zero economic freedom?

Equal pay!

 

[FerrelGeek]

Nurse anesthetist is the pinnacle salary earner for a 'nurse' and even they don't come close to that kind of money. Unless he's talking about a ND (doctorate) who's a senior hospital admin. There are doctors that don't make that kind of money.

Even if he's counting the all-in costs of an employee that's still high for a RN in any specialty or level of experience unless it's some truly bizarre situation (maybe the nurse who winters over in Antarctica or something makes that much, who knows).

Now perhaps if you're talking about a medical specialist that has "nurse" in the title (e.g. Nurse Practitioner, Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist, Nurse Midwife, etc.) then maybe but most people wouldn't consider them in the general category of "nurse".

 

[hal2kilo]

Like this.

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/88/88jmockme.phtml

 

[FerrelGeek]

What are you talking about? Are you advocating that a fast food worker deserves the same pay as a neurosurgeon?

Enough about equal pay for equal work.

Equal pay - PERIOD!

America, we need this badly, how can we possibly call ourselves the land of the free when so many experience essentially zero economic freedom?

Equal pay!

 

[CZroe]

What are you talking about? Are you advocating that a fast food worker deserves the same pay as a neurosurgeon?

I read it as a joke.