Crypto and HR 3684 - urgent attention needed from all!

[fskimospy]

Stablecoins!?!

Ooh, a cryptocurrency pegged to the US Dollar. I have an exciting counter-proposal to you: use US Dollars. There's a robust financial system set up around them and lots of controls to deter financial crime, unlike with cryptocurrencies which again, are only useful for committing crimes.

And oh look - you can lend your USDC directly from your hardware wallet without third party for true market rates! https://defirate.com/ (Compounds, dydx, etc)

Or you can keep your dollar in your bank where it earns 0.01% interest.

Man that sure sounds like a great investing platform.

Crypto Exchange Gets Millions After Copy-Paste of a Rival’s Code

Over the past few months, investors poured billions into hundreds of so-called decentralized-finance apps, which let users lend, borrow and trade cryptocurrencies without intermediaries like banks. Then Sushi happened.

www.bloomberg.com

Again you don't understand because you never did your research. Cryptocurrency is necessary to make a blockchain functional. You are not likely to have blockchains without some currency or form of payout, because the infrastructure costs money to setup and run. Call it "cryptographically secure rewards tokens" if that sounds more friendly to you than "cryptocurrency".

I most certainly do understand - I think you are the person who doesn't understand. You're saying that in order to set up a blockchain people need a reason to do so. I agree! Cryptocurrency is an actively bad reason to set up a blockchain though. If blockchain technology is legitimately useful for actually good ends then it will be used for that! The idea that we need to make actively harmful things in order to make a blockchain is nonsense.

 

[fskimospy]

I forgot you're the "dudes I just got my first loan via crypto, now I'm on the same level as Jeff Bezos!!!!!! Crypto saved my marriage, cured cancer, and is going to usher in the Age of Aquarius!!!" from other subforums. JHumeC, dude, you're living in fantasyland based on the posts you've made.

Uh, what in the fucking fuck are you talking about? Oh yeah, all the poor people aren't just getting zero interest loans but are actually making money from it? Which that's what the wealthiest people are doing, you know, right? And not a little bit of money either. Either you really are completely clueless (I do find it amusing that you just in like the last year took out a crypto loan and admit you knew jack shit but now are trying to lecture people about financial markets...). Oh what's that, you're full of shit yet again? Sit down and shut up, now way! Again, if you don't think the wealthy are profiting from you crypto evangelists boosting crypto you're a monumental moron. Crypto is doing absolutely nothing for income inequality and anyone claiming otherwise is either straight up lying, delusional, or an idiot.

Uh...k? I have no clue where you think I'm being critical of crypto for people making money via it. Where did I mention money laundering? Oh I didn't? How about you argue based on what I actually said and not nonsense that I didn't? The fact that you're so defensive about money laundering tells me everything I need to know though.

I like how you tried to be a dick pulling an FYGM, yet you're the one freaking out that you're gonna have to pay taxes on it. You remind me of the idiots that thought they could get away with buying tons of shit online and not claiming it (and not paying taxes on it) because it was online and somehow in their head didn't count as a real transaction (I knew people that even tried to claim that shit as business expense and try to write it off, it didn't work out well for them in the end). The dumbest part is you have no clue if I have anything invested in crypto. For all you know I've got more in it than you do. I'm just not a moron trying to bring attention to it and wondering why the government is looking at taxing it. You're the type of clown that after declaring how crypto is pure because the huge investment banks weren't involved, then turned around and claimed them getting involved in it legitimizes it.

The funniest part is you apparently expect us to back you still even after you tried gloating and simultaneously whining about how its ruining your entire future because your business is in jeopardy now!

I'd have less of a problem with you if you were just honest that you made money and would rather not pay taxes on it, and also that you want to keep boosting its value, while building a business where you make money but don't pay taxes. Because that's literally all you've actually argued that magically people can make more money if they just don't have to pay taxes on it. And also without paying taxes that means all the money is free from government (which makes it good and pure)!!! Wait til you find out about Libertarianism from your local "Sovereign Citizen"!

The funniest part is how you crypto evangelists are trying to simultaneously sell both a Libertarian and Communist utopia and legit cannot see how absurd and silly you come off. It does help explain how so many people became cultists of Capitalism because that's basically what Capitalism did is claim that it would free the world's poor by equalizing wealth (which, as we've seen because of you arguing it, it did no such thing).

Also for all the 'people making money on crypto' there are a ton of people losing money on it because for most coins a very small number of wallets own the overwhelming majority of them, making them very vulnerable to pump and dump.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Ban crypto

Nah, tax it.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Crypto needs regulated heavily, it needs to be taxed heavily, it needs to be tracked heavily, and it needs to quickly move away from pumping CO2.

As long as those things are accomplished, I'm fine with crypto.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

I like how you tried to be a dick pulling an FYGM, yet you're the one freaking out that you're gonna have to pay taxes on it.

I've already paid more in taxes on it than many of you will or have taken out an entire mortgage for. So no - that's not it at all.

I'm all for regulations being done right, and people paying their fair share. It's already about half way there. No "big user" is going to enter and leave the crypto ecosystem without there being a noticeable amount of money moved around and some flags raised. Right now it's about figuring out those smaller transactions, which is ironic our government wants to focus on those instead closing the loopholes that allow trillion dollar companies like Amazon to avoid paying any taxes at all.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Also for all the 'people making money on crypto' there are a ton of people losing money on it because for most coins a very small number of wallets own the overwhelming majority of them, making them very vulnerable to pump and dump.

So what? Penny stocks are exactly the same? What regulations are there on those? And don't tell me there are any meaningful ones because it's ridiculously easy to to be buy some non-name garbage on the OTC markets on pretty much any broker. Go take a look at WSB and see the degeneracy going on within our "legal" financial systems before you talk about crypto being pump and dump and thus dangerous. Our current financial systems aren't stopping people from blowing away their entire life savings. At least in DeFi-land the playing field is level where one is not getting some special secret privileges based on class, where our financial system enables that and stacks the odds even more so against the little guys.

Yes, there will be rich powerful actors in crypto. There will never be a world where more money != more power. But our current systems facilitate and provide exponentially more power as you go higher up. This is not the case in defi or blockchain land. You go from exponential back to linear which is more much fair playing field for everyone involved.

This is getting way off now so I'll just let this thread run its course. I've got nothing more to say on the topic. Cryptocurrency in itself is not even really my concern. I'm not here to convince anyone to buy Bitcoin or Ethereum. It's all the other cool things that be built on top it (that I cannot even begin to explain if you can't understand the bottom layer of all this) that may not see the light of the day within our borders. Instead we'll be buying the tech from other countries down the line and guess who will paying for it? You in your taxes.

I want to build on top of Ethereum and provide something new of value to the world (and you'll have to take my word for it - it does provide value, I can't stay what it is without giving away the idea). As a software developer this is one of the more challenging areas I've been in, so it takes time. Crypto is a deep topic. In 2011-2012 I thought it was all a scam too. I could have purchased 25,000 Bitcoin for $25 and I passed up on it. I'm trying to reasonable, but it's the same trying to convince anti-vaxxers. Because you all want the answer in less than 100 words. That's what social media and technology has done to our brains. I've probably provided a few thousand at this point, so hopefully instead of continuing to be ignorant - go read all of the responses and just start giving it time. You won't understand it in one day. Even a week, maybe a month if you're lucky or as intelligent as Vitalik Buterin. But if you follow it even just from the outside for a year - you will.

 

[Greenman]

Ooh, a cryptocurrency pegged to the US Dollar. I have an exciting counter-proposal to you: use US Dollars. There's a robust financial system set up around them and lots of controls to deter financial crime, unlike with cryptocurrencies which again, are only useful for committing crimes.



Man that sure sounds like a great investing platform.

Crypto Exchange Gets Millions After Copy-Paste of a Rival’s Code

Over the past few months, investors poured billions into hundreds of so-called decentralized-finance apps, which let users lend, borrow and trade cryptocurrencies without intermediaries like banks. Then Sushi happened.

www.bloomberg.com

I most certainly do understand - I think you are the person who doesn't understand. You're saying that in order to set up a blockchain people need a reason to do so. I agree! Cryptocurrency is an actively bad reason to set up a blockchain though. If blockchain technology is legitimately useful for actually good ends then it will be used for that! The idea that we need to make actively harmful things in order to make a blockchain is nonsense.

You know it worries the hell out of me that I completely agree with you on this. I'm going to go check under the house for pods.

 

[cytg111]

Stablecoins!?!

And oh look - you can lend your USDC directly (fully backed 1:1 unlike Tether - which I will agree needs to go) from your hardware wallet without third party for true market rates! https://defirate.com/ (Compounds, dydx). Or you can keep your dollar in your bank where it earns 0.01% interest. Oh and when Bitcoin was pushing $50-60K, the demand for loans was high, those lending rates were as high as 10-30%. Free market.



Again you don't understand because you never did your research. I can full on tell from both of your responses. How much time did you spend trying to read into and understand really understand all of this? 20 minutes?

You are not likely to have blockchains without some currency or form of payout, because the infrastructure costs money to setup and run and do the work required to keep it secure. It's a built in rewards mechanism, and now the "rewards tokens" such as Bitcoin and Ethereum have become valuable because the networks are valuable, and you need them to keep processing and paying for transactions. Call it "cryptographically secure rewards tokens" if that sounds more friendly to you than "cryptocurrency".

Oh and you know what else is actively harmful? The internet. So let's ban it too, since people are still falling for Nigerian scam emails or getting phished some other way. Or forming groups of conspiracy theory groups on social media to push their agenda causing a complete failure of pandemic response, etc.

Crypto without obstacles, takes off today.
Can you make us a projection how much energy will be used to mine the rest of 2021?
2022? 2023?
Would there be reason to believe that there WONT be a race to most crypto planet wide as a means of geopolitical power?
Will there be built nuclear plants for the sole purpose of mining?
Where do you see these coins going?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I still don’t get what’s in it for me regarding crypto or supporting some crypto law.

I thought about the security aspect anD I agree for a very particular person that may be a good benefit, I just feel a lot (not all) of those people are criminals or someone hiding assets during a divorce. I cannot think of a reason why the security aspect of crypto is a benefit to the vast majority of people who use traditional banks that are fdic insured.
I am all for hearing reasons why crypto will help me out now or in the future but I have yet to hear a benefit besides the above clearly explained to me.
I do feel some pain regarding how crypto has evolved. Right now I only see pain and no benefit.

 

[digiram]

There's too many coins. Are all merchants going to accept them? Imagin digital price displays for items at Walmart in the future where prices continuiously fluctuate. That would be hilarious. Stand in aisle, waits for mayo price to drop relative to doge, then it goes up and you go home because you can't afford it now.. lol

What are we really investing in? I have stake in a few coins just to play along, but it still doesn't make much sense to me. Only realistic use case to me is bitcoin as a store of value. Kinda like digital gold I suppose. One that drains a ton of energy.. lol.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You know it worries the hell out of me that I completely agree with you on this. I'm going to go check under the house for pods.

Did ya get vaccinated?
If so start there look for Nano Bots or 5G antennae’s. Also see if a magnet sticks to your ass.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You know it worries the hell out of me that I completely agree with you on this. I'm going to go check under the house for pods.

BTW I found myself agreeing with s0me0ne earlier.

 

[FelixDeCat]

It won't pass.

 

[fskimospy]

So what? Penny stocks are exactly the same? What regulations are there on those? And don't tell me there are any meaningful ones because it's ridiculously easy to to be buy some non-name garbage on the OTC markets on pretty much any broker. Go take a look at WSB and see the degeneracy going on within our "legal" financial systems before you talk about crypto being pump and dump and thus dangerous. Our current financial systems aren't stopping people from blowing away their entire life savings. At least in DeFi-land the playing field is level where one is not getting some special secret privileges based on class, where our financial system enables that and stacks the odds even more so against the little guys.

And the amount of money you can make in penny stocks is incredible! Funny how you shifted from complaining about the low interest rate you get from savings to complaining about the insecurity of other highly speculative investments. Lol.

If we were to attempt to run our economy on penny stocks this would also be a terrible idea. Thanks for highlighting why crypto is bad.

Yes, there will be rich powerful actors in crypto. There will never be a world where more money != more power. But our current systems facilitate and provide exponentially more power as you go higher up. This is not the case in defi or blockchain land. You go from exponential back to linear which is more much fair playing field for everyone involved.

Yeah that’s why Bitcoin has been repeatedly pumped and dumped in recent years.

This is getting way off now so I'll just let this thread run its course. I've got nothing more to say on the topic. Cryptocurrency in itself is not even really my concern. I'm not here to convince anyone to buy Bitcoin or Ethereum. It's all the other cool things that be built on top it (that I cannot even begin to explain if you can't understand the bottom layer of all this) that may not see the light of the day within our borders. Instead we'll be buying the tech from other countries down the line and guess who will paying for it? You in your taxes.

I think your problem is the opposite - we do understand it and we understand crypto is a huge scam.

 

[Greenman]

Did ya get vaccinated?
If so start there look for Nano Bots or 5G antennae’s. Also see if a magnet sticks to your ass.

Depending on what I ate for dinner, most things will stick to my ass.
I think you're on to something with the vaccine idea, I knew I shouldn't have let them stick that shit in me.
Will I have to start wearing Birkenstocks?

 

[Roger Wilco]

Crypto without obstacles, takes off today.
Can you make us a projection how much energy will be used to mine the rest of 2021?
2022? 2023?
Would there be reason to believe that there WONT be a race to most crypto planet wide as a means of geopolitical power?
Will there be built nuclear plants for the sole purpose of mining?
Where do you see these coins going?

Considering the fervor of crypto addicts, if they are forced to mine with green energy, they will be some of the most personally incentivized people on the planet to pursue green energy. Crypto is a self-perpetuating cult of greed. We should use legislation to force that greed into green energy infrastructure.

 

[hal2kilo]

And the amount of money you can make in penny stocks is incredible! Funny how you shifted from complaining about the low interest rate you get from savings to complaining about the insecurity of other highly speculative investments. Lol.

If we were to attempt to run our economy on penny stocks this would also be a terrible idea. Thanks for highlighting why crypto is bad.


Yeah that’s why Bitcoin has been repeatedly pumped and dumped in recent years.


I think your problem is the opposite - we do understand it and we understand crypto is a huge scam.

Yep, got lucky made 8,000 in a penny stock related to X-ray lithography. Then I got greedy and lost 4 grand of the 8. Dangerous place, like casinos.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Funny how you shifted from complaining about the low interest rate you get from savings to complaining about the insecurity of other highly speculative investments. Lol.

Am I the one complaining about this, or are you confusing yourself with me? I don't care if people buy ****coins or ****stocks, naked options, etc. It's their choice.

I think your problem is the opposite - we do understand it and we understand crypto is a huge scam.

Glad I didn't listen to that many years ago. I'd still be stuck in my "required" 9 to 5 life if I did. And unfortunately people will still listen to that and miss out on plenty of opportunities within the space itself. Bitcoin, and to an extent Ethereum aren't going to do significantly better than other more traditional speculative investments from here on out. But there are things being built within, mainly Ethereum and some Gen 3.0 blockchains that are going to be great opportunities. Now that the foundation is there, the smart investor is now looking at what is built on these blockchains will generate income (think startups that will grow into much larger companies within the blockchain space). The NFT space for example will be able to provide royalties incomes directly to producers, without any intermediaries. Again someone enlighten on what is there to not like about that thanks to this technology?

Crypto is the new frontier. I tell people my goal is to make passive income... in crypto. It's still new and there for the taking. Only the foundations (super secure tamper proof networks) have been placed, stress tested, and even still need improvement for mass usage (it's getting close). And everything being built on top of them is still very and experimental, much like the networks themselves were 5-10 years ago.

But don't listen to me. Instead listen to this, even though it has nothing to do with the original intent of thread because this is where the discussions landed:

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I still don’t get what’s in it for me

Gratitude from NJCryptoFan?

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Gratitude from NJCryptoFan?

Hey at least I won't be old man Lost_in_the_Blockchain in 10-20 years.

 

[fskimospy]

Am I the one complaining about this, or are you confusing yourself with me? I don't care if people buy ****coins or ****stocks, naked options, etc. It's their choice.

Yes, you are the one complaining about that. Do you need me to quote you? Haha.

Glad I didn't listen to that many years ago. I'd still be stuck in my "required" 9 to 5 life if I did. And unfortunately people will still listen to that and miss out on plenty of opportunities within the space itself. Bitcoin, and to an extent Ethereum aren't going to do significantly better than other more traditional speculative investments from here on out. But there are things being built within, mainly Ethereum and some Gen 3.0 blockchains that are going to great opportunities. Now that the foundation is there, the smart investor is now looking at what is built on these blockchains will generate income (think startups that will grow into much larger companies within the blockchain space).

Again, if blockchain is useful there's no reason it needs to be propped up with a giant ponzi scheme.

Crypto is the new frontier. I tell people my goal is to make passive income... in crypto. It's still new and there for the taking. Only the foundations (super secure tamper proof networks) have been placed, stress tested, and even still need improvement for mass usage (it's getting close). And everything being built on top of them is still very and experimental, much like the networks themselves were 5-10 years ago.

But don't listen to me. Instead listen to this:

Whether or not crypto is a good speculative investment or not has nothing to do with its actual use as a currency, which is entirely bad. After all, tulips were a great investment at one point and they are infinitely more useful than cryptocurrencies. Speculative bubbles depend on there being someone out there just a touch dumber than you, so as long as that's the case you can make a lot of money! You can also lose an enormous amount of money once people figure out it's a scam.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Again, if blockchain is useful there's no reason it needs to be propped up with a giant ponzi scheme.

Ok. Here goes. Last try at breaking this part down in simple terms:

"Crypto rewards tokens" are needed to "pay" miners, validators, etc some form of rewards for maintaining and securing the network. Imaginary tokens (i.e. Bitcoin) are created because you cannot simply "port" USD onto a new blockchain and have it be the base currency that drives it (unless you are the fed). So you make up a token and hope it will obtain value from two facts:
A. These tokens are limited in supply
B. Adoption of the network: more of these tokens are needed to process transactions be it an exchange of tokens, launching a smart-contract, or processing something built on top of it. And since the supply of the native token is fixed (or known), the very basic supply/demand curve requires price of the token to go up.
--- If either A or B cannot be satisfied, the token/network become worthless


Do not say there must be a better system unless you can propose one. Without incentive, there is no work done. Do you go to work for free? The experiment that started over a decade ago started with Bitcoin started with it being nearly worthless. If this tech was truly worthless or a ponzi, it would have fizzled out years ago especially after things like Mt Gox happened, but instead it grew orders of magnitude while you all focus on the 2011 argument of Bitcoin = criminals.


You confuse ponzi for adoption and usage because you don't yet or just misunderstand. Most of Ethereum's network activity or at this point is from deployment of smart-contracts - that is developers trying to build useful applications on top of the network. All activity that you need the native token, Ethereum, to drive. You need to pay network nodes for the security and other benefits that you application will have by running on top of Ethereum. There is nothing ponzi about the fact that people began to value these networks for being well decentralized turning into the most secure financial settlement networks (can also just be generalized to decentralized databases) to ever exist, and are now trying to build on top of them further increasing adoption and usage.

 

[fskimospy]

Ok. Here goes. Last try at breaking this part down in simple terms:

"Crypto rewards tokens" are needed to "pay" miners, validators, etc some form of rewards for maintaining and securing the network. Imaginary tokens (i.e. Bitcoin) was created because you cannot simply "port" USD onto a new blockchain and have it be the base currency that drives it. So you make up a token and hope it will obtain value from two facts:
A. These tokens are limited in supply
B. As adoption of the network grows, more of these tokens are needed to process transactions be it an exchange of tokens, launching a smart-contract, or processing something built on top of it. But since the supply of the native token is fixed (or known), the very basic supply/demand curve requires price of the token to go up

No.

If a network has a legitimate use, people will use it for that. For example, we do not require a ponzi scheme to operate the internet - it is operated and maintained because it has actual use. If blockchain networks require a ponzi scheme to maintain viability, that indicates they have no legitimate use as of right now.

Long story short, you confuse ponzi for adoption and usage because you don't yet or just misunderstand. And before you give me the whole "criminal adoption" argument all over again, most of Ethereum's network activity at this point is from deployment of smart-contracts - that is developers trying to build useful applications on top of the network. There is nothing ponzi about the fact that people began to value these networks for being well decentralized turning into the most secure financial settlement networks (can also just be generalized to decentralized databases) to ever exist, and are now trying to build on top of them further increasing adoption and usage.

Yes, the most common defense to people pointing out cryptocurrency is a scam is to claim that if only we truly understood it then we would agree with you. Again, the problem is that people DO understand it.

Cryptocurrency has no use as a currency in any way that benefits society and I see no reason to believe it ever will. There is nothing it does better than actual currency other than enable people to commit crimes. While I agree that facilitation of crime is something that lends some value to cryptocurrency, there's also no reason society should accept this.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Cryptocurrency has no use as a currency... there is nothing it does better than actual currency...

Here you saying you understand but you don't.

Another misunderstanding you and so many others still have is you expect to see cryptocurrency function as a currency like the dollar that pays for a cup of coffee. Cryptocurrency, at least right now, is meant to drive the networks that something like your stablecoin, USDC, or eventual Fedcoin that will run on top of something like Ethereum may be used to pay for that cup of coffee instead. And before you misunderstand again - that is not the end goal or endgame here of these networks. It's nice that we may be able to do that one day upgrading our centralized payments networks - but I actually myself don't care too much for that aspect of it. I care most about these networks offering producers of anything a direct and secure line access to consumers, thus without intermediaries. That is the freedom of these networks you all fail to realize. It takes all of the bloat in our current (financial) world, and rightfully puts them out of business.

 

[fskimospy]

Here you saying you understand but you don't.

Another misunderstanding you and so many others still have is you expect to see cryptocurrency function as a currency like the dollar that pays for a cup of coffee. Cryptocurrency, at least right now, is meant to drive the networks that something like your stablecoin, USDC, or eventual Fedcoin that will run on top of something like Ethereum may be used to pay for that cup of coffee instead.

If cryptocurrency can't be exchanged for goods and services just like any other currency then it has no value and is... wait for it... a giant scam.