Crypto and HR 3684 - urgent attention needed from all!

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NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,914
2,546
136
Don’t agree. Crypto is highly speculative and needs regulation. Energy hog crypto needs to go.
While it didn’t happen in the US as of now I could easily imagine it happening here.

Simple summary:
Couple of young guys basically fresh out of teen tears walk off with 2.2 billion in crypto and guess what there is no way of tracking these coins. Investors lose all.


Not to mention EVERY hack demands crypto payment.
People can steal millions in cash if it wasn't in a bank, and it wouldn't be trackable.. Should we abolish money as well then? Point is, having the ability to track currency is portrait as a good thing, but that is a fallacy. All tracking any form of currency is for government control, and that's the only real purpose.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,399
15,618
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People can steal millions in cash if it wasn't in a bank, and it wouldn't be trackable.. Should we abolish money as well then? Point is, having the ability to track currency is portrait as a good thing, but that is a fallacy. All tracking any form of currency is for government control, and that's the only real purpose.

Point is banks have long established audit and accounting standards they must adhere to.
Crypto not so much imo.
What is the benefit of crypto to a normal guy like me? What will more crypto do to improve my life?
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
68,643
26,244
136
After this spiel, I'll give you a simple answer. This is opaque as shit to 99% of the human race. Do you want to use a form of exchange that nobody understands.
Can you explain just block chain in less than 100 words.
Dude, blockchain will free the masses from the elites! it's simple.

1) Totally not elites create blockchains.
2)
3)
4) Free masses!
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,326
249
106
After this spiel, I'll give you a simple answer. This is opaque as shit to 99% of the human race. Do you want to use a form of exchange that nobody understands.
Can you explain just block chain in less than 100 words.

And this right here is the problem, and the coming downfall of our race. People expect to put no effort in to understand something new. This is part of why we have QAnon, anti-vaxxers, etc. Because it's easy to do nothing. It's easy to read the interesting click-bait on how Bitcoin was used to steal millions, etc. It's easy to hate, it's easy to bash. It's a form of release - I get it.

And no I cannot explain blockchain in less than 100 words. If that's what you need, then you deserve to stay poor and/or keep complaining about politics and other issues not going your way. Now could I explain to how to use one in less than 100 words? Sure.

Point is banks have long established audit and accounting standards they must adhere to.
Crypto not so much imo.
What is the benefit of crypto to a normal guy like me? What will more crypto do to improve my life?

It's not about you right now. It's not about improving your life right this very second. Though I'll take the bait anyway for right now: your crypto is not tied to your identity. So if your ID is flat out stolen, and some drains your banks, brokerages, etc... your crypto - assuming you are properly storing it on something like a hardware wallet, is safe. You can do this with physical gold too, but I'd rather have something that's liquid like crypto. Additionally physical gold can be stolen too... but a private key can be memorized. Is it the improvement you want or care about right now? Probably not, but for me it's worth having an ultimate failsafe.

Now since I answered your question I expect one in return: what is crypto doing that is hurting your life? Causing GPU shortages so you can't play the latest useless game at 200fps?
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,399
15,618
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And this right here is the problem, and the coming downfall of our race. People expect to put no effort in to understand something new. This is part of why we have QAnon, anti-vaxxers, etc. Because it's easy to do nothing. It's easy to read the interesting click-bait on how Bitcoin was used to steal millions, etc.

No I cannot explain blockchain in less than 100 words. If that's what you need, then you deserve to stay poor and/or keep complaining about politics and other issues not going your way.



It's not about you right now. It's not about improving your life right this second. Though I'll take the bait anyway for right now: your crypto is not tied to your identity. So if your ID is flat out stolen, and some drains your banks, brokerages, etc... your crypto - assuming you are properly storing it on something like a hardware wallet, is safe. You can do this with physical gold too, but I'd rather have something that's liquid like crypto. Additionally physical gold can be stolen too... but a private key can be memorized.

Now since I answered your question I expect one in return: what is crypto doing that is hurting your life?

I need to digest what you said. As of now I don’t see any real benefit to crypto in the theft sense but I promise I will think it over.
BYW Private keys can be lost by death or just forgetting them.

What crypto is doing that hurts my life:
Extreme energy usage in some coins certainly hits my electric bill
Lack of video cards really sucks particularly if like a friend of mine your card died
Ultimately my card will die
Crypto has encouraged ransomware to a certain extent. This hasn’t impacted me yet but it certainly is possible.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,302
136
I saw Brian's tweet on Saturday and already sent my email to Jon Ossoff, who is my Congressman. But you're wasting your time trying to inform the people here. They are not rational people. They're more like pack of rabid dogs without the ability to learn or think. They are happy to be chained up wage slaves forever. They don't care about their freedom. They only care about more government handouts and more government control. It's ironic and sad they're supporting the very elites who are trying to keep them down. And people here are padding themselves on the back while doing it not even realizing the harm they're causing to themselves.

The smart people will figure out way around this roadblock. Too many smart people are devoting their lives to advancement of crypto to let this fully stop them.


The surest sign that you've already lost an argument should be when you're arguing that everyone who disagrees with you is a sheep who hates their own freedom and has willingly enslaved themselves to a conspiracy theory elite.
Because that argument is not rational.

Meanwhile, the arguments that cryptocurrencies are highly speculative and provide convenient avenues for criminal activities, such as money laundering, are quite rational.
I'm no crypto hater, but you're not winning me over with your emotional BS (which I suspect you're actually doing to pump your crypto investments). Try harder to make a rational argument if you expect smart people to buy.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,302
136
So how many of you are pro-vax because of science and data (that you most likely don't understand), but are anti-crypto because you don't understand the science and data behind it?

Oops - the hypocrisy.
The science and data behind blockchain are separate from blockchain's use as cryptocurrency.
That said, I'm actually on your side with regards to the Senate vote.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,150
10,082
136
Not to worry about your investments, it ain't going in this bill. Thune is pissed. He said he will be back with another try later.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,326
249
106
The science and data behind blockchain are separate from blockchain's use as cryptocurrency.
That said, I'm actually on your side with regards to the Senate vote.

To an extent - cryptocurrency is partly tied to the technology because it is the reward. Without Bitcoin or Ethereum tokens, etc - you still need some token or some "digit" to represent a form of payment/reward for processing and validating transactions and blockchain history. This is because as many know running such a network requires resources and costs money.

Without the incentive of reward from the cryptocurrency, the technology may never have been adopted. It was not possible to code the dollar or anything else of tangible value when this was launched as an experiment by Satsohi. And it took off and here we are today. Bitcoin and more so Ethereum are now the level-1 layers that will power and most importantly secure, everything that will built on top of them. They are the most secure financial networks exist - and so one could argue they now have an insane amount of tangible value: Bitcoin and Ethereum have value because you need Bitcoin and Ethereum to power the most secure financial settlement networks that exist.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,225
46,800
136
And this right here is the problem, and the coming downfall of our race. People expect to put no effort in to understand something new. This is part of why we have QAnon, anti-vaxxers, etc. Because it's easy to do nothing. It's easy to read the interesting click-bait on how Bitcoin was used to steal millions, etc. It's easy to hate, it's easy to bash. It's a form of release - I get it.

And no I cannot explain blockchain in less than 100 words. If that's what you need, then you deserve to stay poor and/or keep complaining about politics and other issues not going your way. Now could I explain to how to use one in less than 100 words? Sure.



It's not about you right now. It's not about improving your life right this very second. Though I'll take the bait anyway for right now: your crypto is not tied to your identity. So if your ID is flat out stolen, and some drains your banks, brokerages, etc... your crypto - assuming you are properly storing it on something like a hardware wallet, is safe. You can do this with physical gold too, but I'd rather have something that's liquid like crypto. Additionally physical gold can be stolen too... but a private key can be memorized. Is it the improvement you want or care about right now? Probably not, but for me it's worth having an ultimate failsafe.

Now since I answered your question I expect one in return: what is crypto doing that is hurting your life? Causing GPU shortages so you can't play the latest useless game at 200fps?
Money in bank accounts is insured in a way a crypto wallet is not. If someone steals your identity in many cases you can get your money back. If someone steals your crypto wallet you’re just screwed. It’s way worse for the average Joe.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,326
249
106
Lack of video cards really sucks particularly if like a friend of mine your card died
Ultimately my card will die

Well as I mentioned before, if you beef for this then fine. But rest assured the crypto world is moving away from PoW. I expect this last round to be the last time we experience GPU shortages as once Ethereum goes proof-of-stake, the only standing PoW coins will be Bitcoin (ASIC), Litecoin (ASIC) and maybe Monero (doesn't mine well on a GPU).
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,225
46,800
136
I am still waiting for any use of cryptocurrency that’s better than what we have except for crime. It seems to lose on stability, energy efficiency, transaction costs, etc.

It’s also weird to me that Bitcoin enthusiasts get excited by price increases. To me this indicates they view it as a speculative investment and not a currency because increases in price mean it’s undergoing a massive deflationary spiral, which is a catastrophe for any real currency.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
68,643
26,244
136
It’s also weird to me that Bitcoin enthusiasts get excited by price increases. To me this indicates they view it as a speculative investment and not a currency because increases in price mean it’s undergoing a massive deflationary spiral, which is a catastrophe for any real currency.
It's like nineteenth century banking never happened.
 

kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
6,015
1,321
136
So how many of you are pro-vax because of science and data (that you most likely don't understand), but are anti-crypto because you don't understand the science and data behind it?

Oops - the hypocrisy.
That's a strawman. It is perfectly fine for someone to understand the science and not support certain applications of it. For example, a chemist not supporting chemical warfare.
 
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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
57,861
11,991
136
Interesting that science communicators can break down complicated things like various quantum mechanical theories for the layperson, but GFY if you want a simple explanation of why you should care about blockchain tech, just support my legislation you fuckin' sheep!
 
Nov 17, 2019
10,522
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Apparently something happened ... or didn't happen. But I'm not sure I know ... or care what.

Senate Rejects Change To New Crypto Tax Rules In $1.2 Trillion Infrastructure Bill Despite Lawmaker, Billionaire Pushback

www.forbes.com.ico
Forbes | 2 hours ago
With a tight morning deadline, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer has yet to say whether he'll hold a vote for any new amendments.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,326
249
106
Interesting that science communicators can break down complicated things like various quantum mechanical theories for the layperson, but GFY if you want a simple explanation of why you should care about blockchain tech, just support my legislation you fuckin' sheep!

Yes, I'm sure Miku Kaku can come explain String Theory or quantum theories in ~100 words and have it even be remotely close to accurate.

:Sigh:

This is the only/last time I'm saying this: this isn't just about blockchain tech. I don't care if you don't like Bitcoin. I really don't. Understand this: it blocks freedom of innovation of technology within that space.

You should very much care about our politicians blocking innovation of any tech which is not inherently bad or evil. Do you really think this bill will stop all of the bad things like laundering or ransoms happening within the US? I guarantee those will keep happening and come from outside of ours borders. And then what? All of that bad stuff stays because when do criminals ever follow the law? And all the good that can come from this tech gets suppressed or moved overseas.

To lose technology that makes information open and transparent while being completely trusted in that its not possible to tamper or change the ruleset (unless consensus agrees upon it) is a huge, huge loss. Literally every problem, scandal you read about in the news today comes from the following: breaking the rules, database compromises, not being transparent about what is being done and keeping things behind closed doors, deleting records, incomplete records, sources that can't be trusted, etc. Blockchain fixes ALL of these at once. Let me repeat that: ALL of these. That is why you should care. And that is how this tech will make the world a better and more fair place for everyone.

But if you ignore this, then don't ever complain about another politician, billionaire, or Wall Street pulling any shady **** in the future when we "had" the tech foundations to to start changing all of that right now.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,225
46,800
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Yes, I'm sure Miku Kaku can come explain String Theory or quantum theories in ~100 words and have it even be remotely close ot accurate.

:Sigh:

This is the only/last time I'm saying this: this isn't just about blockchain tech. I don't care if you don't like Bitcoin. I really don't. Understand this: it blocks freedom of innovation of technology within that space.

You should very much care about our politicians blocking innovation of any tech which is not inherently bad or evil. Do you really think this bill will stop all of the bad things like laundering or ransoms happening within the US? I guarantee those will keep happening and come from outside of ours borders. And then what? All of that bad stuff stays because when do criminals ever follow the law? And all the good that can come from this tech gets suppressed or moved overseas.
Still waiting for you to provide a use case other than crime.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,399
15,618
136
Yes, I'm sure Miku Kaku can come explain String Theory or quantum theories in ~100 words and have it even be remotely close ot accurate.

:Sigh:

This is the only/last time I'm saying this: this isn't just about blockchain tech. I don't care if you don't like Bitcoin. I really don't. Understand this: it blocks freedom of innovation of technology within that space.

You should very much care about our politicians blocking innovation of any tech which is not inherently bad or evil. Do you really think this bill will stop all of the bad things like laundering or ransoms happening within the US? I guarantee those will keep happening and come from outside of ours borders. And then what? All of that bad stuff stays because when do criminals ever follow the law? And all the good that can come from this tech gets suppressed or moved overseas.

To lose technology that makes information open and transparent while being completely trusted in that its not possible to tamper or change the ruleset (unless consensus agrees upon it) is a huge, huge loss. Literally every problem, scandal you read about in the news today comes from the following: breaking the rules, database compromises, not being transparent about what is being done and keeping things behind closed doors, deleting records, incomplete records, sources that can't be trusted, etc. Blockchain fixes ALL of these at once. Let me repeat that: ALL of these. That is why you should care. And that is how this tech will make the world a better and more fair place for everyone.

But if you ignore this, then don't ever complain about another politician or billionaire pulling any shady **** in the future when we "had" the tech foundations to to start changing all of that right now.

But hey don't listen me. I've only followed this tech since 2013 and am just a "speculator" according to many.

How did the two recent high school graduates run off with 2.2 billion with all these controls?
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,326
249
106
Still waiting for you to provide a use case other than crime.

This is my final statement on the matter. I'm not here to convince to buy or use Bitcoin, or blockchain tech in general. So here you go:

But if you ignore this, then don't ever complain about another politician, billionaire, or Wall Street pulling any shady **** in the future when we "had" the tech foundations to to start changing all of that right now.


How did the two recent high school graduates run off with 2.2 billion with all these controls?

Lack of education and stupid people. Because I guarantee you no one other than myself has access to my crypto.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
57,861
11,991
136
I read through OP again, and I looked at this again:
"The problem with this bill is this: anyone transacting anything over $10K on any blockchain would need to KYC/AML report the transaction to the IRS. This would mean that you could no longer sell something like a NFT to someone in another country for say $20K worth of Ethereum, unless you KYC/AML that person and then report that transaction to the IRS: This is simply is not possible on trustless smart-contracts networks right now. It may be in the future if our identities become digitized onto these networks. However, one of the great things about crypto is the ability to transact with billions of other people while remaining pseudo-anonymous. "

I'm supposed to be upset about people making transactions over $10k with crypto having to report that transaction to the IRS? Or I'm supposed to be upset because not all crypto can do that right now, but maybe it can later? Frankly, I see exactly zero value in a "great thing" about crypo being that I can transact with billions of other people while remaining pseudo-anonymous.
 
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