Critical Race Theory Is The Left’s QAnon

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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
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Again, what's wrong with that - as long as we're talking about mandatory K-12?

Again, I'm fine with college/university in the right context.

We don't teach based on theories. Flat earth is a theory, can we teach based on that? How about some scientology while we're at it?
We absolutely teach theories. Theories are well supported and the best scientific understanding we have. Gravity is a theory, quantum mechanics and relativity are theories.

Flat earth is an unsupported hypothesis.

What you posted above makes you sound like you don’t know what you are talking about. It was like coming into a thread on guns and saying you wanted to buy a 30 round clip for your AR15 instead of a magazine

If you’d like to posit Critical Race Theory isn’t supported by enough evidence to be a “theory” have at it. You’d need to understand what it is first and what predictions it makes of course.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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If you want to argue that systemic racism in the US is theoretical that certainly something you can do.
You're really getting to the point of the bottom rung. You're better than that.
b6e3f37ecdf029cdef2fa98e9232d32d.jpg
 
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We absolutely teach theories. Theories are well supported and the best scientific understanding we have. Gravity is a theory, quantum mechanics and relativity are theories.

Flat earth is an unsupported hypothesis.

What you posted above makes you sound like you don’t know what you are talking about. It was like coming into a thread on guns and saying you wanted to buy a 30 round clip for your AR15 instead of a magazine

If you’d like to posit Critical Race Theory isn’t supported by enough evidence to be a “theory” have at it. You’d need to understand what it is first and what predictions it makes of course.

Flat Earth is an outright debunked hypothesis.

Sorry your analogy sucks. Hard. While its probably better than whatever moronic racist garbage the person you're responding to posted, it still sucks. Call it what it is. He's calling teaching about the mistreatment of non-white persons in this country as being worse than what was done to them, which included outright genocide. He's objectively simply wrong and his insistence to claim otherwise just shows that he's chosen to ignore reality in order to support his racism. If you want a gun analogy its him blowing his dick off with shotgun pellets made of dehydrated shit while screaming that black people are coming to blow his dick off.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,602
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You're really getting to the point of the bottom rung. You're better than that.
b6e3f37ecdf029cdef2fa98e9232d32d.jpg

Anything that makes white people uncomfortable about he black experience, historical or current, is now CRT regardless of if it actually is or not. 99.9% of people could not tell you what CRT was with a gun to their head, it's just a stand in for something much older.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,935
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Anything that makes white people uncomfortable about he black experience, historical or current, is now CRT regardless of if it actually is or not. 99.9% of people could not tell you what CRT was with a gun to their head, it's just a stand in for something much older.
I mean it’s pretty clear that 99.9% includes the guy you are talking to. He clearly has no idea what it is.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,631
15,820
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Flat Earth is an outright debunked hypothesis.

Sorry your analogy sucks. Hard. While its probably better than whatever moronic racist garbage the person you're responding to posted, it still sucks. Call it what it is. He's calling teaching about the mistreatment of non-white persons in this country as being worse than what was done to them, which included outright genocide. He's objectively simply wrong and his insistence to claim otherwise just shows that he's chosen to ignore reality in order to support his racism. If you want a gun analogy its him blowing his dick off with shotgun pellets made of dehydrated shit while screaming that black people are coming to blow his dick off.
I’m fine calling it a debunked hypothesis. Technically however it would have met the criteria to be a workable theory for a couple of thousand years until the Greeks showed up. Over every day distances back then it made useful predictions and modeled reality well enough. Of course anyone promoting it today has shit brains.

The gun metaphor really wasn’t for you but try and use a conservative metaphor that might mean something to him. Remember how conservatives feel about people who use the wrong terms for guns? It’s like how we feel when a redneck spouts racist epithets. ;)
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Then why are you concerned about calls to not teach it?
I don't believe anyone is concerned about calls to not teach it. What people are concerned about is this deranged, dishonest, and racially divisive propaganda (which you are helping to spread) misrepresenting CRT as something entirely different from what it actually is.
Real CRT is the discussion around, for example, how the past govt policy of redlining in housing has adversely affected black homeownership today.
CRT is not this racist fearmongering bullshit of teaching kids to "hate whitey" that your ilk is dishonestly spreading. IOW we're concerned about your racially divisive lies.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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I don't believe anyone is concerned about calls to not teach it. What people are concerned about is this deranged, dishonest, and racially divisive propaganda (which you are helping to spread) misrepresenting CRT as something entirely different from what it actually is.
Real CRT is the discussion around, for example, how the past govt policy of redlining in housing has adversely affected black homeownership today.
CRT is not this racist fearmongering bullshit of teaching kids to "hate whitey" that your ilk is dishonestly spreading. IOW we're concerned about your racially divisive lies.

I think it's troubling that Politicians can just insert themselves into what gets taught in Schools. Especially when it's purely for Ideological reasons.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,290
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I don't believe anyone is concerned about calls to not teach it. What people are concerned about is this deranged, dishonest, and racially divisive propaganda (which you are helping to spread) misrepresenting CRT as something entirely different from what it actually is.
Real CRT is the discussion around, for example, how the past govt policy of redlining in housing has adversely affected black homeownership today.
CRT is not this racist fearmongering bullshit of teaching kids to "hate whitey" that your ilk is dishonestly spreading. IOW we're concerned about your racially divisive lies.
He doesn't know what he thinks about it. However he does know what he is told to say about it.

Regurgitating propaganda doesn't require thought.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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If politicians can't, who can? It's literally a government ran function.
And the reason you're so concerned about teaching how past racist govt policies, such as slavery and redlining, have affected current events is?...
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
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He doesn't know what he thinks about it. However he does know what he is told to say about it.

Regurgitating propaganda doesn't require thought.

It takes a lot of thought and effort to fabricate this malicious propaganda and organize its spread, and that's what concerns me.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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I don't believe anyone is concerned about calls to not teach it. What people are concerned about is this deranged, dishonest, and racially divisive propaganda (which you are helping to spread) misrepresenting CRT as something entirely different from what it actually is.

Real CRT is the discussion around, for example, how the past govt policy of redlining in housing has adversely affected black homeownership today.

CRT is not this racist fearmongering bullshit of teaching kids to "hate whitey" that your ilk is dishonestly spreading. IOW we're concerned about your racially divisive lies.

How is it entirely different? Here's a toolkit applying the theory to higher education outcomes. The 1619 Project is the same way. For example, it ask us to look back to the plantation to understand capitalism in the US.


In 2014, we adopted a strategic plan that commits PCC to applying Critical Race Theory (CRT) as part of our business practice, policy, and decision-making. CRT is both a paradigm and a practice that challenges dominant systems on race, racism, and inequality. CRT asks us to examine how and why practices and policies were created-and who they ultimately serve-as a means of challenging insti-tutionalized forms of oppression. CRT is a theory that is still evolving and growing. We have chosen to base this work mostly on Kohli (2009)1 because this author operationalized the theory in a higher education context.

Some conclusions based on the theory, haha.

  • China has 400 million poor people because capitalism is racist
  • We need a revolution/overrthrow of government in UK
  • Any difference must be "racism"


And the reason you're so concerned about teaching how past racist govt policies, such as slavery and redlining, have affected current events is?...


When she returned with children of her own in 2018, she anticipated that they would receive the empowering, racially inclusive education she remembered. Instead she was confronted with a curriculum she deems disempowering, divisive, and ill-suited to helping students of color succeed in school.

Mboyayi: My children have always been so proud of who they are. Then all of a sudden they started to question themselves because of what they were taught after arriving here. My son has wanted to be a lawyer since he was 11. Then one day he came home and told me, “But Mommy, there are these systems put in place that prevent Black people from accomplishing anything.” That’s what they’re teaching Black kids: that all of this time for the past 400 years, this is what [white people have] done to you and your people. The narrative is, “You can’t get ahead.”

Mboyayi: One day my daughter told me she was taught that all white people are privileged and part of a system of white supremacy. My son said the same thing. So I reached out to my daughter’s teacher to find out what exactly was being taught. It was pretty much like she said: that all white people were part of this system of white supremacy, and that all white people, because of the color of their skin, had privilege. I said, “But that's not true.” And the teacher said, “Well, what do you mean?”
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
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Again, what's wrong with that - as long as we're talking about mandatory K-12?

Again, I'm fine with college/university in the right context.

We don't teach based on theories. Flat earth is a theory, can we teach based on that? How about some scientology while we're at it?
I'm always embarassed for grown adults that don't understand what a theory is within an academic setting.
 
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I'm always embarassed for grown adults that don't understand what a theory is within an academic setting.

"theory" as you refer to it - is used in reference to science - ie the scientific method. That isn't what were talking about here. That isn't what CRT is.

No such "theories" exist in the realm of history, culture, literature, etc... that are being actively taught in schools.
 
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mect

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For those that continue to argue that CRT is being taugt in our schools (or mandates are being made to require its teaching), it is impossible to teach CRT at the K-12 level. Its the equivalent of believing someone saying that states are mandating the time dependent Hamiltonian be taught in schools. Even if it were taught, kids would have no idea what was going on because they don't have the foundation to understand it. You can't just randomly decide to teach graduate level coursework to a bunch of kids.

What conservatives are really upset about is a push to provide our kids with the foundation they need to address this and other difficult topics at the graduate level if they pursue an education in that direction. Schools are being pushed to teach a more honest version of history. Conservatives want to teach that the founding fathers were saints guided by god to set up a Christian nation. Conservatives want to teach that the civil war was about states rights, and had nothing to do with slavery. Conservatives want to teach that since the civil war, people of color have been treated as equals, and all wrongs have been corrected, and any wrongs we might have inflicted were minor in comparison to how blacks treat each other.
 

mect

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Jan 5, 2004
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"theory" as you refer to it - is used in reference to science - ie the scientific method. That isn't what were talking about here. That isn't what CRT is.

No such "theories" exist in the realm of history, culture, literature, etc... that are being actively taught in schools.
While there are some differences in application of the term theory within different academic fields outside of the sciences, it still pretty much universally refers to a rigorous collection of ideas and rules that are used to explore a phenomenon. They are all over in history, literature, culture, and are all taught at the undergraduate and/or graduate level, similar to CRT. None of them would permit something like flat earth theory to be presented as an academic theory. The fact that you tried to equate the two clearly demonstrates you lack a basic understanding of what a theory represents in any academic context.
 
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Maxima1

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None of them would permit something like flat earth theory to be presented as an academic theory. The fact that you tried to equate the two clearly demonstrates you lack a basic understanding of what a theory represents in any academic context.

rofl, go check out the video I posted. He's not even on the same planet.

(Here is some background of the UK first black studies professor in the video.)


For those that continue to argue that CRT is being taugt in our schools (or mandates are being made to require its teaching), it is impossible to teach CRT at the K-12 level. Its the equivalent of believing someone saying that states are mandating the time dependent Hamiltonian be taught in schools. Even if it were taught, kids would have no idea what was going on because they don't have the foundation to understand it. You can't just randomly decide to teach graduate level coursework to a bunch of kids.

Here are 3 principles derived from CRT acccording to the Porland Community College document I linked to and that's the gist I've seen from explanations elsewhere:

1.The centrality and intersectionality of race and racism. CRT asserts that racism is a permanent component of American life.
2.The challenge to dominant ideology.CRT challenges the claims of neutrality, objectivity, colorblindness, and meritocracy in society.
3.The commitment to social justice. CRT is a framework that is committed to a social justice agenda to eliminate all forms of subordination of people.

This is being introduced in K-12 curriculum. Check out theatlantic article above.

While there are some differences in application of the term theory within different academic fields outside of the sciences, it still pretty much universally refers to a rigorous collection of ideas and rules that are used to explore a phenomenon. They are all over in history, literature, culture, and are all taught at the undergraduate and/or graduate level, similar to CRT. None of them would permit something like flat earth theory to be presented as an academic theory. The fact that you tried to equate the two clearly demonstrates you lack a basic understanding of what a theory represents in any academic context.

CRT is nowhere near comparable to something like "the Theory of Evolution".
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
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Conservatives want their children to grow up thinking that racism doesn't exist because conservatives are afraid their snowflake children might grow up in the harsh reality that objectively exists. They want each and every one of their precious snowflake children to receive participation trophies and to never have to think an upsetting thought.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Ah yes, Portland Community College, the vanguard of social justice studies in America. You gotta wonder how long he furiously googled before finding that one.

In the context of this discussion, what CRT is is less relevant than what it is not. Which is some kind of indoctrination in the schools to teach kids to hate whitey. Because that is what the Republican party is trying to say is what CRT is. Because yaknow, they're not racist and white supremacy doesn't exist, it's all just a coincidence and a misunderstanding that they've suddenly decided to mainstream that old school white supremacist propaganda.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
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Ah yes, Portland Community College, the vanguard of social justice studies in America. You gotta wonder how long he furiously googled before finding that one.

In the context of this discussion, what CRT is is less relevant than what it is not. Which is some kind of indoctrination in the schools to teach kids to hate whitey. Because that is what the Republican party is trying to say is what CRT is. Because yaknow, they're not racist and white supremacy doesn't exist, it's all just a coincidence and a misunderstanding that they've suddenly decided to mainstream that old school white supremacist propaganda.

the ability for a party whose core base is like the people below manage to convince them racism is an imaginary thing is the greatest example of psychosis in a country in many years. these people are literally sociopaths.

ap00070101626-4e5f8a1b40df73b275344fc3a1eb39e031d5186a-s800-c85.jpg
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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Ah yes, Portland Community College, the vanguard of social justice studies in America. You gotta wonder how long he furiously googled before finding that one.

What's that suppose to criticize? Just an FYI, originator is a professor at UC Riverside.


What she teaches:

EDUC 147: Education for a Diverse Society
EDUC 148: Critical Race Analysis of K-12 Schools
EDUC 275a: Pedagogies of Racial Justice
EDUC 275b: Race and K-12 Educational Equity
EDUC 278: Critical Race Theory in Education

In the context of this discussion, what CRT is is less relevant than what it is not. Which is some kind of indoctrination in the schools to teach kids to hate whitey. Because that is what the Republican party is trying to say is what CRT is. Because yaknow, they're not racist and white supremacy doesn't exist, it's all just a coincidence and a misunderstanding that they've suddenly decided to mainstream that old school white supremacist propaganda.

Resentment? Contempt? Sounds like quibbling. Amusingly, Amused used this as his go-to argument: It's the result of racism. It's anger and resentment caused by racism.

I'll tell you this, were I oppressed, the blood of my oppressors would flow until I was free, or dead. You should be very thankful blacks are, on the average, a lot more peaceful than I would be. To a black person in the US facing institutionalized, systemic racism at every level of society, whites in general are understandably seen as the oppressor. You're just too stupid to see that, or racist to admit it.



the ability for a party whose core base is like the people below manage to convince them racism is an imaginary thing is the greatest example of psychosis in a country in many years. these people are literally sociopaths.


The idea that persistent outcome disparities between racial groups necessarily reflect or result from discrimination rests on a narrow, misleading, and politically motivated portrayal of the empirical reality. In what follows, I introduce and briefly discuss a number of data points that call this narrative into question.

Disparities between groups are the norm, not the exception—even among ‘whites’.

Binary white vs. black comparisons merely obscure disparities that obtain between virtually all ethnic/ancestry groups while promoting the illusion that white-black disparities are somehow exceptional. Indeed, large disparities in socioeconomic outcomes are observed even between US-born whites of different European ancestry.


Black people do not need to walk around in fear that white cops will kill them because they are black. Yes, I meant that and will write it again. Black people do not need to walk around in fear that white cops will kill them because they are black.
“But, but … he just, he just …” NO! I “just” nothing. I say this because of the following simple fact:
Cops kill white people just as easily as they kill black people.
I know there’s a bit more we will hear.
But the disproportion … !
Yes, yes – but please see my post on Derek Chauvin on that issue, which in no way disproves anything I have written. Black people are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by cops, and exactly 2.5 times more likely to be poor, and data shows that poverty makes you more likely to encounter the cops, as even intuition confirms. This is why somewhat more black people are killed by cops than what our proportion in the population would predict.
Accounts of this issue that pretend people like me have not presented figures like this – i.e. most mainstream media discussions -- are out of court, even if their authors feel it’s their duty to pull people’s eyes away from “irreligious” ideas. Ignore the numbers and, even if you are writing about descendants of African slaves, you are simply plain wrong.
[...]
Reflect also: most people who take to the streets about cases like Daunte Wright are not thinking about the fact that black people are killed by cops 2.5 times more than their representation in the population would predict. They are protesting because all they see in the news is the black people killed, and have no way of imagining that whites are regularly killed in the same way and in much greater numbers.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
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What's that suppose to criticize? Just an FYI, originator is a professor at UC Riverside.


What she teaches:

EDUC 147: Education for a Diverse Society
EDUC 148: Critical Race Analysis of K-12 Schools
EDUC 275a: Pedagogies of Racial Justice
EDUC 275b: Race and K-12 Educational Equity
EDUC 278: Critical Race Theory in Education



Resentment? Contempt? Sounds like quibbling. Amusingly, Amused used this as his go-to argument: It's the result of racism. It's anger and resentment caused by racism.

I'll tell you this, were I oppressed, the blood of my oppressors would flow until I was free, or dead. You should be very thankful blacks are, on the average, a lot more peaceful than I would be. To a black person in the US facing institutionalized, systemic racism at every level of society, whites in general are understandably seen as the oppressor. You're just too stupid to see that, or racist to admit it.






The idea that persistent outcome disparities between racial groups necessarily reflect or result from discrimination rests on a narrow, misleading, and politically motivated portrayal of the empirical reality. In what follows, I introduce and briefly discuss a number of data points that call this narrative into question.

Disparities between groups are the norm, not the exception—even among ‘whites’.

Binary white vs. black comparisons merely obscure disparities that obtain between virtually all ethnic/ancestry groups while promoting the illusion that white-black disparities are somehow exceptional. Indeed, large disparities in socioeconomic outcomes are observed even between US-born whites of different European ancestry.


Black people do not need to walk around in fear that white cops will kill them because they are black. Yes, I meant that and will write it again. Black people do not need to walk around in fear that white cops will kill them because they are black.
“But, but … he just, he just …” NO! I “just” nothing. I say this because of the following simple fact:
Cops kill white people just as easily as they kill black people.
I know there’s a bit more we will hear.
But the disproportion … !
Yes, yes – but please see my post on Derek Chauvin on that issue, which in no way disproves anything I have written. Black people are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by cops, and exactly 2.5 times more likely to be poor, and data shows that poverty makes you more likely to encounter the cops, as even intuition confirms. This is why somewhat more black people are killed by cops than what our proportion in the population would predict.
Accounts of this issue that pretend people like me have not presented figures like this – i.e. most mainstream media discussions -- are out of court, even if their authors feel it’s their duty to pull people’s eyes away from “irreligious” ideas. Ignore the numbers and, even if you are writing about descendants of African slaves, you are simply plain wrong.
[...]
Reflect also: most people who take to the streets about cases like Daunte Wright are not thinking about the fact that black people are killed by cops 2.5 times more than their representation in the population would predict. They are protesting because all they see in the news is the black people killed, and have no way of imagining that whites are regularly killed in the same way and in much greater numbers.
So fucking what? The one thing you fucking dipshits are too fucking stupid to understand is that if one cherrypicked leftist's opinion is emblematic of all that is liberalism, then using the exact same logic, you're Richard Spencer chanting Heil Trump. So fuck off.

In the meantime, I'm still going to consider a jackass who falsely believes that race is the biggest indicator of IQ.. to be a racist. Because fucking duh, dipshit.
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,549
761
146
So fucking what? The one thing you fucking dipshits are too fucking stupid to understand is that if one cherrypicked leftist's opinion is emblematic of all that is liberalism, then using the exact same logic, you're Richard Spencer chanting Heil Trump. So fuck off.

How was that example an outlier? You guys just praised recently a statement from a teacher union using all the SJW buzzwords like empire and white supremacy. Why can't it be said to be applied via 1619 Project or 1619 Project-like education curriculum (e.g. capitalism has roots in slave economy, slavery still affects blacks negatively today, etc.) which utilizes the same myopic and unsubstantiated premises?

In the meantime, I'm still going to consider a jackass who falsely believes that race is the biggest indicator of IQ.. to be a racist. Because fucking duh, dipshit.

I said I don't know what the percentage is, but I think it's unlikely it'll come out 100% environmental. FYI, it's happening. XD


The upshot is a vicious spiral. That young, ambitious, healthy people tend to leave economically deprived areas is hardly news. But to see that written clearly in their DNA, which they take with them when they leave, while the converse is written in the DNA of those who stay behind, raises questions of nature and nurture that society is ill-equipped to answer, and possibly unwilling to confront.

Behold! The superior race!
Ed8jy_MWsAExDax



Hey, do you think smart parents are more likely to have a smart kids? You do? So you are a eugenicist? This is such a dumb logical fallacy. And... this is rich. it's people like you who want racist policies like quotas and crap.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,549
761
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I call bull shit on your entire premise. Slavery was our original sin, but it wasn’t the only sin and it’s not the only difference between us and other countries. The other countries you named also have systemic racism issues, especially where it makes the biggest difference, the education system.

So the right-leaning parties in UK and Canada are just as bad here? The left-leaning as milquetoast as establishment Democrats?

What do you think goes wrong for them in education?


So how has Canada overtaken so many other countries in education?

Andreas Schleicher, the OECD's education director, says Canada's "big uniting theme is equity".
Despite the different policies in individual provinces, there is a common commitment to an equal chance in school.
He says there is a strong sense of fairness and equal access - and this is seen in the high academic performance of migrant children.

Most “I’m not a racist but” racists try and make it about about genetics to keep the illusion of the system being a meritocracy alive so they can lie to themselves about not being racists.

Most conservatives subscribe to cultural differences and not putting in effort. That goes more with the meritocracy idea, since then they can fault black subculture and individuals for being lazy. If you asked most people if there was a white-black IQ gap, they would have no idea what you were talking about.


imrs.php


Any respectable geneticist, biologist, or sociologist will tell you race is almost entirely a social construct. There simply is no meaningful difference in genetics:

"Far too many of Jensen’s critics have not taken up the challenge to refute him in any serious way, rather they have elected for various forms of escape, the most popular of which has been to seize on an argument put forward by the distinguished Harvard geneticist Richard C. Lewontin. . . . It is easy to understand the appeal of Lewontin’s argument. . . . The range of scholars who have used some version of the above argument against Jensen is quite extraordinary . . . For some, Lewontin’s argument is so self-evident and so significant that whether or not a scholar accepts it is the measure of whether he has anything worthwhile to say about race and IQ! . . . After reading these scholars, it comes as something of a shock to realize that Lewontin’s example does not at all show the irrelevance of high h2 [heritability] estimates to finding an explanation of between-population differences. . . . the real message of Lewontin’s example is that we can ignore high h2 estimates only if there exists a highly specific and highly unusual set of circumstances."



They also ignore reams of evidence of the impact of poverty and racism on cognitive performance - the better to assign those performance deficits to the genetics of the socially constructed “race”.

Google replication crisis. These studies almost always tend to be garbage.



Just FYI, this guy blocks "racists".