Crystal meth is some nasty crap.

[preslove]

I'm totally for decriminalization, but meth is a drug that should stay proscribed. There really is no easy answer for meth (like with less dangerous drugs) but it definately needs to be addressed by public health and social workers first, with a criminal justice component in reserve.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
I like my state of mind, no need to alter it.

Well you're missing out. Not that I actually promote the use of methamphetamine - it is kinda dangerous - but I don't think people should deny themselves any and all psychoactive substances because of preconceptions about meth. LSD for example is less toxic than potatoes and is a very worthwhile experience.

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: Andyb23

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Yes it is nasty and unfortunately it can affect anyone.

I lost my youngest sister to it. She still is alive, however drugs has taken her from my family & her kid for the last 16 years (she is living on & off the streets for 16 years).

I second the motion that drugs should be decriminalize and be tax. By doing so it would kill the one that doesn't want to be saves quickly, and save the family members from the grieves.

Wow you are a nice person.

I may not be a nice person, but the pain that my sister has created for my family is unbearable.

She has threatens to kill my mom, my other sisters, my GF & I at many occasions if we don?t give her money. She has held my mother purse/ID as a hostage till my mom gives her money. And, many times she forces my mom to take a cab with her to an ATM machine to get money for her so she can buy drugs. I had taken 1 of her kid to my home for 2 years because she couldn?t support the child physically or mentally. And, currently I?m taken care of her 8 years old since she was 4. I love my nieces and do not want their mother to create problems for them or anyone that they love.

It is painful and not fair, however there are times that you must take your loses and move on.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
I like my state of mind, no need to alter it.

Well you're missing out. Not that I actually promote the use of methamphetamine - it is kinda dangerous - but I don't think people should deny themselves any and all psychoactive substances because of preconceptions about meth. LSD for example is less toxic than potatoes and is a very worthwhile experience.

Amazing, I've never seen someone pimp the benefits of drug use so much as yourself in this thread.

I've used just about everything about there "recreationally" and I can say with absolute certainty that it is all a waste of time. Just about the only soft spot I have left is for the occasional toke - not that I do it myself anymore.

There are quite a few impressionable kids on this board... don't you think you should be careful what you're painting in a positive light? I'm all for sharing experiences and knowledge, freedom of speech and so on, but recommending LSD as a worthwhile experience is a blanket statement on an extremely subjective topic. One person's "trip" is another's nightmare - regardless of the "purity" or "quality" of the stuff. There are simply far too many variables in play and the same is true for most if not all recreational drugs.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
i laughed at those stats at the end about $1500 per family to fight drug use and $2000 per meth lab bust....

listen retards the cost is only there because you insist on making it illegal. decriminalize and regulate it and let the morons seal there own fate.

war on drugs is an absolute joke.

With that logic, the war on crime and anything illegal is an absolute joke... Theft, arson, murder, rape, drugs, you name it, it can all be considered a 'joke'...

Why don't we just give up, cause you know it'd be the easy thing to do..

last time i checked someone chooses to take drugs where as they dont choose to be raped, murdered, robbed.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
I like my state of mind, no need to alter it.

Well you're missing out. Not that I actually promote the use of methamphetamine - it is kinda dangerous - but I don't think people should deny themselves any and all psychoactive substances because of preconceptions about meth. LSD for example is less toxic than potatoes and is a very worthwhile experience.

Amazing, I've never seen someone pimp the benefits of drug use so much as yourself in this thread.

I've used just about everything about there "recreationally" and I can say with absolute certainty that it is all a waste of time. Just about the only soft spot I have left is for the occasional toke - not that I do it myself anymore.

There are quite a few impressionable kids on this board... don't you think you should be careful what you're painting in a positive light? I'm all for sharing experiences and knowledge, freedom of speech and so on, but recommending LSD as a worthwhile experience is a blanket statement on an extremely subjective topic. One person's "trip" is another's nightmare - regardless of the "purity" or "quality" of the stuff. There are simply far too many variables in play and the same is true for most if not all recreational drugs.

Well, ok, I guess I shouldn't recommend acid to random people... kids - acid trips can go very bad - it still won't cause physical damage if it does - but you won't like it. Not one bit. So be careful.

If you re-read my posts you'll find that I am not 'pimping the benefits of drug use' at all. All my posts bar the one you quoted have been to correct the fallacies and disinformation in this thread - I merely wish to be an independent voice on the subject, one who does not buy into the media hype. Lying about drugs is not helpful to anyone.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: ivol07
For all the people who are saying that they should legalize Meth, and other hard drugs. Don't you think that would cause more junkies to be roaming the streets causing crime? Making a drug that these people are addicted to more readily available will eventually lead to their death, but in the meantime they need to find money to get their now legal drugs. It's not like all the people addicted to this stuff are functioning parts of society who have a paycheck to pay for their addiction. Don't you think more access would equal more addicts which would equal more crime? Sure legalizing all drugs would be great if everyone was able to control themselves, but I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of people can't.

And I heard someone mention Amsterdam in this thread. I've always read that the crime from addicts in Amsterdam is pretty high. I can't find any statistics but I did find this. I might be totally wrong, but if they are posting huge banners in the streets saying to watch for pick-pockets then I would guess the crime is bad enough.

Or maybe I'm just wrong all together and all drugs should be legal. But probably not.

the cost of drugs would be less if they were legalized...

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
the cost of drugs would be less if they were legalized...

Not if they were taxed - and they would be. Alcohol and cigarettes are taxed.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
I like my state of mind, no need to alter it.

Well you're missing out. Not that I actually promote the use of methamphetamine - it is kinda dangerous - but I don't think people should deny themselves any and all psychoactive substances because of preconceptions about meth. LSD for example is less toxic than potatoes and is a very worthwhile experience.

Amazing, I've never seen someone pimp the benefits of drug use so much as yourself in this thread.

I've used just about everything about there "recreationally" and I can say with absolute certainty that it is all a waste of time. Just about the only soft spot I have left is for the occasional toke - not that I do it myself anymore.

There are quite a few impressionable kids on this board... don't you think you should be careful what you're painting in a positive light? I'm all for sharing experiences and knowledge, freedom of speech and so on, but recommending LSD as a worthwhile experience is a blanket statement on an extremely subjective topic. One person's "trip" is another's nightmare - regardless of the "purity" or "quality" of the stuff. There are simply far too many variables in play and the same is true for most if not all recreational drugs.

Well, ok, I guess I shouldn't recommend acid to random people... kids - acid trips can go very bad - it still won't cause physical damage if it does - but you won't like it. Not one bit. So be careful.

If you re-read my posts you'll find that I am not 'pimping the benefits of drug use' at all. All my posts bar the one you quoted have been to correct the fallacies and disinformation in this thread - I merely wish to be an independent voice on the subject, one who does not buy into the media hype. Lying about drugs is not helpful to anyone.

Dude you said meth is "kinda" dangerous. That's like saying driving the wrong way on the interstate is "kinda" dangerous.

I understand where you're coming from. You've had decent experiences on drugs and you've been responsible with them, at least to an extent. I've seen lives destroyed by these substances though (all of them - from weed to ecstasy to coke to LSD) - so please bear with me if I choose to interject on a number of levels. In fact I'm downright biased, being a recovering drug addict - something that I had to accept because I didn't want to end up in the same situation that so many other people have. Every time drug use is romanticized, I find it hard to stay quiet about it and hopefully users here can respect that. We're all passionate about certain things, right? I harbour no ill will to recreational drug users... that would make me the most hypocritical person on the planet. I do feel the need to drop in my 0.02 when someone is saying anything positive about drug use though.

Cheers :beer:

edit: and I do think a bad LSD trip can cause physical damage, due to the fact that your brain is part and parcel of your physical being.

 

[imported_griffis]

Some seriously disturbing stuff, just s shame to see people doing this stuff

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
the cost of drugs would be less if they were legalized...

Not if they were taxed - and they would be. Alcohol and cigarettes are taxed.

you are saying one thing then the opposite. You said they wouldn't be cheap because of taxes. Then you named two cheap taxed items....

 

[imported_griffis]

Originally posted by: Atheus
For god's sake people, it's just speed! It's the same thing they give to children with ADHD, the same thing they give to military personnel on long missions, the same thing routinely used in hospitals. The media demonize these drugs to create hype and sell a big story.

I have done it many times, it's no worse than any other recreational stimulant - it's not even that powerful. And contrary to the 'one hit and you're hooked' crap that gets thrown around these days, I don't find it as addictive as cocaine, or cigarettes.

Originally posted by: rudder
When police come across meth labs, they are usually so toxic that full protection must be worn when gathering evidence... why would you put that in your body?

Meth labs are toxic because of the chemicals used in the manufacture of the drug, not the finished drug itself.

Ummm so, Adderall is the same thing as meth? Wow man, Im pretty sure thats a stretch

 

[Pepsi90919]

love the jimmy eat world in the background

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
Dude you said meth is "kinda" dangerous. That's like saying driving the wrong way on the interstate is "kinda" dangerous.

Not really comparable though is it... if you drive on the wrong side of the road it's just a matter of time until you crash and die horribly, but it is possible to use methamphetamine (good quality in reasonable doses) and not have any problems beyond the comedown.

I know, even that rambling sentence sounds like I am promoting the stuff, but honestly I am not...

Behaving like a stereotypical meth user is dangerous. If you smoke crappy impure drugs all day, stay awake for weeks, don't wash, don't go to work, etc, then yes it is a very dangerous life. But this is not due to the drug itself. It is due to the lifestyle. In my opinion talking about these substances as if they somehow have the capacity to be 'good' or 'evil' in and of themselves is not helpful.

If you give kids the kind of misinformation that gets thrown around schools and such, like "one hit and you're hooked", then the first thing they will discover when they encounter drugs is that actually much of what they have been told is wrong. They will think "hey, that didn't make me feel terrible like they said it would, I feel good! and I'm not hooked!"... then they will start to wonder what else they were lied to about... "are drugs really dangerous at all? Maybe I can do as much as I want and it doesn't matter?" - at that point they will get into trouble. People need to be told the truth about these things, not convinced they are bad at all cost.

I understand where you're coming from. You've had decent experiences on drugs and you've been responsible with them, at least to an extent. I've seen lives destroyed by these substances though (all of them - from weed to ecstasy to coke to LSD) - so please bear with me if I choose to interject on a number of levels. In fact I'm downright biased, being a recovering drug addict - something that I had to accept because I didn't want to end up in the same situation that so many other people have. Every time drug use is romanticized, I find it hard to stay quiet about it and hopefully users here can respect that. We're all passionate about certain things, right? I harbour no ill will to recreational drug users... that would make me the most hypocritical person on the planet. I do feel the need to drop in my 0.02 when someone is saying anything positive about drug use though.

Cheers :beer:

edit: and I do think a bad LSD trip can cause physical damage, due to the fact that your brain is part and parcel of your physical being.

I understand where you're coming from too - perhaps the difference is that you have given up and I still use. I don't think I will ever consider all my drug use a waste of time though, like you said you consider yours. My time clubbing/raving on E was probably the best time of my life.

I don't think a bad trip can damage your brain, maybe your mind... but now we're getting into really big questions

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
the cost of drugs would be less if they were legalized...

Not if they were taxed - and they would be. Alcohol and cigarettes are taxed.

you are saying one thing then the opposite. You said they wouldn't be cheap because of taxes. Then you named two cheap taxed items....

Alcohol and cigarettes aren't cheap! WTF are you talking about? How much do you think the tobacco inside a pack of cigarettes costs to produce?

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: griffis

Originally posted by: Atheus
For god's sake people, it's just speed! It's the same thing they give to children with ADHD, the same thing they give to military personnel on long missions, the same thing routinely used in hospitals. The media demonize these drugs to create hype and sell a big story.

I have done it many times, it's no worse than any other recreational stimulant - it's not even that powerful. And contrary to the 'one hit and you're hooked' crap that gets thrown around these days, I don't find it as addictive as cocaine, or cigarettes.

Originally posted by: rudder
When police come across meth labs, they are usually so toxic that full protection must be worn when gathering evidence... why would you put that in your body?

Meth labs are toxic because of the chemicals used in the manufacture of the drug, not the finished drug itself.

Ummm so, Adderall is the same thing as meth? Wow man, Im pretty sure thats a stretch

No, Desoxyn is the same as meth. Adderall is dextro-amphetamine, a very similar drug - and another type of street 'speed'.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
the cost of drugs would be less if they were legalized...

Not if they were taxed - and they would be. Alcohol and cigarettes are taxed.

you are saying one thing then the opposite. You said they wouldn't be cheap because of taxes. Then you named two cheap taxed items....

Alcohol and cigarettes aren't cheap! WTF are you talking about? How much do you think the tobacco inside a pack of cigarettes costs to produce?

the non brand cigs can be had for 3 dollars a pack in some states. I can purchase a forty oz beer for $1.79

 

[imported_griffis]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: griffis

Originally posted by: Atheus
For god's sake people, it's just speed! It's the same thing they give to children with ADHD, the same thing they give to military personnel on long missions, the same thing routinely used in hospitals. The media demonize these drugs to create hype and sell a big story.

I have done it many times, it's no worse than any other recreational stimulant - it's not even that powerful. And contrary to the 'one hit and you're hooked' crap that gets thrown around these days, I don't find it as addictive as cocaine, or cigarettes.

Originally posted by: rudder
When police come across meth labs, they are usually so toxic that full protection must be worn when gathering evidence... why would you put that in your body?

Meth labs are toxic because of the chemicals used in the manufacture of the drug, not the finished drug itself.

Ummm so, Adderall is the same thing as meth? Wow man, Im pretty sure thats a stretch

No, Desoxyn is the same as meth. Adderall is dextro-amphetamine, a very similar drug - and another type of street 'speed'.

Even if the above were even remotely true the dosage amounts are much more controlled in Adderall and Desoxyn.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: griffis

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: griffis

Originally posted by: Atheus
For god's sake people, it's just speed! It's the same thing they give to children with ADHD, the same thing they give to military personnel on long missions, the same thing routinely used in hospitals. The media demonize these drugs to create hype and sell a big story.

I have done it many times, it's no worse than any other recreational stimulant - it's not even that powerful. And contrary to the 'one hit and you're hooked' crap that gets thrown around these days, I don't find it as addictive as cocaine, or cigarettes.

Originally posted by: rudder
When police come across meth labs, they are usually so toxic that full protection must be worn when gathering evidence... why would you put that in your body?

Meth labs are toxic because of the chemicals used in the manufacture of the drug, not the finished drug itself.

Ummm so, Adderall is the same thing as meth? Wow man, Im pretty sure thats a stretch

No, Desoxyn is the same as meth. Adderall is dextro-amphetamine, a very similar drug - and another type of street 'speed'.

Even if the above were even remotely true the dosage amounts are much more controlled in Adderall and Desoxyn.

Remotely true?... dude, just look it up, why would I lie?

A dose is as controlled as you make it.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
the cost of drugs would be less if they were legalized...

Not if they were taxed - and they would be. Alcohol and cigarettes are taxed.

you are saying one thing then the opposite. You said they wouldn't be cheap because of taxes. Then you named two cheap taxed items....

Alcohol and cigarettes aren't cheap! WTF are you talking about? How much do you think the tobacco inside a pack of cigarettes costs to produce?

the non brand cigs can be had for 3 dollars a pack in some states. I can purchase a forty oz beer for $1.79

Exactly.

Think about it again - how much do you think that tobacco and paper is worth? 1 cent? 0.1 cent?

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
the cost of drugs would be less if they were legalized...

Not if they were taxed - and they would be. Alcohol and cigarettes are taxed.

you are saying one thing then the opposite. You said they wouldn't be cheap because of taxes. Then you named two cheap taxed items....

Alcohol and cigarettes aren't cheap! WTF are you talking about? How much do you think the tobacco inside a pack of cigarettes costs to produce?

the non brand cigs can be had for 3 dollars a pack in some states. I can purchase a forty oz beer for $1.79

Exactly.

Think about it again - how much do you think that tobacco and paper is worth? 1 cent? 0.1 cent?

whenever you want to start making sense I will resume this conversation. You are arguing legalized drugs would cost more. I want to know your logic behind this. Taxes is not a relevant argument's because you have no idea what the tax structure would be based on. They clearly wouldn't tax it to the point that it would be unaffordable because that would create a black market again.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
i laughed at those stats at the end about $1500 per family to fight drug use and $2000 per meth lab bust....

listen retards the cost is only there because you insist on making it illegal. decriminalize and regulate it and let the morons seal there own fate.

war on drugs is an absolute joke.

decriminalization of certain drugs presents a valid case for argument. actually, check that. what i mean is - decriminalizing pot is DEBATABLE.

doing the same for hardcore drugs like meth & smack would be societal suicide and just plain stupid. even thinking about it in a similar fashion shows quite a bit of ignorance.

people do not -not use drugs - because they are illegal. They don't use drugs because they aren't retarded.

Meh, you're on thin ice with that statement. I'm not going to bother going into the whole, "people from every segment of society experiment with and / or recreationally use drugs" because it would be beating a dead horse. Then there's the classification of drugs themselves - coffee, alcohol, cigarettes - these all apply. I'm just going to say that everyone from Einstein-level intelligence right down to your street bum uses drugs. That's a fact, it's indisputable and irrefutable.

thank you for backing me up here. You are agreeing that currently everyone uses drugs that wants to use drugs anyways regardless of there status in society or intelligence.

Yeah ok we're done here.

just try and work with me here for a second....you said

" I'm just going to say that everyone from Einstein-level intelligence right down to your street bum uses drugs. That's a fact, it's indisputable and irrefutable"

Everyone uses drugs(hardcore or softcore) whether experimentation or daily use from the governor to the homeless guy....point is here if they want to use......they use regardless of legality.

spend half the money being spent fighting it on anti drug campaigns.....and rehab clinics and I'm certain the results would be better. In other societies where it is decriminalized its a non issue because if you use society looks at you as a fvcking joke. In this country it is glamorized. Spend money to change the image society has rather than pissing it away on a battle that cant be won.

thats my .02

that is exactly what your opinion is worth, 2 cents.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: Atheus
If you give kids the kind of misinformation that gets thrown around schools and such, like "one hit and you're hooked", then the first thing they will discover when they encounter drugs is that actually much of what they have been told is wrong. They will think "hey, that didn't make me feel terrible like they said it would, I feel good! and I'm not hooked!"... then they will start to wonder what else they were lied to about... "are drugs really dangerous at all? Maybe I can do as much as I want and it doesn't matter?" - at that point they will get into trouble. People need to be told the truth about these things, not convinced they are bad at all cost.

Wisdom can be gained through using drugs, but what kind of wisdom and to what end? I think it is the most petty, cheap wisdom out there, populated with experiences that we don't need to have. Generations upon generations of people lived without a shred of this crap in their lives. They all lived complete lives. Now since it is available, people use it. I just question whether or not we are better off now as opposed to before.

I'm going to pick on weed right now for lack of a better example. If cavemen were able to see us today, grinding up the leaves and dried buds of a plant and inhaling the smoke into our lungs, they would probably think we were idiots. Lo and behold, afterwards, we're basically on the same intellectual level. Well, that's a little harsh but you get the idea?

All these chemical concoctions floating around too... I've been to raves, I know what that's all about. I've danced until the sun came up and went home soaked in a cold sweat, staring at fractal posters on my friend's walls watching them in full animated mode, in better resolution than I've ever seen on a computer. That friend is gone now, I don't know where he ended up. 99% of the friends I made through drugs are gone from my life, because the experiences we shared - no matter how many times - fade over the years. They just don't last like the REAL life things do - you know, the things normal people do. Druggies aren't normal - and I'm not saying you are one.

Time is better spent doing other things. I often wonder how many talents I could have developed during all that time spent with my bad habits. Like they say though, 30 is the new 20 for a lot of us that got caught up in the lifestyle in the 90s. "And then one day you find, ten years have got behind you..." rings true for me. Drugs really are bad, it just sucks that some of us have to learn the hard way. I think as a society, we will have to learn the hard way and we have a long way to go yet.

I second-guessed hitting reply because this is quite a personal reply on a large message board, but for the sake of the conversation, here it is.

 

[Eska]

tried is few times... not addictive at all... there are far more better and addictive drugs out there...

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
the cost of drugs would be less if they were legalized...

Not if they were taxed - and they would be. Alcohol and cigarettes are taxed.

you are saying one thing then the opposite. You said they wouldn't be cheap because of taxes. Then you named two cheap taxed items....

Alcohol and cigarettes aren't cheap! WTF are you talking about? How much do you think the tobacco inside a pack of cigarettes costs to produce?

the non brand cigs can be had for 3 dollars a pack in some states. I can purchase a forty oz beer for $1.79

Exactly.

Think about it again - how much do you think that tobacco and paper is worth? 1 cent? 0.1 cent?

whenever you want to start making sense I will resume this conversation. You are arguing legalized drugs would cost more. I want to know your logic behind this. Taxes is not a relevant argument's because you have no idea what the tax structure would be based on. They clearly wouldn't tax it to the point that it would be unaffordable because that would create a black market again.

I reasoned that if you tax something, it will become more expensive - that seems to me to be true by definition.

However, I am not a student of economics. Can you enlighten me on how taxing something could make it cheaper?