Crypto and HR 3684 - urgent attention needed from all!

[njdevilsfan87]

I guess nobody is really following this, but this is a pretty big deal: the $1T, ~2700 page long infrastructure bill is hung up because of a few lines regarding some damaging future provisions and requirements for crypto.

I'm all for regulations and playing fair, and paying our taxes, but this not good from our "leaders":

Coinbase has more on this here: https://p2a.co/y19AJ6V, as well as a quick way to get in touch with your local offices to voice your opinion.

Contact your senator to vote YES on the Wyden-Lummis-Toomey amendment and NO on the Warner-Portman amendment
The Warner amendment is anti-technology and anti-innovation.
A vote for the Warner amendment would be irresponsible and dangerous to America’s national security.

1. Any narrative that this is a compromise on the Wyden-Lummis-Toomey amendment is false. This Warner amendment does not address the shortcomings of the bill. The Warner amendment is worse than the existing text of the bill.
2. Without any consideration or explanation, it picks one crypto protocol and condemns others to be crushed under impossible burdens. The United States has succeeded in becoming a leader in innovation because it regulates activities, not specific technologies, and it does so neutrally. It is one thing to regulate (or exempt from regulation) distributed ledger validators, but it is wholly another to pick one winner among different types of validation technologies.
3. Sen. Warner’s amendment would kill Ethereum and other proof-of-stake protocols. Ethereum is the leading smart-contract platform on the internet that enables countless use cases that provide cheaper, more inclusive services to Americans. It’s like killing the World Wide Web in its infancy.
4. Sen. Warner’s amendment would drive away all innovation to outside of the United States. By favoring proof-of-work (the oldest consensus method) in statute, Sen. Warner’s amendment locks the U.S. into one technology. This is like picking which of the early protocols would form the backbone of the Internet. Proof of work was the first validation method invented; that doesn’t mean that it is the one that will be most useful/successful. Why should the IRS put its thumb on the scale?
5. US leadership in digital finance is critical to America’s future and our leadership over China. Removing protections for software developers in the Wyden-Lummis-Toomey amendment is a direct push to have crypto development and innovation take place outside the US.

If you are a hater of crypto or just don't care about it, fine, but before you decide to agree or sit neutral with the provisions in this bill: take note of the following facts.

1. Bitcoin and other carbon burning proof-of-work networks are exempt. What this bill ends up hurting are the smart-contract platforms like Ethereum, and low carbon output networks like Cardano, Polkadot, Solana, Tezos, etc that are smart-contract and blockchain technology in general. Thus, this has absolutely nothing to do with crypto being a power hog. It does nothing for climate collapse, and in fact hinders efforts to reduce carbon outputs of decentralized systems.
2. This is a direct removal of freedom. Smart-contract technology isn't inherently bad. In fact its one of the greatest technological inventions in the past few years. The future of the internet may be built on top of something like a low carbon output proof-of-stake Ethereum network. It's taking time, but the difference between crypto in 2011 and 2021 is huge. For example, we are on the verge of having the ownership of all sorts of physical assets secured and traded on open and transparent blockchains via something like NFTs (I personally estimate 2023-2024 for this to start to become a little more mainstream).
3. Politicians tried to sneak this in a massive bill with just a few lines of provisions. What does crypto have to do with a $1T infrastructure bill of roads, transit, etc!? Luckily we have a few on our side who caught this. If this had gone through as-is: innovation in the blockchain space would have effectively been killed within the US, and their plan to receive taxable income from crypto will have completely backfired as people stop using the technology within our borders.

Mark Cuban says shutting off crypto 'growth engine' would be like banning e-commerce in 1995 as debate rages over infrastructure bill




The problem with this bill is this: anyone transacting anything over ($10K I believe) on any blockchain would need to KYC/AML report the transaction to the IRS. And this is not a case of a singular transaction either.

In a "dumb example", this would mean that you could no longer sell something like a NFT to someone in another country for $20K worth of Ethereum, unless you KYC/AML that person and then report that transaction to the IRS: This is simply is not possible on trustless smart-contracts networks. Maybe it will be in the future if our identities become digitized onto these networks. However, one of the great things about crypto is the ability to transact digital assets with billions of other people around the world without intermediaries while remaining pseudo-anonymous. By allowing this bill to go through right now as-is, things like DeFi become illegal within the US.

My main rant: the new business I'd like to launch late this or early next year that is planned to be powered by smart-contract technology could be made DOA by this bill. I will quote those from another reply because I don't want to keep repeating this:

To lose technology that makes information open and transparent while being completely trusted in that its not possible to tamper or change the ruleset (unless consensus agrees upon it) is a huge, huge loss. Literally every problem, scandal you read about in the news today comes from the following: breaking the rules, database compromises, not being transparent about what is being done and keeping things behind closed doors, deleting records, incomplete records, sources that can't be trusted, etc. Blockchain fixes ALL of these at once. Let me repeat that: ALL of these. That is why you should care. And that is how this tech will make the world a better and more fair place for everyone.

But if you ignore this, then don't ever complain about another politician, billionaire, or Wall Street pulling any shady **** in the future when we "had" the tech foundations to to start changing all of that right now.

 

[herm0016]

also, vote gold.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Don’t agree. Crypto is highly speculative and needs regulation. Energy hog crypto needs to go.
While it didn’t happen in the US as of now I could easily imagine it happening here.

Simple summary:
Couple of young guys basically fresh out of teen tears walk off with 2.2 billion in crypto and guess what there is no way of tracking these coins. Investors lose all.

South African Brothers Disappear, Along With $2.2 Billion Worth Of Bitcoin

The founding brothers of cryptocurrency investment platform Africrypt are nowhere to be found and neither is $2.2 billion worth of their client’s bitcoin.

www.forbes.com

Not to mention EVERY hack demands crypto payment.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Ban VaporBux.

 

[HomerJS]

I've been trying to buy a GPU for months so I have a bias.

 

[fskimospy]

Cryptocurrency serves no purpose other than to enable criminal activity. We already have perfectly good systems for verifying ownership that cost much less.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Cryptocurrency serves no purpose other than to enable criminal activity. We already have perfectly good systems for verifying ownership that cost much less.

We already have perfectly good systems for enabling criminal activity that cost much less. Some call them gift cards.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Cryptocurrency serves no purpose other than to enable criminal activity. We already have perfectly good systems for verifying ownership that cost much less.

Read above. Two brothers basically fresh out of high school steal 2.2 Billion of investors money that was in crypto.
Two billion.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Expecting better from a tech forum, but for the sake of being the OP, here are the counterpoints:

1. GPU shortages: Fair to be upset about. But Ethereum is moving to proof-of-stake in the future. No Gen 3.0 blockchains are proof-of-work. Thus PoW outside of Bitcoin, which is ASIC driven anyway, is a dying breed. This should be the last of GPU shortages we will ever see because it is very unlikely crypto is going to backtrack to PoW unless this bill passes.
2. Criminal activity: this asinine argument again in 2021. You've had a decade to understand that not your keys = not your coins. I and millions of other users that understand that simple concept have had no problems on the blockchain. There's a clear IQ problem with people in general as evident by the pandemic response, but education and not suppression should be the path forward.
3. Good systems already in place to verify ownership: So this means we should stop innovating to make better ones? And FWIW - nothing centralized can possibly be better than an efficient decentralized consensus algorithm (Gen 3.0 blockchains), as well distributed decentralized systems remove all security holes present within centralized ones. And what is a better proof or verification of ownership? An NFT on the Ethereum blockchain or something on a company's or government's centralized database? The NFT is and it's not even close. Not to mention the tamper-proof blockchain is open and transparent, whereas centralized databases are not.


What all of you who don't DYOR fail to realize is that blockchains being adopted (and cryptocurrency is the necessity that powers them as they are built-in to pay for transaction and contract fees) mean there are no more games being played behind the scenes. There is no more naked shorting of assets like GME. There is no more printing of trillions of dollars or mis-management of funds without the public knowing the fine details. We could build election networks on top of the Ethereum network: no more fraud or even potential election fraud.


But hey if you trust your politicians and billionaires with the centralized systems we have in place as it is today, by all means, stop this innovation. This will be one of those things you don't realize you've lost until after it's gone. And there won't be a way out then: you'll own nothing, have no chance to own anything, and you will be happy - that's our children's future.

 

[thilanliyan]

Cryptocurrency serves no purpose other than to enable criminal activity. We already have perfectly good systems for verifying ownership that cost much less.

You sure?

The False Narrative Of Bitcoin’s Role In Illicit Activity

The majority of cryptocurrency is not used for criminal activity. According to an excerpt from Chainalysis’ 2021 report, in 2020, criminal activity only represented .34% of all cryptocurrency transaction volume.

www.forbes.com

Criminals getting smarter in use of digital currencies to launder money

Criminals are becoming more sophisticated in their use of cryptocurrencies to launder money, with hundreds of millions of dollars of dirty funds last year flowing through digital wallets that allow users to hide their trail, according to Elliptic.

www.reuters.com

"While the total volume of illicit activity in crypto assets has grown in absolute terms over the years, it accounts for less than 1% of all digital transactions, down from 35% in 2012, according to Elliptic."

Criminal activity is still mostly conducted using regular currency.

 

[snoopy7548]

I've been trying to buy a GPU for months so I have a bias.

For me it's hard drives...

 

[darkswordsman17]

It shouldn't have anything related to crypto in it, unless its significant tax and fines and seizure for not claiming and paying taxes on crypto assets. I'm fine with crypto staying around as long as it actually follows tax code. And before one of you crypto-evangelists says anything, yes, stocks should similarly be taxed and its fucking absurd that they aren't.

Also, OP, spare me your shit about crypto. I've heard every angle, and its all been total bullshit so far. Also, really shut the fuck up if you think the wealthy aren't profiting like mad off of morons like you pumping crypto values.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Also, OP, spare me your shit about crypto. I've heard every angle, and its all been total bullshit so far. Also, really shut the fuck up if you think the wealthy aren't profiting like mad off of morons like you pumping crypto values.

Can average Joe go take out a loan at the same rate that an elite can in our traditional markets? No? How about in DeFi land? Are they both subject to the same liquidation rules? What's that - yes?! So the game is more fair in crypto land?!? Sit down.

Oh FWIW - I've already "got mine", bill or no bill, because I had the foresight to see this back in 2013, and especially once Ethereum came along. This is partly to help educate you on what you're losing out on because you're too simple to DYOR and understand why some individuals are calling it the Internet 2.0. And yes I've got my own agendas too - as I stated in the OP I plan to launch a new business that takes advantage of smart contract technology either late this year or early next year. A business that has nothing to do with pump and dump shitcoins.

But hey, you keeping doing what works (or hasn't been working) for you. Keep skimming those headlines and seeing Bitcoin and money-laundering. If you actually did your own research you'd see that there's a lot more to crypto than pump and dump shitcoins. Because I'm sure you know - good news isn't what gets the clicks.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You sure?

The False Narrative Of Bitcoin’s Role In Illicit Activity

The majority of cryptocurrency is not used for criminal activity. According to an excerpt from Chainalysis’ 2021 report, in 2020, criminal activity only represented .34% of all cryptocurrency transaction volume.

www.forbes.com

Criminals getting smarter in use of digital currencies to launder money

Criminals are becoming more sophisticated in their use of cryptocurrencies to launder money, with hundreds of millions of dollars of dirty funds last year flowing through digital wallets that allow users to hide their trail, according to Elliptic.

www.reuters.com

"While the total volume of illicit activity in crypto assets has grown in absolute terms over the years, it accounts for less than 1% of all digital transactions, down from 35% in 2012, according to Elliptic."

Criminal activity is still mostly conducted using regular currency.

This stat was debunked in the other thread but even if true comparing Someone buying a stolen steak from a white van with cash is not exactly the same crime as someone crippling a power plant and demanding crypto payment.

 

[hal2kilo]

I guess nobody is really following this, but this is a pretty big deal: the $1T, ~2700 page long infrastructure bill is hung up because of a few lines regarding some damaging future provisions and requirements for crypto.

I'm all for regulations and playing fair, and paying our taxes, but this not good from our "leaders":

Coinbase has more on this here: https://p2a.co/y19AJ6V, as well as a quick way to get in touch with your local offices to voice your opinion.



If you are a hater of crypto or just don't care about it, fine, but before you decide to agree or sit neutral with the provisions in this bill: take note of the following facts.

1. Bitcoin and other carbon burning proof-of-work networks are exempt. What this bill ends up hurting are the smart-contract platforms like Ethereum, and low carbon output networks like Cardano, Polkadot, Solana, Tezos, etc that are smart-contract and blockchain technology in general. Thus, this has absolutely nothing to do with crypto being a power hog. It does nothing for climate collapse, and in fact hinders efforts to reduce carbon outputs of decentralized systems.
2. This is a direct removal of freedom. Smart-contract technology isn't inherently bad. In fact its one of the greatest technological inventions in the past few years. The future of the internet may be built on top of something like a low carbon output proof-of-stake Ethereum network. It's taking time, but the difference between crypto in 2011 and 2021 is huge. For example, we are on the verge of having the ownership of all sorts of physical assets secured and traded on open and transparent blockchains via something like NFTs (I personally estimate 2023-2024 for this to start to become a little more mainstream).
3. Politicians tried to sneak this in a massive bill with just a few lines of provisions. What does crypto have to do with a $1T infrastructure bill of roads, transit, etc!? Luckily we have a few on our side who caught this. If this had gone through as-is: innovation in the blockchain space would have effectively been killed within the US, and their plan to receive taxable income from crypto will have completely backfired as people stop using the technology within our borders.

Mark Cuban says shutting off crypto 'growth engine' would be like banning e-commerce in 1995 as debate rages over infrastructure bill



The problem with this bill is this: anyone transacting anything over $10K on any blockchain would need to KYC/AML report the transaction to the IRS. This would mean that you could no longer sell something like a NFT to someone in another country for say $20K worth of Ethereum, unless you KYC/AML that person and then report that transaction to the IRS: This is simply is not possible on trustless smart-contracts networks right now. It may be in the future if our identities become digitized onto these networks. However, one of the great things about crypto is the ability to transact with billions of other people while remaining pseudo-anonymous. By allowing this bill to go through right now, things like DeFi basically become illegal within the US. DeFi is a growing result of smart-contract technology. DeFi is... freedom. Freedom from centralized power and the removal of barriers and intermediaries.


My main rant: the new business I'd like to launch late this or early next year that is planned to be powered by smart-contract technology could be made DOA by this bill. So they can go take that money printer and their $1T, and shove it up their asses while I get to go pay another 30% markup on my groceries as they try to destroy one of the best hedges against inflation and poor monetary policy, and innovation of a great technology for their own personal agendas and control.

Nice tool for money laundering. No.

 

[Moonbeam]

Mining bitcoin, what a joke.

 

[HomerJS]

I seem to remember an example of widely used decentralized currency were tulip bulbs

 

[ponyo]

I saw Brian's tweet on Saturday and already sent my email to Jon Ossoff, who is my Congressman. But you're wasting your time trying to inform the people here. They are not rational people. They're more like pack of rabid dogs without the ability to learn or think. They are happy to be chained up wage slaves forever. They don't care about their freedom. They only care about more government handouts and more government control. It's ironic and sad they're supporting the very elites who are trying to keep them down. And people here are padding themselves on the back while doing it not even realizing the harm they're causing to themselves.

The smart people will figure out way around this roadblock. Too many smart people are devoting their lives to advancement of crypto to let this fully stop them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1423744994444206092

 

[repoman0]

I saw Brian's tweet on Saturday and already sent my email to Jon Ossoff, who is my Congressman. But you're wasting your time trying to inform the people here. They are not rational people. They're more like pack of rabid dogs without the ability to learn or think. They are happy to be chained up wage slaves forever. They don't care about their freedom. They only care about more government handouts and more government control. It's ironic and sad they're supporting the very elites who are trying to keep them down. And people here are padding themselves on the back while doing it not even realizing the harm they're causing to themselves.

The smart people will figure out way around this roadblock. Too many smart people are devoting their lives to advancement of crypto to let this fully stop them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1423744994444206092

Classic emotional unhinged post without a coherent argument and with all the meaningless tropes — elites, wage slaves, freedom, government handouts. Especially funny that people who post here are on average very well off. Sorry to see that your retirement is already turning your brain to mush, ponyo. Sadly happens to many people, let’s hope it doesn’t accelerate.

 

[hal2kilo]

Classic emotional unhinged post without a coherent argument and with all the meaningless tropes — elites, wage slaves, freedom, government handouts. Especially funny that people who post here are on average very well off. Sorry to see that your retirement is already turning your brain to mush, ponyo. Sadly happens to many people, let’s hope it doesn’t accelerate.

A sleeper libertarian.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

So how many of you are pro-vax because of science and data (that you most likely don't understand), but are anti-crypto because you don't understand the science and data behind it?

Oops - the hypocrisy.

 

[KMFJD]

well if the crypto guys are getting upset then i'm just standing on the sidelines enjoying it

 

[Fanatical Meat]

So how many of you are pro-vax because of science and data (that you most likely don't understand), but are anti-crypto because you don't understand the science and data behind it?

Oops - the hypocrisy.

Seriously I’ll listen and consider. Please give me an example where crypto will improve my life. Not a transactional one time thing but something that helps me out long term.

Please avoid super improbable scenarios like hyper inflation or devaluations that have never happened to US currency in history.

I would love to learn what a long term benefit of crypto could be.

 

[Leeea]

I read the first post and was left confused.

I did however contact both of my senators and let them know exactly how I felt* on the matter.


*That all cryptocurrency should be banned, as it is only used by tax evaders, criminals, and speculators

 

[hal2kilo]

Expecting better from a tech forum, but for the sake of being the OP, here are the counterpoints:

1. GPU shortages: Fair to be upset about. But Ethereum is moving to proof-of-stake in the future. No Gen 3.0 blockchains are proof-of-work. Thus PoW outside of Bitcoin, which is ASIC driven anyway, is a dying breed. This should be the last of GPU shortages we will ever see because it is very unlikely crypto is going to backtrack to PoW unless this bill passes.
2. Criminal activity: this asinine argument again in 2021. You've had a decade to understand that not your keys = not your coins. I and millions of other users that understand that simple concept have had no problems on the blockchain. There's a clear IQ problem with people in general as evident by the pandemic response, but education and not suppression should be the path forward.
3. Good systems already in place to verify ownership: So this means we should stop innovating to make better ones? And FWIW - nothing centralized can possibly be better than an efficient decentralized consensus algorithm (Gen 3.0 blockchains), as well distributed decentralized systems remove all security holes present within centralized ones. And what is a better proof or verification of ownership? An NFT on the Ethereum blockchain or something on a company's or government's centralized database? The NFT is and it's not even close. Not to mention the tamper-proof blockchain is open and transparent, whereas centralized databases are not.


What all of you who don't DYOR fail to realize is that blockchains being adopted (and cryptocurrency is the necessity that powers them as they are built-in to pay for transaction and contract fees) mean there are no more games being played behind the scenes. There is no more naked shorting of assets like GME. There is no more printing of trillions of dollars or mis-management of funds without the public knowing the fine details. We could build election networks on top of the Ethereum network: no more fraud or even potential election fraud.


But hey if you trust your politicians and billionaires with the centralized systems we have in place as it is today, by all means, stop this innovation. This will be one of those things you don't realize you've lost until after it's gone. And there won't be a way out then: you'll own nothing, have no chance to own anything, and you will be happy - that's our children's future.

After this spiel, I'll give you a simple answer. This is opaque as shit to 99% of the human race. Do you want to use a form of exchange that nobody understands.
Can you explain just block chain in less than 100 words.